[ { "start": 0.06, "end": 5.18, "text": "Your territory defines your conception of international touring." }, { "start": 5.44, "end": 14.06, "text": "Let's say short-term, mid-term and long term goals for the concert place And that is what we are discussing in this process." }, { "start": 14.52, "end": 17.72, "text": "We're basically together forming this concert." }, { "start": 18.24, "end": 22.52, "text": "How do you then communicate with a presenter who simply wants to fill the hall?" }, { "start": 22.8, "end": 22.84, "text": "Who?" }, { "start": 23.2, "end": 28.12, "text": "our audience Our audience interested in" }, { "start": 28.54, "end": 30.58, "text": "the economic pressure in the market, right?" }, { "start": 30.66, "end": 31.4, "text": "Everyone feels it." }, { "start": 32.759, "end": 34.14, "text": "Subsidies are decreasing." }, { "start": 34.44, "end": 45.1, "text": "Obviously public funding is decreasing and there's like an urge To just think about the question how can artistic formats can be become more economically independent Can't become essentially profitable" }, { "start": 45.38, "end": 46.1, "text": "have increased?" }, { "start": 46.16, "end": 47.36, "text": "of a fifteen percent" }, { "start": 48.04, "end": 48.12, "text": "Of" }, { "start": 48.32, "end": 54.56, "text": "arts funding to artists we went from hundred and seventy five million two two hundred millions for three years." }, { "start": 64.42, "end": 69.8, "text": "All right everybody, welcome to Business of Classical Music podcast." }, { "start": 69.94, "end": 71.82, "text": "This time we do it live for the first time." }, { "start": 72.64, "end": 88.38, "text": "Excited with that one and maybe let me introduce you my two guests, Hanni Lang, a pianist and concert creator from Germany And Gilles Doré who is director of contemporary performing arts platform called Sina from Canada." }, { "start": 89.06, "end": 89.62, "text": "My name is Leon." }, { "start": 90.48, "end": 91.3, "text": "I'm an entrepreneurs." }, { "start": 91.38, "end": 94.26, "text": "the podcast is basically a hobby project for us." }, { "start": 94.62, "end": 104.32, "text": "We are active in the website space as you can see on my hat That i'm wearing and we sell to organizations, but also two artists around The globe with our ai so far." }, { "start": 104.52, "end": 106.64, "text": "You can build your web site But also our custom solutions." }, { "start": 107.02, "end": 107.8, "text": "maybe you want to add?" }, { "start": 108.4, "end": 109.82, "text": "A couple of words To your introduction." }, { "start": 109.86, "end": 114.02, "text": "then they will move forward to the topic aligning artistic vision With market reality." }, { "start": 114.78, "end": 116.18, "text": "if you're gonna add something to your introduction." }, { "start": 116.6, "end": 116.74, "text": "honey" }, { "start": 117.5, "end": 118.92, "text": "Yes, hello to everybody." }, { "start": 119.14, "end": 124.64, "text": "So Honey Leong is my name and I'm a very traditionally trained pianist." }, { "start": 124.94, "end": 132.54, "text": "let's say And you know when your in this road You do everything what you need to do for or What are told?" }, { "start": 133.4, "end": 144.34, "text": "To...what should be done When you're on the way reach maybe some peaks Or dreams then there's long way down of mountain." }, { "start": 144.38, "end": 146.28, "text": "Then just ask why." }, { "start": 146.94, "end": 148.72, "text": "So, why are you doing this?" }, { "start": 149.42, "end": 150.5, "text": "Why your musician?" }, { "start": 150.74, "end": 163.08, "text": "and that was my case which brought me to the field I'm working in now as a pianist but also as teacher of new concert formats." }, { "start": 163.36, "end": 178.78, "text": "And search on where can we starting from music shift or turn little change of perspectives and involving the audiences in a concert or music experience." }, { "start": 180.0, "end": 180.26, "text": "Awesome!" }, { "start": 181.06, "end": 181.72, "text": "What about you, Gilles?" }, { "start": 182.78, "end": 186.38, "text": "Well I'm...I am the Executive Director of CINARS Conference." }, { "start": 186.48, "end": 190.16, "text": "CINAR is its Conférence Internationale des Arts de la Sainte." }, { "start": 190.2, "end": 194.24, "text": "It's based in Montreal where it has been established for forty-two years now." }, { "start": 196.2, "end": 204.82, "text": "Our mission to support the effort of exportation of contemporary dance, contemporary circus Music, theater and interdisciplinary." }, { "start": 205.34, "end": 210.64, "text": "We do a biennial every two years of course And we're bringing a thousand three hundred professional from fifty countries." }, { "start": 211.18, "end": 211.9, "text": "Which would be?" }, { "start": 212.12, "end": 222.98, "text": "Three hundred and thirty programmers about the same numbers of companies an agency Two hundred and fifty in cultural institution and close to five hundred artists." }, { "start": 223.66, "end": 239.74, "text": "I will reach now twenty-five thousand professionals all around the world and It's mainly focused on not contemporary Performing arts, so and we're doing international mission per year like this one We bring five to ten companies to go abroad with ten missions for you." }, { "start": 239.78, "end": 241.96, "text": "Right awesome Thank You very much." }, { "start": 242.86, "end": 251.54, "text": "So again the reason why we chose a topic Aligning artistic vision with market reality is simply due to the fact of The economic pressure in the market." }, { "start": 251.74, "end": 252.72, "text": "right everyone feels it." }, { "start": 254.1, "end": 264.84, "text": "Subsidies are decreasing obviously public funding is decreasing And there's an urge to just think about the question, how can artistic formats become more economically independent?" }, { "start": 264.94, "end": 266.42, "text": "Can it be essentially profitable." }, { "start": 267.84, "end": 275.5, "text": "The podcast as you see is called Business of Classical Music so its really about putting some light on different stakeholders in the market." }, { "start": 275.56, "end": 281.28, "text": "monetize and for our last ten podcast episodes which we did with concert hall directors, concertos Dortmund e.g." }, { "start": 281.72, "end": 290.52, "text": "Andrea Schessel from München Musik a private organizer We expect artists to think more about that topic." }, { "start": 291.12, "end": 297.9, "text": "Artists should know, that budgets are decreasing and economic viability plays a bigger role in our conceptual planning." }, { "start": 299.2, "end": 300.7, "text": "That is the reason why we chose this topic." }, { "start": 301.2, "end": 308.44, "text": "The key of today's panel is really to find out some key takeaways, how do perspectives need to shift?" }, { "start": 308.82, "end": 313.94, "text": "What are direct measurements that can be implemented and maybe also different just perspectives on the whole topic." }, { "start": 314.14, "end": 315.16, "text": "So honey let's start with you!" }, { "start": 316.18, "end": 322.84, "text": "You're an artist by yourself... ...and create concerts from scratch concert experiences which aren't standard repertoire stuff" }, { "start": 322.96, "end": 323.12, "text": "right?!" }, { "start": 323.62, "end": 326.42, "text": "How usually creates a concert experience from scratch?" }, { "start": 327.84, "end": 330.7, "text": "So there are many different ways to start." }, { "start": 330.82, "end": 343.3, "text": "It can be a theme of the festival, for example it can be concert location which already brings history and also a piece of music." }, { "start": 352.12, "end": 358.46, "text": "Now, this is the question of time we are living in and I want to artistically address this topic." }, { "start": 359.26, "end": 373.26, "text": "And starting from these points, it's a big research moment because of course if you are working on terms of identity roots home nature whatever It might be." }, { "start": 373.5, "end": 381.16, "text": "It means that you have to really deeply understand what is it about and What is the connection in?" }, { "start": 381.5, "end": 383.4, "text": "The music I'm going to bring." }, { "start": 384.14, "end": 388.9, "text": "So and what has maybe the music off-the past to do with this context?" }, { "start": 389.06, "end": 399.28, "text": "and I think everybody can agree that Beethoven is a really relevant person with very, really relevant music for today's world as well." }, { "start": 399.5, "end": 406.66, "text": "But it's the matter on how we can build the context of this music from the past to the time where living in today." }, { "start": 406.8, "end": 412.66, "text": "And That basically my aim and starting point For concept." }, { "start": 413.18, "end": 414.56, "text": "How do you then communicate?" }, { "start": 414.62, "end": 417.46, "text": "With a presenter who simply wants to fill the hall?" }, { "start": 418.26, "end": 418.94, "text": "What do you say to them?" }, { "start": 419.0, "end": 420.02, "text": "How does communication look like?" }, { "start": 420.5, "end": 423.76, "text": "it's I would say a co-creational process, of course It's." }, { "start": 424.12, "end": 428.78, "text": "everything is about dialogue and Of course our core element." }, { "start": 428.92, "end": 431.1, "text": "Is the music in The end?" }, { "start": 431.24, "end": 437.74, "text": "and for me For example a concert always has To have something to say." }, { "start": 438.56, "end": 451.22, "text": "And if we are like When our common ground is we want to have this message We want to have that our audience can take something out of this concert." }, { "start": 451.28, "end": 458.48, "text": "It can be a person feels touched, or has questions... Or he is just irritated!" }, { "start": 459.44, "end": 462.24, "text": "anything can be, but the concert has something to say." }, { "start": 462.7, "end": 471.04, "text": "And starting from this point of course it's also about okay how many people maybe already know the pieces I'm bringing?" }, { "start": 471.44, "end": 474.98, "text": "How many are completely new or coming from something else?" }, { "start": 475.04, "end": 484.64, "text": "so its all about balance and let us say short term midterm long-term goals for a concert place." }, { "start": 484.92, "end": 488.14, "text": "that is what we're discussing in these processes." }, { "start": 488.34, "end": 491.54, "text": "We are basically together forming this concert." }, { "start": 492.18, "end": 496.04, "text": "Totally, what do you think is very important for presenters nowadays?" }, { "start": 496.84, "end": 497.64, "text": "What are they looking for?" }, { "start": 498.52, "end": 500.08, "text": "I Think it should be both." }, { "start": 500.22, "end": 504.76, "text": "of course It's not about like we stop the traditional way we perform." }, { "start": 504.84, "end": 509.14, "text": "its still Important and it still has many people who wants to listen to it." }, { "start": 509.52, "end": 524.62, "text": "But i think on the same time that we have To create different kind Of presentations as well a more diverse, or getting more diverse society in this world to offer both of these." }, { "start": 524.68, "end": 535.04, "text": "And then on the one hand you have your traditional audience and on the other hand you've got new audiences... ...and at this concert together they can experience both!" }, { "start": 535.64, "end": 539.94, "text": "For some it's something new but for others there is already something that they know." }, { "start": 541.02, "end": 545.36, "text": "Has ever been friction between like your artistic vision so-to speak?" }, { "start": 545.94, "end": 547.6, "text": "And the presenters' expectations?" }, { "start": 548.96, "end": 549.7, "text": "Of course they are." }, { "start": 550.12, "end": 559.46, "text": "I mean we're people from different backgrounds, from different cultures... We have different views and different opinions on things and how we work together." }, { "start": 560.0, "end": 570.52, "text": "but in a world where friction is very natural thing ...and it's something that you need to get warmth out of it." }, { "start": 570.92, "end": 572.64, "text": "That's what friction is all about." }, { "start": 573.72, "end": 577.58, "text": "But no one did not a concert with you because of, let's say your more acceptable programs." }, { "start": 578.1, "end": 579.02, "text": "Or has that also happened?" }, { "start": 580.66, "end": 598.48, "text": "Of course I think the main aspect maybe people are asking me is program differently or I will think of what is a concert, and also who's coming to the concert." }, { "start": 598.58, "end": 600.12, "text": "And that all about." }, { "start": 600.82, "end": 603.26, "text": "we ask ourselves Who our audience?" }, { "start": 605.48, "end": 607.28, "text": "our audience interested in." }, { "start": 607.9, "end": 620.98, "text": "And this encountering moment, which is not a one-way direction like I'm on the stage and am only sending but it's...I'm also interested in the audience and i'm willing to go through the audience before the concert too." }, { "start": 621.06, "end": 623.18, "text": "understand who is there?" }, { "start": 625.72, "end": 628.48, "text": "Yeah, I wouldn't say it's adapting but its encountering." }, { "start": 629.06, "end": 649.2, "text": "It is a real encounter moment which only happens in resonating moments and also when i'm willing to be here And give hospitality that you are welcomed" }, { "start": 655.18, "end": 655.9, "text": "pay in, right?" }, { "start": 656.86, "end": 662.36, "text": "When I think about how you can sell most tickets essentially uh...you have that brand of the artist." }, { "start": 662.8, "end": 668.0, "text": "So let's say established a brand of Ego Levitt sells someone who is not famous doesn't sell." }, { "start": 668.08, "end": 670.06, "text": "so thats one degree or fame." }, { "start": 670.1, "end": 673.2, "text": "as to social media reach also aligns with it obviously." }, { "start": 673.66, "end": 691.24, "text": "and then like what does audience use too which really aligns towards your saying if we had conservative audiences Contemporary performing projects might rather pay on the account of getting maybe new people to your standard audience." }, { "start": 691.62, "end": 694.94, "text": "But may be the people who always come won't come because they're quite afraid Of what?" }, { "start": 695.02, "end": 696.64, "text": "They would expect with a program right." }, { "start": 696.68, "end": 700.94, "text": "so that's a different allocation obviously, but I think it's Always like a mixture of different accounts whether." }, { "start": 701.0, "end": 711.14, "text": "It's the brand or The monetary aspects and so one and so forth That you just have to kind of mix in your whole concert season Program in order to be like economically viable." }, { "start": 711.2, "end": 713.82, "text": "essentially mean Let's come to you a bit, Gilles." }, { "start": 713.86, "end": 715.44, "text": "You're active in the completely different market." }, { "start": 715.48, "end": 716.18, "text": "in Canada and Europe." }, { "start": 716.22, "end": 717.8, "text": "we always have that little more pessimistic feeling." }, { "start": 717.86, "end": 720.38, "text": "currently with budgets decreasing everything is going so bad right?" }, { "start": 720.68, "end": 722.94, "text": "But anyway how do things look in Canada?" }, { "start": 724.48, "end": 730.76, "text": "Well all living in the same world We are having this same tension Even if were America." }, { "start": 731.2, "end": 744.4, "text": "or we see the worlds changing so fast for new technology and the hyper segmentation of public, increasing diversity in programming structures." }, { "start": 744.52, "end": 749.04, "text": "So it gives pressure to different public programmers." }, { "start": 749.1, "end": 756.08, "text": "so that's why we also see new emerging private programmer getting into the field." }, { "start": 756.6, "end": 759.0, "text": "but its adding not pushing out." }, { "start": 759.2, "end": 767.7, "text": "you know history bring us to understand that it's not because of the technology arrived, we're losing history." }, { "start": 768.44, "end": 775.32, "text": "We used to go to theatre in the eighties and then radio arrive." }, { "start": 775.48, "end": 779.68, "text": "they were afraid there would be a lack of public." }, { "start": 779.76, "end": 785.54, "text": "and then the radio happened television film but it's adding to the experience." }, { "start": 785.58, "end": 787.68, "text": "So, so same with performing arts." }, { "start": 788.04, "end": 798.34, "text": "Performing arts used to be city and national theater but then we arrived to see you know new contemporary festival New Emerging Artists or they're adding into this experience." }, { "start": 798.94, "end": 807.74, "text": "now because of that lack in cuts some countries are emerging their reaction at private sector coming trying offer a way." }, { "start": 807.94, "end": 815.16, "text": "two aspect also You know, the education arts in a school is cutting also." }, { "start": 815.44, "end": 824.94, "text": "So now we see mediation which actually it's you know... ...education that was lacked two or three decades ago." }, { "start": 825.58, "end": 832.16, "text": "so the adaptation of public and programmer needs to respond to this new environment right?" }, { "start": 832.32, "end": 840.0, "text": "I think the economy of performing arts is changing but that adapting through years and the actual..." }, { "start": 842.6, "end": 843.42, "text": "That's a very bullish case." }, { "start": 843.5, "end": 844.24, "text": "I like it, but you're right." }, { "start": 844.6, "end": 848.64, "text": "basically with food technology pretty much You don't need specific venue anymore." }, { "start": 848.86, "end": 856.04, "text": "Everyone can become or build something artistically And obviously this segment of market gets bigger." }, { "start": 856.66, "end": 870.22, "text": "However as we also had in pre-discussions for our podcast today You told us there are more public funding available in Canada, which has a huge effect on the programming especially on contemporary arts." }, { "start": 870.28, "end": 876.22, "text": "Because let's be honest, contemporary art is usually the thing that sells the hardest because it's hard to convince people." }, { "start": 876.36, "end": 879.9, "text": "try out new formats with conservative audience space." }, { "start": 880.8, "end": 881.5, "text": "How was set up?" }, { "start": 882.2, "end": 883.48, "text": "Well we're lucky." }, { "start": 883.68, "end": 889.72, "text": "I think The Quebec Art Council are very close to artists." }, { "start": 891.06, "end": 897.7, "text": "We've been facing also the pressure of, you know... not cuts but increasing costs for travel." }, { "start": 898.4, "end": 900.56, "text": "And so we have all that pressure." }, { "start": 900.6, "end": 910.0, "text": "and actually artists went into streets in two years to ask the Art Council of Quebec to increase it." }, { "start": 910.06, "end": 916.02, "text": "at the end they had an increase of fifteen percent Funding to artists." }, { "start": 916.08, "end": 920.72, "text": "we went from hundred and seventy five million to two hundred millions for three years." }, { "start": 921.36, "end": 921.58, "text": "So it's" }, { "start": 921.78, "end": 922.96, "text": "really like per euro." }, { "start": 923.26, "end": 923.88, "text": "I didn't understand" }, { "start": 923.92, "end": 925.12, "text": "a year, and where are you?" }, { "start": 925.3, "end": 926.9, "text": "eight million population in Quebec?" }, { "start": 927.06, "end": 930.2, "text": "Okay In funding which is eva-which is basically available by the government" }, { "start": 930.84, "end": 941.98, "text": "The government gave to the artist now Two hundred million per year For creating for touring yeah And that its an increasing of fifteen percent since this year." }, { "start": 942.16, "end": 944.76, "text": "four or three years going for three years." }, { "start": 945.42, "end": 945.48, "text": "So" }, { "start": 945.98, "end": 946.72, "text": "we're pretty" }, { "start": 946.82, "end": 951.54, "text": "lucky on that because in Quebec, We are not facing the same issue." }, { "start": 951.78, "end": 952.76, "text": "you might have You know?" }, { "start": 952.82, "end": 979.1, "text": "Because international touring is of course easier to tour by taking a train from Brussels and Paris It's an hour-and-a-half train but from Montreal... ...we need take the airplane to go to Paris And we also need to take the plane to Vancouver in our own country, so that your territory defines the conception of international touring." }, { "start": 979.66, "end": 985.34, "text": "So Canada is a large country but it's an international conception of culture." }, { "start": 985.4, "end": 985.68, "text": "also." }, { "start": 986.3, "end": 989.44, "text": "we have not the same conception." }, { "start": 990.92, "end": 997.24, "text": "The model for contemporary performing arts needs to tour the world and keep alive art." }, { "start": 998.84, "end": 999.26, "text": "You know what?" }, { "start": 1001.56, "end": 1008.46, "text": "pitches, you see so many contemporary performing arts ensembles pitching to get into programs." }, { "start": 1009.24, "end": 1011.16, "text": "Like what did I need it do?" }, { "start": 1011.26, "end": 1012.56, "text": "To be on the on the programs" }, { "start": 1015.2, "end": 1016.0, "text": "there's no recipe." }, { "start": 1016.66, "end": 1017.9, "text": "first of all You need" }, { "start": 1018.0, "end": 1019.12, "text": "to be honest" }, { "start": 1019.8, "end": 1025.02, "text": "and know your artistic identity because he cannot reach the world." }, { "start": 1025.44, "end": 1031.0, "text": "but Your identity will dialogue with the public in The programmer." }, { "start": 1031.88, "end": 1036.72, "text": "So we know and see that in the world there's segmentation of family-of-arts." }, { "start": 1037.78, "end": 1043.06, "text": "A large theatre with two thousand seats, The programmer needs to" }, { "start": 1043.319, "end": 1044.16, "text": "fill a house." }, { "start": 1044.599, "end": 1051.26, "text": "so he has his criteria To find art & project That will fill the house." }, { "start": 1051.76, "end": 1054.96, "text": "but for now you know theatres are hundred seats." }, { "start": 1055.72, "end": 1061.28, "text": "It's much more into intimacy and sometimes a niche type of programming." }, { "start": 1061.86, "end": 1062.9, "text": "So it depends on" }, { "start": 1063.02, "end": 1063.58, "text": "who you are," }, { "start": 1063.8, "end": 1066.56, "text": "whom you want to reach... ...who is your family?" }, { "start": 1066.98, "end": 1068.28, "text": "And go from there to grow!" }, { "start": 1068.64, "end": 1075.42, "text": "You don't have to consider the success or fame that comes in Go." }, { "start": 1077.42, "end": 1082.94, "text": "but that achievement of your process, artistic process and be honest with whom you want to meet." }, { "start": 1083.34, "end": 1087.24, "text": "And the programmer in the public who wants to meet like what they're saying." }, { "start": 1087.92, "end": 1090.0, "text": "Dialogue with their community." }, { "start": 1090.36, "end": 1092.26, "text": "so this is a success on a pitch." }, { "start": 1092.5, "end": 1093.88, "text": "know-who do we need?" }, { "start": 1094.74, "end": 1105.44, "text": "But I find it sometimes hard to grasp right...and i think many people have feeling Sometimes the market and I love our different perspectives also on it because i'm a very rational guy." }, { "start": 1105.58, "end": 1106.9, "text": "so, I think like okay?" }, { "start": 1107.2, "end": 1109.86, "text": "I need to have x y z argument right." }, { "start": 1109.94, "end": 1112.82, "text": "And not like yeah you Have To find kind of leeway but see what she's saying." }, { "start": 1113.1, "end": 1123.44, "text": "i mean still i guess Markets might work Different and i guess The less public funding is available the more concrete things Needed be essentially right." }, { "start": 1123.5, "end": 1133.36, "text": "in terms Of that pitch however i Think as we Also had In Our Discussion It brings us to the question What should arts essentially do right in society?" }, { "start": 1133.42, "end": 1135.48, "text": "what's the function of artists and so on?" }, { "start": 1135.9, "end": 1138.4, "text": "Should they be even measured to return or an invest?" }, { "start": 1138.74, "end": 1144.68, "text": "yeah, In a concert hall scenario which is quite different aspect Which we will also have as a provocation prepared in couple minutes." }, { "start": 1145.74, "end": 1148.98, "text": "Though maybe coming back to that Canada European thing." }, { "start": 1149.94, "end": 1153.18, "text": "What makes programs then programmable internationally?" }, { "start": 1153.74, "end": 1155.74, "text": "What makes a programmable internationally?" }, { "start": 1155.78, "end": 1160.82, "text": "Are there differences between, let's say your market and the feeling that you get maybe here at Classical Next." }, { "start": 1161.98, "end": 1161.98, "text": "I" }, { "start": 1162.4, "end": 1163.48, "text": "was afraid of this question!" }, { "start": 1164.16, "end": 1166.58, "text": "There is no recipe for it going international." }, { "start": 1168.62, "end": 1171.56, "text": "but if you travel it enriches your process..." }, { "start": 1172.02, "end": 1172.52, "text": "...of arts" }, { "start": 1173.44, "end": 1179.06, "text": "And sometimes artists enrich their perspective when they travel." }, { "start": 1180.6, "end": 1181.66, "text": "Is there now...?" }, { "start": 1182.22, "end": 1184.64, "text": "a community of international programming." }, { "start": 1185.32, "end": 1186.58, "text": "This might be an issue, you know?" }, { "start": 1187.0, "end": 1205.1, "text": "But there's... I don't know what is International Programming that meets the sparkling unicity sometime in an artist who reflects some part of your culture reflection." }, { "start": 1205.52, "end": 1215.76, "text": "so this may be an aspect but you don't control an artist to say, I'll do international show with a concept of International." }, { "start": 1215.86, "end": 1217.12, "text": "It doesn't work that way and i" }, { "start": 1218.08, "end": 1225.24, "text": "think alot is also how let's say your presenter does the what-to-expect story on their channels." }, { "start": 1225.92, "end": 1230.62, "text": "most times we dont go to classical concert because they don´t know whats to expect." }, { "start": 1231.22, "end": 1239.62, "text": "Especially in my age group, like if I talk with people who are not in the classical music world when they ask them what is the main reason why you never went to an opera or anything that... ...I don't know." }, { "start": 1240.18, "end": 1240.94, "text": "What's happening there?" }, { "start": 1241.14, "end": 1241.32, "text": "You know!" }, { "start": 1241.5, "end": 1242.6, "text": "I have no expectation." }, { "start": 1242.66, "end": 1245.36, "text": "management going on and i think more concrete." }, { "start": 1245.48, "end": 1250.38, "text": "also visually through the channels and so on, someone gets a feeling of what to expect." }, { "start": 1251.58, "end": 1255.0, "text": "That heavily decreases the barrier for that first-time visit right?" }, { "start": 1255.42, "end": 1266.28, "text": "And I guess once that first time visit has happened it's a lot easier to build trust with least effort by presenters... ...and that brings us also to the perspective like What are the responsibility areas ?" }, { "start": 1266.86, "end": 1272.64, "text": "So what is the presenter responsible for filling the hall.. ..and what does the artist responsible for fill in the Hall?" }, { "start": 1274.48, "end": 1275.48, "text": "What's your perspective on that?" }, { "start": 1299.86, "end": 1303.94, "text": "always sold out sneak previews where people don't know what to expect." }, { "start": 1304.0, "end": 1313.98, "text": "And I also know that in the Elbphilharmonie we have like those blind date concerts, when there's no program at all and they are really well visited." }, { "start": 1314.42, "end": 1320.7, "text": "so sometimes maybe it is also the myth of not knowing exactly whats happening." }, { "start": 1320.76, "end": 1322.68, "text": "thats catching audience." }, { "start": 1322.94, "end": 1323.16, "text": "just a" }, { "start": 1324.38, "end": 1324.56, "text": "thought" }, { "start": 1325.9, "end": 1327.18, "text": "but you answer your question." }, { "start": 1327.4, "end": 1368.2, "text": "i think that, of course it's my responsibility and I can also only talk out-of-my perspective to bring the music in the highest quality because that is all about moments of connections and maybe also identifications in this program, which is then directly connected to music." }, { "start": 1368.68, "end": 1377.58, "text": "And also that musical elements are directly connected through social aspects... Right!" }, { "start": 1378.14, "end": 1388.1, "text": "...and also for the communities We are living in and to the group which is, at this exact moment of a concert also a community." }, { "start": 1388.6, "end": 1393.28, "text": "And find out what's connecting us with diversity we're living here right now." }, { "start": 1394.2, "end": 1396.64, "text": "I like that you think about a program." }, { "start": 1397.28, "end": 1400.86, "text": "most people perceive it as music But especially like how far you." }, { "start": 1400.94, "end": 1403.56, "text": "maybe this is also part of storytelling that can convince people right." }, { "start": 1403.7, "end": 1405.2, "text": "and when I think the more light You put on there." }, { "start": 1405.34, "end": 1408.84, "text": "The most successful anyway, what does a presenter needs to bring to the table?" }, { "start": 1408.88, "end": 1410.4, "text": "What's their job in filling the hall?" }, { "start": 1410.62, "end": 1411.06, "text": "What do you think?" }, { "start": 1412.52, "end": 1420.26, "text": "Well, I'm not a presenter here some in the room so but In my opinion, I think it's off course too." }, { "start": 1420.82, "end": 1424.6, "text": "what presenters know better than me Is of course they're audience" }, { "start": 1424.86, "end": 1425.04, "text": "great" }, { "start": 1425.6, "end": 1426.14, "text": "And thats." }, { "start": 1426.62, "end": 1436.74, "text": "That's an information I don't have, and for this information... ...I need the presenter because they know what their audience is looking for." }, { "start": 1437.58, "end": 1444.02, "text": "And of course there are no cities or villages where concert is taking place." }, { "start": 1444.54, "end": 1447.76, "text": "They also know that location much better than me." }, { "start": 1448.66, "end": 1452.04, "text": "With these informations we can work together on a program." }, { "start": 1454.14, "end": 1461.12, "text": "Especially these aspects are something of course a presenter at least in my case can bring into the cooperation." }, { "start": 1461.8, "end": 1464.36, "text": "Nice to just maybe add to that." }, { "start": 1465.76, "end": 1475.86, "text": "We did a podcast as I said with Andreas Schessel from München Musik who is pretty much one Of the few completely privately funded like organizers presenters in Munich, right?" }, { "start": 1476.26, "end": 1481.42, "text": "Munich it's little special city because The concert hall you basically rented." }, { "start": 1481.86, "end": 1483.24, "text": "So there's no, I don't know the English word." }, { "start": 1483.3, "end": 1484.44, "text": "There is no intendant right?" }, { "start": 1484.6, "end": 1493.18, "text": "You basically rent a concert hall and all of money that you make is primarily coming from ticketing No other subsidies or funding etc." }, { "start": 1493.36, "end": 1500.46, "text": "And he said for example ESA Philharmonie It was like one thousand seven hundred seats." }, { "start": 1502.12, "end": 1506.46, "text": "He says it has to sell out seventy percent of tickets To be break even." }, { "start": 1507.4, "end": 1508.44, "text": "But his goal is making money." }, { "start": 1508.9, "end": 1511.32, "text": "So he probably should rather sell out eighty ninety percent, right?" }, { "start": 1511.74, "end": 1516.48, "text": "And here also sees every individual concert as a profit center." }, { "start": 1517.26, "end": 1528.28, "text": "He doesn't dilute and say let's do five concerts that attract maybe new audiences which are less profitable but just more standard repertoire rather, you know the cash cow so to speak." }, { "start": 1529.28, "end": 1533.64, "text": "and he says for every like say program there has to be it has to Be profitable essentially." }, { "start": 1534.08, "end": 1537.68, "text": "And he's still doing a lot of let's say leader on the chamber music thing." }, { "start": 1537.78, "end": 1539.7, "text": "some experimentation Think might sell a little harder." }, { "start": 1540.28, "end": 1540.66, "text": "It works." }, { "start": 1541.2, "end": 1544.32, "text": "So they are examples out there in the market also completely privately funded." }, { "start": 1544.66, "end": 1548.62, "text": "four years That show that quite that showed at quite nicely." }, { "start": 1550.12, "end": 1556.86, "text": "Maybe lets now move forward with with a little provocation, and I'm really excited on your thoughts." }, { "start": 1557.6, "end": 1559.92, "text": "And that provocation took credit also to you." }, { "start": 1561.34, "end": 1577.78, "text": "Jill came through the Zoom conversation we had couple of weeks ago where basically presented me completely new perspective argumentations or justification why arts in culture needs let's say like funding by governments." }, { "start": 1578.32, "end": 1580.04, "text": "I'm coming completely from the private sector." }, { "start": 1580.38, "end": 1586.62, "text": "So for me, it's always a little bit like that has to be very serious justification Why people should get money or something?" }, { "start": 1586.8, "end": 1591.22, "text": "From this date right and there as we look at just vacation everyone The taxpayer can basically follow." }, { "start": 1591.62, "end": 1593.54, "text": "however That drastically changed my mind." }, { "start": 1594.3, "end": 1595.8, "text": "so let's do that little thought experiment right." }, { "start": 1595.86, "end": 1601.2, "text": "um, so basically what you were saying is that Well, let start from their." }, { "start": 1601.7, "end": 1616.64, "text": "every one of you knows research and development departments in companies write researchers R&D Research and development apartments are usually getting ten to fifteen percent of revenue over company And they are not measured in terms of direct return on invest." }, { "start": 1616.96, "end": 1619.8, "text": "So what they need to do doesn't have to make money next month." }, { "start": 1620.04, "end": 1621.36, "text": "It doesn't Have To Make Money Next Quarter." }, { "start": 1621.94, "end": 1628.42, "text": "What They Need to Do Maybe Might Make Money or might Secure the Long-Term Existence Of a Company In Ten Years." }, { "start": 1629.0, "end": 1630.12, "text": "so that's their Functionality." }, { "start": 1630.28, "end": 1644.64, "text": "research and Development, and Let's Now Make The Thought Experiment that maybe artists are the research and development department for culture, and may be essentially society can be a case." }, { "start": 1645.12, "end": 1662.68, "text": "Because one could argue more diverse artistic spectrum, the more programs, you know like flourishing arts... The more enriched is culture which has probably net positive effect on developing and stability of our society." }, { "start": 1663.96, "end": 1675.6, "text": "And that might be maybe the most logical justification why artists need financial security, because it would mean better our culture and society." }, { "start": 1675.68, "end": 1680.68, "text": "The more artists like many others but there's huge competition among them right?" }, { "start": 1680.96, "end": 1696.34, "text": "Competition usually means their individual salary is going down so they earn less money if you do a trend view And that would put artists under huge financial pressure and essentially have a very downward negative effect on the thing." }, { "start": 1696.76, "end": 1701.64, "text": "You can basically only stop by providing financial security to ensure" }, { "start": 1701.8, "end": 1702.36, "text": "artistic" }, { "start": 1702.62, "end": 1703.98, "text": "experimentation, yeah?" }, { "start": 1704.06, "end": 1704.88, "text": "That's what it is all about." }, { "start": 1705.96, "end": 1709.7, "text": "How did you came up with this idea in solution?" }, { "start": 1711.22, "end": 1725.08, "text": "Well... The art council are there asking new artist develop new way to create in their own discipline." }, { "start": 1725.6, "end": 1730.82, "text": "Actually, in Canada it's this way and we've seen... I'll give you an example." }, { "start": 1731.34, "end": 1752.14, "text": "Sir Dusselet which was doing scouting around the world To find talents Find new emerging underground artists that were very sparkling And they were inviting them go on a board To brainstorm ideas to renew their shows." }, { "start": 1752.24, "end": 1753.72, "text": "This is twenty years ago, okay?" }, { "start": 1754.6, "end": 1761.34, "text": "So by investing the young one to write new ways to create New." }, { "start": 1763.78, "end": 1778.12, "text": "Well now we're getting into hybridity of writing because of the new technology whatever so that then you Young artists enrich The emerging Going through." }, { "start": 1778.32, "end": 1780.44, "text": "you know, I'm getting another idea." }, { "start": 1781.52, "end": 1792.38, "text": "You know the curve of consumer technology early adapter and then it grows." }, { "start": 1792.44, "end": 1796.2, "text": "so the first ten percent You understand what?" }, { "start": 1796.3, "end": 1796.48, "text": "I mean" }, { "start": 1796.7, "end": 1798.48, "text": "exponentially growing exactly" }, { "start": 1798.9, "end": 1812.34, "text": "So that you need to invest in R&D And then to see that your maybe programming medium-sized theater contemporary And after fifteen, twenty years you're into the general public culture." }, { "start": 1812.74, "end": 1821.0, "text": "So if you don't invest in a new emerging way of voice for young ones... ...you won't get their richer large" }, { "start": 1821.2, "end": 1826.08, "text": "public in twenty-years You don't see profits and all of sudden it goes up and it's adapted by market." }, { "start": 1826.42, "end": 1827.84, "text": "And perceived as standardized." }, { "start": 1827.98, "end": 1831.08, "text": "I'll say what are your perspective on that thing Ani?" }, { "start": 1832.3, "end": 1833.84, "text": "Do you know R&D ?" }, { "start": 1834.18, "end": 1834.56, "text": "artists." }, { "start": 1835.24, "end": 1843.92, "text": "No, I would even go a little bit further in the provocation and thinking of... In terms who is an artist?" }, { "start": 1844.6, "end": 1845.94, "text": "And aren't we?" }, { "start": 1846.36, "end": 1865.18, "text": "if we understand let's say artistic or The possibility Of being an artist Is basically all of us because it's potential which isn't every human being Which i believe to be creative than every one of us is potentially an artist." }, { "start": 1865.66, "end": 1877.14, "text": "And if we then go a little bit further that, If more artists or people who understand themselves as artists in society would not be our society?" }, { "start": 1877.32, "end": 1893.5, "text": "Or the world where living and better ones because everyone has possibility to shape what they are living in... Then, of course you can connect it to everything that... ...you were talking about like economical aspects." }, { "start": 1894.78, "end": 1896.82, "text": "Social aspects and political aspects." }, { "start": 1896.86, "end": 1902.5, "text": "but I think we need to understand what is an artist or who is a artist?" }, { "start": 1902.6, "end": 1913.54, "text": "And if we understand ourselves as artists then what are our responsibilities in shaping the boat we're in together right now with this crazy world?" }, { "start": 1914.24, "end": 1914.52, "text": "Totally!" }, { "start": 1915.24, "end": 1920.6, "text": "Totally, maybe let's put some positive light on things which was also very important for us." }, { "start": 1920.72, "end": 1924.66, "text": "right to keep the panel kind of like Yeah in lighting." }, { "start": 1924.78, "end": 1932.3, "text": "Like positive cool Because I think that's the attitude we need than a market even if the situation economically is not not that perfect." }, { "start": 1932.48, "end": 1944.5, "text": "one or One could also make Probably don't make myself friends with that thing but what would also make an argument that it kind of likes Makes the market Better." }, { "start": 1945.38, "end": 1946.4, "text": "yeah in brackets." }, { "start": 1946.92, "end": 1961.16, "text": "In terms of quality because as economic pressure rises obviously Yeah, it kind of filters out maybe some projects that are not accepted in the current programming." }, { "start": 1961.42, "end": 1967.16, "text": "Right and its controversy to what we've discussed before right but still one can make that argument right?" }, { "start": 1967.3, "end": 1971.14, "text": "It may be it leads to a better Artistic quality on the market." }, { "start": 1971.2, "end": 1972.04, "text": "it might lead to that." }, { "start": 1972.1, "end": 1972.78, "text": "It might not lead." }, { "start": 1972.84, "end": 1974.54, "text": "today We can also discuss what is better?" }, { "start": 1974.62, "end": 1984.34, "text": "What is worse in terms of that obviously yeah But I could also be a side effect of the current situation, but are your thoughts and this Honey probably another big fan right?" }, { "start": 1984.84, "end": 1984.9, "text": "no" }, { "start": 1985.52, "end": 1985.7, "text": "again" }, { "start": 1986.44, "end": 1988.22, "text": "Again i would say what his quality." }, { "start": 1988.48, "end": 1989.76, "text": "i mean its so individual." }, { "start": 1989.84, "end": 2003.2, "text": "what quality means i mean for some people The perfect played Bach might be the quality they were looking for, but just sitting next to that person or her." }, { "start": 2003.28, "end": 2022.12, "text": "The total experience of having a nice evening with friends is so different and I think it's so dependent on who comes what reason... And also how was your day before?" }, { "start": 2023.16, "end": 2031.12, "text": "It has so many uncountable influences in it that I find very hard to say, this works and these work not." }, { "start": 2031.22, "end": 2045.98, "text": "Because also from my experience... This concert might work at a different place but not the other country because cultural differences, difference of perspectives are there and I have to think about that." }, { "start": 2046.08, "end": 2054.62, "text": "And i cannot just bring one program here in the same program for other country because it's a completely different group of course." }, { "start": 2054.699, "end": 2054.96, "text": "Totally!" }, { "start": 2055.54, "end": 2059.96, "text": "I guess also success is then retrieved by diversity programs right?" }, { "start": 2061.3, "end": 2063.38, "text": "Putting them into the right place essentially." }, { "start": 2063.52, "end": 2067.179, "text": "That's what it's about, and for that we also need great venues." }, { "start": 2067.26, "end": 2070.679, "text": "For example there is Bergson in Munich which they do that great." }, { "start": 2070.86, "end": 2075.58, "text": "I don't know if you've known but Bergson-Münich basically has a big venue with many halls." }, { "start": 2076.159, "end": 2077.08, "text": "It's a great building." }, { "start": 2077.12, "end": 2079.179, "text": "its architecture You should check it out!" }, { "start": 2079.239, "end": 2090.28, "text": "Its completely privately funded And they offer anything from like Liederabende to heavy metal To raves...and it works..it's not that when you go there and have the feeling of compromise." }, { "start": 2090.48, "end": 2098.78, "text": "Yeah, it really brings together very exciting audiences and the conservative people are still happy going there Which is hard to do right." }, { "start": 2099.42, "end": 2100.9, "text": "but also some newcomers come in." }, { "start": 2100.96, "end": 2103.44, "text": "they experience maybe their first-time classical concert." }, { "start": 2103.52, "end": 2104.98, "text": "So its really bridging gaps." }, { "start": 2105.06, "end": 2110.38, "text": "Yeah However that's really hard because of infrastructure Because infrastructure is not that quick to build right?" }, { "start": 2110.46, "end": 2112.96, "text": "And it also needs obviously economic stability for it." }, { "start": 2113.92, "end": 2119.86, "text": "But program diversification putting the right program into the right place Is probably what what the market needs a bit more." }, { "start": 2121.08, "end": 2122.02, "text": "Yeah, very cool." }, { "start": 2122.54, "end": 2132.12, "text": "Okay let's maybe Finish this up with a positive outlook with the couple of key takeaways I want to hear from both of you." }, { "start": 2132.58, "end": 2138.08, "text": "like in that shift we're currently experiencing in the market How do may be perspectives?" }, { "start": 2138.26, "end": 2151.02, "text": "Of both The artist and the presenter need to shift just a little bit In order to come more to that intersection between artistic vision artistic authenticity You can sell and economic viability." }, { "start": 2152.28, "end": 2156.3, "text": "What would you say are maybe some direct things that come to your mind on the end?" }, { "start": 2156.64, "end": 2159.94, "text": "Well, I'd say it's two different paradigms." }, { "start": 2161.78, "end": 2170.1, "text": "either you're working in a developer project so... The breakeven is for sure." }, { "start": 2170.9, "end": 2189.06, "text": "the object or even your program more risky You might say Or more niche projects with a vision and the dialogue, with a programmer in an artist's niche of public." }, { "start": 2190.52, "end": 2191.78, "text": "I think it is two paradigms..." }, { "start": 2194.28, "end": 2196.18, "text": "It comes down to point communication." }, { "start": 2197.58, "end": 2201.1, "text": "so there has to be communication between artists as you said." }, { "start": 2202.0, "end": 2202.9, "text": "when are we playing?" }, { "start": 2204.62, "end": 2207.88, "text": "What might be interesting new thing for audience?" }, { "start": 2207.94, "end": 2209.86, "text": "how can code develop together" }, { "start": 2210.94, "end": 2211.08, "text": "etc.?" }, { "start": 2212.08, "end": 2212.8, "text": "So communication." }, { "start": 2213.04, "end": 2213.74, "text": "Yeah, exactly" }, { "start": 2213.82, "end": 2219.2, "text": "you need to know where your standing in your community and your ecosystem Totally." }, { "start": 2219.5, "end": 2229.06, "text": "And if You Know Programmer Artists In Public Right Then You Don't Have The Crisis Of Your Business Model." }, { "start": 2230.52, "end": 2231.62, "text": "You Know Who You Reach?" }, { "start": 2232.02, "end": 2238.38, "text": "You Know the Arts Value You Want To Bring On The Stage And Come With Artists From The Community." }, { "start": 2240.1, "end": 2246.58, "text": "And we're going into the complete changes of ecosystem because of that technology." }, { "start": 2247.44, "end": 2253.86, "text": "The new generation and their new technologies accelerate... ...the way you write, how do they consume arts?" }, { "start": 2254.34, "end": 2275.14, "text": "The hybridity of tools cuts linearities in a profound content maybe but then it adds also to the fact that new artists create non-linear art but much more conceptual, easy to understand like tech talk." }, { "start": 2276.3, "end": 2281.52, "text": "But it helps also the young one get into conceptual writing." }, { "start": 2281.56, "end": 2283.14, "text": "I'm sorry i am going somewhere else." }, { "start": 2283.72, "end": 2291.64, "text": "as long you have a dialogue between who are your generation talking with your generations will attract new public." }, { "start": 2293.16, "end": 2293.92, "text": "Honey what's yours?" }, { "start": 2295.92, "end": 2299.96, "text": "It is all about why we need start from." }, { "start": 2301.54, "end": 2302.54, "text": "Why do I program?" }, { "start": 2303.08, "end": 2307.48, "text": "why Do i do this job via my musician, why do i need to play?" }, { "start": 2307.58, "end": 2313.6, "text": "so what is My really deeply inner needs To go on that stage tonight and play for these people." }, { "start": 2314.08, "end": 2314.8, "text": "And who are they." }, { "start": 2315.02, "end": 2320.9, "text": "So it's i think It's not only artists and presenters but we should Really Should Not forget the audiences" }, { "start": 2321.32, "end": 2321.6, "text": "totally." }, { "start": 2322.7, "end": 2323.9, "text": "It's hard to add something to That." }, { "start": 2323.98, "end": 2341.7, "text": "But my point Is maybe a different method of measuring economic profitability in really the sense you're talking about, so not seeing every concert as an individual profit center but rather saying this is a concert which makes us a lot money because of standard repertoire." }, { "start": 2342.06, "end": 2347.02, "text": "This is a concept which brings us maybe new audiences and makes our program more diverse, but it's may be less profitable." }, { "start": 2347.44, "end": 2355.62, "text": "So seeing that allocation aspect in measuring with the more birdseye perspective I guess this also then how diverse programs even can exist right first of all?" }, { "start": 2356.18, "end": 2364.76, "text": "And maybe also make the cake Of people who consume classical music just bigger Right Which is i guess or a common goal awesome." } ]