[
  {
    "start": 3.0,
    "text": "There are two main levers where you can reduce your\r\nenvironmental footprint. One is energy consumption; of course, energy\r\nefficiency is the solution here. The second aspect is material\r\nintensity, and circular economy is the answer there. So basically, the\r\nmaterials that you put into an appliance are even more important than\r\njust energy efficiency.",
    "end": 28.0
  },
  {
    "start": 28.0,
    "text": "The whole industry in the past was looking at increasing energy\r\nefficiency. You see that on the label; it's very important for\r\nconsumers to make a purchase decision. But it's just one aspect of the\r\nenvironmental footprint. As soon as you look into it in a holistic way,\r\nLCA (Life Cycle Assessment) is the method to do so.",
    "end": 57.0
  },
  {
    "start": 57.0,
    "text": "My name is Patrick Hypscher and this is Circularity FM, the\r\npodcast about understanding, building, and managing circular business\r\nmodels. Welcome back to our fourth and final episode in the series on\r\nrecycled plastics for premium brands. In the last episode, we learned\r\nfrom Bosch how they organized technical feasibility and desirability\r\nfrom the customer.",
    "end": 89.0
  },
  {
    "start": 89.0,
    "text": "Today we want to talk about how to scale that to your regular\r\nproduct portfolio. But before we start, I have an offer for you: if you\r\nwant to get the actual one-pager about this conversation, please sign up\r\nfor the Circularity.fm newsletter at www.circularity.fm. Our first guest\r\nstudied electrical engineering and holds an executive MBA.",
    "end": 114.0
  },
  {
    "start": 114.0,
    "text": "He has held leadership positions in product management, sales,\r\nand marketing. Eleven years ago, he joined V-ZUG. For more than five\r\nyears already, he has served as Head of Sustainability. Welcome, Marcel\r\nNiederberger.\r\nThank you very much. Happy to be here. Thank you, Patrick.",
    "end": 136.0
  },
  {
    "start": 136.0,
    "text": "My second guest has degrees in materials science and chemical\r\nengineering. He earned a PhD in mechanical and process engineering from\r\nETH Zurich. He worked as a research and development engineer, project\r\nmanager, and circular engineer. Three years ago, he joined V-ZUG as a\r\nsustainability expert in engineering. Welcome, Marc Vetterli.\r\nThank you, Patrick. Glad to be here as well.",
    "end": 158.0
  },
  {
    "start": 158.0,
    "text": "Marc, we want to talk about home appliances. Before we do that\r\nfrom a professional point of view, what's the most important feature of\r\na washing machine for you personally?\r\nThe most important feature, if you look into digitalization, is that I\r\nreally love the push message at the end of a cycle. It tells me on the\r\nupper floor that I need to go down to the cellar to remove the clothes.",
    "end": 184.0
  },
  {
    "start": 184.0,
    "text": "That wasn't there in the past, so I had to walk down several\r\ntimes. I'm very happy about digitalization in this regard.\r\nEvery IoT product manager now feels so happy about your answer. Marc,\r\nwhat about you?\r\nBeing able to put 8 kilos of laundry in and get it clean after one to\r\ntwo hours. It's pretty convenient.",
    "end": 206.0
  },
  {
    "start": 206.0,
    "text": "Couldn't agree more, with a family of two kids. Let's switch\r\nto the commercial and design aspects and the circular perspective of\r\nwashing machines. Our focus here is on recycled plastics and durable\r\nproducts. What was the starting point, Marcel, when looking at the\r\nrecycled material share of a typical V-ZUG machine?\r\nFrankly speaking, in the past, there was not a big focus on recycled\r\nmaterials, especially plastics.",
    "end": 243.0
  },
  {
    "start": 243.0,
    "text": "You find some recycled content in other materials like metals,\r\nbut it was never really a strategic approach to have recycled material\r\nincorporated into our products. If you opened a product three years ago,\r\nyou wouldn't find a lot of recycled materials in it. The starting point\r\nwas very initial.",
    "end": 264.0
  },
  {
    "start": 264.0,
    "text": "Okay. And what was the reason to change that?\r\nIt all started when we looked into life cycle analysis. Two or three\r\nyears ago, we decided to measure the ecological footprint of all the\r\nappliances we have in the market. We did structured LCAs for all of our\r\nproducts, and all of a sudden you see two main levers to reduce your\r\nenvironmental footprint. One is energy consumption---energy efficiency\r\nis the solution there.",
    "end": 292.0
  },
  {
    "start": 292.0,
    "text": "The second aspect is material intensity, and circular economy is\r\nthe answer. Basically, the materials that you put into an appliance are\r\neven more important than just energy efficiency. The whole industry was\r\nlooking at increasing energy efficiency.",
    "end": 313.0
  },
  {
    "start": 313.0,
    "text": "You see that on the label; it's important for consumers, but\r\nit's just one aspect of the environmental footprint. As soon as you look\r\nat it holistically through LCA, you see where your levers are. Then you\r\ncome to materials and recycled content---and not just recycled content\r\nat the beginning;",
    "end": 335.0
  },
  {
    "start": 335.0,
    "text": "it's looking at the whole life cycle. The kind of material you\r\nplace into it and what happens at the end of life all matter very much.\r\nWhat was the motivation or vision behind looking into that topic?\r\nOverall, it's about the targets we gave ourselves.",
    "end": 355.0
  },
  {
    "start": 355.0,
    "text": "For example, we have an ambitious CO2 emission target on Scope\r\n3, and \"purchased goods and services\" is an important category. If you\r\nwant to reduce these emissions over time, you need to touch the\r\nmaterials that go into an appliance. In 2021, we signed our long-term\r\ntargets for Scope 3 and since then we have used a structured approach to\r\nreduce our overall environmental footprint year by year.",
    "end": 388.0
  },
  {
    "start": 388.0,
    "text": "Do you have a more holistic vision for circularity beyond Scope\r\n3 reduction?\r\nYes, circularity doesn't happen overnight. That's why we defined a\r\nvision we call \"Closing the Circle 2040.\" 2040 indicates that this\r\ntakes time because we need to touch many things in the system.",
    "end": 427.0
  },
  {
    "start": 427.0,
    "text": "It's a holistic approach that looks at the whole value chain. In\r\nthe past, we were happy with just a good recycling process, but we\r\nbelieve circular economy is much more than just recycling. We have\r\nstarted to take back our appliances at the end of life. At the\r\nbeginning, we look to see if they are able to be refurbished for a\r\nsecond life.",
    "end": 454.0
  },
  {
    "start": 454.0,
    "text": "If that's not possible, we dismantle them down to every single\r\nitem and start to close the circle as narrowly as possible. We define\r\n\"Reuse\"---taking a part out and using it again. That would be the\r\nideal case, though it's not always possible.",
    "end": 477.0
  },
  {
    "start": 477.0,
    "text": "The second layer would be \"Recircle,\" as we call it. That\r\nmeans keeping the resources in a closed loop, ideally with our\r\nsuppliers. You talk with your suppliers about what happens at the end of\r\nlife.",
    "end": 494.0
  },
  {
    "start": 494.0,
    "text": "Recycling remains an important aspect, and \"Repurposing\" is\r\nanother approach where we give a new meaning to a part. For example, a\r\nwashing machine drum can end up as a fantastic design piece, like a\r\ntable.",
    "end": 519.0
  },
  {
    "start": 519.0,
    "text": "That's a fun aspect, but it's also one of the R-strategies we\r\ndrive.\r\nThat sounds super impressive. I feel like you touch a lot of the\r\nR-strategies in the hierarchy. Let's zoom in on the material loop and\r\nfocus on recycled plastics.",
    "end": 546.0
  },
  {
    "start": 546.0,
    "text": "Marc, maybe let's start with the end: what has been the result\r\nof your efforts over the last few years, and how will this be visible in\r\nthe products you bring to market?\r\nWe've been working closely with HolyPoly, the startup, to develop an\r\nABS compound made out of 50 to 70% PCR (Post-Consumer Recycled) ABS.",
    "end": 574.0
  },
  {
    "start": 574.0,
    "text": "With the help of HolyPoly, we built a material that is actually\r\na white regranulate that fulfills our aesthetic specifications. That was\r\na high target---having a pretty white recycled material. This is exactly\r\nwhat the team at HolyPoly was able to achieve: a quality that is\r\nunmatched on the market right now.",
    "end": 609.0
  },
  {
    "start": 609.0,
    "text": "We had the chance to collaborate and make sure that something\r\nthat seemed impossible became possible. Today, visible front\r\npanels---those extremely white plastic parts---usually get shredded and\r\nburnt or landfilled. Now we have a way of reusing them in the highest\r\nquality possible.",
    "end": 637.0
  },
  {
    "start": 637.0,
    "text": "That is what Marcel meant by \"Recircling\"---closing the loop\r\non the highest quality possible with our partners. That was thanks to\r\nthe collaboration with HolyPoly and is an extremely good example of how\r\ncircular economy leads to a lower environmental impact.\r\nIs this already live?",
    "end": 671.0
  },
  {
    "start": 671.0,
    "text": "We already have a few thousand dryers with these front panels on\r\nthe market; they've been sold this year. As of February next year, we\r\nwill incorporate it into the current core of our multi-household washing\r\nmachines. We are looking at four more parts where we could do the swap\r\nbetween the current ABS version and the new recyclate we've been\r\ndeveloping with HolyPoly.",
    "end": 697.0
  },
  {
    "start": 697.0,
    "text": "There are many parts in a washing machine. Why did you choose\r\nthat one?\r\nReally good question. Usually, when people talk about PCR plastics, they\r\nsay you can do it, but it will be black or gray with lots of impurities.\r\nBy starting with the most complex one---getting a pure white---we set a\r\nchallenge.",
    "end": 738.0
  },
  {
    "start": 738.0,
    "text": "By showing that a white recycled plastic is feasible for visible\r\nparts for a Swiss household appliance manufacturer, it shows that the\r\nrest should be feasible as well.\r\nJust to be clear, the main challenge is the purity of the white and the\r\nvisibility?",
    "end": 763.0
  },
  {
    "start": 763.0,
    "text": "Exactly. ABS itself is a thermoplastic polymer and is pretty\r\neasy to melt and shape again. But being able to get material from\r\nappliances discarded at collection points (Wertstoffhöfe) throughout\r\nGermany, Poland, or the Czech Republic is another issue. You have to\r\nseparate the ABS from PP, from black ABS, and from metallic parts.",
    "end": 795.0
  },
  {
    "start": 795.0,
    "text": "Being able to have only one single type of material and color is\r\nwhere the challenge starts. Developing a process that enables a\r\nperfectly white, non-yellowish PCR material---which HolyPoly\r\nachieved---is making the \"impossible\" possible.",
    "end": 828.0
  },
  {
    "start": 828.0,
    "text": "For companies listening who want to start, what did your process\r\nlook like?\r\nWe were approached by HolyPoly. They had their PCR and had done some\r\npre-trials. They showed us the values: the Lab color values, thermal,\r\nmechanical, rheological, and chemical properties. We compared that to\r\nour current materials, like ASA or ABS.",
    "end": 858.0
  },
  {
    "start": 858.0,
    "text": "We decided that what we wanted to develop needed to match the\r\naesthetic performance for visible parts, as well as the processability\r\nand UV stability of the ASA we currently use. Through deep lab work and\r\nDOE (Design of Experiments), HolyPoly optimized the composition of the\r\ncompounds.",
    "end": 891.0
  },
  {
    "start": 891.0,
    "text": "They optimized the mix because we have the PCR stream, two types\r\nof virgin ABS to help with processing and mechanical properties, as well\r\nas the quantity of masterbatch to balance costs and results.",
    "end": 918.0
  },
  {
    "start": 918.0,
    "text": "Where is the input material coming from---end-of-life appliances\r\nacross Europe or just your own products?\r\nFor the project, it started in Germany. The team at HolyPoly went to\r\ndifferent \"Wertstoffhöfe\" (waste collection centers)",
    "end": 960.0
  },
  {
    "start": 960.0,
    "text": "and discussed with the first handlers of WEEE (Waste Electrical\r\nand Electronic Equipment) to get the first batch. To lower costs and\r\nmatch the virgin price, they expanded to Poland and the Czech Republic\r\nbecause they have a lot of plastic manufacturing and recycling.",
    "end": 995.0
  },
  {
    "start": 995.0,
    "text": "Ultimately, as Marcel said, the idea is to bring our own streams\r\nof white ABS material from our dismantling facility back to HolyPoly so\r\nit can be incorporated into the compounding.\r\nSo you ensure a closed loop for your own materials and add material\r\nthrough an open loop to match volume requirements?",
    "end": 1028.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1028.0,
    "text": "Exactly. We are ramping up and building a dismantling line, but\r\nwe are talking about a few thousand machines compared to the tons of\r\nmaterial we need for production. We need a system to bridge the gap.",
    "end": 1056.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1056.0,
    "text": "A question from an outsider: Why do we have to ensure it's\r\npurely white? Why don't manufacturers accept certain imperfections?\r\nThat's a brilliant question that we want to raise internally as well.",
    "end": 1085.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1085.0,
    "text": "Within the sustainability team, we have one voice, but you also\r\nhave consumer preferences. The company brave enough to change that will\r\nopen up new opportunities for recycled materials. For now, we remain\r\nwith white.",
    "end": 1112.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1112.0,
    "text": "I would like to work for the company that starts to change that\r\nbecause then you reduce the footprint and cost even further. We invite\r\nall other \"white goods\" companies to do that because we all need to\r\nmake progress as a society. We need to challenge the status quo.",
    "end": 1135.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1135.0,
    "text": "If I may add---we've been discussing this for years. Showing\r\nthat the \"impossible\" was possible makes it easier to eventually\r\nremove requirements. By talking to each stakeholder and customer, we can\r\ngently show what is feasible.",
    "end": 1203.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1203.0,
    "text": "Lowering specifications is actually welcome because it lowers\r\nthe price and improves sustainability---we would use less virgin\r\nmaterial and masterbatch. On the point of sale, if someone sees a yellow\r\nmachine next to a bright white one, they might think the yellow one is\r\nlower quality. We need to change the conversation about what quality\r\nmeans when combined with sustainability.",
    "end": 1263.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1263.0,
    "text": "Based on what you said, Marc, if you relaxed those requirements,\r\nyou could achieve higher degrees of recycled content?\r\nExactly. We could go up to 90-95% PCR with just a bit of masterbatch.\r\nBut if we want to close material loops over many life cycles, I advocate\r\nfor 70 to 80% PCR.",
    "end": 1301.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1301.0,
    "text": "Adding some new virgin material keeps the properties constant.\r\nOtherwise, after a few cycles, you have a significant decrease in\r\nmaterial properties. By adding new materials regularly, you can keep\r\nyour material stock much longer.",
    "end": 1327.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1327.0,
    "text": "That's a valid perspective. If fibers degrade after several\r\ncycles, you'd need virgin material anyway.\r\nExactly. To smooth down the decay and keep functionality high, adding\r\nsome new material is a good way to keep the value high. Also, to put\r\n100% PCR in all appliances, we would have needed to accumulate 1,000\r\ntons of material already, which we are still building up.",
    "end": 1386.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1386.0,
    "text": "Let's look at costs. What factors make this commercially viable?\r\nAt the start, the virgin material had low costs, and the goal was to get\r\nthe regranulate price as close as possible.",
    "end": 1427.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1427.0,
    "text": "After the investigation, we arrived at a price that was about 50\r\ncents per kilo higher than virgin material. However, due to taxes and\r\ntariffs, the price of virgin material increased, and now we have a delta\r\nof only about 15 cents per kilo.",
    "end": 1472.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1472.0,
    "text": "This is good information because sourcing in Europe means you\r\naren't impacted by those tariffs. It helps to close material loops\r\nregionally. At the same time, we haven't yet contributed our own stream\r\nto HolyPoly's formulation.",
    "end": 1506.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1506.0,
    "text": "Lowering the cost of our own dismantling and regrind preparation\r\nwill have a positive impact on cost, especially since our own stream is\r\neven whiter than the PCR they have been gathering.",
    "end": 1536.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1536.0,
    "text": "We might be able to reduce the masterbatch, reducing the price\r\nwhile increasing the PCR portion. We want a resilient, regional supply\r\nchain. Of course, the more you produce, the more efficient the\r\nprocessing becomes. We've been talking to other companies to increase\r\nthe volume of material processed.",
    "end": 1609.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1609.0,
    "text": "Many people since the information at the K-Fair (K-Messe) a few\r\nweeks ago have been contacting HolyPoly and that might also come in\r\nhandy in order to increase the volume of material processed and\r\nproduced.\r\nOne aspect of price is cost; the other is what you can achieve on the\r\nmarket. Do you communicate this recycled content share, or does it go in\r\nsilently?",
    "end": 1638.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1638.0,
    "text": "No. We think the best way is to do good and talk about it. We\r\nare trying to proactively show that we care. We want to make new\r\nappliances out of old appliances, and we don't want to just make an\r\n\"Eco-line.\"",
    "end": 1667.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1667.0,
    "text": "We want all of our appliances to have a lower carbon footprint;\r\notherwise, it doesn't make sense. Having something fancy that no one\r\nbuys would be greenwashing. We want to make it the new standard.",
    "end": 1692.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1692.0,
    "text": "We have a few parts labeled \"100% recycled,\" but for the white\r\npanels, we won't label them specifically because sustainability should\r\nbe clean and straightforward. In the future, we want to change the\r\nstorytelling from just energy efficiency to material innovation.",
    "end": 1752.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1752.0,
    "text": "We involve marketing in how to tell that story, but we always\r\nwant to deliver first and talk about it afterward. This is a bit the\r\napproach that we have.",
    "end": 1772.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1772.0,
    "text": "How did the learnings from this specific project influence other\r\naspects of circularity?\r\nWe want to approach this holistically. That's why we introduced the\r\n\"10 Principles of Circular Design.\" We need to make sure the products\r\nwe design today are ready for the circular economy.",
    "end": 1838.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1838.0,
    "text": "This changes aspects of design. You have to argue why you are\r\nusing a specific material and how it can be used after its end of life.",
    "end": 1867.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1867.0,
    "text": "If you dismantle a washing machine, you have 80 different parts.\r\nYou have to ask this question for every part. Metals are already\r\n\"done,\" plastics are next, but electronics (PCBs) are still a huge\r\nchallenge.",
    "end": 1900.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1900.0,
    "text": "Does this influence product design specifically?\r\nPatrick, let me give you an example of \"Reuse.\" One principle is to\r\nlook at the old platform before starting a new one. A washing machine\r\nhas counterbalances that last 100 years.",
    "end": 1938.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1938.0,
    "text": "If we develop the next platform, we make sure the counterbalance\r\ndesign doesn't change. This way, when we get old machines back in 15\r\nyears, we can take those weights and reuse them directly in the new\r\nappliance.",
    "end": 1959.0
  },
  {
    "start": 1959.0,
    "text": "If you don't design that in, engineers will design a new shape\r\nfor the same functionality, and you lose that stream. It's a strategic\r\ndecision to become your own material stream. In Europe, we don't have\r\nmany raw materials in the ground, but we have them in the products\r\naround us.",
    "end": 2006.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2006.0,
    "text": "Every new project needs investment. How do you get internal\r\nfunding?\r\nA simple answer: We are lucky. Back in 2018, V-ZUG gave itself a CO2\r\npenalty.",
    "end": 2040.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2040.0,
    "text": "For all direct emissions (Scope 1 and 2) that V-ZUG still has,\r\nwe \"punish\" ourselves. We put money aside every year to fund projects\r\nthat are ecologically wise but economically challenging.",
    "end": 2070.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2070.0,
    "text": "Usually, a CEO might say a project has no business case, but\r\nbecause we use a \"Triple Bottom Line\" approach (People, Planet,\r\nProfit), the CO2 fund enables early-stage projects. Of course, it\r\neventually needs to be profitable.",
    "end": 2116.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2116.0,
    "text": "Marc has done a project for the past two years called \"Circular\r\nMaterials.\" Maybe Marc can elaborate on that.",
    "end": 2135.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2135.0,
    "text": "After finishing the LCAs in 2023, we saw a broad material\r\nportfolio, especially in plastics. The idea was to minimize the number\r\nof different materials used while keeping functionality and costs in\r\ncontrol.",
    "end": 2192.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2192.0,
    "text": "We used the CO2 fund to screen every plastic part and\r\ninvestigate how properties change between the virgin state and after 15\r\nyears of use. We looked at 12 plastics.",
    "end": 2223.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2223.0,
    "text": "At V-ZUG, we have decades of experience with metals, and we know\r\nthat lower variation in material makes handling complexity easier. For\r\nplastics, we worked with the FHNW (Fachhochschule Nordwestschweiz)\r\nwith Professor Marcus Gehring and the OST (Ostschweizer\r\nFachhochschule) in Rapperswil to investigate mechanical and thermal\r\nproperties.",
    "end": 2267.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2267.0,
    "text": "We developed a simulation database to understand the decrease in\r\nmaterial properties. The results were interesting: for polypropylenes,\r\nthere are very few differences even after 15 years. For the polyamides,\r\nit's a different story. But for polypropylenes, using 70 to 80% PCR is\r\na \"no-brainer.\"",
    "end": 2337.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2337.0,
    "text": "So it's funding for fundamental research and applied projects\r\nthat aren't profitable yet but pay into your vision. Exactly. It\r\nensures we understand the technical value of the materials inside our\r\nappliances.",
    "end": 2395.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2395.0,
    "text": "If you can show that there isn't much loss in properties, you\r\ncan save a lot of material. This funding mechanism sounds like a\r\ncircular competitive advantage. Does it pay off? We always discuss that\r\nup front.",
    "end": 2431.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2431.0,
    "text": "For example, we made a project with Outokumpu for circular\r\n\"green steel\" with 10 times less CO2 intensity. We love being early\r\nadopters. It costs more at the beginning, but you need first customers\r\nto scale it up.",
    "end": 2454.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2454.0,
    "text": "We aim for transparency so that by year two or three, the price\r\ncomes down to a competitive dimension. We also decarbonized our truck\r\nfleet; the first trucks were three times more expensive than diesel, but\r\nfour years later, we are almost at the same level.",
    "end": 2497.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2497.0,
    "text": "It gives us a competitive advantage because we start earlier,\r\nbut it's always based on the belief that it's the right investment for\r\nthe future.",
    "end": 2519.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2519.0,
    "text": "Wonderful. In doing so, you pave the way and show things are\r\npossible. Thanks, Marc and Marcel. You're welcome. Thank you very much\r\nfor having us. Thank you, Patrick.",
    "end": 2546.0
  },
  {
    "start": 2546.0,
    "text": "This marked the last episode in our series on recycled plastics\r\nfor premium brands. Thanks to HolyPoly for sponsoring this series. You\r\ncan find the actionable one-pagers at www.circularity.fm. Let's drive a\r\nprofitable circular economy. Don't forget: the most abundant renewable\r\nresource is your imagination. My name is Patrick Hypscher and this is\r\nCircularity FM.",
    "end": 2577.136
  }
]