[ { "start": 0.0, "end": 4.48, "text": " and the Chinese industry has accelerated to the point" }, { "start": 4.48, "end": 7.28, "text": " that now they sell very competitive cars." }, { "start": 7.28, "end": 10.72, "text": " And I look forward to seeing them in the market" }, { "start": 10.72, "end": 13.68, "text": " because they will be cheaper, more competitive," }, { "start": 13.68, "end": 16.04, "text": " more reliable, fantastic batteries." }, { "start": 16.04, "end": 18.6, "text": " They're really good because they took it seriously." }, { "start": 18.6, "end": 22.0, "text": " Now, to the point that now Europe needs to learn from China." }, { "start": 22.0, "end": 27.32, "text": " Welcome to the special English edition of \"De Corsa Neustadt\"," }, { "start": 27.32, "end": 30.32, "text": " a German podcast series by Zabilla Bug," }, { "start": 30.32, "end": 32.52, "text": " in which she talks to pioneering leaders" }, { "start": 32.52, "end": 36.8, "text": " who, inspired by the World Economic Forum's great reset initiative," }, { "start": 36.8, "end": 38.8, "text": " create revolutionary projects" }, { "start": 38.8, "end": 43.36, "text": " that actually do make our world smarter, greener and fairer." }, { "start": 43.36, "end": 49.68, "text": " I am pleased to welcome Maria Mendeluz," }, { "start": 49.68, "end": 53.84, "text": " the Chief Executive Officer of the We Mean Business Coalition," }, { "start": 53.84, "end": 60.28, "text": " who was recently named one of Time's 100 most influential climate leaders in business." }, { "start": 60.28, "end": 64.0, "text": " With over 25 years of experience in sustainable development," }, { "start": 64.0, "end": 65.92, "text": " energy and climate action," }, { "start": 65.92, "end": 70.4, "text": " Maria has been at the forefront of driving global business leadership" }, { "start": 70.4, "end": 72.68, "text": " in the fight against climate change." }, { "start": 72.68, "end": 79.0, "text": " Under her guidance, the Coalition has mobilized nearly 17,000 companies worldwide" }, { "start": 79.0, "end": 83.8, "text": " to commit to reducing emissions in line with the Paris Agreement." }, { "start": 83.8, "end": 88.28, "text": " Her work continues to catalyze a transition to a net zero economy." }, { "start": 88.28, "end": 93.36, "text": " And today, we will talk about the need for radical collaboration," }, { "start": 93.36, "end": 97.28, "text": " enhancing corporate and governmental accountability," }, { "start": 97.28, "end": 100.2, "text": " the organization's 10-year anniversary," }, { "start": 100.2, "end": 103.8, "text": " as well as what lies ahead of us." }, { "start": 103.8, "end": 105.12, "text": " Good morning, Maria." }, { "start": 105.12, "end": 107.96, "text": " Ten years of We Mean Business Coalition." }, { "start": 107.96, "end": 110.48, "text": " Congratulations first." }, { "start": 110.48, "end": 115.92, "text": " Can you share with us the initial vision behind the organization?" }, { "start": 115.92, "end": 119.2, "text": " Yes. Well, thank you very much for having me on this podcast." }, { "start": 119.2, "end": 122.6, "text": " It's a real pleasure to be with you" }, { "start": 122.6, "end": 126.24, "text": " and pushing together for greater impact." }, { "start": 126.24, "end": 129.96, "text": " We need to position ourselves back in 2014," }, { "start": 129.96, "end": 131.96, "text": " when We Mean Business was created." }, { "start": 131.96, "end": 136.72, "text": " And what was the mindset of business and governments at that moment?" }, { "start": 136.72, "end": 140.0, "text": " It was prior to the Paris Agreement" }, { "start": 140.0, "end": 144.84, "text": " and there was not what now we call decisive action on climate." }, { "start": 144.84, "end": 149.64, "text": " So We Mean Business Coalition was founded with a very clear vision" }, { "start": 149.64, "end": 154.88, "text": " to unite the power of business to accelerate climate action at global scale." }, { "start": 154.88, "end": 158.28, "text": " Initially, the goal was to create a collective voice for the private sector" }, { "start": 158.28, "end": 163.48, "text": " that could push for more ambitious climate policies at the COP21 in Paris." }, { "start": 163.48, "end": 167.92, "text": " Within the first year of the Coalition, we saw the success of the Paris Agreement." }, { "start": 167.92, "end": 173.0, "text": " And over the past decade, this vision has evolved in response to the growing" }, { "start": 173.0, "end": 178.76, "text": " needs of climate and nature to respond to the crisis." }, { "start": 178.76, "end": 184.08, "text": " The Coalition has expanded its focus from simply advocating for climate action" }, { "start": 184.08, "end": 189.92, "text": " to actively supporting business in the transition to a natural economy." }, { "start": 189.92, "end": 193.36, "text": " This includes initiatives that help set science-based targets," }, { "start": 193.36, "end": 199.28, "text": " decarbonise supply chains, invest in nature and engage in policy advocacy." }, { "start": 199.28, "end": 204.72, "text": " The Coalition role has become increasingly pivotal in ensuring that businesses" }, { "start": 204.72, "end": 209.12, "text": " not only commit to climate goals, but also achieve them in a manner" }, { "start": 209.12, "end": 213.36, "text": " that promotes inclusivity and resilience." }, { "start": 213.36, "end": 220.32, "text": " Can I take you back to the beginning?" }, { "start": 220.32, "end": 226.4, "text": " You received the first funding I read from the IKEA Foundation." }, { "start": 226.4, "end": 231.2, "text": " Well, it is clear that IKEA Foundation has very strong values" }, { "start": 231.2, "end": 235.76, "text": " that are aligned with our values at We Mean Business." }, { "start": 235.76, "end": 240.88, "text": " And they saw that there was a necessity to bring the different business organizations" }, { "start": 240.88, "end": 245.52, "text": " to collaborate, to unite against a single voice." }, { "start": 245.52, "end": 249.52, "text": " Until then, the different organizations that formed the Coalition" }, { "start": 249.52, "end": 251.68, "text": " had their individual activities." }, { "start": 251.68, "end": 256.16, "text": " And we know that when we are together, we can be stronger and we can go farther." }, { "start": 256.16, "end": 260.96, "text": " And that's the philosophy behind the separation of We Mean Business." }, { "start": 260.96, "end": 265.36, "text": " IKEA Foundation has been such a fundamental partner in the life of" }, { "start": 265.36, "end": 268.0, "text": " We Mean Business and continues to be." }, { "start": 268.0, "end": 275.6, "text": " Because they invested in a collaboration that had never been done before." }, { "start": 275.6, "end": 280.4, "text": " And so they had a lot of faith on our chair, Steve Howard," }, { "start": 280.4, "end": 284.48, "text": " and on the willingness of the CEOs of the Coalition partners" }, { "start": 284.48, "end": 286.8, "text": " to be united and to work on this." }, { "start": 286.8, "end": 290.72, "text": " And it is true that everything we asked, except one thing" }, { "start": 290.72, "end": 294.96, "text": " that we asked for the Paris Agreement, was included in the Paris Agreement." }, { "start": 294.96, "end": 296.16, "text": " So it was very successful." }, { "start": 296.16, "end": 300.08, "text": " And since then, they've been focusing and evolving with us," }, { "start": 300.08, "end": 305.84, "text": " in the corporate climate action journey." }, { "start": 305.84, "end": 312.72, "text": " But just coming back to your 10 years in business," }, { "start": 312.72, "end": 319.6, "text": " which would you consider the most significant achievements?" }, { "start": 319.6, "end": 324.64, "text": " Well, so I think the first one was the Paris Agreement." }, { "start": 324.64, "end": 329.44, "text": " Even Christiana Figueres called the former CEO of We Mean Business," }, { "start": 329.44, "end": 332.56, "text": " Nigel Topping, the day of the Paris Agreement to thank them." }, { "start": 332.56, "end": 336.4, "text": " Because the voice of progressive business at that time" }, { "start": 336.4, "end": 339.6, "text": " was fundamental for governments to go ahead and sign" }, { "start": 339.6, "end": 341.28, "text": " the most ambitious climate agreement." }, { "start": 341.28, "end": 344.32, "text": " Then the coalition continued." }, { "start": 344.32, "end": 350.48, "text": " And in 2018, we were the first organization to say that we needed to keep the 1.5 targets." }, { "start": 352.16, "end": 355.36, "text": " It used to be two degrees, and then we moved it to 1.5." }, { "start": 355.36, "end": 359.36, "text": " That meant that a little bit later when COVID came," }, { "start": 359.36, "end": 364.0, "text": " we were the first ones as well to say, we need to build back better." }, { "start": 364.0, "end": 367.04, "text": " We need to take lessons from the COVID pandemic" }, { "start": 367.04, "end": 372.32, "text": " and reinvest in ensuring that this will not happen again." }, { "start": 372.32, "end": 375.84, "text": " And also that climate change and nature and biodiversity laws," }, { "start": 375.84, "end": 381.76, "text": " which are bigger crisis, can be tackled by investing on this build back better." }, { "start": 382.56, "end": 384.08, "text": " On those infrastructure." }, { "start": 384.08, "end": 390.4, "text": " And then we have been behind and pushing the governments to set ambitious indices" }, { "start": 390.4, "end": 392.24, "text": " in Europe, in the US." }, { "start": 392.24, "end": 398.16, "text": " And the policymakers have acknowledged the role of our coalition partners and ourselves" }, { "start": 398.16, "end": 400.08, "text": " in pushing for that ambition." }, { "start": 400.08, "end": 405.36, "text": " And that means that both the US and Europe have an objective" }, { "start": 405.36, "end": 408.56, "text": " that is aligned with what the science says we need to do by 2030." }, { "start": 408.56, "end": 410.72, "text": " Which is to have emissions." }, { "start": 411.68, "end": 417.76, "text": " And because there is a lot of emphasis from companies on net zero in 2050," }, { "start": 417.76, "end": 419.44, "text": " we say, well, that doesn't work." }, { "start": 419.44, "end": 423.84, "text": " We need to focus on what can be actionable in the next 10 years." }, { "start": 423.84, "end": 428.08, "text": " And that's why we created the campaign all in for 2030." }, { "start": 428.08, "end": 432.08, "text": " And now more recently in the last COP, and we're very proud of this," }, { "start": 432.08, "end": 439.04, "text": " we were the first organization to say, Vasta, we need to phase out for seal fuels." }, { "start": 439.04, "end": 442.08, "text": " You know, if you want to tackle, if you're serious about tackling climate change," }, { "start": 442.08, "end": 447.52, "text": " we need to tackle the very source of climate change, which is burning fossil fuels." }, { "start": 447.52, "end": 450.16, "text": " And so we mobilized around 200 companies." }, { "start": 450.16, "end": 456.48, "text": " They, we were very active on the lead up to COP 28." }, { "start": 456.48, "end": 461.68, "text": " And we're very happy to see this included in the final text, which is really," }, { "start": 461.68, "end": 466.56, "text": " and it's incredible to say, but because we should have included this day one." }, { "start": 467.2, "end": 472.72, "text": " But COP 28, finally, there is some text that says that we need to phase out for fuel." }, { "start": 472.72, "end": 475.12, "text": " That is, you know, the words." }, { "start": 475.12, "end": 476.8, "text": " I think." }, { "start": 476.8, "end": 479.76, "text": " Yeah, well, that's very impressive." }, { "start": 479.76, "end": 488.16, "text": " Because the COP 28 in Dubai marked the beginning of the end of the fossil fuel era." }, { "start": 488.16, "end": 495.44, "text": " And was the first time in history that we have a global agreement to transition away" }, { "start": 495.44, "end": 496.8, "text": " from all fossil fuels." }, { "start": 496.8, "end": 500.64, "text": " And I think in line with science was the sentence." }, { "start": 500.64, "end": 510.16, "text": " So all of that goes back to your hard work and your idea of radical collaboration." }, { "start": 510.16, "end": 514.88, "text": " Obviously, there are many, many actors that are pushing in that direction." }, { "start": 514.88, "end": 519.76, "text": " But I think, you know, what we do is that we bring the business community in this direction." }, { "start": 521.52, "end": 526.4, "text": " And we know that these things are hard to say as a company, I'm going to phase out fossil fuels." }, { "start": 526.4, "end": 530.32, "text": " It's not easy because for some uses, there's no alternatives." }, { "start": 530.32, "end": 532.8, "text": " But we are not radical." }, { "start": 532.8, "end": 537.12, "text": " We're just saying, OK, from now until 2030, we're going to create a plan to transition away from" }, { "start": 537.12, "end": 543.68, "text": " fossil fuels and then or unavated fossil fuels, honestly, because, you know, if we manage to" }, { "start": 543.68, "end": 546.0, "text": " capture CO2, fantastic." }, { "start": 546.0, "end": 548.32, "text": " So it is pragmatic, but it's ambitious." }, { "start": 548.32, "end": 553.12, "text": " And it is, you know, we always need to push the next boundaries." }, { "start": 553.12, "end": 556.88, "text": " And I suppose that's what we do when we push the next boundary." }, { "start": 556.88, "end": 560.16, "text": " We work with leading companies so that they show that it is possible." }, { "start": 560.16, "end": 564.48, "text": " All the companies follow governments listen, and then they put in place policies" }, { "start": 564.48, "end": 569.04, "text": " that will allow this to be implemented by the large majority of businesses." }, { "start": 569.04, "end": 571.6, "text": " This is the ambition loop." }, { "start": 571.6, "end": 573.76, "text": " And it's a key part of our theory of change." }, { "start": 574.88, "end": 582.88, "text": " And of course, the ambition and everything comes with collaboration and your drive for" }, { "start": 582.88, "end": 583.68, "text": " collaboration." }, { "start": 583.68, "end": 592.48, "text": " Just looking at your seven founding partners, you have not only seven partners, but you also" }, { "start": 592.48, "end": 598.32, "text": " work with another what 80 and probably by now more organizations that are really big players." }, { "start": 600.08, "end": 608.64, "text": " So can you explain a little bit about how this collaboration has been instrumental in driving" }, { "start": 608.64, "end": 610.4, "text": " the coalition's goals?" }, { "start": 610.4, "end": 612.4, "text": " Yes." }, { "start": 612.4, "end": 620.56, "text": " So, you know, I'm always remind of the importance of collaboration when I talk to companies." }, { "start": 620.56, "end": 626.32, "text": " And there's no single company that doesn't tell us I want to fight climate change." }, { "start": 626.32, "end": 630.56, "text": " I want to reduce my emissions, but I know that if I don't work with others," }, { "start": 630.56, "end": 634.32, "text": " there are many things that I cannot do by myself that we need to do together." }, { "start": 634.32, "end": 639.2, "text": " And so the business community is collaborating in unusual suspects." }, { "start": 639.2, "end": 645.84, "text": " Competitors are collaborating to tackle some of these most important challenges." }, { "start": 645.84, "end": 648.56, "text": " So the same happens with the coalition." }, { "start": 648.56, "end": 653.2, "text": " So we're very lucky to have incredible members, partners in the coalition," }, { "start": 654.4, "end": 660.88, "text": " that cover all parts of climate leadership from the accounting on emissions and disclosing," }, { "start": 660.88, "end": 667.28, "text": " which is CDP, to the actions that is B.S.R. and the World Business Council for Sustainable" }, { "start": 667.28, "end": 674.88, "text": " Development of Cambridge Institute of Sustainable Leadership to advocacy with partners like CERIS," }, { "start": 674.88, "end": 684.24, "text": " B.Team, Cambridge Leaders Group and all ambitious commitments in terms of renewables" }, { "start": 684.24, "end": 689.2, "text": " electric vehicles like the climate group. So it's an incredible group." }, { "start": 689.2, "end": 694.4, "text": " And I think the value of the collaboration is that instead of duplicating the work," }, { "start": 694.4, "end": 699.6, "text": " you know, once we are partners, you know that someone is going to be doing certain things." }, { "start": 699.6, "end": 704.96, "text": " Well, let's not duplicate. We know that CDP will be doing disclosure." }, { "start": 704.96, "end": 709.6, "text": " We have an incredible ambitious initiative on renewables." }, { "start": 709.6, "end": 716.08, "text": " So let's all point companies towards that initiative and let's all unite our voice" }, { "start": 716.08, "end": 718.88, "text": " to advocate for the policy change that is needed." }, { "start": 718.88, "end": 723.6, "text": " Now, of course, these important, these partners are," }, { "start": 723.6, "end": 728.16, "text": " we're an are very important partners, but there are many more partners out there." }, { "start": 728.16, "end": 733.52, "text": " And so we entered into strategic partnerships with the Science-Based Target Initiative," }, { "start": 733.52, "end": 739.28, "text": " which actually we were one of the founding partners and it's been a key success of the" }, { "start": 739.28, "end": 744.96, "text": " coalition with the B Lab, B Corporation, the B Corporation movement." }, { "start": 744.96, "end": 752.64, "text": " You know, we just spoke to them very recently and they are sending their companies for our" }, { "start": 752.64, "end": 759.76, "text": " commitments, both the SMIC, Lama Hab, SBTI and our advocacy action to environment defense fund" }, { "start": 759.76, "end": 766.56, "text": " and incredible Think Tank, American Think Tank for VCVCM, Votaical Market Initiative." }, { "start": 766.56, "end": 771.68, "text": " So and with those, we have more close relationships and then we work with many," }, { "start": 771.68, "end": 776.0, "text": " many partners because, you know, in any of the activities that we," }, { "start": 776.0, "end": 780.48, "text": " we do have at least three partners with whom we work and push for this because," }, { "start": 780.48, "end": 784.48, "text": " because it's just, this is not about being the smartest." }, { "start": 784.48, "end": 789.2, "text": " It's about working together to create this market thing together." }, { "start": 792.24, "end": 799.44, "text": " Can one say that the coalition's role is basically to push for company disclosures" }, { "start": 799.44, "end": 805.84, "text": " through voluntary standards and regulations? Is that correct?" }, { "start": 805.84, "end": 813.6, "text": " Well, we think that we talk to companies about the four A's of climate leadership." }, { "start": 813.6, "end": 820.64, "text": " So the first one is ambition. So we think, well, obviously first companies need to understand the" }, { "start": 820.64, "end": 826.4, "text": " footprint. Okay. So we need to do some calculations and say, okay, this is my footprint," }, { "start": 826.4, "end": 831.2, "text": " scope one, which is the direct emissions, scope two, electricity emissions," }, { "start": 831.2, "end": 835.76, "text": " scope three, value chain emissions. And within scope three, that is very complicated," }, { "start": 835.76, "end": 840.48, "text": " understand where are the most material emissions. Okay. So once they know that, then" }, { "start": 840.48, "end": 845.28, "text": " you say, you know, you should set a target. If you're a big company, go to SBTI. If you're small," }, { "start": 845.28, "end": 850.4, "text": " come to the SMIC Lama Hab, which is a program that we created and we're running" }, { "start": 850.4, "end": 855.52, "text": " from winning business. Then we say, you just need to move to action. So you need to purchase 100%" }, { "start": 855.52, "end": 860.96, "text": " renewables, electric vehicles and different, you know, chairmissions, steel and different" }, { "start": 860.96, "end": 865.52, "text": " activities that companies are doing anyway. But, you know, we try to help them and remove" }, { "start": 865.52, "end": 870.48, "text": " the barriers, et cetera, through the work with the partners. Okay. And then we bring the business" }, { "start": 870.48, "end": 875.84, "text": " boys that testimony, those lessons learned, that ambition to policymakers through advocacy." }, { "start": 875.84, "end": 879.92, "text": " We tell them, okay, you know, you need to be more ambitious. Your NDCs need to be aligned." }, { "start": 880.64, "end": 885.68, "text": " And need to be investable. You need to have this kind of policies that will help to unlock" }, { "start": 885.68, "end": 891.76, "text": " some of the barriers, et cetera. And then finally, is accountability is again, report progress," }, { "start": 891.76, "end": 897.36, "text": " report your emissions, report your participation. So it's one important thing that we launched a" }, { "start": 897.36, "end": 903.52, "text": " couple of years ago that is taking out of momentum is companies need to be consistent in how they" }, { "start": 903.52, "end": 911.2, "text": " talk to policymakers, they do policy advocacy and loving. And so it doesn't work if a company has" }, { "start": 911.2, "end": 917.44, "text": " an SBTI target, but they are looking for policies that will go against the achievement of that" }, { "start": 917.44, "end": 922.16, "text": " target because there's no consistency and coherence. You know, we call on governments to be" }, { "start": 922.16, "end": 926.88, "text": " coherent. So business need to also be coherent. And that's what we call responsible policy" }, { "start": 926.88, "end": 932.72, "text": " engagement. And we ask companies to report on what are the position of the different" }, { "start": 933.28, "end": 939.6, "text": " trade associations and industry groups and loving group regarding climate change so that we" }, { "start": 939.6, "end": 946.56, "text": " drive alignment. The serious thing important, the key word is alignment. It doesn't work if we have" }, { "start": 946.56, "end": 954.16, "text": " different rules in different geographies, in different sectors, creating, you know," }, { "start": 954.16, "end": 959.68, "text": " when avoiding any kind of level playing field, business wants to play by the rules." }, { "start": 960.4, "end": 964.96, "text": " If they want to have transparency on those rules, and that will allow them to go much farther." }, { "start": 964.96, "end": 969.92, "text": " And that's why it's important that alignment and policy drive." }, { "start": 969.92, "end": 976.72, "text": " Yeah. And you, of course, have been also involved, of course, in with the International" }, { "start": 976.72, "end": 983.04, "text": " Sustainability Standards Board, who helped to create this one language, if you want, right?" }, { "start": 983.04, "end": 985.92, "text": " What was the coalition's involvement in that?" }, { "start": 986.96, "end": 994.16, "text": " Well, we have been actively supporting them and participating in the different working groups." }, { "start": 994.16, "end": 999.92, "text": " Our partner, CDP, is the key partner that is working with them in ensuring alignment and ensuring" }, { "start": 999.92, "end": 1006.16, "text": " that both the CDP questioner and what it is being asked is aligned and interoperable." }, { "start": 1006.16, "end": 1013.6, "text": " Is is it's it's it's really important. It's important to have a global baseline, something that," }, { "start": 1013.6, "end": 1020.16, "text": " you know, at least all governments, all countries will apply to so that then companies can report" }, { "start": 1020.16, "end": 1026.24, "text": " the emissions in a similar way in different geographies. And then it can be comparable." }, { "start": 1026.24, "end": 1032.96, "text": " So I know you had in previous chapters Emmanuel Faber. So I'm sure he will explain it in full" }, { "start": 1032.96, "end": 1038.72, "text": " detail then. Yeah, yeah, no, it was wonderful. And it struck me at the time he was saying one thing" }, { "start": 1038.72, "end": 1050.72, "text": " that we all have to learn a new economic language together. And that is if you are open and willing" }, { "start": 1050.72, "end": 1057.44, "text": " to learn and you understand the context, of course, then it's a given. But if you're not," }, { "start": 1057.44, "end": 1066.0, "text": " it is a major barrier. How do you experience that this learning this new economic language?" }, { "start": 1066.0, "end": 1070.96, "text": " How do companies react when you first talk to them?" }, { "start": 1070.96, "end": 1079.76, "text": " Well, I agree with Emmanuel. That is a new language. And one, you know, it's like the financial" }, { "start": 1079.76, "end": 1086.4, "text": " statements, it took, I think about 100 years to do them. And we want to do the environmental" }, { "start": 1086.4, "end": 1094.24, "text": " standards in 10 years or 20 years. So it is normal that it's difficult. It's also very difficult" }, { "start": 1094.24, "end": 1100.72, "text": " to do them. It is also very difficult to have a good understanding of your footprint as a company," }, { "start": 1100.72, "end": 1107.92, "text": " especially those that have very low supply chains. But I always say the same, you know," }, { "start": 1107.92, "end": 1112.96, "text": " if you want to manage, you need to measure. So start by measuring and then suddenly you will" }, { "start": 1112.96, "end": 1119.44, "text": " start to reap the benefits of that measurement. Because if you reduce emissions, you're reducing" }, { "start": 1119.44, "end": 1128.88, "text": " costs most of the time. And there is an incredible potential to do so. So it is, you know, it is" }, { "start": 1128.88, "end": 1136.96, "text": " inevitably in the journey of any business, big and small, to measure emissions, to report them" }, { "start": 1136.96, "end": 1142.0, "text": " according to the regulations. And yes, at the beginning is hard, like for you and for me," }, { "start": 1142.0, "end": 1147.12, "text": " you know, when we need to do something new, it's not easy. But luckily," }, { "start": 1148.88, "end": 1153.12, "text": " they're not going to be the first companies to do it, right? So there's been a lot of companies" }, { "start": 1153.12, "end": 1158.8, "text": " that have been doing it for a while that can share their learnings. And so we're not started at zero," }, { "start": 1158.8, "end": 1163.04, "text": " we're starting maybe at 20 and we need to get to 100. But there is a lot of learnings." }, { "start": 1163.04, "end": 1171.12, "text": " So to those companies, I say, yeah, talk to others, speak with your different trade" }, { "start": 1171.12, "end": 1180.88, "text": " associations and governments peers, because there is an interest from any business that" }, { "start": 1180.88, "end": 1189.12, "text": " every business does account their emissions, because we're all, all businesses are part of" }, { "start": 1189.12, "end": 1194.48, "text": " someone else's supply chain business. And because companies commit to reduce the scope three emissions," }, { "start": 1195.04, "end": 1201.92, "text": " they need others to report emissions and to reduce them. And so this is a fantastic place to" }, { "start": 1201.92, "end": 1205.76, "text": " collaborate on one that is a win-win for others. Yeah, for everybody." }, { "start": 1205.76, "end": 1213.28, "text": " Yeah. And Maria, we were just talking about it just before we started the interview. You were also" }, { "start": 1213.28, "end": 1220.16, "text": " managing director of one of your current partners right now, the World Business Council for Sustainable" }, { "start": 1220.16, "end": 1226.64, "text": " Development. And if one takes a very good look into this organization, it is quite something here." }, { "start": 1226.64, "end": 1235.04, "text": " It's a global community of 230 of the world's leading businesses representing a combined revenue" }, { "start": 1235.04, "end": 1241.44, "text": " of more than $8.5 trillion. Talk to me a bit about it." }, { "start": 1241.44, "end": 1247.68, "text": " Well, it's an organization that I love because I spent 12 years working with them. And that's" }, { "start": 1247.68, "end": 1253.28, "text": " where I have matured professionally. And it has an incredible leader, Peter Packard," }, { "start": 1253.28, "end": 1257.84, "text": " with whom I work very closely and continue to work because he now sits in the board of women" }, { "start": 1257.84, "end": 1264.96, "text": " business. Peter has completely transformed the organization in the past years and" }, { "start": 1264.96, "end": 1272.16, "text": " re-transformed and transformed and his ability to look at the future and to respond to with what is" }, { "start": 1272.16, "end": 1280.48, "text": " needed from the business community is very visionary and advanced. The World Business Council" }, { "start": 1280.48, "end": 1286.8, "text": " for Sustainable Development works in different pathways. So they work with companies on how to" }, { "start": 1286.8, "end": 1295.04, "text": " transform the energy system, transport, industry, buildings, nature, agriculture, food in a way" }, { "start": 1295.04, "end": 1301.28, "text": " that is so profound deep of understanding. It is business. So it's not a thing. It's the business" }, { "start": 1301.28, "end": 1308.8, "text": " community sharing everything that they know for this public good in terms of climate action," }, { "start": 1308.8, "end": 1317.04, "text": " plastics, social equity, issues that are more transversal. They also have a lot of activities." }, { "start": 1317.04, "end": 1322.16, "text": " We also, when I was there, created a women program. They do some education courses for" }, { "start": 1322.16, "end": 1330.64, "text": " leading women, which is amazing. And you name it, it's a global economy in education. I think there" }, { "start": 1330.64, "end": 1340.32, "text": " are the forefront of many of these aspects and it is an invaluable player. And most of the things" }, { "start": 1340.32, "end": 1347.36, "text": " that they do are public. And so I invite everybody that is listening to go to the website and learn" }, { "start": 1347.36, "end": 1354.72, "text": " because there's so much to be learned and so much to see this continuous transformation that the" }, { "start": 1354.72, "end": 1362.24, "text": " sustainable world is going through that is very well represented by him, by Peter, but also the" }, { "start": 1362.24, "end": 1368.32, "text": " organization and it's incredible, my former colleagues. Now World Business Council also" }, { "start": 1368.32, "end": 1377.36, "text": " created some regional chapters. And those are run by people from the country. For example," }, { "start": 1377.36, "end": 1382.4, "text": " yesterday I spoke to Cebedez, which is the Brazilian Business Council for Sustainable" }, { "start": 1382.4, "end": 1389.2, "text": " Development. As you know, I know them Marina, the president for many years and they are mobilizing" }, { "start": 1389.2, "end": 1397.28, "text": " the Brazilian business actors to support COP30 and its success. Fantastic. There is another one" }, { "start": 1397.28, "end": 1403.76, "text": " in Australia in many Latin American countries. So what they do globally, then it is translated" }, { "start": 1403.76, "end": 1412.0, "text": " to that local level, to the local reality. And so it creates a tissue of business working on" }, { "start": 1412.0, "end": 1417.76, "text": " sustainability both at global and local level. That is very influential and interesting." }, { "start": 1417.76, "end": 1425.28, "text": " You were talking a bit about ambition of companies, but it takes also personal" }, { "start": 1425.28, "end": 1431.84, "text": " ambition to make that journey. So I said in the introduction already that you were named" }, { "start": 1431.84, "end": 1441.04, "text": " one of times 100 most influential climate leaders in business. Congratulations, by the way. So what" }, { "start": 1441.92, "end": 1448.72, "text": " took you there? When did you realize there is more to life than just going to work?" }, { "start": 1448.72, "end": 1456.96, "text": " Yeah, thank you. So I think everybody has some sort of personal journey into this. I mean, for me," }, { "start": 1456.96, "end": 1462.16, "text": " since I joined the World Business Council, it was very clear and I have a strong belief on the power" }, { "start": 1462.16, "end": 1470.32, "text": " of business to drive positive change. And both there and now at the coalition, this is what we are" }, { "start": 1471.04, "end": 1478.88, "text": " driving for and empowering. I also come to this with a huge sense of responsibility," }, { "start": 1478.88, "end": 1486.24, "text": " like you and like many other leaders. When you are in a position that you can influence," }, { "start": 1486.24, "end": 1495.04, "text": " you need to take that with a lot of responsibility. And so I think, and in many aspects," }, { "start": 1496.0, "end": 1502.0, "text": " I will never say no to a new idea and see where it can bring us if that's going to" }, { "start": 1502.0, "end": 1509.2, "text": " drive for this shared and common good and to advance both sustainability and climate change." }, { "start": 1509.2, "end": 1516.16, "text": " I think the people like us, like you, Sivilmi and many others that you have had in this podcast," }, { "start": 1516.16, "end": 1522.56, "text": " it takes a lot of resilience as well. Because let's face it, climate change is not being solved" }, { "start": 1522.56, "end": 1531.76, "text": " and emissions continue to grow. Temperatures continue to increase and it's hard. And so it also takes a" }, { "start": 1531.76, "end": 1539.92, "text": " huge amount of resilience and resistance and keep going. And then when you look back, then you realize," }, { "start": 1539.92, "end": 1545.04, "text": " wow, it's incredible, the amount of things that happen. If you look in one moment," }, { "start": 1545.04, "end": 1550.64, "text": " it might be frustrated. But if you look in the past 10 years, you say, well, there was no company" }, { "start": 1550.64, "end": 1559.68, "text": " that had targets aligned with net zero, 1.5. Now, there are 17,000 companies. Okay, wow. And they are," }, { "start": 1559.68, "end": 1565.92, "text": " I think, half of the world market cap. Okay, well, that's a big achievement. Now we need to see that" }, { "start": 1565.92, "end": 1573.68, "text": " in emission reductions, of course. And then we just saw some numbers that companies that have" }, { "start": 1573.68, "end": 1582.24, "text": " science-based targets, reduce maybe four percentage points, more emissions than other companies. So" }, { "start": 1582.24, "end": 1586.08, "text": " in other words, if you don't have a science-based target, your emissions have probably increased" }, { "start": 1586.08, "end": 1593.2, "text": " by 2%. If you have science-based targets, your emissions have reduced at least 2% to 4%. Okay." }, { "start": 1593.2, "end": 1599.04, "text": " So then you say, okay, well, yeah, what we're doing, it's having an impact. But yeah, when you see the" }, { "start": 1599.04, "end": 1608.88, "text": " catastrophes, the fires, the droughts, migration, it's really difficult to see that we need to do" }, { "start": 1608.88, "end": 1615.52, "text": " more. And we need many more like you and me to join us in this moment. Yeah, many more. And since" }, { "start": 1615.52, "end": 1622.0, "text": " you go into this area now, maybe we can spend a bit of time about talking the major barriers" }, { "start": 1622.56, "end": 1635.6, "text": " of change, which you encountered. Yeah, well, there are many. Let's say, yeah, let's take now" }, { "start": 1635.6, "end": 1647.36, "text": " something from your country, electric vehicles. So I think many more people should have electric" }, { "start": 1647.36, "end": 1655.28, "text": " vehicles because they are very, very efficient and competitive. And the prices are starting to be" }, { "start": 1655.28, "end": 1665.68, "text": " similar to cars, even better than hybrid cars. I have one, you know, I spent one third of euros" }, { "start": 1665.68, "end": 1674.64, "text": " in terms of the energy that the car uses and the driving, it's amazing. But we're stuck. And there is" }, { "start": 1675.76, "end": 1683.2, "text": " this year of the anxiety range, even if my car, I don't need to charge it at home and I don't" }, { "start": 1683.2, "end": 1688.64, "text": " need to charge it once a week at home. So I don't need to go to the gas station. But people say," }, { "start": 1688.64, "end": 1692.88, "text": " yeah, what am I going to do? And when I'm going to charge, and then when I go to a place, well," }, { "start": 1692.88, "end": 1697.2, "text": " when you go to that place, it's once a year and then you figure that out. But that shouldn't be" }, { "start": 1697.2, "end": 1704.4, "text": " the barrier. So I think moving people and changing the mindset, it's very important. Now, with that" }, { "start": 1704.4, "end": 1710.16, "text": " same example, we need more infrastructure for recharging. Okay, so people have that anxiety" }, { "start": 1710.16, "end": 1716.64, "text": " and they see that that works. And then the last point, which is one that, you know, you probably" }, { "start": 1716.64, "end": 1721.52, "text": " have seen, I have seen it, is the level of this information that is out there is incredible," }, { "start": 1721.52, "end": 1728.32, "text": " that is driven by certain actors that do not want electric vehicles to succeed. So electric vehicles," }, { "start": 1728.32, "end": 1735.68, "text": " they burn, you know, their life cycle emissions are worse, all that is not true. That it may," }, { "start": 1735.68, "end": 1740.16, "text": " it makes the headlines. And then it kind of reinforces this sentiment, no, no, I'm not going" }, { "start": 1740.16, "end": 1746.0, "text": " to go electric, I'll continue with hybrid. So, but then moving to more to the business side." }, { "start": 1746.0, "end": 1754.96, "text": " So, so permitting is a huge issue. So it takes three, four years to put, I don't know," }, { "start": 1755.84, "end": 1762.08, "text": " a wind park. That's unacceptable, unacceptable. It takes that long, really." }, { "start": 1762.08, "end": 1773.36, "text": " Yeah, yeah. And then there is so that's a huge issue. Then in supporting infrastructure, so" }, { "start": 1773.36, "end": 1777.52, "text": " that's more mainly in developing countries, yes, you can put they have a lot of, you know, solar" }, { "start": 1777.52, "end": 1781.36, "text": " capacity, you know, they can put a lot of solar capacity. But if there is not a grid infrastructure" }, { "start": 1781.36, "end": 1788.96, "text": " that provides backup power, then then it is not a viable to move there. And then, you know," }, { "start": 1788.96, "end": 1795.68, "text": " companies prefer to use these generators that are more reliable. So, so at the different levels," }, { "start": 1795.68, "end": 1803.12, "text": " mindset in red tape, and big investments in infrastructure are some of the big barriers" }, { "start": 1803.12, "end": 1808.4, "text": " that we face. Then there are technologies like green hydrogen that are very expensive." }, { "start": 1809.12, "end": 1814.32, "text": " And so for those we need police interventions like we did like we saw with solar PV," }, { "start": 1814.32, "end": 1821.52, "text": " back in the year 2000 with a strong subsidy by governments, so that those companies they learn," }, { "start": 1821.52, "end": 1825.6, "text": " they reduce the cost, they take economies of scales, they reduce part of the cost, and then" }, { "start": 1825.6, "end": 1827.36, "text": " they become more competitive." }, { "start": 1827.43, "end": 1829.67, "text": " and companies can use it." }, { "start": 1829.67, "end": 1835.75, "text": " You have not mentioned finance." }, { "start": 1835.75, "end": 1844.95, "text": " It's quite interesting because if you talk often, you know, investors say," }, { "start": 1844.95, "end": 1847.71, "text": " \"No, there's money, there's no bankable projects.\"" }, { "start": 1847.71, "end": 1851.43, "text": " And companies say, \"No one wants to fund my project.\"" }, { "start": 1851.43, "end": 1852.11, "text": " No?" }, { "start": 1852.11, "end": 1858.19, "text": " So I don't come from that world, but I was talking to a big company" }, { "start": 1858.19, "end": 1861.27, "text": " in the fashion industry and they were telling me this week," }, { "start": 1861.27, "end": 1864.83, "text": " and they were telling me that, you know, when they talk to their suppliers" }, { "start": 1864.83, "end": 1868.47, "text": " in developing countries about the need to integrate renewables in their plans," }, { "start": 1868.47, "end": 1872.07, "text": " for example, the question that the suppliers are asking is," }, { "start": 1872.07, "end": 1873.51, "text": " \"Can you help me do it?\"" }, { "start": 1873.51, "end": 1875.51, "text": " Because I don't know how to do it." }, { "start": 1875.51, "end": 1878.63, "text": " It's not, yeah, give me more money to do it." }, { "start": 1879.07, "end": 1885.19, "text": " OK, because if this big fashion company is asking, you know," }, { "start": 1885.19, "end": 1889.99, "text": " a supplier to do that, they will buy the product from the supplier." }, { "start": 1889.99, "end": 1893.43, "text": " And that for them is the biggest, the best finance that they can get" }, { "start": 1893.43, "end": 1895.15, "text": " because they will sell their product to it." }, { "start": 1895.15, "end": 1901.55, "text": " And that, of course, financing large infrastructures in developing countries" }, { "start": 1901.55, "end": 1902.87, "text": " is fundamental." }, { "start": 1902.87, "end": 1906.87, "text": " And in developing countries, the country risk is very high." }, { "start": 1907.31, "end": 1910.79, "text": " And the multilateral development banks, the World Bank and others," }, { "start": 1910.79, "end": 1915.87, "text": " you know, need to make an effort in reducing those risk premiums," }, { "start": 1915.87, "end": 1919.39, "text": " country risk premiums, so that then business and other institutions" }, { "start": 1919.39, "end": 1921.03, "text": " can invest in those countries." }, { "start": 1921.03, "end": 1924.75, "text": " So yes, it is a big issue, but not always." }, { "start": 1924.75, "end": 1931.51, "text": " Yeah, Maria, because you mentioned the car industry specifically" }, { "start": 1931.51, "end": 1932.63, "text": " in my country, Germany." }, { "start": 1934.15, "end": 1941.39, "text": " A short episode, I remember speaking to a group of German business leaders" }, { "start": 1941.39, "end": 1947.23, "text": " around 2018, I just came back from London equipped with the Financial Times" }, { "start": 1947.23, "end": 1953.07, "text": " and the latest article about the car industry." }, { "start": 1953.07, "end": 1957.91, "text": " And they talked about the how does the car of the future looks like." }, { "start": 1957.91, "end": 1962.03, "text": " And they had many ideas, you know, batteries clearly and these and that." }, { "start": 1963.03, "end": 1969.83, "text": " And the essence was they were saying, we don't know how the car of the future" }, { "start": 1969.83, "end": 1971.31, "text": " looks like." }, { "start": 1971.31, "end": 1977.79, "text": " But what we do know for sure is the car won't come out of Germany." }, { "start": 1977.79, "end": 1985.43, "text": " So you can imagine in front of those people, they looked at me with horror." }, { "start": 1986.43, "end": 1995.39, "text": " And I did some research into lobbyism of major industry leaders." }, { "start": 1995.39, "end": 2002.95, "text": " So I wondered today, should we have targeted those directly and earlier?" }, { "start": 2002.95, "end": 2008.99, "text": " And the other question would be, would they have listened or be to whom would" }, { "start": 2008.99, "end": 2009.95, "text": " they have listened to?" }, { "start": 2009.95, "end": 2012.23, "text": " What's your experience?" }, { "start": 2012.95, "end": 2018.95, "text": " Yeah, well, first, you know, let's all assume, you know, really positive intent." }, { "start": 2018.95, "end": 2022.75, "text": " So there are great people working in these companies that are trying their best." }, { "start": 2022.75, "end": 2024.87, "text": " But sometimes they don't see the way forward." }, { "start": 2024.87, "end": 2031.47, "text": " OK, now I find that the European car industry has been dragging their feet," }, { "start": 2031.47, "end": 2039.47, "text": " which meant that then the Chinese and the Chinese industry has accelerated" }, { "start": 2039.47, "end": 2043.19, "text": " to the point that now they sell very competitive cars." }, { "start": 2043.19, "end": 2047.99, "text": " And, you know, and I look forward to seeing them in the market because they" }, { "start": 2047.99, "end": 2052.87, "text": " will be cheaper, more competitive, more reliable, fantastic batteries." }, { "start": 2052.87, "end": 2055.27, "text": " They're really good because they took it seriously." }, { "start": 2055.27, "end": 2059.27, "text": " Now, to the point that now Europe needs to learn from China." }, { "start": 2059.27, "end": 2063.87, "text": " And so China is not any more the one that was coping is I think rather it would" }, { "start": 2063.87, "end": 2064.95, "text": " happen the other way around." }, { "start": 2065.71, "end": 2073.99, "text": " Now, it is true that the European industry, on the other hand, has not had" }, { "start": 2073.99, "end": 2078.79, "text": " the support from the governments that the Chinese have given to their industries." }, { "start": 2078.79, "end": 2084.11, "text": " And so in Europe, the approach has been, let me regulate, let me put targets." }, { "start": 2084.11, "end": 2087.15, "text": " Let me, you know, the sticks, I would say sticks and carols." }, { "start": 2087.15, "end": 2088.19, "text": " So there's a lot of sticks." }, { "start": 2088.19, "end": 2090.23, "text": " The Americans, it's all about carols." }, { "start": 2090.23, "end": 2092.27, "text": " And I think the Chinese is both." }, { "start": 2092.75, "end": 2098.07, "text": " OK, and so a little bit more of carols, you know, would help the industry." }, { "start": 2098.07, "end": 2104.47, "text": " And I'm a holistic industry strategy for the automotive industry would help." }, { "start": 2104.47, "end": 2106.43, "text": " Now, coming with tariffs." }, { "start": 2106.43, "end": 2108.91, "text": " Now, at last minute, fast." }, { "start": 2108.91, "end": 2114.07, "text": " Yeah, it sounds a bit, you know, a last minute decision, you know, and" }, { "start": 2114.07, "end": 2115.55, "text": " that's a result decision." }, { "start": 2115.55, "end": 2116.63, "text": " And it's very unfortunate." }, { "start": 2116.63, "end": 2121.95, "text": " I would rather see, you know, a strong industry that emerges that one that" }, { "start": 2121.95, "end": 2127.99, "text": " is very focused on what the future of the car it is, which means that we need" }, { "start": 2127.99, "end": 2130.31, "text": " to invest in such infrastructure." }, { "start": 2130.31, "end": 2131.99, "text": " We need to change the mindset of people." }, { "start": 2131.99, "end": 2138.99, "text": " We need to to increase the sales of electric vehicles, publicize them more," }, { "start": 2138.99, "end": 2140.23, "text": " et cetera." }, { "start": 2140.23, "end": 2145.07, "text": " So so I think it's a lesson learned from the industry, because you talk to" }, { "start": 2145.07, "end": 2148.31, "text": " any of the executives of the industry, you tell them, you know, how do you think" }, { "start": 2148.31, "end": 2151.35, "text": " they call into the 35 is going to be in the states electric." }, { "start": 2151.95, "end": 2154.31, "text": " So then if you know that it's going to electric, why don't you go" }, { "start": 2154.31, "end": 2156.27, "text": " a thousand percent to be electric?" }, { "start": 2156.27, "end": 2158.99, "text": " No, just in case, et cetera." }, { "start": 2158.99, "end": 2164.07, "text": " And so so, yeah, I, you know, I understand the level of caution as I" }, { "start": 2164.07, "end": 2168.99, "text": " understand that there hasn't been that much support, but still Tesla went all the way." }, { "start": 2168.99, "end": 2171.19, "text": " And here we are." }, { "start": 2171.19, "end": 2173.51, "text": " Now, a positive news that I read this summer." }, { "start": 2173.51, "end": 2178.75, "text": " Yes, BMW has sold more electric vehicles in Europe." }, { "start": 2178.75, "end": 2181.63, "text": " I think that Tesla, which was probably the one that was selling the most." }, { "start": 2181.63, "end": 2185.07, "text": " So it's not all, you know, very good." }, { "start": 2185.07, "end": 2187.67, "text": " But very good." }, { "start": 2187.67, "end": 2188.67, "text": " Yeah, yeah." }, { "start": 2188.67, "end": 2191.75, "text": " And I think there are also the countries here in the north, of course," }, { "start": 2191.75, "end": 2196.59, "text": " who don't have a car industry like I can't remember was it Sweden?" }, { "start": 2196.59, "end": 2204.51, "text": " I think it was Sweden who sells now more electric cars than old combustion cars." }, { "start": 2204.51, "end": 2210.83, "text": " And of course, China as well sells now more electric cars than old cars." }, { "start": 2210.83, "end": 2213.67, "text": " So that is a major change, right?" }, { "start": 2213.67, "end": 2214.79, "text": " And it's so fast." }, { "start": 2214.79, "end": 2217.79, "text": " It is fantastic." }, { "start": 2217.79, "end": 2218.71, "text": " I think it's Norway." }, { "start": 2218.71, "end": 2225.47, "text": " The example that you refer to, and yes, because it's it's all electric." }, { "start": 2225.47, "end": 2227.67, "text": " Why? Because they gave a lot of incentives." }, { "start": 2227.67, "end": 2231.31, "text": " So, you know, pay taxes, you can go and park in the city, you know," }, { "start": 2231.31, "end": 2233.83, "text": " their registration taxes much reduced." }, { "start": 2234.39, "end": 2238.87, "text": " And that meant that then all the car manufacturers are starting to sell" }, { "start": 2238.87, "end": 2240.51, "text": " electric vehicles in Norway." }, { "start": 2240.51, "end": 2246.79, "text": " So it is true that, you know, that that incentive, you know, has created, you know," }, { "start": 2246.79, "end": 2249.63, "text": " yeah, and they did it in 10 years." }, { "start": 2249.63, "end": 2252.07, "text": " 10 years is not so." }, { "start": 2252.07, "end": 2255.11, "text": " So the transformation in the car industry can go really fast." }, { "start": 2255.11, "end": 2259.27, "text": " All the sectors, it takes longer because of the stock, you know," }, { "start": 2259.27, "end": 2262.79, "text": " a replacement that in the industry it has." }, { "start": 2263.19, "end": 2268.31, "text": " But I can say as a user of an electric vehicle, you know, and every time I talk" }, { "start": 2268.31, "end": 2272.07, "text": " about it, I go to the app of my car and call there." }, { "start": 2272.07, "end": 2277.83, "text": " I have only, you know, since March, you know, it cost me the energy 200 francs." }, { "start": 2277.83, "end": 2283.59, "text": " Yeah, if I would have had an internal combustion engine, it would have been 800." }, { "start": 2283.59, "end": 2288.19, "text": " So, yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree with you here." }, { "start": 2288.19, "end": 2292.39, "text": " And I have an electric car, I think for the last six years." }, { "start": 2292.39, "end": 2295.11, "text": " And it's been a dream." }, { "start": 2295.11, "end": 2297.71, "text": " It starts with a community first." }, { "start": 2297.71, "end": 2301.87, "text": " I remember we were driving over the Alps and there were a few stations where you" }, { "start": 2301.87, "end": 2306.75, "text": " could do quick charging and people were starting talking to each other." }, { "start": 2306.75, "end": 2311.59, "text": " So all the new things create also new kind of communities." }, { "start": 2311.59, "end": 2317.99, "text": " Let's go because you talked about it now, the role of technology." }, { "start": 2319.39, "end": 2328.95, "text": " How strong do you see all these emerging technologies?" }, { "start": 2328.95, "end": 2331.31, "text": " I mean, AI, blockchain, etc." }, { "start": 2331.31, "end": 2335.31, "text": " They play already a major role." }, { "start": 2335.31, "end": 2342.03, "text": " What's your idea of how it will work out in the next 10 years?" }, { "start": 2342.03, "end": 2347.07, "text": " So obviously, I'm a little bit worried of the amount of energy they consume." }, { "start": 2347.43, "end": 2353.03, "text": " And so I think the industry needs to, you know, to rationalize the use of AI" }, { "start": 2353.03, "end": 2358.35, "text": " for whatever is important and accelerate the decarbonization," }, { "start": 2358.35, "end": 2362.43, "text": " the efficiency of it and the decarbonization, because, you know," }, { "start": 2362.43, "end": 2366.63, "text": " the industry has done great progress and suddenly in a year or two," }, { "start": 2366.63, "end": 2369.79, "text": " it's a mission to skyrocket in and it's a disaster." }, { "start": 2369.79, "end": 2371.95, "text": " So there's a lot to be done there." }, { "start": 2371.95, "end": 2375.71, "text": " But I think everything that has to do with digitalization" }, { "start": 2375.71, "end": 2382.79, "text": " and the power of AI to track emissions and also to disseminate education" }, { "start": 2382.79, "end": 2388.75, "text": " and ways of solving problems is so powerful and so important for climate." }, { "start": 2388.75, "end": 2397.79, "text": " And I'm quite impressed on how much efficiencies can be achieved by companies" }, { "start": 2397.79, "end": 2400.91, "text": " when using these instruments to manage their stock," }, { "start": 2400.91, "end": 2409.03, "text": " to manage them, you know, how they use transportation to manage the different routes." }, { "start": 2409.03, "end": 2415.31, "text": " And so what is important that in all of them, they integrate sustainability elements" }, { "start": 2415.31, "end": 2420.35, "text": " and ways to reduce emissions, because, for example," }, { "start": 2420.35, "end": 2424.27, "text": " Google can give you the route where you will consume less energy." }, { "start": 2424.27, "end": 2425.11, "text": " Right?" }, { "start": 2425.11, "end": 2430.15, "text": " It is, yeah, I think there's plenty of opportunities." }, { "start": 2430.67, "end": 2434.79, "text": " Which are wind-winds, you know, reduce emissions, reduce costs, as I said before." }, { "start": 2434.79, "end": 2440.07, "text": " But yeah, be careful with how AI is deployed, you know," }, { "start": 2440.07, "end": 2442.63, "text": " and so that it is deployed for the right uses," }, { "start": 2442.63, "end": 2445.55, "text": " because it requires a lot of energy as well." }, { "start": 2445.55, "end": 2454.71, "text": " And in the spirit of collaboration, we have New York Climate Week this month" }, { "start": 2454.71, "end": 2458.75, "text": " and COP29 in Baku is coming up, I think in November." }, { "start": 2459.59, "end": 2462.43, "text": " What are your expectations?" }, { "start": 2462.43, "end": 2469.51, "text": " Well, I think Climate Week is going to be quite interesting." }, { "start": 2469.51, "end": 2475.91, "text": " The climate journey is very influenced by what is happening in the governments," }, { "start": 2475.91, "end": 2477.47, "text": " the politics of the countries." }, { "start": 2477.47, "end": 2482.23, "text": " And so we were a little bit afraid with the European Union elections" }, { "start": 2482.23, "end": 2486.83, "text": " and then with France, and I think things more or less are, you know, coming to terms." }, { "start": 2487.51, "end": 2491.63, "text": " And we're very hopeful on what we've seen in the UK with the new government" }, { "start": 2491.63, "end": 2493.27, "text": " and increased ambition." }, { "start": 2493.27, "end": 2499.99, "text": " And I'm convinced that also Brazil is going to do a fantastic job for setting an NDC" }, { "start": 2499.99, "end": 2501.47, "text": " at the ambition level." }, { "start": 2501.47, "end": 2504.79, "text": " The NDC is the national emission reduction plan" }, { "start": 2504.79, "end": 2508.55, "text": " that the countries need to present for next spring." }, { "start": 2508.55, "end": 2513.27, "text": " And I think they will going to set the example that's presented in a very ambitious one." }, { "start": 2514.19, "end": 2521.19, "text": " So I think for Baku, it's, yeah, it's let's see what we can achieve." }, { "start": 2521.19, "end": 2527.11, "text": " But the reality is that Baku was not even on the line to prepare the conference." }, { "start": 2527.11, "end": 2529.51, "text": " And it was a political compromise to do it there." }, { "start": 2529.51, "end": 2536.03, "text": " So I feel for the Baku team, that's why they need to organize this big, big conference" }, { "start": 2536.03, "end": 2540.07, "text": " when they have not been in the past so active in doing so." }, { "start": 2540.51, "end": 2545.99, "text": " And also because we have the elections in the US right at the time of COP 29." }, { "start": 2545.99, "end": 2551.35, "text": " So for political reasons, this COP, I think, is going to be, you know, not, you know, as" }, { "start": 2551.35, "end": 2556.11, "text": " as as strong as last year in Dubai." }, { "start": 2556.11, "end": 2560.75, "text": " And next year, the COP 30 is really important because that's when the new NDCs are presented." }, { "start": 2560.75, "end": 2566.11, "text": " And now what we need is that those national plans are more ambitious," }, { "start": 2566.11, "end": 2569.99, "text": " that we reduce the gap that exists between the current NDCs." }, { "start": 2570.71, "end": 2572.07, "text": " And the 1.5 gold." }, { "start": 2572.07, "end": 2579.15, "text": " And that also those NDCs are more mature because this is the second or third time that countries do them." }, { "start": 2579.15, "end": 2585.19, "text": " And so they need to include a policy framework that will go along that ambition." }, { "start": 2585.19, "end": 2593.59, "text": " So because we need rules, policies, incentives, carbon pricing, removal of subsidies to fossil fuel." }, { "start": 2594.27, "end": 2600.75, "text": " A very clear introduction on phase out dates for fossil fuel uses in different sectors" }, { "start": 2600.75, "end": 2603.23, "text": " in a way that we have not seen before." }, { "start": 2603.23, "end": 2607.59, "text": " So I think the policymakers need to learn and be more ambitious." }, { "start": 2607.59, "end": 2609.55, "text": " And the business community is going to push for that." }, { "start": 2609.55, "end": 2614.39, "text": " And through women business and our partners, we're going to push for NDCs to be investable" }, { "start": 2614.39, "end": 2617.75, "text": " for the policy framework to contain certain elements." }, { "start": 2617.75, "end": 2622.39, "text": " Importantly, as I repeat, fossil fuel phase out dates." }, { "start": 2622.75, "end": 2630.27, "text": " So it is not tomorrow, but from now until 2040, 2050, there needs to be planned to replace those fossil fuels" }, { "start": 2630.27, "end": 2634.27, "text": " by renewable energy, energy efficient measures, etc." }, { "start": 2634.27, "end": 2638.71, "text": " And the halting and reversing deforestation and forest degradation." }, { "start": 2638.71, "end": 2646.15, "text": " This is also a place we tend to talk more about energy, but land represents 30% of emissions." }, { "start": 2646.15, "end": 2648.63, "text": " It's only going to increase if we don't tackle it." }, { "start": 2649.27, "end": 2652.47, "text": " We need to stop deforestation and degradation." }, { "start": 2652.47, "end": 2656.67, "text": " And then we need to also reinvest in nature." }, { "start": 2656.67, "end": 2659.47, "text": " It is a very important part of the work we do as well." }, { "start": 2659.47, "end": 2664.67, "text": " I'm grateful that you've mentioned the fossil fuel dependency." }, { "start": 2664.67, "end": 2672.95, "text": " Because we have, of course, extreme numbers are existing." }, { "start": 2672.95, "end": 2678.59, "text": " You have on the one side the profit in the oil industry." }, { "start": 2678.59, "end": 2681.03, "text": " It's the profit of a lifetime." }, { "start": 2681.03, "end": 2683.43, "text": " I mean, they have a very good time." }, { "start": 2683.43, "end": 2695.79, "text": " You have on the other hand, the IEA who said years ago, we shouldn't exploit any more fossil fuels." }, { "start": 2695.79, "end": 2698.43, "text": " We should leave the earth alone." }, { "start": 2699.19, "end": 2707.31, "text": " And in between are many organizations, companies, governments who try their best." }, { "start": 2707.31, "end": 2711.67, "text": " What is your approach?" }, { "start": 2711.67, "end": 2717.99, "text": " So last year we created this campaign, which is called fossil to clean." }, { "start": 2717.99, "end": 2722.79, "text": " The idea that we need to transition from fossil to clean." }, { "start": 2722.79, "end": 2727.79, "text": " If we want to address climate change, we need to stop burning fossil fuels." }, { "start": 2727.79, "end": 2733.79, "text": " And because we are so dependent on them, we need to create a pathway to reduce that dependency" }, { "start": 2733.79, "end": 2735.51, "text": " and to replace it by fossil fuels." }, { "start": 2735.51, "end": 2742.15, "text": " A sister campaign was the tripling of renewables and doubling of energy efficiency," }, { "start": 2742.15, "end": 2743.99, "text": " which was really successful as well." }, { "start": 2743.99, "end": 2748.51, "text": " And we are a partner of which meant, OK, we need to triple renewable, double energy efficiency." }, { "start": 2748.51, "end": 2753.83, "text": " And I think they're talking about multiplying by five, I think, energy storage," }, { "start": 2753.83, "end": 2755.31, "text": " so which is new." }, { "start": 2755.31, "end": 2758.99, "text": " This is being developed as we speak, really interesting developments there." }, { "start": 2758.99, "end": 2763.15, "text": " So in our perspective, we say, OK, well, this is great." }, { "start": 2763.15, "end": 2765.19, "text": " But you know, what does it mean for companies?" }, { "start": 2765.19, "end": 2767.91, "text": " So then we went to the different companies." }, { "start": 2767.91, "end": 2772.55, "text": " So if you are a company that is demanding fossil fuels," }, { "start": 2772.55, "end": 2777.39, "text": " you need to create a plan on how you're going to stop consuming them" }, { "start": 2777.39, "end": 2780.27, "text": " and replace them by clean sources from now until 2040." }, { "start": 2781.51, "end": 2785.35, "text": " If you are an investor, you need to change your investment ratios." }, { "start": 2785.35, "end": 2787.91, "text": " Now it is likely now we have increased." }, { "start": 2787.91, "end": 2791.43, "text": " It used to be much more investment in fossil fuel and renewables." }, { "start": 2791.43, "end": 2793.47, "text": " Then it was one to one." }, { "start": 2793.47, "end": 2795.43, "text": " And now I think last year was two to one." }, { "start": 2795.43, "end": 2799.51, "text": " So we invest two million on renewables and one on fossil fuel." }, { "start": 2799.51, "end": 2800.91, "text": " OK, I mean, that proportion." }, { "start": 2800.91, "end": 2806.03, "text": " OK, well, it needs to be according to I think it is four to one." }, { "start": 2806.03, "end": 2810.35, "text": " OK, for in clean energy, nothing" }, { "start": 2810.35, "end": 2813.59, "text": " including energy efficiency, including energy efficiency, I think it's 71." }, { "start": 2813.59, "end": 2817.71, "text": " In clean energy, four and one, because you need to maintain" }, { "start": 2817.71, "end": 2821.31, "text": " some of the investments or for operational purposes" }, { "start": 2821.31, "end": 2824.95, "text": " of the existing fossil fuel in asset." }, { "start": 2824.95, "end": 2828.47, "text": " And then if you are a fossil fuel producer," }, { "start": 2828.47, "end": 2831.87, "text": " and this is the toughest part, you also need to transition" }, { "start": 2831.87, "end": 2833.75, "text": " from fossil to clean." }, { "start": 2833.75, "end": 2837.99, "text": " So you need to stop new exploration, that for sure." }, { "start": 2838.55, "end": 2842.47, "text": " And then you need to create a plan on how you're going to be facing out" }, { "start": 2842.47, "end": 2845.67, "text": " your plans and replacing the renewables of whatever" }, { "start": 2845.67, "end": 2847.55, "text": " as an industry you want to." }, { "start": 2847.55, "end": 2852.83, "text": " Obviously, you know, there was no oil and gas company that signed our campaign." }, { "start": 2852.83, "end": 2857.47, "text": " But we have quite a lot of companies that did sign from the demand side." }, { "start": 2857.47, "end": 2862.27, "text": " And I think many support from the investor side that we focus more on that demand side" }, { "start": 2862.27, "end": 2866.23, "text": " because at the end, if the demand decreases, then production will decrease." }, { "start": 2866.47, "end": 2869.59, "text": " But on the other hand, that's not enough." }, { "start": 2869.59, "end": 2874.15, "text": " Because what I'm very worried is that the oil and gas industry" }, { "start": 2874.15, "end": 2877.91, "text": " is investing in Africa and in developing countries." }, { "start": 2877.91, "end": 2883.47, "text": " Large amount of infrastructure that will lock the country to fossil fuel." }, { "start": 2883.47, "end": 2887.43, "text": " You know, if we want to help Africa, we need to invest in clean energy." }, { "start": 2887.43, "end": 2893.83, "text": " We don't want to to invest in an energy source that will be banned at some point." }, { "start": 2896.11, "end": 2898.99, "text": " Yeah, well, hoping for the governments to do something about it." }, { "start": 2898.99, "end": 2902.35, "text": " I don't know if you're in charge, if you've been elected for a couple of years" }, { "start": 2902.35, "end": 2903.51, "text": " or four or five years." }, { "start": 2903.51, "end": 2907.79, "text": " I'm yeah, I was when you were talking, I thought." }, { "start": 2907.79, "end": 2912.35, "text": " What would it help the planet?" }, { "start": 2912.35, "end": 2918.07, "text": " Let's say if we declare a kind of emergency for the planet." }, { "start": 2918.07, "end": 2920.07, "text": " And who could do that?" }, { "start": 2920.07, "end": 2923.19, "text": " Or is it an illusion?" }, { "start": 2923.19, "end": 2927.23, "text": " No, but I think, you know, inevitably, you know, if we continue to not tackle" }, { "start": 2927.23, "end": 2929.63, "text": " climate change, temperatures continue to rise." }, { "start": 2929.63, "end": 2935.47, "text": " There's going to be the amount of of extreme weather events is going to increase." }, { "start": 2935.47, "end": 2938.63, "text": " The economic losses are going to skyrocket." }, { "start": 2938.63, "end": 2942.67, "text": " And there's going to be a point when the government will say, well," }, { "start": 2942.67, "end": 2948.47, "text": " this is like a global emergency like a COVID emergency, which requires" }, { "start": 2949.03, "end": 2954.27, "text": " drastic action because in solving climate change, you know, it's about," }, { "start": 2954.27, "end": 2958.55, "text": " you know, putting more money on the table as well, because the technologies are" }, { "start": 2958.55, "end": 2960.79, "text": " available, just that some are very expensive." }, { "start": 2960.79, "end": 2966.59, "text": " And so when we saw COVID, there were some very strong restrictions" }, { "start": 2966.59, "end": 2969.07, "text": " and a lot of money that was put to the development of solutions." }, { "start": 2969.07, "end": 2973.87, "text": " So so I can I can I can envisage that in the future this can happen." }, { "start": 2973.87, "end": 2975.87, "text": " It would be very traumatic and dramatic." }, { "start": 2975.87, "end": 2981.15, "text": " That's why we need to work so so that we can transition in the most" }, { "start": 2981.15, "end": 2984.35, "text": " orderly way as possible to that." }, { "start": 2984.35, "end": 2989.31, "text": " But I do think that it could be inevitable at some point." }, { "start": 2989.31, "end": 2993.99, "text": " The other thing that we haven't spoken is about the need to capture CO2 as well." }, { "start": 2993.99, "end": 2995.87, "text": " Yeah. So now the emergency is to capture." }, { "start": 2995.87, "end": 2999.47, "text": " Of course, you can forest the capture in the forest and we are pushing for that." }, { "start": 2999.47, "end": 3003.95, "text": " But it has some limitations in terms of leakage and permanence, etc." }, { "start": 3004.31, "end": 3006.15, "text": " And then there is some technological" }, { "start": 3006.15, "end": 3010.83, "text": " development in that sense that are very expensive." }, { "start": 3010.83, "end": 3015.43, "text": " But I can envisage in the future that it will be mandatory to" }, { "start": 3015.43, "end": 3021.39, "text": " to also reduce and remove emissions from the atmosphere." }, { "start": 3021.39, "end": 3024.43, "text": " And in the IPCC models, that's what it says." }, { "start": 3024.43, "end": 3027.99, "text": " You know, at the end, if you see the graphs, everything that is underneath" }, { "start": 3027.99, "end": 3029.23, "text": " is it is about removal." }, { "start": 3029.23, "end": 3032.51, "text": " So and nature can do certain parts, but we will need others." }, { "start": 3033.51, "end": 3036.75, "text": " So I think that that is inevitable." }, { "start": 3036.75, "end": 3042.11, "text": " It's just it's all about timing, would be in the next 10 years, 20 years." }, { "start": 3042.11, "end": 3045.39, "text": " But for sure, that we will see before 2050." }, { "start": 3045.39, "end": 3050.59, "text": " Yeah. What strikes me here, Maria, you work with the most" }, { "start": 3050.59, "end": 3057.47, "text": " influential organizations and companies like Mkhani's G-Fans," }, { "start": 3057.47, "end": 3061.15, "text": " the World Economic Forum, UNICEF, AFRAC, World Bank and so on." }, { "start": 3061.47, "end": 3064.59, "text": " So it's the who is who in the whole climate business." }, { "start": 3064.59, "end": 3067.67, "text": " But then there is the effort." }, { "start": 3067.67, "end": 3070.19, "text": " We have the results." }, { "start": 3070.19, "end": 3071.99, "text": " We see change." }, { "start": 3071.99, "end": 3074.99, "text": " We have many good examples, as we just heard from you." }, { "start": 3074.99, "end": 3081.51, "text": " And yet they don't find their way into the mainstream media." }, { "start": 3081.51, "end": 3090.35, "text": " Yes, selective into probably Bloomberg Time Magazine and Fortune 500." }, { "start": 3091.35, "end": 3097.35, "text": " But worse, they hardly find their way." }, { "start": 3097.35, "end": 3100.59, "text": " To the average citizen." }, { "start": 3100.59, "end": 3105.71, "text": " I think you're touching on a very relevant and sensitive topic." }, { "start": 3105.71, "end": 3108.87, "text": " Yeah, because" }, { "start": 3108.87, "end": 3113.87, "text": " unfortunately, some of the headlines, you know, focus more on greenwashing" }, { "start": 3113.87, "end": 3118.15, "text": " you know, of companies than actually on what companies are doing." }, { "start": 3119.07, "end": 3121.39, "text": " And I think we need to change that because" }, { "start": 3121.39, "end": 3127.71, "text": " in, you know, it is not easy what we're trying to do here, right?" }, { "start": 3127.71, "end": 3132.43, "text": " What the companies are trying to do, you know, to map all their supply chains," }, { "start": 3132.43, "end": 3137.67, "text": " emissions, when they don't even know the names of the suppliers sometimes." }, { "start": 3137.67, "end": 3142.11, "text": " Or are they located to invest in technologies that are completely" }, { "start": 3142.11, "end": 3147.43, "text": " new, that can succeed or not to invest in technologies that are not competitive," }, { "start": 3147.43, "end": 3150.11, "text": " but that you know that you need to invest so that you can learn." }, { "start": 3150.11, "end": 3151.71, "text": " So you're going to lose a lot of money." }, { "start": 3151.71, "end": 3157.07, "text": " You go to the board and convince your board to invest or to set that target" }, { "start": 3157.07, "end": 3160.11, "text": " when you don't know the rules on how you're going to report on it." }, { "start": 3160.11, "end": 3165.51, "text": " So so I think the level of ambition of many companies and" }, { "start": 3165.51, "end": 3171.23, "text": " and the level of, you know, trust in the system has to be very high." }, { "start": 3171.23, "end": 3174.55, "text": " But then then in return, you know, some of these companies are accused," }, { "start": 3174.55, "end": 3181.07, "text": " I don't know, with false allegations or other times good allegations, right?" }, { "start": 3181.07, "end": 3185.11, "text": " So I tend to say that, you know, it would be good if journalism," }, { "start": 3185.11, "end": 3188.27, "text": " you know, instead of focusing on those that are doing something" }, { "start": 3188.27, "end": 3192.11, "text": " but not doing it perfectly, you know, instead of focusing on those" }, { "start": 3192.11, "end": 3196.75, "text": " that have big names and big brand names, OK, which are trying to say no." }, { "start": 3196.75, "end": 3201.19, "text": " That's that they are honestly trying to do something good" }, { "start": 3201.71, "end": 3204.91, "text": " that might not be perfect or not of the liking of some." }, { "start": 3204.91, "end": 3208.91, "text": " Instead of that, why don't we focus on putting pressure on the laggards" }, { "start": 3208.91, "end": 3210.87, "text": " on those that are not doing anything?" }, { "start": 3210.87, "end": 3214.59, "text": " Because in our network, we have these 70,000 companies, OK?" }, { "start": 3214.59, "end": 3218.31, "text": " There are millions of companies that are not doing anything" }, { "start": 3218.31, "end": 3220.87, "text": " or maybe they are doing things that we don't know, right?" }, { "start": 3220.87, "end": 3224.95, "text": " I think the emphasis needs to be on those that are not taking responsibility" }, { "start": 3224.95, "end": 3228.39, "text": " and doing what is required for them, you know, at this moment in time." }, { "start": 3229.27, "end": 3235.71, "text": " If we look beyond 2030 regarding your work and the work of all your partners," }, { "start": 3235.71, "end": 3239.95, "text": " who else needs to be brought into the boat?" }, { "start": 3239.95, "end": 3245.27, "text": " And where does it need more ambition and action?" }, { "start": 3245.27, "end": 3248.15, "text": " Well, I think." }, { "start": 3248.15, "end": 3251.07, "text": " There are many boats to be brought." }, { "start": 3251.07, "end": 3255.35, "text": " And there are many many boats being also quite filled with people." }, { "start": 3256.03, "end": 3261.19, "text": " And I find that it would be good to have more alignment across the different boats" }, { "start": 3261.19, "end": 3266.79, "text": " so that we go in the same direction, because also sometimes the efforts" }, { "start": 3266.79, "end": 3272.35, "text": " are quite fragmented as to to bring a coherence in the different systems." }, { "start": 3272.35, "end": 3276.59, "text": " For example, central government and local governments need to be more aligned." }, { "start": 3276.59, "end": 3279.83, "text": " Unfortunately, sometimes if there are different parties, they are not so aligned." }, { "start": 3279.83, "end": 3282.11, "text": " I think we just also again, elevate ourselves." }, { "start": 3282.11, "end": 3283.59, "text": " What is the bigger bigger good?" }, { "start": 3283.59, "end": 3287.35, "text": " This is good for every political party, every ideology." }, { "start": 3287.35, "end": 3288.79, "text": " You know, this is good for your people." }, { "start": 3288.79, "end": 3293.51, "text": " And I think, you know, as you said, this is very complex." }, { "start": 3293.51, "end": 3297.79, "text": " You know, even those companies that invest a lot of time, knowledge, etc." }, { "start": 3297.79, "end": 3301.27, "text": " They still have to the to the end of knowledge, right?" }, { "start": 3301.27, "end": 3303.31, "text": " They are in every day." }, { "start": 3303.31, "end": 3308.39, "text": " And so let's let's take that approach and learn." }, { "start": 3308.39, "end": 3312.99, "text": " And and as as communicators, you know, as as the ones that we are" }, { "start": 3312.99, "end": 3316.63, "text": " carrying the message, let's also simplify the message so that" }, { "start": 3316.63, "end": 3321.71, "text": " people can understand the complexity in ways that they can understand." }, { "start": 3321.71, "end": 3329.75, "text": " And so more alignment, more ambition, more clear rules." }, { "start": 3329.75, "end": 3333.19, "text": " I think those are key ingredients for success." }, { "start": 3333.19, "end": 3339.43, "text": " Let's say one of those many companies out there" }, { "start": 3341.03, "end": 3344.83, "text": " have listened to that now, but they haven't been involved in anything." }, { "start": 3344.83, "end": 3348.43, "text": " But they do know that they have to in the near future." }, { "start": 3348.43, "end": 3352.55, "text": " What what's your advice should be their first steps?" }, { "start": 3352.55, "end": 3354.71, "text": " Let's say it's a small to medium sized company." }, { "start": 3354.71, "end": 3357.71, "text": " Well, go to the SME climate." }, { "start": 3357.71, "end": 3360.11, "text": " It's very upgraded." }, { "start": 3360.11, "end": 3361.31, "text": " Sorry for the publicity." }, { "start": 3361.31, "end": 3365.11, "text": " Seriously. So as an SME, you know, first, you know," }, { "start": 3365.11, "end": 3368.71, "text": " trying to measure your emissions, there's plenty of calculators out there." }, { "start": 3369.67, "end": 3372.99, "text": " Now, there are many education tools that will help you, you know," }, { "start": 3372.99, "end": 3375.31, "text": " get the knowledge to understand what you need to do." }, { "start": 3375.31, "end": 3380.99, "text": " Then talk to your peers and talk to your clients to see what they need" }, { "start": 3380.99, "end": 3386.71, "text": " and to adapt in and do the numbers because often some of these investments" }, { "start": 3386.71, "end": 3390.23, "text": " are, you know, have a very positive feedback period." }, { "start": 3390.23, "end": 3396.55, "text": " I think once you do that, then raise your voice, you know, talk to others," }, { "start": 3396.67, "end": 3400.55, "text": " explain and become an advocate and mobilize others to do the same." }, { "start": 3400.55, "end": 3405.27, "text": " Because as I said before, it's not about one company doing something." }, { "start": 3405.27, "end": 3410.71, "text": " We need millions of companies and we need to have some peer pressure" }, { "start": 3410.71, "end": 3414.19, "text": " and peer support in the journey." }, { "start": 3414.19, "end": 3420.59, "text": " And then speak, you know, and present your case" }, { "start": 3420.59, "end": 3425.35, "text": " and so that others can learn and be motivated to act." }, { "start": 3426.35, "end": 3430.91, "text": " You quite rightly said, Maria, we need millions of companies to join." }, { "start": 3430.91, "end": 3437.03, "text": " So what does it mean for your road ahead in the short term" }, { "start": 3437.03, "end": 3439.19, "text": " as well as in the long term?" }, { "start": 3439.19, "end": 3442.59, "text": " Yes. So I think." }, { "start": 3442.59, "end": 3446.19, "text": " It's going to be." }, { "start": 3446.19, "end": 3448.47, "text": " Yeah, it's going to be a bumpy road." }, { "start": 3448.47, "end": 3451.63, "text": " But definitely, I think the direction of travel is very clear." }, { "start": 3451.63, "end": 3455.75, "text": " So so I think they compromise the agreement, the previous agreement." }, { "start": 3456.31, "end": 3459.67, "text": " And the subsequent steps in the in that direction of" }, { "start": 3459.67, "end": 3464.63, "text": " of keeping temperature, you know, as close as possible to one point five." }, { "start": 3464.63, "end": 3468.15, "text": " And it's it's still very valid." }, { "start": 3468.15, "end": 3473.03, "text": " You know, we are seeing growth in terms of commitment of 100 percent growth" }, { "start": 3473.03, "end": 3474.63, "text": " every year." }, { "start": 3474.63, "end": 3479.11, "text": " Companies are being asked by regulators to report their emissions and to act upon them." }, { "start": 3479.11, "end": 3483.99, "text": " Companies that reduce their emissions are going to be valued more positively" }, { "start": 3483.99, "end": 3487.47, "text": " and will receive loans at better interest rates." }, { "start": 3487.47, "end": 3489.43, "text": " We have seen that this is already happening." }, { "start": 3489.43, "end": 3492.99, "text": " So I think the direction of travel is inevitable." }, { "start": 3492.99, "end": 3494.99, "text": " We're going in that direction." }, { "start": 3494.99, "end": 3498.11, "text": " The sooner companies join the both the better." }, { "start": 3498.11, "end": 3503.39, "text": " And that will then unlock an incredible wave of innovation and new business" }, { "start": 3503.39, "end": 3505.39, "text": " opportunity. OK." }, { "start": 3505.39, "end": 3507.75, "text": " So I say that there are three important" }, { "start": 3507.75, "end": 3511.83, "text": " message messages for the next few years." }, { "start": 3512.55, "end": 3518.51, "text": " One is responsibility, you know, every one of us and every business" }, { "start": 3518.51, "end": 3523.11, "text": " has the responsibility to do less harm to reduce emissions" }, { "start": 3523.11, "end": 3527.19, "text": " and and and to all the things also in relation to sustainability." }, { "start": 3527.19, "end": 3529.71, "text": " The second one is opportunity." }, { "start": 3529.71, "end": 3535.79, "text": " We are seeing the reduction of cost of renewable energy of electric vehicles" }, { "start": 3535.79, "end": 3537.79, "text": " of batteries and so on." }, { "start": 3537.79, "end": 3541.79, "text": " And the third one is the risk of not doing anything." }, { "start": 3541.79, "end": 3545.79, "text": " And the fourth one is the risk of not doing anything." }, { "start": 3545.79, "end": 3550.79, "text": " The risk of not doing anything is enormous." }, { "start": 3550.79, "end": 3554.79, "text": " The impact that this is going to have on your employees, on your families," }, { "start": 3554.79, "end": 3559.79, "text": " on the communities where you operate on migration, it's enormous." }, { "start": 3559.79, "end": 3566.79, "text": " And so so so we need to to do and to act responsibly now." }, { "start": 3566.79, "end": 3569.79, "text": " And don't wait because later is too late." }, { "start": 3569.79, "end": 3573.79, "text": " We need to act responsibly now." }, { "start": 3573.79, "end": 3579.79, "text": " I think on this note, I think I want to say thank you very much," }, { "start": 3579.79, "end": 3583.79, "text": " Maria, for this very, very interesting hour." }, { "start": 3583.79, "end": 3590.79, "text": " And please, if we haven't covered anything yet, what is close to your heart," }, { "start": 3590.79, "end": 3595.79, "text": " please use now the last minute or so to do this." }, { "start": 3595.79, "end": 3602.79, "text": " Otherwise, I'm very grateful if you do fantastic work with all your partners." }, { "start": 3602.79, "end": 3605.79, "text": " And we wish you much success." }, { "start": 3605.79, "end": 3610.79, "text": " Well, thanks to you and the fantastic podcast that you are creating." }, { "start": 3610.79, "end": 3618.79, "text": " And yeah, let's let's make the positive voice be heard to a widely across the world" }, { "start": 3618.79, "end": 3620.79, "text": " because we need everybody on this journey." }, { "start": 3620.79, "end": 3621.79, "text": " Thank you." }, { "start": 3621.79, "end": 3626.79, "text": " You've been listening to a special English edition of Degorsa Neustadt," }, { "start": 3626.79, "end": 3629.79, "text": " a German podcast series by Zabilla Barton," }, { "start": 3629.79, "end": 3634.79, "text": " in which she talks to pioneering leaders who are committed to making our world" }, { "start": 3634.79, "end": 3636.79, "text": " smarter, greener and fairer." }, { "start": 3636.79, "end": 3642.79, "text": " For more information, please visit www.zabillabardon.com" }, { "start": 3642.79, "end": 3646.79, "text": " and the official site of the World Economic Forum." }, { "start": 3646.79, "end": 3651.79, "text": " [Music]" }, { "start": 3651.79, "end": 3654.37, "text": " (gentle music)" } ]