[ { "start": 0.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: The textile feedstock, let's not call this waste now, it's feedstock, if it's going to be transported,\nto Nairobi, it means that the EPR scheme in Netherlands needs to accompany that bill or that container with a certain amount of euros to make sure that organizations like ACT are able to put in place infrastructure on how to treat that textile when it gets to end of life", "end": 29.0 }, { "start": 29.0, "text": "Jingle: My name is Patrick Hypscher. And this is Circularity.fm, the podcast about understanding, building and managing circular business models.", "end": 54.0 }, { "start": 54.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Welcome back to Circularity.fm and our series on Circular Entrepreneurship in Kenya. In this episode, we have not one, but two guests driving the future of textiles in Africa. First, we hear from Alex Musembi, Co-founder of Africa Collect Textiles (ACT), a pioneering company building a formal system to collect and give new life to post-consumer textile waste in Kenya and Nigeria. We are also joined by Sarah Njau from Green Forest Solutions, an environmental compliance company working to establish effective Extended Producer Responsibility schemes for textiles in East Africa. Together, they talk about the process of collecting and creating new products from textile waste, the realities of a market flooded with unregulated second-hand imports, and why Extended Producer Responsibility is essential for building a viable circular textile economy. But before we start, I have an offer for you: if you want to get the actionable one-pager about this talk, sign up for the Circularity.fm newsletter. You can find it at www.circularity.fm.", "end": 133.0 }, { "start": 133.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Thanks for hosting me here. And it's really incredible to see all the operations. Let's start with ACT Alex. What is ACT doing and why did you start it in the first book?", "end": 148.0 }, { "start": 148.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: My name is Alex Musembi. one of the co-founder of Africa Collect Textiles and our work here in Kenya and also in Lagos, Nigeria, is to collect post-consumer textiles, basically for reuse and recycling. And the question of how we are doing that, we are providing the public with convenient drop-off points where people can be able to dispose the used items and especially we are talking about the textiles and the footwear.\nAnd then how again we collect the items. We do a lot of door to door pickup where people schedule and then our district teams goes around to make sure these items are collected from their homes. Then also we have a collection centers at one of the biggest market here in Kenya. It's called the Kamba market where we are fishing and collecting all kinds of specific materials. Yeah. Be it cotton, be it\nin terms of power, code drive, polyester mix blend because sometimes you want to experiment with different clients for specific production. And then also we are key service providers for private security groups here in Kenya. For example, we collect used uniform for SDS security company, KK security company.\nother organizations like Conservation ⁓ Wildlife, like Shellic Wildlife Trust, etc. So we all these, once we collect the items, they're brought here in the facility. And then we have our second business model whereby we do sorting. So from sorting, we sort according in two ways. For example, the wearables are put aside and then wearables are put aside. With the wearables, then they have to redistributed back.\nto the market, especially to our women resellers in the rural part of Kenya. These, I'm talking about Muranga, I'm talking about Moya, Meru, among many other counties where we are having our wholesalers who are doing that. For an unwearable stuff then, we further sort it again. Now, with Fikama, we get cotton material, then for a client, then we put it aside. And then for other stuff,\nlike let's say jeans or khakis or corduroy, then we put aside. And then that's where we have the application of upcycling because then we are not going in at a bigger scale to really process so much volumes. So at a small scale then we develop different, we have developed different line of product for ourself and also for our client designing the product and us producing the items. So that's the element of upcycling.\nSo through all these processes, then it explains our journey from collecting up to multi-finance sales.", "end": 322.0 }, { "start": 322.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: And when we come back to collecting, do you pay ⁓ money to people who drop off clothes at your collection point?", "end": 331.0 }, { "start": 331.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: Yeah, it's much easier when we incentivize the institution as opposed to the individuals because then with the individuals it can be quite a challenge. But for the institutions we are working with, we make sure we put aside 10 Kenya shilling per kilogram for every kg we collect. So how they are going to use the money, they have also their different program.\nI understand, for example, institutions of higher learnings, they put this money aside and they can add it as a buffer in adding or topping up to make sure they can add as a means of paying fees to vulnerable students. Other partners who are not interested with the 10K and ShillingPak.ED, then we make sure it is distributed through our selected programs. For example, this case, we are having children somewhere, we making sure.\nthey're getting this money. I suppose for them to get the clothes, we make sure because then the needs of the children, have the needs of clothing is one of them. You have the needs of school fees, medical, operational, like admin. So there are quite many. So that's why we prefer to give them ⁓ money as opposed to giving them the clothing itself.", "end": 409.0 }, { "start": 409.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: And one big topic when we talk about textile in Kenya and Africa is also, let's say, the secondhand textile coming from Europe. Is this also a stream you type into?", "end": 419.0 }, { "start": 419.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: Yeah, we're having a collection center at the Kumbha market where we are also collecting volumes of specific materials. Then with our partners, we can be able to recycle or recycle.", "end": 434.0 }, { "start": 434.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Okay, and ⁓ so this is about what is egg doing right now. Why did you start it together with the co-founders?", "end": 443.0 }, { "start": 443.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: For me personally, I would say it was more of an experience thing because then I worked with this company in the Netherlands. They had a local program here in Kenya. And then I came to understand the effect of second hand clothing in the Kenyan market because then that company where I was working with, it was a textile collecting company in the Netherlands. Therefore they used to collect\nall kinds of second hand clothing in the Netherlands. They were also big and I think they're also still big because lastly, so they are collecting more now than 25 million kilograms of post-consumer textile annually. So meaning their collection is quite big. So through that, then we got traction, rather embedded into the issue of textile and how it's affecting the global south.\nThis is the reason why we set up the ACT to be able to make sure we can be able to solve the problem.", "end": 507.0 }, { "start": 507.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Okay, wonderful. Sarah, let's talk a bit about the new forest solution. What's the new forest solution?", "end": 513.0 }, { "start": 513.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: Our Green Forest Solutions, our gmbH is actually a German company with its HQ in Bayern. We are an environmental compliance company where we work with organizations like Borguse, Adidas, Nike, H&M Zara, and other organizations and also governments.\nand in terms of policy when it comes to environmental matters. And here specifically speaking about extended producer responsibility. However, we are just a fraction of a bigger company group of company called Denbo Forest Solutions, which has Black Forest Solutions, which are specialized in trans-boundary movement of waste and other functionalities of waste management all the way to building infrastructure.", "end": 568.0 }, { "start": 568.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Sarah,\nyou tell us bit more about in what way are you collaborating with ACT?", "end": 574.0 }, { "start": 574.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: So one of our key products in East Africa and Kenya specifically is to do a textile icky tsuke. And ACT is one of the leading collectors and they have systems when it comes to taking care of post-consumer textile waste. So currently we work together closely just to understand the whole ecosystem from what he has explained from\ncollection, what are the challenges that actually his ideas are currently are casing, and also to understand the pain points when it comes to costing. For us, that is very important because you're going to use that to know how much it is you're going to save that will be paid by the producers. So that our currents are working the nation ship, which has been there for a year.\nI've learned a lot. There's a crash course on blends. I was not very good in chemistry. Now I understand blends. Still, it's a crash course, it's also a very interesting ⁓ aspect. And also just to understand that even these second-hand clothes to second-hand clothes, another process whereby if this pair of jumpsuits that I'm wearing can no longer fit me, it's still in good condition.\nAnd then it is also benefit someone when I deposit, I drop it off at in one of the ACT drop off points. And that means we are providing through them, through that process, we are able to provide affordable clothing and decent life to the community. Yeah.", "end": 681.0 }, { "start": 681.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Alex, can you maybe elaborate a bit why Extender Producer Responsibility Scheme is important for your business?", "end": 689.0 }, { "start": 689.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: Extended producer responsibility is very important because Africa or the global south lacks the infrastructure. And that's the operation itself is very expensive to set up the collection system. Whether we are talking about setting up the mechanical recycling, chemical recycling, setting up awareness itself. Overall, this is why it's very crucial.\nthe infrastructure components is the reason why the EPR is very key and which needs to be implemented.", "end": 722.0 }, { "start": 722.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: when we say EPR, are we talking about like a national system, an international system? And ⁓ maybe to start with, at Kenya, what's the status of EPR and textiles in Kenya?", "end": 735.0 }, { "start": 735.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: In my opinion, it should be both national and international. So there are conversations about the alternate EPR scheme for textile and other products that have not that continuity or circularity in themselves through the secondhand process. I'll start with the national one is because we also have our own producers in the country. Currently we have a regulation that is\nunder injunction because of our court case. implementation of implementation and enforcement of EPR currently in the country is in hold until we wait to hear what happens on the 25th of September. I don't know if I need this podcast to the obvious. But textile is one of the products that's produced is obliged in the country for EP. When it comes to international is because\nTo promote circularity, second-hand clothing system will not die. One is because our quality comes in place, our affordability comes in place. Currently Kenya is the real market when it comes to both buying our second-hand clothes and new clothes. It depends with how economically well-off you are. So, but as.\nAlex mentioned about infrastructure. There's a lot of secondhand clits that comes into the global South here, Kenya specifically, and we need a solution for that. And organizations, for instance, the EPR schemes, in Netherlands, their work will be at what point they collect The textile feedstock, let's not call this waste now, it's feedstock, then if it's going to be transported,\nto Nairobi, it means that the EPR scheme in Netherlands needs to accompany that bill or that container with a certain amount of euros to make sure that organizations like ACT are able to put in place infrastructure on how to treat that textile when it gets to end of life\nSo the ultimate EPR\nhas to come in this. It's going to face its own challenges before we get it right because of traceability, monitoring and evaluation, loopholes when it comes to importation, which are everywhere. So who declares what they are bringing in or not. And also what defines is what is the definition of textile waste, for instance. Is it defined at drop-off point?\nor after set. So that will also be very crucial when we are looking at the alternate EPR.", "end": 907.0 }, { "start": 907.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: And what you just explained right now is just already implemented in some of the regulations. that for example, in the Netherlands, if some of the ⁓ textiles that will be sent to Kenya, that this already is like the regulation already allows ⁓ pay fees for that, or is it something we need to add to then also European regulation?", "end": 931.0 }, { "start": 931.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: So that is something you're currently dispersing with the EPR schemes in Netherlands to see actually a pilot to see how best that could work. So currently the conversations are at high level, just discussing the best way out to set out the best monitoring and evaluation and traceability processes. So that is a current conversation, but ultimately with the conversations that are happening, it's going to find its way in the regulations.\nbut not now, but it's work in progress. ⁓", "end": 966.0 }, { "start": 966.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Okay. So let me try to summarize if I understand correctly, especially in the case of ACT, you basically have two material income streams. One is the domestic stream with the collection points by people and companies. And the other one is then throughout the market where secondhand tax dollars from Europe come into place. then especially for that, ⁓ the EPR connection to other countries is important.\n⁓ when we come back to Kenya, he said, you have some collection points. Can you elaborate a bit more how the market looks like? Is this a common thing in Kenya to have, ⁓ drop off points for textiles?", "end": 1013.0 }, { "start": 1013.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: It's not a common thing in Kenya because the business we're operating now, we can say we're operating in a new emerging economy. Like no one has ever done this before. Therefore, for other ways like plastic, paper, people understand it very, very well. That's why you have these bins outside there where people, and especially in a very controlled area like in malls.\nor even an estate. You see like a bin for plastic and people just put plastic there. But then for textile, few people quite understand why we even want to collect second hand clothing again, which has been used and reused again by other people. So that means it's not even a second hand, it's like hand, fifth hand. So it's a common culture now, we are trying now to introduce into the system, into the market.\nbecause we find it to be very important because once it's structured, people get it right.", "end": 1079.0 }, { "start": 1079.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: And I can't imagine even, let's say, with organizations, pioneering organizations like ACT, there is already a secondhand textile market. the canyons just, if they have clothes they don't want to use anymore and that they try to sell that secondhand on the markets. This is happening.", "end": 1096.0 }, { "start": 1096.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: In a different scale, culture-wise, we have all clothing in our homes in our wardrobe. we, even in thousands or even decades, we are used to giving our clothing to our brothers, or even to our neighbors, or even to the homes or people who are in need. So the issue of circulation of textile has been there even before.\nBut what we're trying to say and why ACT is existing is to give that element of the structure, if you get what I mean, because not everyone would like also to give out their clothing to the other person, especially in a culture that plays a different role. For example, there's a research that we did before we set up the organization. One of the things that came out was people were very uncomfortable, for example, to give their textile to their neighbor.\nbecause there was this feeling of voodoo and witchcraft. And even the issue of feeling whereby when you give someone like second hand, previously people were not understanding the very well, what do want to give me a second hand item? Are you trying to underpin me? Or are you trying to underlook me? That's why you are giving me second hand. So people then tend to withhold more of their textile as opposed to the Europeans. You know what I mean?\nSo the issue of underlooking, issue of voodoo and witchcraft, these are elements where people like, they are very careful in giving out their materials. People say that if there was a structure or if there was a system and they can donate their used items anonymously, then they're willing to do that. And that's why we thought, wow, if that's the case, then we should start these drop-off point things. Yeah.", "end": 1204.0 }, { "start": 1204.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: And the aspect of a textile that kind of reached its final end of life where you need to talk about recycling. ⁓ I mean, right now in Kenya, you don't have the option to send it to Africa, so to say. Where does it go?", "end": 1223.0 }, { "start": 1223.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: To answer your question, that goes into waste. Normally it goes into our collection bins or if they are sorted in the market because they are quite a different market in Kenya, then they are thrown away or they go to the landfill. But again, the solution as much as we're talking about the EPR then the world or even the key stakeholders when it comes to other brands, we all need to think about redesigning.\nBecause if we produce and redesign a garment or clothing that can be recycled, that will be the case. But if we just produce items that will be worn and then will not be used anymore, that will be the effect. And this is the current system, what is happening. So in as much as we are talking about the EPR, let's not also not forget about the designing again. So designing is very important because then it determines the recyclability of a different component of material.", "end": 1282.0 }, { "start": 1282.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: And when we talk about designing in the context of textiles or what are the crucial elements,", "end": 1288.0 }, { "start": 1288.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: Yeah,\nthe most important thing when you have like a mixed blend, for example, ⁓ in our clothing you have a totally mixed blend. How do we even separate that? Yeah, it's difficult. But I can imagine if you're having a mono kind of a blend in a material, let's say it's cotton, you can mix cotton with other virgin cotton to get a brand new garment. So to recycle it becomes easier the other way around.", "end": 1317.0 }, { "start": 1317.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: ⁓ I also learned that ACT is producing items that you're actually selling. and one of your confounders, Elmer, I mentioned, ⁓ it's also about selling back to Europe. ⁓ so how does that look like?", "end": 1334.0 }, { "start": 1334.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: Yeah, as I said, we are doing upcycling and it's the responsibility of everyone. It's not about the low cost. It's the responsibility to make sure they promote business like this and they buy from us. Because the more we are able to generate more revenue and income, the more we can get money to continue building the collection and processing infrastructure. That's why it's very important.", "end": 1361.0 }, { "start": 1361.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: and what kind of products are you producing?", "end": 1364.0 }, { "start": 1364.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: ⁓\nwe produce a different line of product. For example, we home deco stuff and we're talking about the rugs, we're talking about the kitchenware, like the oven meats. And we have an other client who comes in to place orders because they want specific things, not necessarily what we have in line, but they really want to have their own designs.\nSo these are local partners, these are international partners who come together to place an order with us. It can be shopping bags for a supermarket. It can be still the same like home deco stuff, pillows, etc.", "end": 1408.0 }, { "start": 1408.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: You have access to textiles and you want to give it a second life ⁓ either by directly selling it second hand or by ⁓ creating new products. I learned that there are of course also other textile producers in Kenya. Do they reach out and say, hey, you are interested in sourcing recycled garments from you or getting access to", "end": 1435.0 }, { "start": 1435.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: To answer your question first, because all we doing is a bit contextualized and there's no mean it's cheap also. So when it comes to raw material, it's necessarily cheap. In fact, we are even more pricey compared to a completely Chinese. For example, I know we have tailors here.\nWe have our own designers who produce clothing. But the clothing that is produced in Kenya is very expensive as compared to clothing that's produced in China or Turkey or Oya. For example, if you go to Isle, you will get clothing at a very affordable price. Then if somewhere like a tailor makes you like a kitenge or like your own outfit.\nSo, is that also dynamic? And then that also will come with the issue of the business case, for example. Then they deal with mass production. And maybe this is the reason why there's a lot of affordability. There's also input costs like electricity. So, production of the electricity in Kenya, maybe it's quite pricey as compared to electricity in Europe or in Asia like China. So, there's a lot of dynamic why like.\nIn terms of pricing, things will never be the same. And that's why these elements of the EPR system of scheme will come to really help and solve most of the issues and most of the problems.", "end": 1530.0 }, { "start": 1530.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Coming back to the EPR, can you explain to us what is part of the pilot collaboration for the questions you're trying to answer?", "end": 1540.0 }, { "start": 1540.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: So our key questions here are what kind of material, so the quality, because that affects alhumations, ⁓ the recyclability aspect, the volumes, the actual upside-down recycle. Then also to understand the costs per stage. What is the cost of connection? What is the cost of ⁓ sorting? What is the cost of storage? What is the-\ncost of treatment and eventually what are the profits that they make out of that. And then from that, we are able to get the actual EPI fee that will be set to the producers. So that is what we've been currently working on. And also to understand the consumerism behavior ⁓ in the country. So that is basically it, but also a lot of cash costs.\nare one of the things I have learned that we have so many blends. They have challenges with fast fashion. What are we going to do with fast fashion when it gets to die? The quality of the strips will be very good. If they are going to go, for instance, for if someone decides to set up a chemical recycling facility for textiles, what are you going to do with very poor quality polyester?\nSo that is the kind of questions that we are currently encountering with each other just to understand the whole ecosystem.", "end": 1631.0 }, { "start": 1631.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: And the learnings you're getting there together, inform then the government or the government institution in setting up the specific definitions.", "end": 1639.0 }, { "start": 1639.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: Yes,\nso that is the main purpose. So for instance, the EPR fees how much is it going to cost and then now we can discuss with NEMA, which is the National Environmental and Environmental Authority of Kenya, ⁓ to set just a minimum EPR fee. Then that will be, but also on our way we have formed our own ETSJ protects. So.\nThat is our own way of ascertaining to advise the governments on the best ways to work. And just to collaborate in a class, for instance, here in Klingitaland who have worked with me this journey or since last year, just to understand what are the right use scenarios we are going to face because different ecosystems, similar challenges but very different. So for them, they do all the way up to sorting corrisons.\nthen for us here we have to do all the way to infrastructure. So the EPR sets in Europe will be very different to the EPR sets that are set here. For instance, a blend here that cannot be used here, but can be used in Uganda, then what happens to it? The other thing is, thing on EPR is to also advise the brands themselves of what he mentioned about the quality of garments that is produced.\nOur data lifting is on this dyeing, our super instance on the colors of dye because that affects the mechanical and chemical recycling of texture because very poor dyes tend to contaminate the water very quickly. You're trying to conserve the environment so there's a lot of new ones changing water at the other time. And to inform that EPR we also inform on I think it's SDG number 13 on 13.\non responsible consumption and production. So that is the whole aspect to doing EPR in Ketsa.", "end": 1759.0 }, { "start": 1759.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Okay. So you're a book you already mentioned, ⁓ fast fashion, ⁓ circular textile in Kenya where do you see it? The impact of that.", "end": 1769.0 }, { "start": 1769.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: The issue of when you do overproduction, then you trigger what we call overconsumption. Because every day, then you want to bring something that is trendy. And with the young people and even millennials and older people, everyone wants to look good. So just the way she said, you see clothing very nicely in a money queen.\nAfter a few months, two or three months, you want to the same clothes that I really like, bought. So at the first instance, it's excellent, but after some months, it's not excellent. So that's where quality comes in, designing comes in. And this has to be go hand in hand, because if we're just producing things cheaply, so that people can wear.\nthen we are creating a waste problem. So design also really matters here. And actually, the brands need to think about that.", "end": 1834.0 }, { "start": 1834.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: And what about the demand ⁓ issue? Do you see a reduced demand for second-hand clothes in Kenya already because of AtoR?", "end": 1847.0 }, { "start": 1847.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: The problem, while the challenge you are facing in terms of waste in form of textiles that is being imported, I would say there is a mismatch between what we want and what's being brought here. For example, if you go to the combine market, I've seen Chinese bells. No one is interested to buy Chinese bells.\nbecause the clothing are a bit quite small, while Kenyans, they're to be a bit fattier than them or bigger than them. ⁓ Americans, they quite like gigantic or giant, ⁓ and then Kenyans are like medium. So if you also import American clothing here, for example, the Doc Kaspers DTC or Lebron James kind of trousers,\nthen no one is going to buy that. And also people are finding it difficult to trim so they can feed. Because as soon as you're starting trimming the clothing, it will never be in a perfect shape that you want. ⁓ So all these contribute towards the textile waste. So I'm not saying them selling mitumba or secondhand clothing to the global south is bad.\nbecause the best way they can do is reusing a very good model for them. And for us, we need to contextualize it. But what we are saying is the problem when there's a mismatch between what is being brought here, what we call an uncontrolled sector. Anything can come in. And that's why we are saying Kenya or Africa is a dumping site because it's not controlled. So once traders cannot sell the bills, all happens.\nthen it goes into the other field. I've also experienced another thing. People also hide unregulated stuff inside the containers. For example, there are stuff that they're not supposed to come into the country, Kenya. But also with the infiltration, with the custom, which is also our own problem, allowing such things to come in because you're being bribed and you allow, for example, handkerchief, to come in, underwears to come in.\nwhile legally those items are not allowed in Kenya, that tells you there's a system problem. Everyone wants to make money and everyone wants to do weird things to make sure they have really made money, whether it in Kenya or in the global north. It's the intention of everyone to make sure they make revenue. So with all these then and regulation and infiltration,\nit contributes massively towards the worst problem. And that's why there's a lot of denial globally. So the global north is trying to say, what you guys are saying doesn't make sense. And the global south now are throwing again the blame game. You guys need to be accountable. But there has to be soberness. And that's why this scheme is very important, to make sure they bring soberness within the system. There's no system at place. It has to be defined.", "end": 2046.0 }, { "start": 2046.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: Just to top up on something he has mentioned about illegal products coming in, the blame is on both sides, import of exit and import of entry. So you'll find the inspectorate in any of the European countries is not aware that East Africa has a least Africa second hand standard of what is expected to come into the country. And then also maybe even the inspector at the import of entry is also not aware.\nof this ⁓ regulation or standard that is there. So there's need now for a government to government and ⁓ regulator to regulators and other bodies to actually have that awareness creation on what actually is allowed into the country or not allowed into the country. And then those mitigations will be done at both import of entry and import of exit. So that's also very important also to understand there.", "end": 2105.0 }, { "start": 2105.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Sounds like still a lot of work to do. Yes. Let's look into the future. ⁓ Where do you want to be? Where do you see?", "end": 2114.0 }, { "start": 2114.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: in three to five years? For the next one year to three years, we now want to annually collect and process about a million kgs because when you do upcycling, it's still at a very small scale. When you do mechanical recycling, you can do things ⁓ at a bigger scale. So that means we want to collect more and we want to recycle more. That's where we want to be.", "end": 2143.0 }, { "start": 2143.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: So what about views?", "end": 2147.0 }, { "start": 2147.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: For us, I would want to actually set up a functional EPR scheme in the country. Actually, it will be the first thing that blows us out. But also to make it functional, to make it more relevant to the recyclers and waste heaters protocols. Two is also to contribute to the\nglobal conversations of defining what is a global or are the ultimate people asking for textiles. And finally is just to drive the conversation of codec to resign to the brands at that later. So Virgil, I think those are the big three ⁓ things that I hope to accomplish in the next two years.", "end": 2202.0 }, { "start": 2202.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Awesome. So what kind of people who are listening should reach out to support you or where you can support.", "end": 2210.0 }, { "start": 2210.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: So for us, it's EPR schemes globally. So I would like just to mention a few that I've worked with, seamless in Australia, the ERP Netherlands and Lander Group. Kenya Wiley, he's a professor at Georgetown University. So would want to connect more with other global EPR tools and also brands that are doing products and they don't know how to do it.\nThey are willing to do it, but they don't know how to do it. So we could be able to work with them, whether they have a retail shop in Kenya or in the other country in the African community. So those are the kind of, and even individuals who want to actually walk the sustainability journey, so we'd be able to walk with them.", "end": 2257.0 }, { "start": 2257.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Wonderful. Alex, what about you?", "end": 2259.0 }, { "start": 2259.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: At the current moment, locally, we want to make sure our collection centers are everywhere, including supermarkets. They should, I know, like theoretically, they understand what is circular economy on paper, but they're not implementing it while they're also selling different brands of clothing, be it Zara, be it H &M, be it Nike, be it Adidas. So it's their responsibility to make sure\nAfrica collects textiles, beans, and their supermarkets everywhere. When they see ACT, they know what it means. Internationally, we are calling for corporate or companies to place an order with us to buy our up-cycled product at the current moment. We can be able to support more jobs and we can make sure that infrastructure we are talking about is there.\nSo we're not asking like, yeah, give us money directly. We are asking if you support us, then with the profit we can generate, we can be able to build up the systems. Of course, we are calling other people like the financiers. These are the investors. They can come in, let's have a business case and let's discuss how they can invest in us and that we can do business together. We are calling other knowledge partners like manufacturers of machine.\nfor mechanical recycling to come on board to contact us because also selecting the right machine for the right application in Kenya can be a challenge and can be a problem. And as we're having a very good knowledge partner who can really guide us and help us in making sure we are doing what is right, these are the people who really love to connect with", "end": 2369.0 }, { "start": 2369.0, "text": "Sarah Njau: Am I allowed to add? It's the ⁓ researchers or for us as an EPR scheme. We are looking for people who have knowledge in textile recycling to kind of, because one of the key things that we'd want to do is to have a market survey just to understand how the markets are, like, so I had mentioned that earlier. So we are looking for researchers and be willing to work with us back journey could be very important because what Alex has mentioned about\nthe quality when the pair of jeans has been worn for more than five or 10 years, then the machine that was set originally for it is very different to what is going to be used for it to be underplanned. So I'm looking for essentials.", "end": 2415.0 }, { "start": 2415.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Cool, fantastic. Thanks a lot for giving us these insights.", "end": 2421.0 }, { "start": 2421.0, "text": "Alex Musembi: Thank you so much.", "end": 2425.0 }, { "start": 2425.0, "text": "Patrick Hypscher: Thanks for listening to this episode of our series on Circular Entrepreneurship in Kenya! If you want to get the actionable one-pager about this conversation, sign up for the Circularity.fm newsletter. You can find it at www.circularity.fm Let’s drive a profitable circular economy and please don’t forget: the most abundant renewable resource is your imagination.", "end": 2452.0 }, { "start": 2452.0, "text": "Jingle: My name is Patrick Hypscher. And this is Circularity.fm, the podcast about understanding, building and managing circular business models.", "end": 2474.422 } ]