[
  {
    "start": 2.62,
    "end": 25.5,
    "text": "Okay, so while you were looking for your book I just make the introduction."
  },
  {
    "start": 25.62,
    "end": 25.82,
    "text": "Hello!"
  },
  {
    "start": 27.2,
    "end": 32.04,
    "text": "And a warm welcome to new episode of The Hurra Hurrah Podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 32.68,
    "end": 37.88,
    "text": "This time as already here it's in English language because we have an international guest."
  },
  {
    "start": 37.96,
    "end": 38.56,
    "text": "this is Anab."
  },
  {
    "start": 38.68,
    "end": 39.5,
    "text": "Ja and hello Anab!"
  },
  {
    "start": 45.7,
    "end": 51.34,
    "text": "you switched to us from London and To bring everybody in."
  },
  {
    "start": 52.34,
    "end": 57.76,
    "text": "I just go quickly through the CV that is posted on your superflux website."
  },
  {
    "start": 57.94,
    "end": 61.16,
    "text": "And um, You can correct if something isn't really right."
  },
  {
    "start": 61.24,
    "end": 66.96,
    "text": "So it stated that Annab is a designer futurist filmmaker an educator."
  },
  {
    "start": 67.059,
    "end": 78.559,
    "text": "She's a co-founder and director of Super Flux And she catalyzes the studio's mission to leave a meaningful legacy for our planet and its future custodians."
  },
  {
    "start": 78.6,
    "end": 86.88,
    "text": "So it is quite poetic written, through that Annabue you grew up in India."
  },
  {
    "start": 88.539,
    "end": 102.94,
    "text": "You have an honorary doctorate as your Royal Designer of Industry awardee and studied filmmaking & interaction design Since two thousand sixteen, like ten years from now."
  },
  {
    "start": 103.039,
    "end": 105.86,
    "text": "you have a professorship in Vienna at the Angewandte."
  },
  {
    "start": 106.639,
    "end": 108.38,
    "text": "Is that all-in-all correct?"
  },
  {
    "start": 109.22,
    "end": 109.419,
    "text": "Yes!"
  },
  {
    "start": 109.5,
    "end": 110.96,
    "text": "That is correct Thank You."
  },
  {
    "start": 113.759,
    "end": 126.52,
    "text": "And we are here because I basically wanted to talk about your practice and how do you interweave it with Your educational work?"
  },
  {
    "start": 126.979,
    "end": 132.239,
    "text": "But then, like in the way of finding that date your new book was published."
  },
  {
    "start": 132.34,
    "end": 141.859,
    "text": "And so we take a chance to just talk about you and New Book That has been published at the Hachikans editing house."
  },
  {
    "start": 142.239,
    "end": 144.62,
    "text": "You released it with Nikolas Heb and Stefan Zinell."
  },
  {
    "start": 145.28,
    "end": 146.92,
    "text": "It's called Designing Questions."
  },
  {
    "start": 148.04,
    "end": 153.239,
    "text": "As this is an interview We have basically my work as a designer."
  },
  {
    "start": 154.959,
    "end": 164.019,
    "text": "I designed A few questions, but first I want to basically just take your designed questions from the book and to dive into that."
  },
  {
    "start": 166.06,
    "end": 168.739,
    "text": "First why that book Annab?"
  },
  {
    "start": 170.94,
    "end": 172.859,
    "text": "Yeah it's a good question."
  },
  {
    "start": 173.92,
    "end": 176.06,
    "text": "That is stupid question But its'a good starter question."
  },
  {
    "start": 176.459,
    "end": 188.76,
    "text": "It''s a good starting point because So as you said, I've been leading a program that we renamed in Design Investigations."
  },
  {
    "start": 188.84,
    "end": 202.9,
    "text": "It used to be called Industrial Design II inherited the programme from Fiona Arabi who was already kind of pushing the work to be more critical and more speculative."
  },
  {
    "start": 203.739,
    "end": 213.66,
    "text": "And when I joined the department there was real interest for students foregrounds, the way we think and practice a bit more."
  },
  {
    "start": 214.42,
    "end": 243.859,
    "text": "And so when we decided to call it design investigations over the last ten years It became clear that We were really actually exploring quite a lot of different topics At different scales whether its thinking about how we designed windmills or What does it mean to live in a world of food insecurity?"
  },
  {
    "start": 244.1,
    "end": 246.2,
    "text": "Or what does democracy even mean today."
  },
  {
    "start": 246.94,
    "end": 263.8,
    "text": "We were inviting our students over the last decade, to grapple with ways that role of designer will shift keeping complexity and change around us where future is heading."
  },
  {
    "start": 265.98,
    "end": 267.26,
    "text": "It became quite obvious."
  },
  {
    "start": 269.46,
    "end": 287.219,
    "text": "ultimately The kind of questions that the students were asking became even more important than the answers because there are no simple solutions to a lot things we're talking about."
  },
  {
    "start": 288.599,
    "end": 298.599,
    "text": "If you think about it, design and solution under quotes from the world of design is also part."
  },
  {
    "start": 298.719,
    "end": 310.84,
    "text": "The way to ask questions meant that we took off from the students, they're imperative."
  },
  {
    "start": 311.26,
    "end": 337.94,
    "text": "To come up with a solution and instead came up with proposals or come up With biases an assumptions and experiments admits stories of prototypes in ways too unpacked at question That might have a strange interesting sort of reference the world or question of a brief."
  },
  {
    "start": 338.08,
    "end": 345.96,
    "text": "And that's why we decided to call the book, Designing Questions."
  },
  {
    "start": 346.46,
    "end": 364.36,
    "text": "and I do want add it is my partner John Arden who came up with this title because he said in his work at Superflux is also actually designing questions, because we ask questions like what might it feel to live in this world or what might be needed?"
  },
  {
    "start": 364.719,
    "end": 367.26,
    "text": "and so that's really what you've been doing."
  },
  {
    "start": 370.599,
    "end": 392.24,
    "text": "In your book... You quote a person who said there was the difference between first education which referred as industrial design legacy that you also have in your program and the second education."
  },
  {
    "start": 393.86,
    "end": 401.42,
    "text": "That builds up on this because my first question was, yeah what does it mean to design investigations?"
  },
  {
    "start": 402.88,
    "end": 414.28,
    "text": "You cleared it out easily but I really like The concept of a first education and the second education."
  },
  {
    "start": 414.719,
    "end": 416.48,
    "text": "And can you just go a bit more deeper?"
  },
  {
    "start": 416.58,
    "end": 419.54,
    "text": "I think it's... It's, uh-it's a woman called Olivera... Shit!"
  },
  {
    "start": 419.62,
    "end": 420.5,
    "text": "I have the quote wrong."
  },
  {
    "start": 420.54,
    "end": 423.2,
    "text": "Uh her name is... Waiter."
  },
  {
    "start": 423.34,
    "end": 424.12,
    "text": "Second..."
  },
  {
    "start": 426.92,
    "end": 428.98,
    "text": "Vanessa Andreotti."
  },
  {
    "start": 429.9,
    "end": 431.42,
    "text": "Yes that's true."
  },
  {
    "start": 431.7,
    "end": 434.06,
    "text": "yes Vanessa de Oliveira Andreotti That's true."
  },
  {
    "start": 434.86,
    "end": 436.28,
    "text": "what she comes up with."
  },
  {
    "start": 436.32,
    "end": 439.46,
    "text": "Do you remind me the quote in particular that your reading right now?"
  },
  {
    "start": 439.78,
    "end": 442.86,
    "text": "Of course."
  },
  {
    "start": 447.88,
    "end": 454.48,
    "text": "I'm often asked why design investigations, Why not a more familiar name moving from established labels seems risky."
  },
  {
    "start": 454.76,
    "end": 462.36,
    "text": "parents and careers or any parents and carers worry about the career prospects of our students."
  },
  {
    "start": 462.5,
    "end": 465.4,
    "text": "yet this unusual name feels necessary."
  },
  {
    "start": 465.64,
    "end": 471.76,
    "text": "The valuable lessons of industrial design legacies, I don't know how to pronounce are not dismissed by this shift."
  },
  {
    "start": 472.24,
    "end": 482.06,
    "text": "they constitute what Vanessa d'Olivera Andreotti who participated in the panel discussions including in his book describes as a first education that gives us language concepts."
  },
  {
    "start": 485.64,
    "end": 492.9,
    "text": "Yet in the face of the challenges that lie ahead we need to commit ourselves To what she calls a second education which demands?"
  },
  {
    "start": 492.98,
    "end": 502.58,
    "text": "That will loosen our grip when these things get confused or the past itself When they become the summit off and it's gets super confusing."
  },
  {
    "start": 505.38,
    "end": 505.52,
    "text": "Yeah,"
  },
  {
    "start": 507.159,
    "end": 507.36,
    "text": "yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 508.06,
    "end": 521.78,
    "text": "So I think Actually even before had read Vanessa's book, which is Hospicing Modernity."
  },
  {
    "start": 521.9,
    "end": 523.82,
    "text": "Which came out a few years ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 525.0,
    "end": 530.32,
    "text": "The rhythm of the course Because we are taking in quite young students."
  },
  {
    "start": 530.4,
    "end": 533.64,
    "text": "This is a program that starts after school for five years."
  },
  {
    "start": 534.14,
    "end": 543.64,
    "text": "so they go from Coming often out-of-school or They've done a little bit of internship or apprenticeship Or explored the world and then come to us quite younger our students."
  },
  {
    "start": 544.06,
    "end": 545.74,
    "text": "And this day with us four five years."
  },
  {
    "start": 548.24,
    "end": 556.48,
    "text": "I was quite sort of clear because a practitioner might myself that it is important."
  },
  {
    "start": 556.64,
    "end": 558.88,
    "text": "the students get two types skills."
  },
  {
    "start": 559.8,
    "end": 568.14,
    "text": "Practical skills and conceptual skills so they can go out in world to be practitioners, whatever fields are interested in."
  },
  {
    "start": 568.64,
    "end": 573.74,
    "text": "develop practice further through skill allows them."
  },
  {
    "start": 574.42,
    "end": 592.18,
    "text": "And then the conceptual rigor that we wanted to bring with was, you have this skill of thinking about things through many different perspectives."
  },
  {
    "start": 593.14,
    "end": 598.82,
    "text": "You start having an orthogonal view in the world in a way."
  },
  {
    "start": 599.52,
    "end": 615.96,
    "text": "So you sort of unpack and that I think is what Vanessa talks about as the second education, it's that once you have language skills and vocabularies to make prototypes ,to design films or to explore materials."
  },
  {
    "start": 616.58,
    "end": 623.0,
    "text": "then you can start thinking how does this material be shaped differently?"
  },
  {
    "start": 623.46,
    "end": 628.18,
    "text": "not just an object but in the world around us, and their relationships."
  },
  {
    "start": 628.34,
    "end": 632.34,
    "text": "In a way that we explore more than human relationship."
  },
  {
    "start": 632.5,
    "end": 642.7,
    "text": "even so... That is second education where they use first education to ask deeper questions."
  },
  {
    "start": 644.24,
    "end": 650.26,
    "text": "The way it works out quite practically in department every year have two semesters."
  },
  {
    "start": 651.68,
    "end": 656.06,
    "text": "We go between conceptual semester and a practical semester."
  },
  {
    "start": 656.68,
    "end": 662.06,
    "text": "In both the semesters, students of course ask conceptual questions... ...and learn practical skills."
  },
  {
    "start": 662.34,
    "end": 670.44,
    "text": "but we focus more on material skills in one of them.. ..and deeper questioning in another."
  },
  {
    "start": 671.88,
    "end": 680.74,
    "text": "Is it a class system at the Angewandte so that they study just-in-design investigations or do they shift between departments?"
  },
  {
    "start": 682.86,
    "end": 684.48,
    "text": "No, so it's a class."
  },
  {
    "start": 684.96,
    "end": 689.8,
    "text": "It's department system and the students sign up to design investigations."
  },
  {
    "start": 689.88,
    "end": 691.22,
    "text": "So they follow our curriculum."
  },
  {
    "start": 692.06,
    "end": 695.78,
    "text": "The way works is which I think quite a lot of European universities that"
  },
  {
    "start": 697.06,
    "end": 697.34,
    "text": "then"
  },
  {
    "start": 697.54,
    "end": 699.92,
    "text": "have to go and signed-up different courses."
  },
  {
    "start": 700.92,
    "end": 712.36,
    "text": "They might learn geometry or theory of design or art history tinkering and model-making."
  },
  {
    "start": 712.78,
    "end": 717.12,
    "text": "These happen sometimes within the department offers it, but quite a lot of time."
  },
  {
    "start": 717.28,
    "end": 723.62,
    "text": "its classes that other tutors around the university offer in this item"
  },
  {
    "start": 724.88,
    "end": 726.78,
    "text": "like also theory modules and stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 727.96,
    "end": 750.12,
    "text": "okay as In this quote we had at the beginning there was The question of careers And you have very particular and specialized practice with superflags as I see from the exhibitions."
  },
  {
    "start": 750.82,
    "end": 765.78,
    "text": "And, not a lot of few studios that go in the same direction you is it your aim to create or enable these students set up studios like yours?"
  },
  {
    "start": 766.18,
    "end": 772.34,
    "text": "Or do have some sort Prove or best practice for that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 772.4,
    "end": 775.66,
    "text": "because it's not ten years off of design investigations."
  },
  {
    "start": 775.72,
    "end": 776.32,
    "text": "Can you tell?"
  },
  {
    "start": 777.3,
    "end": 779.56,
    "text": "Where do they go, what do the lead to?"
  },
  {
    "start": 779.74,
    "end": 780.7,
    "text": "where do they impact?"
  },
  {
    "start": 781.72,
    "end": 782.02,
    "text": "sure."
  },
  {
    "start": 782.54,
    "end": 806.12,
    "text": "so I think that The ambition Of the educational program is to nurture a sense of agency A sense of curiosity over and above anything else, a rigor of practice."
  },
  {
    "start": 808.0,
    "end": 810.86,
    "text": "A sense...a certain scholarship around the practice?"
  },
  {
    "start": 813.46,
    "end": 830.22,
    "text": "A sense of deeper skills And then absolutely the choice to do what they want with that armed with that sense of agency and skill out in the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 831.76,
    "end": 843.08,
    "text": "So over the last ten years, you know several of our students have continued to develop their diploma projects that they did in the university."
  },
  {
    "start": 843.78,
    "end": 857.58,
    "text": "There are a few students who had an idea That got traction while doing their diploma and ended up starting what we might call startup or product ideas."
  },
  {
    "start": 857.84,
    "end": 865.12,
    "text": "For instance, a student was working with the idea of lichen that is edible and then she ended up making a drink from it."
  },
  {
    "start": 865.2,
    "end": 866.5,
    "text": "And now she's working with stone."
  },
  {
    "start": 866.66,
    "end": 872.72,
    "text": "so in one direction another student who works aquaponics has a whole fish... I"
  },
  {
    "start": 873.96,
    "end": 874.62,
    "text": "visited them!"
  },
  {
    "start": 877.0,
    "end": 880.08,
    "text": "I saw this in Vienna maybe?"
  },
  {
    "start": 882.6,
    "end": 883.92,
    "text": "With students once."
  },
  {
    "start": 884.26,
    "end": 884.8,
    "text": "Yes, yes."
  },
  {
    "start": 884.9,
    "end": 894.42,
    "text": "So there is of course living farms that Katrina had set up a many years ago but this is Philip Lloydott who's setup I actually don't remember fully the day office company."
  },
  {
    "start": 894.54,
    "end": 896.12,
    "text": "But yes about two three years ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 896.94,
    "end": 905.2,
    "text": "and then you have some others uh for research fellowships and research and design fellowships building on that."
  },
  {
    "start": 905.78,
    "end": 912.1,
    "text": "So there's that angle, they're some who decided to do more artistic practices have won awards in going out to do a lot of work."
  },
  {
    "start": 912.7,
    "end": 915.56,
    "text": "There are some students working in studios like IDO."
  },
  {
    "start": 915.7,
    "end": 919.98,
    "text": "We were doing bike design you know really lovely school studio Vienna."
  },
  {
    "start": 920.8,
    "end": 923.02,
    "text": "Somewhere got into education Research."
  },
  {
    "start": 923.18,
    "end": 924.04,
    "text": "another has started."
  },
  {
    "start": 924.36,
    "end": 926.18,
    "text": "few of them have started a collective together."
  },
  {
    "start": 926.56,
    "end": 928.82,
    "text": "so this is really A real breath."
  },
  {
    "start": 930.4,
    "end": 943.0,
    "text": "some of them find their feet straight away, but some take longer to figure out exactly what it is that works for them and they have a journey might be more of an exploratory journey."
  },
  {
    "start": 943.18,
    "end": 947.74,
    "text": "But it doesn't really matter who lands where, it may take longer or shorter."
  },
  {
    "start": 948.62,
    "end": 958.32,
    "text": "the point us, they start to develop a particular interest."
  },
  {
    "start": 958.9,
    "end": 979.08,
    "text": "So when they get a brief, they don't have to design a product They could designed for instance performance and then you have A student who is developing a set of performances over several years And that becomes their sort of Focus area if you like."
  },
  {
    "start": 979.16,
    "end": 983.22,
    "text": "so I think it's kind of."
  },
  {
    "start": 984.46,
    "end": 986.32,
    "text": "we are very rigorous in our approach."
  },
  {
    "start": 986.98,
    "end": 991.06,
    "text": "But that rigor is in the interest of students having choice."
  },
  {
    "start": 992.62,
    "end": 1001.94,
    "text": "Yeah, and this what differs to the regular educational system where choices are not so much given as you even say it in a book."
  },
  {
    "start": 1003.12,
    "end": 1020.46,
    "text": "quite at the beginning these students were quite young So we said between eighteen and twenty three or something around about Often the student That I have or that we have here at the Bochgenstein."
  },
  {
    "start": 1021.22,
    "end": 1023.22,
    "text": "They're typically a bit older."
  },
  {
    "start": 1023.5,
    "end": 1036.839,
    "text": "So so they dive in like in their beginning of the twenties, or they even have an apprenticeship before and they come as cabinet makers or boatmakers Or whatever."
  },
  {
    "start": 1036.98,
    "end": 1053.139,
    "text": "so And they come with it with a certain approach before and even though they Have to be unschooled before the studies in a way, so I really like that fact of developing particular interest as you said."
  },
  {
    "start": 1053.86,
    "end": 1061.679,
    "text": "As core value for all these studies because we cannot offer everything in this short period."
  },
  {
    "start": 1067.159,
    "end": 1072.0,
    "text": "We do have students, I don't want to say that there are students who come with degrees already."
  },
  {
    "start": 1072.379,
    "end": 1080.24,
    "text": "Like we had students in their thirties even and you know... what a change!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1080.3,
    "end": 1080.48,
    "text": "You know?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1087.659,
    "end": 1092.76,
    "text": "We have a student who used to have very successful hairdressing practice for many, many years."
  },
  {
    "start": 1093.24,
    "end": 1096.24,
    "text": "So and then we are slightly older students in the younger society."
  },
  {
    "start": 1096.399,
    "end": 1118.8,
    "text": "I think there is a fairly mixed group but i think The students that come after school they Are shaping their interests this early days while those Who've chosen to come back To do four or five year program Have obviously Chosen because They want to re changed that journey, you know."
  },
  {
    "start": 1120.12,
    "end": 1139.46,
    "text": "That's so interesting because it speaks to the idea of potential Because when you are born and go through school And then you go through university When you're born You have So much...you might call Potential right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1140.04,
    "end": 1140.919,
    "text": "Or Possibility!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1141.439,
    "end": 1148.32,
    "text": "You could be this or This but very Soon you start narrowing narrowing and this is it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1148.379,
    "end": 1153.7,
    "text": "And then you sort of do that but That's changing so much, and that's not how it has to be."
  },
  {
    "start": 1154.26,
    "end": 1159.939,
    "text": "like You know We have made these ways being in the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1161.04,
    "end": 1169.58,
    "text": "These are rules that can't be unmade and people can choose to explore their potential In different directions"
  },
  {
    "start": 1174.26,
    "end": 1174.36,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1174.74,
    "end": 1188.76,
    "text": "And if we stick to that idea of developing a particular interest, it's the process and uh... That means you try out A lot of particular interests through this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1188.84,
    "end": 1193.2,
    "text": "You learn alot about The world and things."
  },
  {
    "start": 1193.939,
    "end": 1202.1,
    "text": "In your book the samples Of educational projects is super broad."
  },
  {
    "start": 1202.52,
    "end": 1211.76,
    "text": "so Things go from very technological projects that go beyond tinkering, also quite elaborate."
  },
  {
    "start": 1211.939,
    "end": 1234.139,
    "text": "Also using AI agents and stuff to installative works in the urban field And even going talking about your project design for abundance Even beyond urban into rural areas In Austria, I don't know the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1234.78,
    "end": 1235.04,
    "text": "state."
  },
  {
    "start": 1236.939,
    "end": 1255.379,
    "text": "Yeah To still want to ask you a question that That i'm very interested in because your professional and that And also in them in your book there's a whole chapter on The question why does design has to speculate?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1255.74,
    "end": 1267.939,
    "text": "And then the whole speculative design bars as it was raised with a speculative everything, moved."
  },
  {
    "start": 1268.439,
    "end": 1273.639,
    "text": "So we are not ten fifteen years back again."
  },
  {
    "start": 1273.78,
    "end": 1283.419,
    "text": "so now how do you think the practice and educational work around this has changed or developed into?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1283.58,
    "end": 1286.1,
    "text": "what does it develop in your case?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1286.139,
    "end": 1290.72,
    "text": "because Still there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1291.679,
    "end": 1293.52,
    "text": "Yeah, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1295.86,
    "end": 1298.679,
    "text": "So I think to unpack that two parts to it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1298.8,
    "end": 1303.2,
    "text": "One is for me as a practitioner of this sort of what you might call speculative design."
  },
  {
    "start": 1303.26,
    "end": 1303.879,
    "text": "What does it mean?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1304.54,
    "end": 1319.46,
    "text": "And i have to admit That We in the studio John and I are colleagues we never really see This As A Design Discipline In The Way You Might Think Of Graphic Design Or Product Design."
  },
  {
    "start": 1320.46,
    "end": 1322.54,
    "text": "For us, it's an approach or a philosophy."
  },
  {
    "start": 1323.52,
    "end": 1325.659,
    "text": "So its way of doing things."
  },
  {
    "start": 1325.8,
    "end": 1329.2,
    "text": "so It is the way of seeing the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1329.72,
    "end": 1341.1,
    "text": "Its a philosophy Of understanding what means to explore A bit open-ended potential around ideas To see where they land."
  },
  {
    "start": 1341.22,
    "end": 1351.98,
    "text": "What are the consequences Potential and consequences of these ideas And Things and technologies in things we put out in the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1352.04,
    "end": 1354.399,
    "text": "What is what how might be relate to them differently?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1354.56,
    "end": 1359.139,
    "text": "And what does an impact on their relationship To our lives, and so on."
  },
  {
    "start": 1360.439,
    "end": 1370.32,
    "text": "So you might think of this Practice as something that sits on top of a very multidisciplinary design practice."
  },
  {
    "start": 1370.74,
    "end": 1374.22,
    "text": "As a perspective say That's what we bring when we see."
  },
  {
    "start": 1374.34,
    "end": 1376.159,
    "text": "why should designs speculate?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1377.36,
    "end": 1386.0,
    "text": "It is because design has a responsibility and designers have a responsibility to understand what does it mean?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1386.12,
    "end": 1389.58,
    "text": "To use certain kind of material, make some product."
  },
  {
    "start": 1389.98,
    "end": 1390.6,
    "text": "What do we need?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1390.659,
    "end": 1394.36,
    "text": "the designer system that is open-ended or closed ?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1394.6,
    "end": 1399.159,
    "text": "What does this means to decide an urban infrastructure in particular context?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1399.6,
    "end": 1405.139,
    "text": "these things have lives last beyond the designers and consumption patterns."
  },
  {
    "start": 1407.0,
    "end": 1421.32,
    "text": "So when design speculates, it starts to foreground some of these systemic and tangled relationships that our designs create or become part off."
  },
  {
    "start": 1422.2,
    "end": 1428.179,
    "text": "And so when you understand this is all in relation with each other then there are unintended consequences."
  },
  {
    "start": 1428.62,
    "end": 1432.56,
    "text": "You might take a different stance on how we design."
  },
  {
    "start": 1435.679,
    "end": 1444.04,
    "text": "That's the thinking that we are bringing, or I am bringing to this book."
  },
  {
    "start": 1444.58,
    "end": 1447.58,
    "text": "But the book is a summary in a way of the thinking of The"
  },
  {
    "start": 1447.659,
    "end": 1450.46,
    "text": "Department.\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 1450.52,
    "end": 1457.74,
    "text": "Really like the fact you said that this kind of speculating as part of a multi-disciplinary working approach?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1458.04,
    "end": 1477.0,
    "text": "So it's... Like tool and your toolbox which take out certain parts gain kind of perspective or gain a deeper insight into things, our broader understanding"
  },
  {
    "start": 1477.139,
    "end": 1477.32,
    "text": "off."
  },
  {
    "start": 1478.159,
    "end": 1489.939,
    "text": "Of connectivities in between certain dots that are around all that you go beyond the presence into certain futuristic future foresight moments right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1490.04,
    "end": 1491.439,
    "text": "Yeah did I get it right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1491.8,
    "end": 1495.96,
    "text": "so and to follow that Sorry,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1500.96,
    "end": 1503.82,
    "text": "it sits before you reach out to your toolbox."
  },
  {
    "start": 1505.139,
    "end": 1507.46,
    "text": "So that's what I was trying to get at."
  },
  {
    "start": 1507.54,
    "end": 1517.56,
    "text": "is perhaps... That reaching-out action of opening the tool box and reaching out?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1518.58,
    "end": 1521.419,
    "text": "It is embedded in that cognitive actions."
  },
  {
    "start": 1521.54,
    "end": 1532.2,
    "text": "so when you reach into a tool start making something exists within The relationship between the mind and body in a way."
  },
  {
    "start": 1532.3,
    "end": 1544.419,
    "text": "So it sounds a bit abstract, but it sits before or outside of the tools you're using so that brings a lens to what you use for your tools."
  },
  {
    "start": 1544.46,
    "end": 1549.879,
    "text": "I think..."
  },
  {
    "start": 1553.72,
    "end": 1558.159,
    "text": "No because we are designing questions!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1562.3,
    "end": 1565.32,
    "text": "It's as you said, it's abstract."
  },
  {
    "start": 1565.399,
    "end": 1574.179,
    "text": "It's quite a model that is in your head or not quite tangible yet."
  },
  {
    "start": 1574.72,
    "end": 1575.58,
    "text": "and"
  },
  {
    "start": 1575.62,
    "end": 1583.879,
    "text": "how do you accompany the students from air quote regular design expectations to design investigations?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1584.08,
    "end": 1597.06,
    "text": "So its question on they're how like How Do You Soften Them Or To Sharpen Them to unlock this potential they have."
  },
  {
    "start": 1597.72,
    "end": 1602.7,
    "text": "And then I ask as an interested fellow design educator..."
  },
  {
    "start": 1606.54,
    "end": 1607.659,
    "text": "Sorry, missed that last bit!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1608.78,
    "end": 1612.34,
    "text": "No problem and i asked this as a fellow design Educator."
  },
  {
    "start": 1612.439,
    "end": 1631.159,
    "text": "so im really Interested in the methodology of how To get these young students That maybe Have been unlearned A little unschooled already but have to get deeper in that beyond-tool practice."
  },
  {
    "start": 1631.639,
    "end": 1632.46,
    "text": "Let's call it like that"
  },
  {
    "start": 1633.56,
    "end": 1637.159,
    "text": "Yeah, and I think that is the job And i think thats the work."
  },
  {
    "start": 1637.639,
    "end": 1643.899,
    "text": "That was really what I find very exciting."
  },
  {
    "start": 1644.379,
    "end": 1646.54,
    "text": "Why am still doing this?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1647.34,
    "end": 1648.26,
    "text": "Is because of that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1648.34,
    "end": 1655.679,
    "text": "Because...I really enjoy that process Of working with students."
  },
  {
    "start": 1657.2,
    "end": 1664.639,
    "text": "be able to sit with that uncertainty, okay so I'm doing this and i have done all these research."
  },
  {
    "start": 1664.72,
    "end": 1672.74,
    "text": "but there is how does it become a concept or... ...I've been on the streets and want build this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1672.939,
    "end": 1679.439,
    "text": "But resist building those things straight away because That's a form of what do they contain?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1680.48,
    "end": 1698.419,
    "text": "And when you take away that container or when they have to come up with a container themselves, then the container of designer sort-of an aid for someone which is very specific and practical."
  },
  {
    "start": 1698.46,
    "end": 1709.2,
    "text": "And it's equally important but that particular layer isn't there... Then what should I hold onto?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1709.34,
    "end": 1711.82,
    "text": "It often the main question students grapple."
  },
  {
    "start": 1712.82,
    "end": 1718.919,
    "text": "Now, I think we are fortunate because students who apply have done a lot of research."
  },
  {
    "start": 1719.22,
    "end": 1724.899,
    "text": "So they already know what they're getting into and want to do it Because they've chosen to do It."
  },
  {
    "start": 1725.139,
    "end": 1727.879,
    "text": "And that is you know...it was written on the tin."
  },
  {
    "start": 1728.379,
    "end": 1733.899,
    "text": "That's where You get..you don't secretly say We do graphic design but actually Oh!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1735.26,
    "end": 1737.98,
    "text": "There's nothing ambiguous about The course."
  },
  {
    "start": 1738.639,
    "end": 1750.179,
    "text": "so it attracts people Who are interested in this more or less young or old and then within that it is many different pedagogic tools."
  },
  {
    "start": 1751.06,
    "end": 1755.84,
    "text": "We use, you know students work in groups some small groups."
  },
  {
    "start": 1756.5,
    "end": 1758.139,
    "text": "there's a vertical studio system."
  },
  {
    "start": 1758.3,
    "end": 1762.659,
    "text": "so the groups are paired from first year second-year third-year fourth-year."
  },
  {
    "start": 1762.72,
    "end": 1763.159,
    "text": "together."
  },
  {
    "start": 1763.72,
    "end": 1768.36,
    "text": "There are enasmus students at students from other departments who come and join."
  },
  {
    "start": 1769.56,
    "end": 1772.899,
    "text": "There are a lot of crits and feedback sessions, conversations."
  },
  {
    "start": 1773.02,
    "end": 1777.6,
    "text": "We have workshops we have lectures some field trips all that thing!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1778.24,
    "end": 1793.879,
    "text": "That is towards the interest... ...of the topic for this semester And every tutorial and second session with students every week Is about furthering their exploration."
  },
  {
    "start": 1795.5,
    "end": 1801.179,
    "text": "And it is not easy because sometimes, you take six weeks to do research and then it's like oh my god."
  },
  {
    "start": 1801.56,
    "end": 1802.659,
    "text": "But now its big-term review."
  },
  {
    "start": 1802.78,
    "end": 1802.96,
    "text": "ah!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1803.679,
    "end": 1807.419,
    "text": "There are a lot of practical things that have come out in order make stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 1807.919,
    "end": 1812.86,
    "text": "so how can we deal with the reality of semester?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1813.8,
    "end": 1823.179,
    "text": "The requirements versus this very abstract or undetermined process?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1824.639,
    "end": 1832.46,
    "text": "But that dance of traversing, you know the labyrinth."
  },
  {
    "start": 1833.8,
    "end": 1843.58,
    "text": "It's traversing that labyrinthe where there is one way but your fighting it out versus what is a timid goal uses that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1845.5,
    "end": 1850.34,
    "text": "The fixed... What was the other word for the Labyrinth base?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1850.679,
    "end": 1854.28,
    "text": "the base, which you know it already is predetermined in a way."
  },
  {
    "start": 1855.139,
    "end": 1873.28,
    "text": "So our process is very much about inviting students to not rush through solutions too quickly sometimes coming into experiments quickly rather than doing off desk research."
  },
  {
    "start": 1874.159,
    "end": 1881.04,
    "text": "my students often make fun of me because I keep using the word thinking through making so they're always laughing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1881.34,
    "end": 1882.48,
    "text": "Why do we laugh?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1883.86,
    "end": 1888.159,
    "text": "They are always like, you know cheeky words will put it up on a slide."
  },
  {
    "start": 1888.2,
    "end": 1894.82,
    "text": "now i did some thinking though and basically...I love that!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1894.96,
    "end": 1902.62,
    "text": "Because its really....you know..they try and everyone's prototyping has got different ideas."
  },
  {
    "start": 1904.399,
    "end": 1911.419,
    "text": "It really fills me with joy, it gives me a lot of sense hope and optimism for the younger generation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1913.1,
    "end": 1921.26,
    "text": "And talking about this thinking through making in your book there's a whole chapter on The Making aspect."
  },
  {
    "start": 1921.96,
    "end": 1929.52,
    "text": "that makes me quite happy because I follow that approach."
  },
  {
    "start": 1929.74,
    "end": 1948.879,
    "text": "you come from...I'm very Euro-centric person in a way, so I come from Donald A. Sheen with the reflective practitioner background but you came up with it totally different approach on that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1949.36,
    "end": 1953.399,
    "text": "So basically what they really liked is okay."
  },
  {
    "start": 1953.46,
    "end": 1963.419,
    "text": "there's a different view of making backgrounds and can...I know i designed."
  },
  {
    "start": 1966.78,
    "end": 1970.0,
    "text": "How do we experience the importance of making?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1974.76,
    "end": 1977.6,
    "text": "Yeah, that is so difficult to articulate isn't it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1978.52,
    "end": 1982.06,
    "text": "and so powerful when it works."
  },
  {
    "start": 1982.82,
    "end": 1992.86,
    "text": "So where you start... You've got this idea in abstraction or something will work."
  },
  {
    "start": 1994.0,
    "end": 1999.22,
    "text": "and then when you get the paper, pen or scissors that it doesn't hold."
  },
  {
    "start": 2000.3,
    "end": 2002.439,
    "text": "And what do we do next?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2003.48,
    "end": 2005.46,
    "text": "You try something else... Then you try!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2007.8,
    "end": 2012.72,
    "text": "It's basically power of experimentation, iteration & prototype."
  },
  {
    "start": 2013.76,
    "end": 2025.58,
    "text": "Whatever language you use your mind form is a relationship with this material in that moment."
  },
  {
    "start": 2026.6,
    "end": 2032.0,
    "text": "And it's giving you feedback and your giving a feed back, working relationship with each other."
  },
  {
    "start": 2032.439,
    "end": 2033.939,
    "text": "whatever the material is right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2034.0,
    "end": 2037.96,
    "text": "It could be worded or paper, straws, bunch of different things."
  },
  {
    "start": 2038.399,
    "end": 2043.5,
    "text": "story telling start writing , writing sound."
  },
  {
    "start": 2043.899,
    "end": 2070.5,
    "text": "so I think thinking through making deepening relationships we have sort of any form of material that then allows us to create a more embodied, embodied expression."
  },
  {
    "start": 2073.2,
    "end": 2074.58,
    "text": "Of the proposal or question."
  },
  {
    "start": 2074.72,
    "end": 2087.32,
    "text": "so it sounds abstract and I'm only saying in this way because at end of day is really just try different things out keep trying yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 2090.92,
    "end": 2097.36,
    "text": "And I think what you said is that making his relation, making in a way."
  },
  {
    "start": 2098.0,
    "end": 2099.18,
    "text": "Yeah super interesting."
  },
  {
    "start": 2099.88,
    "end": 2102.38,
    "text": "and as when?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2102.48,
    "end": 2107.14,
    "text": "why do we designers to set the making quite central?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2107.32,
    "end": 2113.78,
    "text": "Is because this is The Way We Start Understanding World?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2113.9,
    "end": 2126.42,
    "text": "Because If We Do Not Cross Check Our Expectations simulate weight visual if we can this in a bit, but is it"
  },
  {
    "start": 2126.8,
    "end": 2127.18,
    "text": "true?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2128.06,
    "end": 2128.16,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 2128.6,
    "end": 2130.52,
    "text": "So can we experience that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2130.7,
    "end": 2146.98,
    "text": "and If you say on the bottom line what re-designers do was create sensual experiences for others In an industrial design like way or maybe it's on a graphical visual."
  },
  {
    "start": 2149.58,
    "end": 2152.84,
    "text": "You don't see this dear listeners, but I'm just doing it with my hands."
  },
  {
    "start": 2152.98,
    "end": 2153.58,
    "text": "It's awesome."
  },
  {
    "start": 2154.46,
    "end": 2162.2,
    "text": "Just like in between the fingertips or something that starts to be graspable and real."
  },
  {
    "start": 2162.42,
    "end": 2169.44,
    "text": "because what a lot of stuff if we talk about potentials are not there yet?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2170.08,
    "end": 2185.08,
    "text": "And a lot is design related If you could say so, if you follow the division of mind and body but it's all in the person whatever"
  },
  {
    "start": 2185.74,
    "end": 2185.9,
    "text": "thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 2186.54,
    "end": 2191.94,
    "text": "So this is quite cool to have them making as world-making and sense-making."
  },
  {
    "start": 2192.14,
    "end": 2211.3,
    "text": "And then... ...if you train these five years of educational setting that students go into It's a good base to move on into different design related fields."
  },
  {
    "start": 2212.3,
    "end": 2212.42,
    "text": "And"
  },
  {
    "start": 2214.8,
    "end": 2219.32,
    "text": "in your book, you describe a project that is called meditative making."
  },
  {
    "start": 2219.82,
    "end": 2221.3,
    "text": "or I don't know if it get it right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2222.26,
    "end": 2225.8,
    "text": "As i saw this...I was super jealous because I thought oh well!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2225.88,
    "end": 2240.46,
    "text": "That's a project I would like to do with the students aswell Because The Making itself It's essential, but the meditative aspect of it is super underrated."
  },
  {
    "start": 2241.4,
    "end": 2246.36,
    "text": "Can you tell a bit more about this project and your approach in the results?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2247.56,
    "end": 2249.2,
    "text": "Yeah sure yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 2249.24,
    "end": 2255.74,
    "text": "that was full credit to my colleague Stefan Zinnel who came up with an idea for calling it Meditative Making."
  },
  {
    "start": 2255.8,
    "end": 2258.44,
    "text": "we wanted something focusing on making."
  },
  {
    "start": 2260.12,
    "end": 2273.22,
    "text": "We all just loved it Because like you said, in the beginning we have a semester where do more conceptual work and then a semester when practical work."
  },
  {
    "start": 2273.3,
    "end": 2277.98,
    "text": "That one semester was after students had done their after-abundance."
  },
  {
    "start": 2278.04,
    "end": 2281.7,
    "text": "it was big large scale working."
  },
  {
    "start": 2281.78,
    "end": 2283.66,
    "text": "there were exhaustion coming out of that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2283.74,
    "end": 2289.08,
    "text": "We wanted to be nurturing semesters so people can explore their prototype."
  },
  {
    "start": 2290.34,
    "end": 2294.08,
    "text": "the focus became making windmills or parts of windmils."
  },
  {
    "start": 2294.8,
    "end": 2313.06,
    "text": "So every student had eventually chose a certain material that they wanted to design this windmill in and that's what it was, whether there were working with wood or whether they are working with metal for whatever materials."
  },
  {
    "start": 2313.68,
    "end": 2324.92,
    "text": "I suppose The meditative bit you can understand doing the same thing repeatedly in a way that is calming."
  },
  {
    "start": 2325.62,
    "end": 2334.88,
    "text": "Obviously there wasn't like hours and weeks, maybe hours but not like weeks or weeks to do the same things But it was finessing that blade of the windmill."
  },
  {
    "start": 2336.52,
    "end": 2343.48,
    "text": "The outcome was about seven eight little windmills And together they were able get a bit power."
  },
  {
    "start": 2344.56,
    "end": 2351.8,
    "text": "So It felt very sort of very much like a collective experience, you know some work."
  },
  {
    "start": 2351.9,
    "end": 2353.86,
    "text": "Some did work and some worked little bit."
  },
  {
    "start": 2354.34,
    "end": 2356.1,
    "text": "You know it didn't matter."
  },
  {
    "start": 2356.24,
    "end": 2357.4,
    "text": "so much as that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2357.76,
    "end": 2364.0,
    "text": "you understand few things about how difficult It is to think."
  },
  {
    "start": 2364.32,
    "end": 2367.68,
    "text": "we think of energy in abstraction But when you have to do it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2368.18,
    "end": 2371.24,
    "text": "You realize how much I have to get a little bit of energy."
  },
  {
    "start": 2371.5,
    "end": 2381.94,
    "text": "So there was also the idea of quantifying something abstract And then working with materials Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 2381.98,
    "end": 2428.2,
    "text": "I saw that the, and um...I find a bit of contrast between that wording meditative making and then quite technological complex results came out off the course as these windmills or energy harvesters for wind because i thought on repetitive craft of like Zen-like, maybe it's carving or some sort of weird knitting traditional work that in the result is not a super innovative design."
  },
  {
    "start": 2428.52,
    "end": 2437.1,
    "text": "But in the process celebrates embodiment and calming."
  },
  {
    "start": 2437.18,
    "end": 2449.02,
    "text": "because In the book, Designing Questions you also state that we have this overlying parallel crisis in different worlds."
  },
  {
    "start": 2449.08,
    "end": 2452.8,
    "text": "That come to young people so near through social media."
  },
  {
    "start": 2452.96,
    "end": 2465.2,
    "text": "So... To find navigation orientation and these confusing times These meditative practices might be necessary too."
  },
  {
    "start": 2466.08,
    "end": 2466.78,
    "text": "Don't go crazy"
  },
  {
    "start": 2467.74,
    "end": 2471.56,
    "text": "Yeah Yeah, which I completely point taken."
  },
  {
    "start": 2471.62,
    "end": 2479.08,
    "text": "And yes definitely it probably became more ambitious and complex than we would have liked to have in the beginning."
  },
  {
    "start": 2481.78,
    "end": 2492.46,
    "text": "Admittedly over three-three and a half months It was quite slow and lot of process of making and cutting and designing patterns and stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 2492.6,
    "end": 2496.4,
    "text": "so But it makes me think that maybe we should do that again."
  },
  {
    "start": 2498.22,
    "end": 2498.64,
    "text": "yeah"
  },
  {
    "start": 2499.8,
    "end": 2504.22,
    "text": "we should definitely do another one of those properly meditative semesters."
  },
  {
    "start": 2508.16,
    "end": 2514.2,
    "text": "Another question is about designing an abandoned, designed for abundance?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2514.32,
    "end": 2515.02,
    "text": "I don't get it right."
  },
  {
    "start": 2515.06,
    "end": 2520.76,
    "text": "Designing after-abundance you mean?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2520.8,
    "end": 2522.14,
    "text": "Designed After Abundance excuse me!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2522.44,
    "end": 2537.32,
    "text": "Right which was centered in the rural areas of Austria and There is a whole publication at Birkhauser to it, we put in the show notes for everybody read and also design question book."
  },
  {
    "start": 2538.96,
    "end": 2543.06,
    "text": "It comes here and there that project pop-in."
  },
  {
    "start": 2546.0,
    "end": 2558.14,
    "text": "And some sort of exotic excursion from urban design field towards rural and decentralized areas of Austria?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2560.84,
    "end": 2571.08,
    "text": "Did a few of the young designers later went to the rural areas, to stay there and set up practice."
  },
  {
    "start": 2572.26,
    "end": 2574.86,
    "text": "So did it had an impact?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2576.1,
    "end": 2579.32,
    "text": "To bring young creatives into the land side?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2586.46,
    "end": 2599.72,
    "text": "I would say... The impact was that those became the thematic concerns for many of students throughout and continue to be now after graduating."
  },
  {
    "start": 2600.5,
    "end": 2626.78,
    "text": "So, for instance one student Sophie Falkes who was on a team doing glaciers which is an after abundance went onto do project called Close Encounters and is continuing to do research fellowship, looking at landscapes in mountains."
  },
  {
    "start": 2626.88,
    "end": 2627.64,
    "text": "a lot I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 2628.52,
    "end": 2629.7,
    "text": "In fact it's Switzerland."
  },
  {
    "start": 2630.52,
    "end": 2642.92,
    "text": "so Felix who was also part of the glaciers went on you know, how do I even describe that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2643.0,
    "end": 2652.2,
    "text": "but like a sort of an essay film looking at the complex related entanglements between technology terraforming and politics."
  },
  {
    "start": 2652.7,
    "end": 2661.2,
    "text": "So i suppose some students already also live in rural parts of Australia or have come from rural Australia."
  },
  {
    "start": 2661.9,
    "end": 2666.88,
    "text": "so we have students who've come for lots of parts of Austria already."
  },
  {
    "start": 2667.42,
    "end": 2668.52,
    "text": "they go back as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 2669.36,
    "end": 2670.14,
    "text": "there was never this."
  },
  {
    "start": 2670.48,
    "end": 2682.46,
    "text": "The nature, the urban rural divide wasn't actually that strong even from the beginning because a lot of students who were in first and second year working on their project had come from different parts of the country."
  },
  {
    "start": 2683.04,
    "end": 2688.46,
    "text": "And even our inner-round breakers evolved where we spent some time there."
  },
  {
    "start": 2688.56,
    "end": 2701.68,
    "text": "so I think it was more around the concerns or questions that projects raised had a deeper impact, I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 2706.86,
    "end": 2712.44,
    "text": "The book Questioning Design somehow marks the review of last ten years."
  },
  {
    "start": 2712.56,
    "end": 2729.26,
    "text": "at their design investigations while working on it with your colleagues did you also could find not just a retrospect but a prospect so that you learned something from looking into vaults."
  },
  {
    "start": 2729.68,
    "end": 2729.78,
    "text": "to"
  },
  {
    "start": 2730.92,
    "end": 2733.36,
    "text": "What kind of perspective does it offer you?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2733.74,
    "end": 2735.14,
    "text": "if for that reflection?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2736.14,
    "end": 2751.42,
    "text": "Yeah, so I think that For us actually the book is as much a vision setting As much as an archive because if you think about all the chapters They are positing what we take."
  },
  {
    "start": 2752.28,
    "end": 2757.1,
    "text": "Design education should be four years to come or certain kind of design Education."
  },
  {
    "start": 2757.14,
    "end": 2761.86,
    "text": "I would like to add not but there's room and space for this kind of approach."
  },
  {
    "start": 2764.26,
    "end": 2773.54,
    "text": "And we have anchored it with evidence of things that have happened so far, So I think how do we design when everything is entangled?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2774.16,
    "end": 2776.74,
    "text": "Is what we are saying How Do We Do It When We Go"
  },
  {
    "start": 2776.9,
    "end": 2777.06,
    "text": "Out?,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2777.52,
    "end": 2779.56,
    "text": "How DoWe Design Through"
  },
  {
    "start": 2779.6,
    "end": 2780.14,
    "text": "Making?,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2780.72,
    "end": 2782.46,
    "text": "Is The Question Like How Dowe Move Forward?."
  },
  {
    "start": 2783.04,
    "end": 2787.08,
    "text": "Each Of That Question Becomes A Question As a Setting Of A Vision Cool."
  },
  {
    "start": 2794.04,
    "end": 2795.44,
    "text": "Hey, we said we'd make it a short?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2796.0,
    "end": 2796.26,
    "text": "We had a"
  },
  {
    "start": 2796.36,
    "end": 2796.64,
    "text": "short!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2797.38,
    "end": 2798.94,
    "text": "Yeah, yeah absolutely."
  },
  {
    "start": 2799.86,
    "end": 2800.9,
    "text": "That was"
  },
  {
    "start": 2801.84,
    "end": 2801.96,
    "text": "nice."
  },
  {
    "start": 2802.04,
    "end": 2805.02,
    "text": "Thank you that wasn't...that was good."
  },
  {
    "start": 2805.1,
    "end": 2806.62,
    "text": "I made a lot of notes and learned alot."
  },
  {
    "start": 2807.58,
    "end": 2831.98,
    "text": "like developing particular interest as something that resonates because often maybe not me but i demand so much from our work to make them carrier-ready to make them supercritical, give them self-reflective powers and stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 2832.34,
    "end": 2844.08,
    "text": "And sometimes maybe this overshoots our competence or time that we have with the students."
  },
  {
    "start": 2844.14,
    "end": 2849.68,
    "text": "so it's in the core they develop a particular interest."
  },
  {
    "start": 2853.66,
    "end": 2862.72,
    "text": "To do so and to make take it further even after the university is something that That gives me some sort of relaxation in a way too."
  },
  {
    "start": 2862.82,
    "end": 2864.86,
    "text": "Okay, okay It's ok to do So."
  },
  {
    "start": 2865.26,
    "end": 2869.82,
    "text": "and also that focusing on making Is?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2872.26,
    "end": 2873.44,
    "text": "Its now written in the book."
  },
  {
    "start": 2873.6,
    "end": 2875.08,
    "text": "you know its not there."
  },
  {
    "start": 2875.36,
    "end": 2881.84,
    "text": "It's not just Some sort of idea that floats in between our fellow design educators."
  },
  {
    "start": 2881.92,
    "end": 2886.98,
    "text": "but no it's written in quite an with quite an extent in the book."
  },
  {
    "start": 2894.92,
    "end": 2903.02,
    "text": "I'm happy with that and I hope all listeners had fun as well, pardon my stuttery English from time to time."
  },
  {
    "start": 2905.48,
    "end": 2906.74,
    "text": "Anna, take care!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2906.92,
    "end": 2908.96,
    "text": "Thanks for being our guest."
  },
  {
    "start": 2910.08,
    "end": 2913.96,
    "text": "To everybody listening... In The Show Notes we have a link"
  },
  {
    "start": 2914.86,
    "end": 2915.08,
    "text": "and"
  },
  {
    "start": 2915.34,
    "end": 2918.82,
    "text": "get it from your favorite bookshop."
  },
  {
    "start": 2918.92,
    "end": 2923.44,
    "text": "support these infrastructures."
  },
  {
    "start": 2923.68,
    "end": 2929.44,
    "text": "And we hear us in the next episode, so bye-bye!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2930.18,
    "end": 2947.16,
    "text": "Thank you"
  },
  {
    "start": 2948.64,
    "end": 2950.6,
    "text": "very much!"
  }
]