[
  {
    "start": 3.02,
    "end": 9.19,
    "text": "And we see that after the peak in two thousand one with startups and investments, there was a decline."
  },
  {
    "start": 9.23,
    "end": 11.73,
    "text": "In general startup and VC funding."
  },
  {
    "start": 12.31,
    "end": 14.41,
    "text": "but for circular economy that declined never happened right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 14.45,
    "end": 17.61,
    "text": "It's still increasing now at an all-time high."
  },
  {
    "start": 24.89,
    "end": 35.17,
    "text": "My name is Patrick Hübscher and this is Circularity FM The podcast about understanding building and managing circular business models."
  },
  {
    "start": 42.85,
    "end": 48.71,
    "text": "Here we are again at EFA, the world's leading trade fair for environmental technologies."
  },
  {
    "start": 49.71,
    "end": 55.37,
    "text": "In the previous episode We looked at the macroeconomic potential of circular economy."
  },
  {
    "start": 56.01,
    "end": 67.57,
    "text": "today resumed in on startups Circular Republic launched its new circular startup landscape and we will talk to authors and figures behind this report."
  },
  {
    "start": 67.77,
    "end": 76.63,
    "text": "The first conversation is with Leonhard Teichard, program lead at Circular Republic – he will talk us through the key insights of our reports."
  },
  {
    "start": 76.89,
    "end": 84.53,
    "text": "Afterwards we talked to Bruno Rutenig, managing partner of SEF Ventures to the report."
  },
  {
    "start": 84.71,
    "end": 98.13,
    "text": "The report is full of information for companies looking to cooperate with startups, or investors identifying crucial fields of investments and for startups who are looking for their next big challenge to solve."
  },
  {
    "start": 98.53,
    "end": 102.19,
    "text": "therefore we will also add a link in the report to show notes."
  },
  {
    "start": 103.05,
    "end": 104.41,
    "text": "Let's start with Leo."
  },
  {
    "start": 108.33,
    "end": 109.47,
    "text": "Our guest today is Leonhard"
  },
  {
    "start": 109.55,
    "end": 111.91,
    "text": "Teichert, Program Lead at Circular Republic."
  },
  {
    "start": 112.37,
    "end": 115.81,
    "text": "He just published the Circular Economy Startup Landscape."
  },
  {
    "start": 118.77,
    "end": 119.53,
    "text": "What is"
  },
  {
    "start": 119.73,
    "end": 120.79,
    "text": "the startup landscape?"
  },
  {
    "start": 121.25,
    "end": 121.75,
    "text": "Hi, Patrick!"
  },
  {
    "start": 122.21,
    "end": 123.89,
    "text": "Thank you so much for your invitation."
  },
  {
    "start": 124.19,
    "end": 135.549,
    "text": "Well, The startup landscape or the circular economy start-up landscape Is our attempt to track startup activities in the circular economic area In Europe."
  },
  {
    "start": 136.369,
    "end": 137.13,
    "text": "Where are gaps?"
  },
  {
    "start": 137.549,
    "end": 139.149,
    "text": "where is innovation happening right now?"
  },
  {
    "start": 139.309,
    "end": 140.369,
    "text": "Where's the money flowing?"
  },
  {
    "start": 141.089,
    "end": 147.149,
    "text": "It's important for our work to understand what is happening on the ground, and so we use that as a tool basically."
  },
  {
    "start": 147.25,
    "end": 156.149,
    "text": "So it really is a tool to signal what was going on but also keep an close eye of developments that are relevant in our work."
  },
  {
    "start": 156.549,
    "end": 159.269,
    "text": "Okay And how does this help you with daily business?"
  },
  {
    "start": 159.41,
    "end": 164.73,
    "text": "I mean Circular River Public is an enabler, ecosystem driver."
  },
  {
    "start": 165.39,
    "end": 167.47,
    "text": "You're in contact with many different stakeholders."
  },
  {
    "start": 167.589,
    "end": 168.149,
    "text": "How do they help"
  },
  {
    "start": 168.329,
    "end": 168.47,
    "text": "there?"
  },
  {
    "start": 168.809,
    "end": 176.73,
    "text": "It's a tool that helps us to connect the corporates we're working with together, with startups that drive specific innovation."
  },
  {
    "start": 176.85,
    "end": 183.25,
    "text": "That is currently lacking in the corporate space and one of our basic use piece right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 183.369,
    "end": 192.829,
    "text": "We bring together the innovation space with established corporate space To bridge these gaps And close material loops In real world."
  },
  {
    "start": 193.589,
    "end": 194.209,
    "text": "What are you seeing?"
  },
  {
    "start": 194.29,
    "end": 195.97,
    "text": "so where do have more than enough startups?"
  },
  {
    "start": 196.47,
    "end": 202.89,
    "text": "Well I think specifically when it comes to circular inputs, meaning biobased or biodegradable inputs."
  },
  {
    "start": 203.709,
    "end": 208.51,
    "text": "We have a very large number of startups in Europe."
  },
  {
    "start": 208.67,
    "end": 222.29,
    "text": "that is substitutes for carbon-based materials and substitutes fociel based materials, substitutes plastics... That's where really lot of start ups has been founded in the past."
  },
  {
    "start": 224.369,
    "end": 225.91,
    "text": "Probably we'll need to consolidate."
  },
  {
    "start": 225.97,
    "end": 229.29,
    "text": "Not all of these startups will scale, not all the start-ups can't scale."
  },
  {
    "start": 229.429,
    "end": 233.369,
    "text": "probably We needs sort of a standardization at some point also in this space."
  },
  {
    "start": 234.049,
    "end": 238.19,
    "text": "But it's great to see that so many people are thinking about regenerative solutions At this point."
  },
  {
    "start": 239.51,
    "end": 246.709,
    "text": "and when you say there too many is like based on any market sizing or was just like the sheer amount of startups."
  },
  {
    "start": 248.17,
    "end": 253.95,
    "text": "It's proportion compared to Start ups than other parts of value cycle."
  },
  {
    "start": 254.89,
    "end": 265.19,
    "text": "If you look at the value cycle and see how startups are distributed along the circular value chain or value creation, then there is too many quotation marks."
  },
  {
    "start": 265.51,
    "end": 272.63,
    "text": "Startups in the bio-based inputs space—and to little when it comes to critical raw materials for example."
  },
  {
    "start": 275.89,
    "end": 289.09,
    "text": "In order to bring circular economy to an industrial level we would need probably will not work alone with plastic substitutes."
  },
  {
    "start": 289.51,
    "end": 298.75,
    "text": "Okay, yeah clear you already mentioned critical raw materials so can you give us an overview of where do we lack startup innovation in Europe?"
  },
  {
    "start": 299.23,
    "end": 323.23,
    "text": "So as I just teased that We are lacking Innovation and critical raw Materials And in general In the end-of-life Aspects Of the secular economy when it comes to closing material loops when it comes to dismantling end-of-life products, or automatically refurbishing them in an automated manner."
  },
  {
    "start": 324.69,
    "end": 338.61,
    "text": "Everything that has to do with the last quarter of value cycle before we enter a new life cycle again is underrepresented and specifically so in the critical raw material space."
  },
  {
    "start": 339.53,
    "end": 346.43,
    "text": "We however see that specific startups Our top notch, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 346.51,
    "end": 352.07,
    "text": "We have a couple of startups in this space that are really at the forefront of what they're doing worldwide."
  },
  {
    "start": 352.89,
    "end": 354.75,
    "text": "But there too little at this point."
  },
  {
    "start": 355.43,
    "end": 363.31,
    "text": "if it comes to magnets for example or heavy and light rare earth elements these areas are very underrepresented."
  },
  {
    "start": 364.05,
    "end": 372.67,
    "text": "Okay, and I was initially thinking once we have everything biobased then we don't need so much the downstream solutions."
  },
  {
    "start": 372.79,
    "end": 376.45,
    "text": "but i guess it will take some time to have a bio-based magnet."
  },
  {
    "start": 376.51,
    "end": 376.67,
    "text": "Yeah"
  },
  {
    "start": 378.09,
    "end": 378.95,
    "text": "absolutely agree with you."
  },
  {
    "start": 379.01,
    "end": 380.17,
    "text": "that should be the vision right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 380.23,
    "end": 385.85,
    "text": "We should never drive away from that vision that at some point do you have a Bioeconomy basically."
  },
  {
    "start": 386.61,
    "end": 393.85,
    "text": "But To Be Realistic That Will Take A While And Also respective transition technologies, clean energy."
  },
  {
    "start": 394.45,
    "end": 401.55,
    "text": "They require tons and tons of critical raw materials And we need to think about a way to keep them in productive loops as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 401.83,
    "end": 403.05,
    "text": "Yeah Okay Gotcha."
  },
  {
    "start": 404.19,
    "end": 406.75,
    "text": "So now you named a few gaps."
  },
  {
    "start": 406.95,
    "end": 408.23,
    "text": "Well what does it take?"
  },
  {
    "start": 408.37,
    "end": 415.45,
    "text": "To close these gaps and bring more startup founders into that field and also scale up their solutions."
  },
  {
    "start": 415.59,
    "end": 416.75,
    "text": "That's really good question right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 416.93,
    "end": 426.97,
    "text": "I don't have the full answer but one interesting observation And that's also the reason why there are so many startups in the biobase-based space."
  },
  {
    "start": 427.27,
    "end": 432.13,
    "text": "People see some problems more likely than other problems, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 432.21,
    "end": 435.53,
    "text": "People saw that there is a packaging issue and that there was a plastics issues."
  },
  {
    "start": 435.59,
    "end": 437.95,
    "text": "That's why so many smart people decided to do something about it."
  },
  {
    "start": 439.37,
    "end": 448.61,
    "text": "There were so many industry related issues which I just hid somewhere... ...and only people who are really deep into this industry recognize or sees a problem."
  },
  {
    "start": 449.47,
    "end": 456.15,
    "text": "And so I think what we really have is a problem, founder match algorithm."
  },
  {
    "start": 456.35,
    "end": 461.45,
    "text": "So to say there's specific problems in the industry and they're smart person that can actually solve their problem."
  },
  {
    "start": 462.33,
    "end": 464.53,
    "text": "because We have this smart people here right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 464.63,
    "end": 467.13,
    "text": "We have engineers and specialists."
  },
  {
    "start": 467.69,
    "end": 469.73,
    "text": "They just need to get into the problems."
  },
  {
    "start": 470.69,
    "end": 476.83,
    "text": "communication also from corporate perspective key but i think thats one of key element."
  },
  {
    "start": 477.07,
    "end": 486.89,
    "text": "And then the other aspect is that, of course most of these innovations are hardware based and there's still a certain hesitation."
  },
  {
    "start": 487.19,
    "end": 489.55,
    "text": "this video comes to early stage investments in hardware."
  },
  {
    "start": 489.83,
    "end": 498.77,
    "text": "in general it's just more difficult to scale ,more likely to fail .And generally more risky for investors compared."
  },
  {
    "start": 500.65,
    "end": 500.65,
    "text": "I"
  },
  {
    "start": 501.59,
    "end": 504.05,
    "text": "will ask Bruno about that in a second, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 505.09,
    "end": 506.99,
    "text": "About the hardware not dating platform."
  },
  {
    "start": 507.97,
    "end": 511.67,
    "text": "but let's transition to their topic already and look at the capital side."
  },
  {
    "start": 512.03,
    "end": 515.169,
    "text": "you also looked at funding in circular economy startups."
  },
  {
    "start": 515.229,
    "end": 519.089,
    "text": "so how did that develop over the course of your reports?"
  },
  {
    "start": 519.53,
    "end": 525.689,
    "text": "So we started doing these reports in twenty-three and back then sort of circular economy started."
  },
  {
    "start": 530.469,
    "end": 533.43,
    "text": "And since then, we observed something quite remarkable."
  },
  {
    "start": 534.13,
    "end": 544.31,
    "text": "At least looking at Europe the share of circular economy investments continuously grew over the last four reports and years because our method of measuring that changed a bit."
  },
  {
    "start": 544.37,
    "end": 545.55,
    "text": "but The general trend."
  },
  {
    "start": 545.63,
    "end": 547.11,
    "text": "so let's not talk in absolute numbers."
  },
  {
    "start": 547.17,
    "end": 554.05,
    "text": "But the general trend is very positive on specifically compared to the overall startup investment trend, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 554.089,
    "end": 557.969,
    "text": "We see that after at peak in two thousand one with startups investments."
  },
  {
    "start": 558.39,
    "end": 561.67,
    "text": "There was there's a decline and general start-up NVC funding."
  },
  {
    "start": 562.25,
    "end": 567.39,
    "text": "but for circular economy that declined never happened Right it still increasing and is now an all time high."
  },
  {
    "start": 567.569,
    "end": 570.67,
    "text": "so That's great news for the space and community."
  },
  {
    "start": 571.51,
    "end": 573.25,
    "text": "Cool wonderful."
  },
  {
    "start": 573.329,
    "end": 583.03,
    "text": "Yeah we will add the link today Circular economy startup landscape, two thousand twenty six to the show notes and I guess everyone who wants To have their detailed breakdown."
  },
  {
    "start": 583.25,
    "end": 587.41,
    "text": "And you missed and still want to be part of The map they can reach out to Europe"
  },
  {
    "start": 587.449,
    "end": 590.61,
    "text": "definitely also gonna publish a written report accessible for everybody's."
  },
  {
    "start": 590.81,
    "end": 594.53,
    "text": "wonderful things For your work and providing some insights."
  },
  {
    "start": 594.829,
    "end": 596.11,
    "text": "Thank You so much for having was fun."
  },
  {
    "start": 600.31,
    "end": 606.969,
    "text": "So I'm here with Bruno Ruttnig, managing partner of SEF Ranchers and basically the host of this startup area."
  },
  {
    "start": 607.31,
    "end": 609.91,
    "text": "We're in your living room here Bruno."
  },
  {
    "start": 610.39,
    "end": 610.55,
    "text": "Living"
  },
  {
    "start": 610.63,
    "end": 610.77,
    "text": "room?"
  },
  {
    "start": 610.87,
    "end": 614.17,
    "text": "Almost sleeping room right after day four now."
  },
  {
    "start": 615.209,
    "end": 621.05,
    "text": "Bruno you work intensively with startups at EFAD but also before-and-after."
  },
  {
    "start": 621.55,
    "end": 624.13,
    "text": "You invest in startups and circular economy startups."
  },
  {
    "start": 624.189,
    "end": 624.849,
    "text": "how does it feel?"
  },
  {
    "start": 625.17,
    "end": 625.31,
    "text": "well?"
  },
  {
    "start": 625.689,
    "end": 626.61,
    "text": "First and foremost, well."
  },
  {
    "start": 626.67,
    "end": 628.13,
    "text": "thanks Patrick for having me."
  },
  {
    "start": 628.849,
    "end": 634.29,
    "text": "For the opportunity to talk here at EFAT as you said in my living room for a week or four days."
  },
  {
    "start": 634.99,
    "end": 635.949,
    "text": "Yeah how does it feel?"
  },
  {
    "start": 636.189,
    "end": 638.15,
    "text": "Well of course there is a lot of excitement."
  },
  {
    "start": 638.27,
    "end": 646.55,
    "text": "I mean we really believe that if we invest into the future Of the economy, of the circular economy And breakthrough innovations."
  },
  {
    "start": 646.75,
    "end": 653.29,
    "text": "But then again It's all about turning breakthrough innovations Into actual solutions."
  },
  {
    "start": 653.61,
    "end": 659.13,
    "text": "And I think this also not only reflects the spirits of investing into circular economy, but all."
  },
  {
    "start": 659.189,
    "end": 670.89,
    "text": "so why we are doing this here at EFAT with the startup area in terms of really like matching startups their innovations with partners and other network players to Yeah, provide money."
  },
  {
    "start": 671.709,
    "end": 683.61,
    "text": "But this is only part of the fun I think really like creating networks that are necessary to grow these innovations into solutions as a set which it's we liked default part of day after story and then do real fun."
  },
  {
    "start": 683.969,
    "end": 690.51,
    "text": "yeah i mean its super important SSL did bring the startups together with future customers with investors."
  },
  {
    "start": 691.43,
    "end": 698.65,
    "text": "I just talked too early about the key findings of startup landscape in this year."
  },
  {
    "start": 698.849,
    "end": 715.189,
    "text": "There is also the venture perspective and you know the startup perspective, the circular economy perspective and the venture capital perspective And there's almost always a struggle for hardware-based startups."
  },
  {
    "start": 715.51,
    "end": 723.87,
    "text": "In circular economy many start ups are hardware based the struggle for half-arrest startups to get capital."
  },
  {
    "start": 724.229,
    "end": 724.37,
    "text": "Why"
  },
  {
    "start": 724.51,
    "end": 724.89,
    "text": "is that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 725.589,
    "end": 728.449,
    "text": "Yeah, well there's a number of reasons right."
  },
  {
    "start": 728.63,
    "end": 740.589,
    "text": "so Of course traditionally when you look at I think venture capital and in Germany In Europe it used to invest a lot into more asset ledger solutions software BTC etc."
  },
  {
    "start": 741.709,
    "end": 743.27,
    "text": "So i would say yes!"
  },
  {
    "start": 743.61,
    "end": 745.829,
    "text": "Those technologies that scale faster Right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 746.91,
    "end": 752.67,
    "text": "That probably bit offy tradition of VC and financing in Europe."
  },
  {
    "start": 753.29,
    "end": 756.17,
    "text": "But I think also the comfort zone for these investors, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 756.89,
    "end": 779.63,
    "text": "The knowledge that is required to invest into circular economy in particular hardware start-ups are required like support them operationally with scaling technical scaling from lab pilots, demo first commercial also commercial scaling in terms of go-to market understanding the business models or The markets."
  },
  {
    "start": 779.709,
    "end": 786.03,
    "text": "The partnerships that are necessary and this requires really like a special skillset I would say Also from an DC investor."
  },
  {
    "start": 786.55,
    "end": 800.189,
    "text": "And this is something where we as SAF also have identified a bit of a market gap or an opportunity for us to come in with a different type of skill set because we see that startups are struggling, that co-investors are struggling."
  },
  {
    "start": 800.27,
    "end": 807.15,
    "text": "To find lead investors for circular economy hardware start ups and this is where we see good opportunities."
  },
  {
    "start": 808.709,
    "end": 836.569,
    "text": "I believe it's a good opportunity."
  },
  {
    "start": 851.87,
    "end": 854.449,
    "text": "The market framework and the conditions are right."
  },
  {
    "start": 854.569,
    "end": 860.67,
    "text": "The right set of financing, regulatory framework with a certain reliability over time."
  },
  {
    "start": 861.13,
    "end": 864.689,
    "text": "so I think yes there is an opportunity not in EasyBond but we're happy to take a lift."
  },
  {
    "start": 865.11,
    "end": 865.65,
    "text": "Yeah wonderful!"
  },
  {
    "start": 865.969,
    "end": 882.89,
    "text": "And Leo pointed out that they have especially few areas or opportunities fields where it has untapped potential combined the skillset it needs to invest in hardware-based startups."
  },
  {
    "start": 882.93,
    "end": 892.13,
    "text": "Let's flip that a bit and like if I am, uh...I've also found applying for funding yeah looking for the ideal partner."
  },
  {
    "start": 892.37,
    "end": 902.51,
    "text": "um what are two three essential aspects i should take care of especially in comparison to let's say software based Honeywater."
  },
  {
    "start": 902.729,
    "end": 903.53,
    "text": "What is essential?"
  },
  {
    "start": 904.87,
    "end": 907.65,
    "text": "That I have prepared before talking?"
  },
  {
    "start": 909.37,
    "end": 910.81,
    "text": "Yeah, well maybe number one."
  },
  {
    "start": 910.87,
    "end": 916.069,
    "text": "it's never too early to talk to us or as a TOVC investor because It's really like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 916.11,
    "end": 919.43,
    "text": "That's the journey is fundraising journey and company build-up journey."
  },
  {
    "start": 920.03,
    "end": 932.05,
    "text": "And I think as a founder No matter you know if you think about they go to market at The business model of technical scale up but also for the financing from day zero how i would say are zero plus One."
  },
  {
    "start": 933.29,
    "end": 938.61,
    "text": "try to map out, try to figure how your financing journey could look like."
  },
  {
    "start": 939.01,
    "end": 940.37,
    "text": "So it's not all about venture capital."
  },
  {
    "start": 940.49,
    "end": 945.27,
    "text": "I mean we as a venture capital fund are just small part of the game and its really important."
  },
  {
    "start": 945.329,
    "end": 952.51,
    "text": "let me call that something like a layered capital structure which again has various aspects."
  },
  {
    "start": 952.55,
    "end": 954.01,
    "text": "what do i mean with that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 954.13,
    "end": 957.53,
    "text": "so different types for different stages."
  },
  {
    "start": 960.01,
    "end": 973.05,
    "text": "Venture Capital, Strategic Capital public capital and private capital to start with, but then also for example try to finance With your venture money maybe more the tech side of the company."
  },
  {
    "start": 973.43,
    "end": 995.31,
    "text": "Yeah And trying to manage a tech risk Whereas when you need asset financing or when you have asset financing which she almost always has in well circular economy hardware at least Try to find other financing solutions for that grants strategic investors, that is an interesting partially controversial aspect."
  },
  {
    "start": 995.43,
    "end": 997.55,
    "text": "When to get in strategic investors?"
  },
  {
    "start": 999.43,
    "end": 1011.63,
    "text": "Flip side or downside maybe being if you take them too early You might block like the exit pathway talking about a financial journey... ...you might block something on the market when you talk about the sale side of things."
  },
  {
    "start": 1012.449,
    "end": 1015.829,
    "text": "but then again I think it's not so much about Yes or no?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1016.15,
    "end": 1019.61,
    "text": "Or if you take a strategic investor, but rather how do you take them."
  },
  {
    "start": 1020.27,
    "end": 1027.77,
    "text": "But I'm quite convinced that whether it's related to material science, chemicals recycling... Look at EFAT the players who are here."
  },
  {
    "start": 1028.51,
    "end": 1034.47,
    "text": "they play an important role in their layered capital structure i was talking about."
  },
  {
    "start": 1035.27,
    "end": 1041.89,
    "text": "Think again this from beginning with your question have the financing journey nicely mapped out"
  },
  {
    "start": 1043.35,
    "end": 1046.21,
    "text": "Cool, and just a side remark for everyone listening."
  },
  {
    "start": 1046.65,
    "end": 1047.03,
    "text": "Right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 1047.51,
    "end": 1051.41,
    "text": "last year we did a whole series on venture capital in circularity."
  },
  {
    "start": 1051.61,
    "end": 1054.83,
    "text": "so nine interviews with VC funds also hardware based."
  },
  {
    "start": 1055.11,
    "end": 1058.65,
    "text": "so every one who wants to dive deeper into that..."
  },
  {
    "start": 1058.89,
    "end": 1068.79,
    "text": "Yeah great super helpful work that you're doing around that one because it's really your journey financial journey financing journey technical upscaling all at the same time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1070.65,
    "end": 1074.01,
    "text": "Last question Bruno forget about the customers, yeah?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1074.65,
    "end": 1076.53,
    "text": "I mean in the end it's about solving customer problems."
  },
  {
    "start": 1076.61,
    "end": 1076.67,
    "text": "Yeah!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1076.73,
    "end": 1092.01,
    "text": "I sometimes feel that when i look into the delict-impose newspaper everyone wants to have this transformational technology and at the same time when it comes talking to customers don't want change that much."
  },
  {
    "start": 1093.09,
    "end": 1095.21,
    "text": "Everyone is looking for drop-in solutions."
  },
  {
    "start": 1096.43,
    "end": 1099.57,
    "text": "stuff fits in existing processes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1100.09,
    "end": 1102.23,
    "text": "so How to balance that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1102.33,
    "end": 1111.07,
    "text": "When do you rather say, okay I don't want change too much of the process but then maybe also impact might be limited."
  },
  {
    "start": 1111.37,
    "end": 1114.39,
    "text": "or is this a wrong tension i'm making up here."
  },
  {
    "start": 1115.87,
    "end": 1116.73,
    "text": "I think it is Patrick."
  },
  {
    "start": 1116.83,
    "end": 1122.03,
    "text": "so the question if there transformation can we have transformation without changing right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1123.29,
    "end": 1125.59,
    "text": "And I think the answer is no, you can't have that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1125.81,
    "end": 1127.01,
    "text": "So it's more about a question."
  },
  {
    "start": 1127.29,
    "end": 1130.15,
    "text": "well... ...I think we agree that we need industrial transformation easy."
  },
  {
    "start": 1131.43,
    "end": 1137.33,
    "text": "and then The Question Is What kind of change does this kind of trigger?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1137.77,
    "end": 1157.65,
    "text": "And i really Think yes We or Industrial Players value chains Have to Change and I also am convinced That It's not necessarily About avoiding change but rather in industry In Particular But rather about how to manage organizational change."
  },
  {
    "start": 1158.25,
    "end": 1166.49,
    "text": "And I would say, you know corporates rarely adopt in new technology but what they adopt is... or can i call it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1167.43,
    "end": 1169.61,
    "text": "that they adopt reduced risk, maybe?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1169.93,
    "end": 1172.25,
    "text": "And now the question is how do you achieve it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1172.43,
    "end": 1188.55,
    "text": "What can we do as a hardware startup to reduce risks in this adoption process where several things have nicely step-by-step defined scaling model knowhow to scale from lab to pilot demo, how many iterations?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1188.77,
    "end": 1190.61,
    "text": "A modular technology approach."
  },
  {
    "start": 1191.01,
    "end": 1212.03,
    "text": "Find the first movers on customer side maybe not big names but a smaller one privately owned company where owner has different set of incentives to move first create some nice references so that larger ones can follow many aspects like reducing risk in this adaption or journey."
  },
  {
    "start": 1212.63,
    "end": 1219.41,
    "text": "And then maybe another point in terms of how to manage this organizational change."
  },
  {
    "start": 1220.41,
    "end": 1235.53,
    "text": "Well, we all want to promise a better future with what you are doing but I think at the end it's rather for corporate about solving a painful solution that they have."
  },
  {
    "start": 1236.07,
    "end": 1244.17,
    "text": "and again there could be many aspects like cost pressure a insecure insecurity and in the supply chain."
  },
  {
    "start": 1244.75,
    "end": 1247.17,
    "text": "Even regular things are pressure, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1247.25,
    "end": 1250.11,
    "text": "And we're here on the environmental technology sector."
  },
  {
    "start": 1250.75,
    "end": 1270.77,
    "text": "so if you really can hear manage to organizational change In terms of then really solving pain points that they have I think it is very helpful in the longer term, not by itself but based on solving a pain point."
  },
  {
    "start": 1271.63,
    "end": 1272.19,
    "text": "Bruno, wonderful!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1272.83,
    "end": 1278.23,
    "text": "Thanks for sharing these really specific insights and inviting all of us to your living room here at EFAT."
  },
  {
    "start": 1279.19,
    "end": 1279.87,
    "text": "Yeah I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 1280.17,
    "end": 1282.05,
    "text": "well let's see if i stay longer?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1283.25,
    "end": 1285.49,
    "text": "Last day today... But we'll be back right."
  },
  {
    "start": 1285.57,
    "end": 1293.27,
    "text": "so this has been eight years of startup area And in two years Munich EFat twenty-twenty-eight will startup journey."
  },
  {
    "start": 1293.63,
    "end": 1299.73,
    "text": "So yeah, thanks Patrick for having me and being around and really like supporting the ecosystem."
  },
  {
    "start": 1299.83,
    "end": 1300.81,
    "text": "very helpful what you're doing!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1300.99,
    "end": 1301.15,
    "text": "Yeah"
  },
  {
    "start": 1301.53,
    "end": 1301.65,
    "text": "thank"
  },
  {
    "start": 1301.73,
    "end": 1302.37,
    "text": "you Golden Thanks."
  },
  {
    "start": 1305.83,
    "end": 1308.59,
    "text": "This was the third episode in our EFAT special."
  },
  {
    "start": 1309.15,
    "end": 1320.05,
    "text": "we started this series with a view on sovereignty continued with the economic potential of circularity And then this episode looked at these start-up landscape In Europe."
  },
  {
    "start": 1320.53,
    "end": 1335.51,
    "text": "The next episode will bring all of us together share and present to you the winners from the Circular Technology Award by Knorr Bremse with a focus on critical raw materials, and automated disassembly."
  },
  {
    "start": 1336.75,
    "end": 1337.37,
    "text": "Stay tuned!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1337.59,
    "end": 1346.57,
    "text": "And please make sure that we drive a profitable circular economy... ...and don't forget – The most abundant renewable resource is your imagination."
  },
  {
    "start": 1353.97,
    "end": 1355.49,
    "text": "My name is Patrick Hübscher…."
  },
  {
    "start": 1355.97,
    "end": 1364.77,
    "text": "…and this is Circularity FM the podcast about understanding, building and managing circular business models."
  }
]