[
  {
    "start": 0.0,
    "end": 3.76,
    "text": " We can't be perfect in using this new language."
  },
  {
    "start": 3.76,
    "end": 5.6,
    "text": " It's a new economics language."
  },
  {
    "start": 5.6,
    "end": 8.28,
    "text": " In a way, we are rewriting economics."
  },
  {
    "start": 8.28,
    "end": 11.16,
    "text": " And it's not going to be done overnight."
  },
  {
    "start": 11.16,
    "end": 14.72,
    "text": " But some of these conversations are urgent."
  },
  {
    "start": 14.72,
    "end": 16.24,
    "text": " Climate is urgent."
  },
  {
    "start": 16.24,
    "end": 18.84,
    "text": " Climate change, the physical risks are now."
  },
  {
    "start": 18.84,
    "end": 21.2,
    "text": " The transition risks have started already"
  },
  {
    "start": 21.2,
    "end": 23.12,
    "text": " in jurisdictions like Europe, Canada,"
  },
  {
    "start": 23.12,
    "end": 25.72,
    "text": " many others that have decarbonation plans"
  },
  {
    "start": 25.72,
    "end": 27.88,
    "text": " that will be coming as negative"
  },
  {
    "start": 27.88,
    "end": 29.88,
    "text": " and positive incentives of companies."
  },
  {
    "start": 29.88,
    "end": 30.96,
    "text": " So this is happening."
  },
  {
    "start": 30.96,
    "end": 34.84,
    "text": " And therefore, we need to learn that language of climate together."
  },
  {
    "start": 34.84,
    "end": 39.28,
    "text": " Welcome to the special English edition of De Gorsa Neustadt,"
  },
  {
    "start": 39.28,
    "end": 42.28,
    "text": " a German podcast series by Zabilla Barth,"
  },
  {
    "start": 42.28,
    "end": 44.52,
    "text": " in which she talks to pioneering leaders"
  },
  {
    "start": 44.52,
    "end": 48.76,
    "text": " who, inspired by the World Economic Forum's Great Reset Initiative,"
  },
  {
    "start": 48.76,
    "end": 50.76,
    "text": " create revolutionary projects"
  },
  {
    "start": 50.76,
    "end": 55.28,
    "text": " that actually do make our world smarter, greener and fairer."
  },
  {
    "start": 58.84,
    "end": 61.44,
    "text": " I am delighted to welcome Emmanuel Faber,"
  },
  {
    "start": 61.44,
    "end": 64.92,
    "text": " the chair of the International Sustainability Standards Board,"
  },
  {
    "start": 64.92,
    "end": 68.48,
    "text": " ISSB, a pioneering entity shaping the future"
  },
  {
    "start": 68.48,
    "end": 71.92,
    "text": " of sustainable finance and reporting worldwide."
  },
  {
    "start": 71.92,
    "end": 74.36,
    "text": " He's a prominent figure in the business world,"
  },
  {
    "start": 74.36,
    "end": 76.52,
    "text": " renowned for his visionary leadership"
  },
  {
    "start": 76.52,
    "end": 79.12,
    "text": " and commitment to sustainability."
  },
  {
    "start": 79.12,
    "end": 81.72,
    "text": " With a distinguished career spanning decades,"
  },
  {
    "start": 81.72,
    "end": 83.84,
    "text": " he has held key executive roles,"
  },
  {
    "start": 83.84,
    "end": 87.04,
    "text": " including CEO and chairman of Danen,"
  },
  {
    "start": 87.04,
    "end": 90.8,
    "text": " one of the world's leading food and beverage companies."
  },
  {
    "start": 90.8,
    "end": 93.24,
    "text": " Under his stewardship,"
  },
  {
    "start": 93.24,
    "end": 98.04,
    "text": " the company became a global leader in corporate sustainability,"
  },
  {
    "start": 98.04,
    "end": 101.04,
    "text": " pioneering initiatives to integrate environmental"
  },
  {
    "start": 101.04,
    "end": 105.88,
    "text": " and social responsibility into its core business strategies."
  },
  {
    "start": 105.88,
    "end": 109.76,
    "text": " His contributions have earned him widespread recognition,"
  },
  {
    "start": 109.76,
    "end": 113.88,
    "text": " including being named one of the world's 50 greatest leaders"
  },
  {
    "start": 113.88,
    "end": 116.32,
    "text": " by Fortune magazine."
  },
  {
    "start": 116.32,
    "end": 119.48,
    "text": " Today, we have the privilege of delving into his insights,"
  },
  {
    "start": 119.48,
    "end": 122.68,
    "text": " exploring his role as chair of the ISSB,"
  },
  {
    "start": 122.68,
    "end": 126.2,
    "text": " a groundbreaking institution committed to developing"
  },
  {
    "start": 126.2,
    "end": 130.28,
    "text": " globally consistent sustainability disclosure standards."
  },
  {
    "start": 130.28,
    "end": 134.8,
    "text": " With endorsements from the G7, G20, United Nations,"
  },
  {
    "start": 134.8,
    "end": 137.48,
    "text": " Central Bank Governors, World Bank"
  },
  {
    "start": 137.48,
    "end": 141.8,
    "text": " and International Organization of Securities Commissions,"
  },
  {
    "start": 141.8,
    "end": 145.88,
    "text": " the ISSB is at the forefront of standard-setting efforts,"
  },
  {
    "start": 145.88,
    "end": 150.12,
    "text": " aiming to enhance transparency, accountability"
  },
  {
    "start": 150.12,
    "end": 152.72,
    "text": " and trust in the financial market."
  },
  {
    "start": 152.72,
    "end": 157.04,
    "text": " It's spearheading initiatives to revolutionize sustainability"
  },
  {
    "start": 157.04,
    "end": 161.88,
    "text": " reporting, aligning corporate practices with ESG principles"
  },
  {
    "start": 161.88,
    "end": 165.88,
    "text": " to drive long-term value creation."
  },
  {
    "start": 165.88,
    "end": 168.88,
    "text": " Before we delve into our discussion,"
  },
  {
    "start": 168.88,
    "end": 173.16,
    "text": " Emmanuel Farber has recently reappointed as"
  },
  {
    "start": 173.16,
    "end": 177.24,
    "text": " the ISSB chair for a second term."
  },
  {
    "start": 177.24,
    "end": 179.76,
    "text": " So congratulations to you."
  },
  {
    "start": 179.76,
    "end": 183.76,
    "text": " And please tell us more about the ISSB"
  },
  {
    "start": 183.76,
    "end": 187.24,
    "text": " and why is it so significant?"
  },
  {
    "start": 187.24,
    "end": 194.28,
    "text": " Well, Cedir, thank you first of all for having me on your podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 194.28,
    "end": 196.96,
    "text": " And thank you for having that podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 196.96,
    "end": 199.64,
    "text": " I think it's an important platform."
  },
  {
    "start": 199.64,
    "end": 201.96,
    "text": " Thank you for all the very nice words."
  },
  {
    "start": 201.96,
    "end": 204.76,
    "text": " I don't know if they are obviously not all true"
  },
  {
    "start": 204.76,
    "end": 208.28,
    "text": " that you said about me."
  },
  {
    "start": 208.28,
    "end": 218.2,
    "text": " But let's say the ISSB, I think, started from the observation"
  },
  {
    "start": 218.2,
    "end": 223.96,
    "text": " over time that accounting counts many things that count,"
  },
  {
    "start": 223.96,
    "end": 226.8,
    "text": " but not everything that counts."
  },
  {
    "start": 226.8,
    "end": 234.4,
    "text": " And the development over the last 20 years of a flurry of ESG"
  },
  {
    "start": 234.4,
    "end": 241.28,
    "text": " metrics, ratings, colors, gradings, numbers, letters,"
  },
  {
    "start": 241.28,
    "end": 244.68,
    "text": " all over the place to the tune of now probably"
  },
  {
    "start": 244.68,
    "end": 251.68,
    "text": " about 500 of them is an evidence that companies, investors,"
  },
  {
    "start": 251.68,
    "end": 255.84,
    "text": " other stakeholders, were trying to express something"
  },
  {
    "start": 255.84,
    "end": 262.12,
    "text": " about the sustainability aspects of companies or ESG,"
  },
  {
    "start": 262.12,
    "end": 266.24,
    "text": " in other words, of companies without, frankly,"
  },
  {
    "start": 266.24,
    "end": 267.8,
    "text": " being successful in that."
  },
  {
    "start": 267.8,
    "end": 272.48,
    "text": " Because if that had been the case,"
  },
  {
    "start": 272.48,
    "end": 277.84,
    "text": " the correlation between the practice of companies"
  },
  {
    "start": 277.84,
    "end": 281.2,
    "text": " and their performance against these ESG indicators"
  },
  {
    "start": 281.2,
    "end": 285.44,
    "text": " and their valuation, the cost of capital,"
  },
  {
    "start": 285.44,
    "end": 287.8,
    "text": " the allocation of capital that they get from investors"
  },
  {
    "start": 287.8,
    "end": 292.68,
    "text": " and from banks would be significantly bigger and more"
  },
  {
    "start": 292.68,
    "end": 295.12,
    "text": " visible than it is today."
  },
  {
    "start": 295.12,
    "end": 303.08,
    "text": " And so what happened was that the market authorities,"
  },
  {
    "start": 303.08,
    "end": 306.52,
    "text": " multilaterals, the financial stability board,"
  },
  {
    "start": 306.52,
    "end": 310.08,
    "text": " the international organization of securities commissions,"
  },
  {
    "start": 310.08,
    "end": 312.96,
    "text": " which is a membership organization with all the SECs"
  },
  {
    "start": 312.96,
    "end": 319.2,
    "text": " of the world, 135 countries, the OECD, the IMF, the World Bank,"
  },
  {
    "start": 319.2,
    "end": 324.88,
    "text": " the UN, started to think about how"
  },
  {
    "start": 324.88,
    "end": 329.44,
    "text": " to create that system that would allow"
  },
  {
    "start": 329.44,
    "end": 335.24,
    "text": " to count what counts and is not yet in the accounting."
  },
  {
    "start": 335.24,
    "end": 337.64,
    "text": " They turned to the IFRS Foundation."
  },
  {
    "start": 337.64,
    "end": 341.04,
    "text": " The IFRS Foundation was created 25 years ago"
  },
  {
    "start": 341.04,
    "end": 345.32,
    "text": " to establish a global language, common language,"
  },
  {
    "start": 345.32,
    "end": 348.96,
    "text": " of accounting standards."
  },
  {
    "start": 348.96,
    "end": 351.8,
    "text": " The Foundation was pretty successful with now"
  },
  {
    "start": 351.8,
    "end": 357.8,
    "text": " about 144 countries that are using the IFRS accounting"
  },
  {
    "start": 357.8,
    "end": 366.36,
    "text": " standards with an equivalent for the US with the US gap."
  },
  {
    "start": 366.36,
    "end": 369.92,
    "text": " And so it was seen that probably because of that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 369.92,
    "end": 375.48,
    "text": " the IFRS Foundation would be well placed to play a role in that."
  },
  {
    "start": 375.48,
    "end": 378.76,
    "text": " And this is what led the trustees of the Foundation"
  },
  {
    "start": 378.76,
    "end": 383.92,
    "text": " to launch a huge public consultation in 2020,"
  },
  {
    "start": 383.92,
    "end": 388.0,
    "text": " asking the question whether some things needed to be done"
  },
  {
    "start": 388.0,
    "end": 393.04,
    "text": " and whether the Foundation was well placed to be part of it."
  },
  {
    "start": 393.04,
    "end": 394.96,
    "text": " The overwhelming answer was yes."
  },
  {
    "start": 394.96,
    "end": 397.52,
    "text": " And with that, there was an announcement"
  },
  {
    "start": 397.52,
    "end": 400.76,
    "text": " at COP26 of the creation of a sister board"
  },
  {
    "start": 400.76,
    "end": 402.96,
    "text": " to the International Accounting Standards Board"
  },
  {
    "start": 402.96,
    "end": 405.64,
    "text": " that had been doing accounting for 25 years"
  },
  {
    "start": 405.64,
    "end": 408.32,
    "text": " with the creation of the International Sustainability"
  },
  {
    "start": 408.32,
    "end": 414.56,
    "text": " Standards Board, which I have the pleasure and honor to lead"
  },
  {
    "start": 414.56,
    "end": 418.36,
    "text": " as part of the Foundation with that mission of creating"
  },
  {
    "start": 418.36,
    "end": 422.36,
    "text": " an accounting quasi-accounting language for sustainability."
  },
  {
    "start": 422.36,
    "end": 426.84,
    "text": " That would be cost effective for companies around the world"
  },
  {
    "start": 426.84,
    "end": 431.24,
    "text": " and decision useful because it would be comparable, global,"
  },
  {
    "start": 431.24,
    "end": 433.92,
    "text": " consistent, reliable, assurable."
  },
  {
    "start": 433.92,
    "end": 437.24,
    "text": " And therefore, banks and investors"
  },
  {
    "start": 437.24,
    "end": 440.28,
    "text": " would be able to make decisions about the cost of capital"
  },
  {
    "start": 440.28,
    "end": 442.92,
    "text": " that they want for companies that report on this."
  },
  {
    "start": 442.92,
    "end": 445.8,
    "text": " And therefore, we could count what really counts"
  },
  {
    "start": 445.8,
    "end": 446.8,
    "text": " at the end of the day."
  },
  {
    "start": 446.8,
    "end": 450.48,
    "text": " And in particular, as you said in your introduction,"
  },
  {
    "start": 450.48,
    "end": 455.92,
    "text": " this can be a very powerful way to ensure that capital markets"
  },
  {
    "start": 455.92,
    "end": 459.32,
    "text": " can do their part, their full part,"
  },
  {
    "start": 459.32,
    "end": 465.28,
    "text": " in allocating according to risks and opportunities on ESG"
  },
  {
    "start": 465.28,
    "end": 468.96,
    "text": " the capital to the transition to more resilient business"
  },
  {
    "start": 468.96,
    "end": 474.32,
    "text": " models and overall more resilient, inclusive macroeconomics"
  },
  {
    "start": 474.32,
    "end": 475.48,
    "text": " as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 475.48,
    "end": 477.0,
    "text": " Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 477.0,
    "end": 479.16,
    "text": " You mentioned Glasgow."
  },
  {
    "start": 479.16,
    "end": 483.92,
    "text": " The IFRS Foundation announced the formation"
  },
  {
    "start": 483.92,
    "end": 487.36,
    "text": " of the International Sustainability Standards Boards"
  },
  {
    "start": 487.36,
    "end": 493.48,
    "text": " in November 2021 at COP26 in Glasgow."
  },
  {
    "start": 493.48,
    "end": 496.52,
    "text": " So and it took you only two years"
  },
  {
    "start": 496.52,
    "end": 500.36,
    "text": " to manage to deliver two sustainability disclosure"
  },
  {
    "start": 500.36,
    "end": 501.6,
    "text": " standards."
  },
  {
    "start": 501.6,
    "end": 506.72,
    "text": " One is ISFRS1 and the other one is S2."
  },
  {
    "start": 506.72,
    "end": 509.68,
    "text": " The one is about general requirements"
  },
  {
    "start": 509.68,
    "end": 512.84,
    "text": " for disclosure of sustainability-related financial"
  },
  {
    "start": 512.84,
    "end": 518.6,
    "text": " information and S2 is about climate-related disclosures."
  },
  {
    "start": 518.6,
    "end": 524.08,
    "text": " So you did that, Emmanuel, in a very, very short time."
  },
  {
    "start": 524.08,
    "end": 526.08,
    "text": " Can you dive into it a bit?"
  },
  {
    "start": 526.08,
    "end": 527.68,
    "text": " Yeah, of course."
  },
  {
    "start": 527.68,
    "end": 531.04,
    "text": " It's actually less than that, in a way, and more."
  },
  {
    "start": 531.04,
    "end": 534.72,
    "text": " Less because the first meeting, because we"
  },
  {
    "start": 534.72,
    "end": 538.28,
    "text": " had to assemble the 14 independent members of the board,"
  },
  {
    "start": 538.28,
    "end": 539.72,
    "text": " which is a full-time board."
  },
  {
    "start": 539.72,
    "end": 544.88,
    "text": " I'm working full-time as 13 of my co-board members"
  },
  {
    "start": 544.88,
    "end": 548.68,
    "text": " and colleagues, which took several months."
  },
  {
    "start": 548.68,
    "end": 552.04,
    "text": " We consolidated three existing organizations"
  },
  {
    "start": 552.04,
    "end": 555.6,
    "text": " of standard setting to start reducing the alphabet soup."
  },
  {
    "start": 555.6,
    "end": 559.28,
    "text": " And we started our first meeting as a board,"
  },
  {
    "start": 559.28,
    "end": 563.96,
    "text": " happened in July '22."
  },
  {
    "start": 563.96,
    "end": 569.28,
    "text": " We published ISFRS1, which is the general requirement,"
  },
  {
    "start": 569.28,
    "end": 574.88,
    "text": " and ISFRS2, which is the specific climate requirement,"
  },
  {
    "start": 574.88,
    "end": 580.08,
    "text": " on June 23, so less than 12 months after."
  },
  {
    "start": 580.08,
    "end": 582.0,
    "text": " It's more because there had already"
  },
  {
    "start": 582.0,
    "end": 584.16,
    "text": " been a technical readiness working group"
  },
  {
    "start": 584.16,
    "end": 588.0,
    "text": " and a number of people working as soon as the decision,"
  },
  {
    "start": 588.0,
    "end": 590.56,
    "text": " in principle, was made before it was even"
  },
  {
    "start": 590.56,
    "end": 593.6,
    "text": " announced at Glasgow on what a prototype could be."
  },
  {
    "start": 593.6,
    "end": 597.68,
    "text": " And we've been building from TCFD and many other platforms"
  },
  {
    "start": 597.68,
    "end": 602.2,
    "text": " that-- a number of other platforms that already existed."
  },
  {
    "start": 602.2,
    "end": 607.52,
    "text": " But that's-- yeah, indeed, not even a year ago,"
  },
  {
    "start": 607.52,
    "end": 610.12,
    "text": " we issued those two standards."
  },
  {
    "start": 610.12,
    "end": 613.76,
    "text": " They were then endorsed by the International Organization"
  },
  {
    "start": 613.76,
    "end": 618.64,
    "text": " of Security's Commissions, IOSCO, in July."
  },
  {
    "start": 618.64,
    "end": 624.2,
    "text": " The Financial Stability Board viewed our climate standards"
  },
  {
    "start": 624.2,
    "end": 627.56,
    "text": " as the culmination of the task force"
  },
  {
    "start": 627.56,
    "end": 631.28,
    "text": " for climate-related financial disclosure, the TCFD,"
  },
  {
    "start": 631.28,
    "end": 637.12,
    "text": " that the FSB of the G20 had been piloting since 2015."
  },
  {
    "start": 637.12,
    "end": 641.92,
    "text": " And they retired the framework into our legacy work."
  },
  {
    "start": 641.92,
    "end": 647.88,
    "text": " And ever since, we have been active in starting the adoption"
  },
  {
    "start": 647.88,
    "end": 649.72,
    "text": " with jurisdictions, with companies,"
  },
  {
    "start": 649.72,
    "end": 651.64,
    "text": " with investors around the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 651.64,
    "end": 655.64,
    "text": " And also, we are in the process of now developing"
  },
  {
    "start": 655.64,
    "end": 659.4,
    "text": " the next stage of our agenda setting with more things"
  },
  {
    "start": 659.4,
    "end": 663.68,
    "text": " beyond climate and industry-based standards"
  },
  {
    "start": 663.68,
    "end": 668.72,
    "text": " elevated at their next level."
  },
  {
    "start": 668.72,
    "end": 674.84,
    "text": " And if I look into S1, this includes actually scanning"
  },
  {
    "start": 674.84,
    "end": 676.92,
    "text": " the whole value chain, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 676.92,
    "end": 679.56,
    "text": " Its risk opportunities and impacts."
  },
  {
    "start": 679.56,
    "end": 685.24,
    "text": " And if we talk in terms of scope 1, 2, and 3,"
  },
  {
    "start": 685.24,
    "end": 689.84,
    "text": " does it include or exclude scope 3?"
  },
  {
    "start": 689.84,
    "end": 692.48,
    "text": " It does include scope 3."
  },
  {
    "start": 692.48,
    "end": 697.96,
    "text": " And so you're absolutely right on S1, Sivila."
  },
  {
    "start": 697.96,
    "end": 704.6,
    "text": " What we provide is a scanning system for CFOs,"
  },
  {
    "start": 704.6,
    "end": 709.4,
    "text": " for CEOs, for C-sweets, for boards."
  },
  {
    "start": 709.4,
    "end": 713.52,
    "text": " So therefore, not for CSOs, not for chief sustainability"
  },
  {
    "start": 713.52,
    "end": 717.0,
    "text": " officers only, but chief accountants,"
  },
  {
    "start": 717.0,
    "end": 720.08,
    "text": " controllers, the people in charge of strategy,"
  },
  {
    "start": 720.08,
    "end": 727.2,
    "text": " of risk management, to provide a tool that scans beyond the remit"
  },
  {
    "start": 727.2,
    "end": 728.56,
    "text": " of the financial statements."
  },
  {
    "start": 728.56,
    "end": 731.8,
    "text": " And that is therefore looking at the entire value chain,"
  },
  {
    "start": 731.8,
    "end": 735.2,
    "text": " the whole space of the entire value chain on one side."
  },
  {
    "start": 735.2,
    "end": 740.8,
    "text": " And then scanning the horizon of times, short, mid, and long term."
  },
  {
    "start": 740.8,
    "end": 746.64,
    "text": " We require that the whole value chain and the whole horizons"
  },
  {
    "start": 746.64,
    "end": 750.16,
    "text": " of time are being scanned with our tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 750.16,
    "end": 754.28,
    "text": " And with that, to report what is material that"
  },
  {
    "start": 754.28,
    "end": 757.64,
    "text": " is in our definition the same as accounting, which"
  },
  {
    "start": 757.64,
    "end": 761.12,
    "text": " is what actually matters for investors' decision."
  },
  {
    "start": 761.12,
    "end": 767.52,
    "text": " And therefore, having consulted with the market"
  },
  {
    "start": 767.52,
    "end": 772.76,
    "text": " in the draft that we exposed in March 22,"
  },
  {
    "start": 772.76,
    "end": 778.8,
    "text": " we know that investors want to have scope 3 information."
  },
  {
    "start": 778.8,
    "end": 783.76,
    "text": " Most of the time, scope 3, which is these indirect greenhouse"
  },
  {
    "start": 783.76,
    "end": 787.52,
    "text": " gas emissions in the value chains beyond the scope"
  },
  {
    "start": 787.52,
    "end": 794.32,
    "text": " of the company itself, they represent 70% to 80%"
  },
  {
    "start": 794.32,
    "end": 798.28,
    "text": " of, on average, any company's global emissions."
  },
  {
    "start": 798.28,
    "end": 802.0,
    "text": " And this is where, therefore, most of the transition risks"
  },
  {
    "start": 802.0,
    "end": 807.04,
    "text": " that can happen if a given country says,"
  },
  {
    "start": 807.04,
    "end": 812.16,
    "text": " I want to reduce my emissions of 80%,"
  },
  {
    "start": 812.16,
    "end": 814.88,
    "text": " like in Europe, for instance, by 2040."
  },
  {
    "start": 814.88,
    "end": 821.56,
    "text": " Well, if I'm selling thermal engines for cars in the EU,"
  },
  {
    "start": 821.56,
    "end": 823.4,
    "text": " I won't have a business."
  },
  {
    "start": 823.4,
    "end": 826.92,
    "text": " Or my business will be cut by 80% by 2040."
  },
  {
    "start": 826.92,
    "end": 828.36,
    "text": " So what do I do with that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 828.36,
    "end": 830.76,
    "text": " How do I address that transition risk"
  },
  {
    "start": 830.76,
    "end": 833.76,
    "text": " by investing differently, preparing my company"
  },
  {
    "start": 833.76,
    "end": 839.04,
    "text": " for new consumer demand, or maybe diversify"
  },
  {
    "start": 839.04,
    "end": 842.24,
    "text": " as the places where I'm going to sell my cars, maybe."
  },
  {
    "start": 842.24,
    "end": 843.24,
    "text": " I just don't know."
  },
  {
    "start": 843.24,
    "end": 847.16,
    "text": " But therefore, this is why investors have asked"
  },
  {
    "start": 847.16,
    "end": 848.52,
    "text": " that scope 3 is in there."
  },
  {
    "start": 848.52,
    "end": 851.4,
    "text": " So we voted--"
  },
  {
    "start": 851.4,
    "end": 858.2,
    "text": " I remember very well-- we voted in October 2022"
  },
  {
    "start": 858.2,
    "end": 864.08,
    "text": " that scope 3 would be confirmed as our requirements"
  },
  {
    "start": 864.08,
    "end": 867.44,
    "text": " when it is material."
  },
  {
    "start": 867.44,
    "end": 875.44,
    "text": " And as you say that you are laser-like focused on investors,"
  },
  {
    "start": 875.44,
    "end": 881.28,
    "text": " but how is that being welcomed by companies?"
  },
  {
    "start": 881.28,
    "end": 894.04,
    "text": " I think companies realize that some ESG topics are"
  },
  {
    "start": 894.04,
    "end": 896.52,
    "text": " critical for their business."
  },
  {
    "start": 896.52,
    "end": 899.28,
    "text": " I wouldn't say, oh, but some."
  },
  {
    "start": 899.28,
    "end": 902.84,
    "text": " I've been a manager for a long time."
  },
  {
    "start": 902.84,
    "end": 906.56,
    "text": " I've been a CA for twice in my career for a long time."
  },
  {
    "start": 906.56,
    "end": 909.72,
    "text": " I've been a CEO of a global company, as you just said."
  },
  {
    "start": 909.72,
    "end": 913.0,
    "text": " I also chaired the Consumer Goods Forum, which"
  },
  {
    "start": 913.0,
    "end": 915.4,
    "text": " is the trade association, the global trade"
  },
  {
    "start": 915.4,
    "end": 921.52,
    "text": " associations for the top 500, not only consumer goods,"
  },
  {
    "start": 921.52,
    "end": 924.88,
    "text": " brands, and manufacturers, but also the retail platforms"
  },
  {
    "start": 924.88,
    "end": 927.32,
    "text": " and the banners and the digital platforms."
  },
  {
    "start": 927.32,
    "end": 930.28,
    "text": " So I know many of them."
  },
  {
    "start": 930.28,
    "end": 936.8,
    "text": " And I cannot tell you one single CEO that does not"
  },
  {
    "start": 936.8,
    "end": 942.28,
    "text": " agree that sustainability is a strategic matter."
  },
  {
    "start": 942.28,
    "end": 945.32,
    "text": " They all agree that some sustainability topics"
  },
  {
    "start": 945.32,
    "end": 949.32,
    "text": " for their company are critical."
  },
  {
    "start": 949.32,
    "end": 952.36,
    "text": " So when you're telling them that you're"
  },
  {
    "start": 952.36,
    "end": 956.64,
    "text": " going to design a tool that will allow them, for instance,"
  },
  {
    "start": 956.64,
    "end": 959.92,
    "text": " on climate to elaborate a strategy"
  },
  {
    "start": 959.92,
    "end": 962.96,
    "text": " and to explain that strategy in financial terms,"
  },
  {
    "start": 962.96,
    "end": 966.32,
    "text": " sometimes in accounting terms to their investors"
  },
  {
    "start": 966.32,
    "end": 968.84,
    "text": " and to their banks, what they realize"
  },
  {
    "start": 968.84,
    "end": 972.92,
    "text": " is that climate change will change their competitive"
  },
  {
    "start": 972.92,
    "end": 974.24,
    "text": " advantage."
  },
  {
    "start": 974.24,
    "end": 978.12,
    "text": " I'll just give you an example."
  },
  {
    "start": 978.12,
    "end": 983.8,
    "text": " So Frankfurt, my home office, is not very far from the Rhine"
  },
  {
    "start": 983.8,
    "end": 985.84,
    "text": " River."
  },
  {
    "start": 985.84,
    "end": 989.76,
    "text": " In '22 and in '23 summer time, the Rhine River"
  },
  {
    "start": 989.76,
    "end": 996.36,
    "text": " went so low in terms of the water volume in the river"
  },
  {
    "start": 996.36,
    "end": 999.8,
    "text": " because of the heat waves in the mountains"
  },
  {
    "start": 999.8,
    "end": 1005.08,
    "text": " and the glacier lack of water supply"
  },
  {
    "start": 1005.08,
    "end": 1011.52,
    "text": " that the navigation, the traffic of boats on the Rhine River"
  },
  {
    "start": 1011.52,
    "end": 1013.32,
    "text": " had to be stopped."
  },
  {
    "start": 1013.32,
    "end": 1018.04,
    "text": " And the new smaller, much smaller boats"
  },
  {
    "start": 1018.04,
    "end": 1020.44,
    "text": " had to be brought all across Europe"
  },
  {
    "start": 1020.44,
    "end": 1026.44,
    "text": " in order to be able to navigate on a much shallower water"
  },
  {
    "start": 1026.44,
    "end": 1027.84,
    "text": " level."
  },
  {
    "start": 1027.84,
    "end": 1030.6,
    "text": " That has transformed the supply chains,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1030.6,
    "end": 1035.28,
    "text": " created huge inventory issues in the ports downstream"
  },
  {
    "start": 1035.28,
    "end": 1041.0,
    "text": " and in the cities and factories upstream for months, which"
  },
  {
    "start": 1041.0,
    "end": 1044.84,
    "text": " are still now in the inflation that was felt."
  },
  {
    "start": 1044.84,
    "end": 1048.48,
    "text": " Nobody thought that being close to the Rhine River"
  },
  {
    "start": 1048.48,
    "end": 1052.24,
    "text": " or close to another one could potentially"
  },
  {
    "start": 1052.24,
    "end": 1055.92,
    "text": " have an impact on my supply chains."
  },
  {
    "start": 1055.92,
    "end": 1058.84,
    "text": " Well, now you have evidence that it has."
  },
  {
    "start": 1058.84,
    "end": 1063.24,
    "text": " So one factory may be in a place where there will not"
  },
  {
    "start": 1063.24,
    "end": 1065.68,
    "text": " be water anymore in 20 years."
  },
  {
    "start": 1065.68,
    "end": 1069.68,
    "text": " If you run a climate scenario, in some scenario,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1069.68,
    "end": 1072.12,
    "text": " your factory may not have water."
  },
  {
    "start": 1072.12,
    "end": 1073.84,
    "text": " Well, the factory of your competitor"
  },
  {
    "start": 1073.84,
    "end": 1077.72,
    "text": " that does exactly the same product may still have water."
  },
  {
    "start": 1077.72,
    "end": 1081.6,
    "text": " So they have a competitive advantage against you."
  },
  {
    "start": 1081.6,
    "end": 1085.24,
    "text": " So if you prepare earlier to ensure"
  },
  {
    "start": 1085.24,
    "end": 1087.6,
    "text": " that you have water access in the future,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1087.6,
    "end": 1090.2,
    "text": " you have access to traffic, including"
  },
  {
    "start": 1090.2,
    "end": 1093.36,
    "text": " fluvial river traffic if necessary,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1093.36,
    "end": 1095.72,
    "text": " you invest in the future."
  },
  {
    "start": 1095.72,
    "end": 1099.6,
    "text": " You future proof your business to climate change."
  },
  {
    "start": 1099.6,
    "end": 1104.16,
    "text": " And any CFO knows that for that you need money."
  },
  {
    "start": 1104.16,
    "end": 1108.04,
    "text": " But if you do this in a smarter way than your competitor"
  },
  {
    "start": 1108.04,
    "end": 1110.36,
    "text": " and you can show to your investor"
  },
  {
    "start": 1110.36,
    "end": 1114.8,
    "text": " that your ability to design a resilience system"
  },
  {
    "start": 1114.8,
    "end": 1117.48,
    "text": " and a resilience system is better than your competitor,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1117.48,
    "end": 1120.24,
    "text": " you're basically creating a competitive advantage."
  },
  {
    "start": 1120.24,
    "end": 1122.8,
    "text": " And this is what our standards are doing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1122.8,
    "end": 1125.56,
    "text": " which they are highlighting competitive advantages"
  },
  {
    "start": 1125.56,
    "end": 1128.04,
    "text": " in the supply chains and the short, mid, and long-term"
  },
  {
    "start": 1128.04,
    "end": 1131.04,
    "text": " horizons that then companies can use"
  },
  {
    "start": 1131.04,
    "end": 1134.32,
    "text": " to discuss with their board and with their investors."
  },
  {
    "start": 1134.32,
    "end": 1137.64,
    "text": " And so the overwhelming majority of companies"
  },
  {
    "start": 1137.64,
    "end": 1143.24,
    "text": " is heavily supporting us."
  },
  {
    "start": 1143.24,
    "end": 1145.64,
    "text": " It was interesting that at COP26, as I just said,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1145.64,
    "end": 1148.4,
    "text": " the ICSB's creation was supported by a lot"
  },
  {
    "start": 1148.4,
    "end": 1151.44,
    "text": " of multilateral organizations and global authorities."
  },
  {
    "start": 1151.44,
    "end": 1160.76,
    "text": " And COP28, last year, it was very striking in Dubai"
  },
  {
    "start": 1160.76,
    "end": 1165.04,
    "text": " that in addition to them, there have been 400 organizations"
  },
  {
    "start": 1165.04,
    "end": 1169.72,
    "text": " that came in committing to support the establishment"
  },
  {
    "start": 1169.72,
    "end": 1173.48,
    "text": " of our climate baseline of language,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1173.48,
    "end": 1177.64,
    "text": " including membership organizations of businesses,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1177.64,
    "end": 1181.32,
    "text": " in particular in Europe, that represented more than 10,000"
  },
  {
    "start": 1181.32,
    "end": 1182.6,
    "text": " companies."
  },
  {
    "start": 1182.6,
    "end": 1186.76,
    "text": " So I'll finish because I realize I'm super long."
  },
  {
    "start": 1186.76,
    "end": 1193.2,
    "text": " But the reason I think they realize"
  },
  {
    "start": 1193.2,
    "end": 1199.12,
    "text": " that reporting on three, four, five different set of ESG"
  },
  {
    "start": 1199.12,
    "end": 1202.92,
    "text": " metrics today is not giving them the money or the advantage"
  },
  {
    "start": 1202.92,
    "end": 1203.76,
    "text": " that they want."
  },
  {
    "start": 1203.76,
    "end": 1206.72,
    "text": " And that is spending a lot of energy and cost"
  },
  {
    "start": 1206.72,
    "end": 1210.84,
    "text": " in various languages that are imperfect because they're not"
  },
  {
    "start": 1210.84,
    "end": 1212.84,
    "text": " comparable, they are not assurable,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1212.84,
    "end": 1215.48,
    "text": " and therefore they're not reliable and useful for investors"
  },
  {
    "start": 1215.48,
    "end": 1216.4,
    "text": " to decide."
  },
  {
    "start": 1216.4,
    "end": 1220.04,
    "text": " So if they could get rid of that and use one language"
  },
  {
    "start": 1220.04,
    "end": 1223.32,
    "text": " in all countries because Brazil has decided"
  },
  {
    "start": 1223.32,
    "end": 1226.8,
    "text": " to use our standards, Canada is launching a consultation"
  },
  {
    "start": 1226.8,
    "end": 1227.28,
    "text": " on this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1227.28,
    "end": 1229.8,
    "text": " Japan has decided on 25."
  },
  {
    "start": 1229.8,
    "end": 1231.44,
    "text": " Turkey has decided on 24."
  },
  {
    "start": 1231.44,
    "end": 1234.88,
    "text": " Nigeria has decided on 25, et cetera, et cetera."
  },
  {
    "start": 1234.88,
    "end": 1238.4,
    "text": " They will be able to use our standards wherever they are"
  },
  {
    "start": 1238.4,
    "end": 1242.04,
    "text": " to collect the data, process them into one language,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1242.04,
    "end": 1246.24,
    "text": " and then go to the market with a simple, cost-effective"
  },
  {
    "start": 1246.24,
    "end": 1249.6,
    "text": " language and decision useful."
  },
  {
    "start": 1249.6,
    "end": 1255.0,
    "text": " Now, it is an investment, but I have to say one thing is"
  },
  {
    "start": 1255.0,
    "end": 1259.36,
    "text": " it's not by chance that I was asked, I think,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1259.36,
    "end": 1266.96,
    "text": " to lead and share the group of my colleagues."
  },
  {
    "start": 1266.96,
    "end": 1270.96,
    "text": " The choice was made to have a CEO, a CFO."
  },
  {
    "start": 1270.96,
    "end": 1273.76,
    "text": " I've been talking to thousands of investors."
  },
  {
    "start": 1273.76,
    "end": 1278.2,
    "text": " I've signed accounts of companies 20 years in a row."
  },
  {
    "start": 1278.2,
    "end": 1280.6,
    "text": " And so I know what is possible and what's not,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1280.6,
    "end": 1282.08,
    "text": " what's difficult and what's not."
  },
  {
    "start": 1282.08,
    "end": 1284.28,
    "text": " And not only me, it's totally collective."
  },
  {
    "start": 1284.28,
    "end": 1290.88,
    "text": " We've got former investors from GPIF in Japan, the government"
  },
  {
    "start": 1290.88,
    "end": 1294.6,
    "text": " investment fund of Japan, the longest term investor"
  },
  {
    "start": 1294.6,
    "end": 1297.28,
    "text": " in the world, probably."
  },
  {
    "start": 1297.28,
    "end": 1301.72,
    "text": " Colleagues from KKR, colleagues from former BlackRock"
  },
  {
    "start": 1301.72,
    "end": 1305.84,
    "text": " and CalTas in California."
  },
  {
    "start": 1305.84,
    "end": 1309.16,
    "text": " We've got the former sustainability person"
  },
  {
    "start": 1309.16,
    "end": 1315.88,
    "text": " from Siemens from Dan Gote, Nigeria, multinational in Africa,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1315.88,
    "end": 1321.48,
    "text": " from Metro, the retail company in Germany and in Europe."
  },
  {
    "start": 1321.48,
    "end": 1325.72,
    "text": " And so it's practitioners that have been working together"
  },
  {
    "start": 1325.72,
    "end": 1327.76,
    "text": " with academics."
  },
  {
    "start": 1327.76,
    "end": 1332.4,
    "text": " Also one of the vice chairs is from the IASB."
  },
  {
    "start": 1332.4,
    "end": 1336.36,
    "text": " So we have the former vice chair of the accounting board,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1336.36,
    "end": 1338.84,
    "text": " which is now a vice chair of our board."
  },
  {
    "start": 1338.84,
    "end": 1341.8,
    "text": " But also the former treasurer of World Bank,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1341.8,
    "end": 1344.2,
    "text": " which is also the other vice chair."
  },
  {
    "start": 1344.2,
    "end": 1347.32,
    "text": " So we are professionals, basically,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1347.32,
    "end": 1352.36,
    "text": " in probably what is a very unique place, the IASB Foundation,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1352.36,
    "end": 1354.48,
    "text": " in terms of experience to set standards."
  },
  {
    "start": 1354.48,
    "end": 1357.8,
    "text": " And this super long response is to say,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1357.8,
    "end": 1361.56,
    "text": " this is why I think we've got so much traction"
  },
  {
    "start": 1361.56,
    "end": 1365.84,
    "text": " from corporates around the world pushing for the simplification"
  },
  {
    "start": 1365.84,
    "end": 1368.8,
    "text": " that our standards are going to bring."
  },
  {
    "start": 1368.8,
    "end": 1372.04,
    "text": " And yeah, feel absolutely free, because I don't think"
  },
  {
    "start": 1372.04,
    "end": 1373.92,
    "text": " it's a matter of super long."
  },
  {
    "start": 1373.92,
    "end": 1377.04,
    "text": " It is important that we all understand that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1377.04,
    "end": 1381.6,
    "text": " And we have listeners in 90 countries by now,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1381.6,
    "end": 1384.16,
    "text": " all on a different level, I would say,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1384.16,
    "end": 1386.16,
    "text": " which brings me to the next question,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1386.16,
    "end": 1390.04,
    "text": " is if you talk about all those companies already"
  },
  {
    "start": 1390.04,
    "end": 1394.88,
    "text": " committed in the different jurisdictions, how do you"
  },
  {
    "start": 1394.88,
    "end": 1398.56,
    "text": " or do you have to adapt to the different jurisdictions?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1398.56,
    "end": 1404.04,
    "text": " What do they adapt to you?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1404.04,
    "end": 1405.92,
    "text": " Both, I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 1405.92,
    "end": 1412.2,
    "text": " What we have done is that we have provided transition reliefs"
  },
  {
    "start": 1412.2,
    "end": 1418.32,
    "text": " in the use of our standards to allow companies and regulators"
  },
  {
    "start": 1418.32,
    "end": 1422.08,
    "text": " some time, because we know it takes time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1422.08,
    "end": 1424.84,
    "text": " I'll give you one example."
  },
  {
    "start": 1424.84,
    "end": 1431.08,
    "text": " On scope one, two, and three, we gave a one year relief"
  },
  {
    "start": 1431.08,
    "end": 1431.88,
    "text": " on scope three."
  },
  {
    "start": 1431.88,
    "end": 1436.24,
    "text": " So if you're not ready on scope three, you have one year."
  },
  {
    "start": 1436.24,
    "end": 1438.6,
    "text": " That one year, I know, is useful."
  },
  {
    "start": 1438.6,
    "end": 1442.48,
    "text": " In 209, in my company, we decided to report on scope three."
  },
  {
    "start": 1442.48,
    "end": 1446.04,
    "text": " It took us about a year to put a system together."
  },
  {
    "start": 1446.04,
    "end": 1449.36,
    "text": " You need to start by doing the value chain mapping"
  },
  {
    "start": 1449.36,
    "end": 1454.04,
    "text": " and then install a system to measure with proxies"
  },
  {
    "start": 1454.04,
    "end": 1455.92,
    "text": " or direct measurement and other ways."
  },
  {
    "start": 1455.92,
    "end": 1456.6,
    "text": " It takes time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1456.6,
    "end": 1458.0,
    "text": " It's an investment."
  },
  {
    "start": 1458.0,
    "end": 1460.96,
    "text": " So we've provided for that, for instance."
  },
  {
    "start": 1460.96,
    "end": 1465.52,
    "text": " We also provided, for instance, that some companies would start"
  },
  {
    "start": 1465.52,
    "end": 1469.72,
    "text": " and could start the first year with climate only."
  },
  {
    "start": 1469.72,
    "end": 1473.8,
    "text": " You just report on climate before reporting on the rest."
  },
  {
    "start": 1473.8,
    "end": 1477.32,
    "text": " Because we know climate is probably the most difficult"
  },
  {
    "start": 1477.32,
    "end": 1481.96,
    "text": " and comprehensive set of reporting."
  },
  {
    "start": 1481.96,
    "end": 1488.56,
    "text": " We have created transitional reliefs also for regulators."
  },
  {
    "start": 1488.56,
    "end": 1493.08,
    "text": " In, for instance, the timing of issuance within a given year."
  },
  {
    "start": 1493.08,
    "end": 1496.92,
    "text": " How many months do you allow before the next year?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1496.92,
    "end": 1500.16,
    "text": " Because to provide the information,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1500.16,
    "end": 1504.32,
    "text": " because our standards require that companies"
  },
  {
    "start": 1504.32,
    "end": 1507.52,
    "text": " publish them at the same time as their financial statements."
  },
  {
    "start": 1507.52,
    "end": 1509.36,
    "text": " We know it may take a bit of time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1509.36,
    "end": 1514.28,
    "text": " So we have created pathways that jurisdictions can use"
  },
  {
    "start": 1514.28,
    "end": 1516.12,
    "text": " in order to start their journey."
  },
  {
    "start": 1516.12,
    "end": 1518.56,
    "text": " Some jurisdictions would start with climate first."
  },
  {
    "start": 1518.56,
    "end": 1521.6,
    "text": " Some jurisdictions will start by permitting the standards."
  },
  {
    "start": 1521.6,
    "end": 1523.76,
    "text": " I was mentioning Brazil."
  },
  {
    "start": 1523.76,
    "end": 1531.76,
    "text": " Brazil has said listed companies are permitted to use the standards in 24."
  },
  {
    "start": 1531.76,
    "end": 1535.76,
    "text": " Private companies are permitted to use the standards in 25."
  },
  {
    "start": 1535.76,
    "end": 1538.76,
    "text": " In 26, it's mandatory for everyone."
  },
  {
    "start": 1538.76,
    "end": 1542.56,
    "text": " So these journeys, we're talking to jurisdictions"
  },
  {
    "start": 1542.56,
    "end": 1546.0,
    "text": " to ensure that they go at the speed,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1546.0,
    "end": 1549.56,
    "text": " which is the right speed for success for them."
  },
  {
    "start": 1549.56,
    "end": 1555.12,
    "text": " So that's one thing I think is important in the way we discuss"
  },
  {
    "start": 1555.12,
    "end": 1557.92,
    "text": " with jurisdictions around the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1557.92,
    "end": 1564.36,
    "text": " And I have to say that we have paid a lot of attention"
  },
  {
    "start": 1564.36,
    "end": 1569.8,
    "text": " that we have a diverse group of board members"
  },
  {
    "start": 1569.8,
    "end": 1572.56,
    "text": " in terms of their own backgrounds."
  },
  {
    "start": 1572.56,
    "end": 1578.0,
    "text": " We've got people, as I just mentioned, from Nigeria,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1578.0,
    "end": 1583.56,
    "text": " but also from China, from Japan, from Korea,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1583.56,
    "end": 1587.8,
    "text": " and many others that are bringing a wealth of different approaches"
  },
  {
    "start": 1587.8,
    "end": 1588.8,
    "text": " around the table."
  },
  {
    "start": 1588.8,
    "end": 1593.36,
    "text": " And we do, of course, have a number of other consultative groups"
  },
  {
    "start": 1593.36,
    "end": 1597.32,
    "text": " that give us in slide about what jurisdictions want."
  },
  {
    "start": 1597.32,
    "end": 1600.52,
    "text": " And I'll just finish by giving a surprising example,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1600.52,
    "end": 1608.8,
    "text": " which is the first jurisdiction that one year after COP26,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1608.8,
    "end": 1611.96,
    "text": " and even before we finalize our standards,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1611.96,
    "end": 1618.92,
    "text": " in Sharnelshek at COP27, announced their decision"
  },
  {
    "start": 1618.92,
    "end": 1623.04,
    "text": " to be an early adopter was Nigeria."
  },
  {
    "start": 1623.04,
    "end": 1624.88,
    "text": " And I was in Nigeria 10 days ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 1624.88,
    "end": 1627.96,
    "text": " And I can tell you that the conversation that we had"
  },
  {
    "start": 1627.96,
    "end": 1632.8,
    "text": " really resonated on why it makes sense for countries"
  },
  {
    "start": 1632.8,
    "end": 1635.52,
    "text": " like Nigeria, but South Africa and others,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1635.52,
    "end": 1638.56,
    "text": " that we had been in conversation with,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1638.56,
    "end": 1643.48,
    "text": " to gradually introduce our standards for the benefits"
  },
  {
    "start": 1643.48,
    "end": 1645.44,
    "text": " of the local economy."
  },
  {
    "start": 1645.44,
    "end": 1648.76,
    "text": " Yeah, I remember you being in Nigeria,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1648.76,
    "end": 1652.2,
    "text": " because a colleague of mine, she is Nigerian."
  },
  {
    "start": 1652.2,
    "end": 1654.04,
    "text": " She attended one of your meetings"
  },
  {
    "start": 1654.04,
    "end": 1660.96,
    "text": " and was, as I remember, very taken with the work of the ISSP."
  },
  {
    "start": 1660.96,
    "end": 1668.52,
    "text": " But equally important, she was very proud of Nigeria's engagement."
  },
  {
    "start": 1668.52,
    "end": 1673.44,
    "text": " However, I wanted to take you back to 2009,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1673.44,
    "end": 1679.32,
    "text": " you being CEO of Danen and absolutely ahead of your time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1679.32,
    "end": 1684.64,
    "text": " Because it was 15 years ago that you said,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1684.64,
    "end": 1688.92,
    "text": " \"We do not need any longer achieve sustainability officer.\""
  },
  {
    "start": 1688.92,
    "end": 1693.64,
    "text": " By the way, most companies still don't have one today."
  },
  {
    "start": 1693.64,
    "end": 1696.32,
    "text": " You said we don't need one any longer."
  },
  {
    "start": 1696.32,
    "end": 1703.0,
    "text": " Because, and I quote you, \"Sustainability is everybody's responsibility.\""
  },
  {
    "start": 1703.0,
    "end": 1709.0,
    "text": " So you're really a pioneer."
  },
  {
    "start": 1709.0,
    "end": 1715.64,
    "text": " Can you just tell us why did you do it 15 years ago?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1715.64,
    "end": 1720.04,
    "text": " Oh, I think there's a combination."
  },
  {
    "start": 1720.04,
    "end": 1725.68,
    "text": " First, Danen was already well advanced in sustainability."
  },
  {
    "start": 1725.68,
    "end": 1734.36,
    "text": " Already in 1972, the predecessor of my predecessor as a CEO"
  },
  {
    "start": 1734.36,
    "end": 1738.88,
    "text": " had said that this company would have what was called"
  },
  {
    "start": 1738.88,
    "end": 1741.8,
    "text": " a dual economic and social project."
  },
  {
    "start": 1741.8,
    "end": 1746.92,
    "text": " So it would be looking really at not only delivering economic value,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1746.92,
    "end": 1748.92,
    "text": " but also social value."
  },
  {
    "start": 1748.92,
    "end": 1752.76,
    "text": " That was many, many, many years ago, like 50 years now."
  },
  {
    "start": 1752.76,
    "end": 1754.76,
    "text": " So that was there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1754.76,
    "end": 1764.24,
    "text": " Over time, corporate social responsibility became sustainability"
  },
  {
    "start": 1764.24,
    "end": 1767.24,
    "text": " over probably a span of 20 years."
  },
  {
    "start": 1767.24,
    "end": 1770.76,
    "text": " So it's not like sustainability was nationed in the business."
  },
  {
    "start": 1770.76,
    "end": 1771.76,
    "text": " It was there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1771.76,
    "end": 1776.76,
    "text": " We, I think, were pioneers already."
  },
  {
    "start": 1776.76,
    "end": 1781.76,
    "text": " The decision we made was because I was part of the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1781.76,
    "end": 1788.76,
    "text": " business, I was personally very clear that one of the aspects about"
  },
  {
    "start": 1788.76,
    "end": 1796.28,
    "text": " carbon emissions is that, talking about scope three, most of the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1796.28,
    "end": 1799.48,
    "text": " company's carbon emissions were from agriculture."
  },
  {
    "start": 1799.48,
    "end": 1803.28,
    "text": " 70% at least was in agriculture."
  },
  {
    "start": 1803.28,
    "end": 1808.84,
    "text": " And when you have emissions by agriculture, it means the carbon"
  },
  {
    "start": 1808.84,
    "end": 1811.84,
    "text": " is in the soil, goes into the atmosphere."
  },
  {
    "start": 1811.84,
    "end": 1815.84,
    "text": " It's not good for the planet, but it's also very bad for the soil."
  },
  {
    "start": 1815.84,
    "end": 1822.84,
    "text": " Because the carbon is 60% of the organic matter that nourishes"
  },
  {
    "start": 1822.84,
    "end": 1824.84,
    "text": " the health of the soil."
  },
  {
    "start": 1824.84,
    "end": 1826.84,
    "text": " So without carbon, you don't have a soil."
  },
  {
    "start": 1826.84,
    "end": 1828.84,
    "text": " You don't, I mean, the soil is just dying."
  },
  {
    "start": 1828.84,
    "end": 1829.84,
    "text": " Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1829.98,
    "end": 1835.94,
    "text": " time, we knew that with intensive agriculture in some areas around the world, overall across"
  },
  {
    "start": 1835.94,
    "end": 1844.74,
    "text": " the world about 30% of soils are degraded. And you may not be soon able to farm unless"
  },
  {
    "start": 1844.74,
    "end": 1851.42,
    "text": " you continue to put more artificial chemical nutrients, but basically on a dead soil and"
  },
  {
    "start": 1851.42,
    "end": 1857.62,
    "text": " just superpowering the plant with chemical interest, which is a dead end. At the end,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1857.62,
    "end": 1864.3,
    "text": " it doesn't work. So the idea was, particular on scope one, two and three, but on others,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1864.3,
    "end": 1871.62,
    "text": " that we had a business rationale to ensure that for business reasons, we want to reduce"
  },
  {
    "start": 1871.62,
    "end": 1879.02,
    "text": " the agriculture emissions in our scope one, two and three. And we invested in that. But"
  },
  {
    "start": 1879.02,
    "end": 1886.66,
    "text": " to do this, indeed, what you need to avoid is that there is an office somewhere that"
  },
  {
    "start": 1886.66,
    "end": 1894.26,
    "text": " in the organization or in the sixth floor or whatever is in charge of sustainability,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1894.26,
    "end": 1899.9,
    "text": " because that person then is the person to go to. And it becomes the responsibility of"
  },
  {
    "start": 1899.9,
    "end": 1905.54,
    "text": " no one else. And the radical choice that we made was because we were already well advanced"
  },
  {
    "start": 1905.54,
    "end": 1913.38,
    "text": " and the culture of the company was mature enough, we decided to cut that. And in exchange"
  },
  {
    "start": 1913.38,
    "end": 1923.06,
    "text": " for that, we added sustainability in the yearly bonus of all the managers of the company."
  },
  {
    "start": 1923.06,
    "end": 1934.22,
    "text": " So in 15,000, 15,000 managers around the world, out of 100,000 people around about the company"
  },
  {
    "start": 1934.22,
    "end": 1940.82,
    "text": " had a third of their bonus, yearly bonus, attached to sustainability. And that's how"
  },
  {
    "start": 1940.82,
    "end": 1946.86,
    "text": " it really kick off a completely new journey of integrating sustainability as part of the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1946.86,
    "end": 1952.02,
    "text": " strategy and the business decisions for the company."
  },
  {
    "start": 1952.02,
    "end": 1960.38,
    "text": " I find that absolutely fascinating because we are talking about a totally different time"
  },
  {
    "start": 1960.38,
    "end": 1975.1,
    "text": " because I'm currently in Germany. And the talk about ESGs is not alien, but almost."
  },
  {
    "start": 1975.1,
    "end": 1982.02,
    "text": " And having a chief sustainability officer is very rare. We cannot compare the small,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1982.02,
    "end": 1987.66,
    "text": " medium-sized enterprise here to the Siemens of the world or Möller-Mehrsko or you or"
  },
  {
    "start": 1987.66,
    "end": 1998.78,
    "text": " Unilever. So this is, I mean, that are 15 years and the sustainability development goals"
  },
  {
    "start": 1998.78,
    "end": 2008.42,
    "text": " were 2015. So how come we have this group of companies which one where you belong to or"
  },
  {
    "start": 2008.42,
    "end": 2017.38,
    "text": " let's say Möller-Mehrsko or Unilever, whatever, they did all that, but not many followed at"
  },
  {
    "start": 2017.38,
    "end": 2023.1,
    "text": " the time. Why is that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2023.1,
    "end": 2031.34,
    "text": " I think it's several aspects, but I would say first and foremost, it's a matter of the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2031.34,
    "end": 2040.18,
    "text": " culture of the company and the history of the company. You don't have the same culture."
  },
  {
    "start": 2040.18,
    "end": 2049.94,
    "text": " I mean, every culture is unique and how the culture is built. Is it a short-term performance"
  },
  {
    "start": 2049.94,
    "end": 2056.06,
    "text": " culture? Is it a long-term performance? Is it an inclusive or not inclusive? All of that"
  },
  {
    "start": 2056.06,
    "end": 2064.22,
    "text": " is really a matter of decades sometimes of cultural evolution, I'd say the first point."
  },
  {
    "start": 2064.22,
    "end": 2073.3,
    "text": " The second is some companies address sustainability topics sometimes without even knowing there"
  },
  {
    "start": 2073.3,
    "end": 2081.1,
    "text": " are sustainability topics. When you invest in your upstream supply chain or when you"
  },
  {
    "start": 2081.1,
    "end": 2095.14,
    "text": " train some downstream intermediate companies in your value chain, well, you do this for"
  },
  {
    "start": 2095.14,
    "end": 2103.5,
    "text": " business reasons. You want them to sell your product in an efficient, cost-effective manner."
  },
  {
    "start": 2103.5,
    "end": 2112.86,
    "text": " Let's take for instance, health at work. You can think about health at work as a human"
  },
  {
    "start": 2112.86,
    "end": 2121.7,
    "text": " right, and it is. But you can also think of it as a business performance issue. I know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2121.7,
    "end": 2127.42,
    "text": " for sure, I know I've been in charge of this in my company for a long time. I know for"
  },
  {
    "start": 2127.42,
    "end": 2134.98,
    "text": " sure that when there are accidents in a factory line or in a truck somewhere, it's because"
  },
  {
    "start": 2134.98,
    "end": 2143.22,
    "text": " there is a deficiency in the processes. There is a deficiency in the organization, which"
  },
  {
    "start": 2143.22,
    "end": 2153.86,
    "text": " is an issue of optimal performance. Accidents are the sign of something bigger. They are"
  },
  {
    "start": 2153.86,
    "end": 2161.78,
    "text": " a terrible thing from a human standpoint, of course. But there are a business issue."
  },
  {
    "start": 2161.78,
    "end": 2169.34,
    "text": " The same applies for drivers on the street. If you have an accident because the truck"
  },
  {
    "start": 2169.34,
    "end": 2179.34,
    "text": " is not well equipped, the safety instructions have not been met by the driver. The driver"
  },
  {
    "start": 2179.34,
    "end": 2186.98,
    "text": " is not trained properly. The driver has driven too much in the day, and there is an accident."
  },
  {
    "start": 2186.98,
    "end": 2193.82,
    "text": " It's a drama, but it also shows that you have an unsustainable business if everyone is doing"
  },
  {
    "start": 2193.82,
    "end": 2201.82,
    "text": " that. For companies, I know many of them that are investing in the smaller companies that"
  },
  {
    "start": 2201.82,
    "end": 2209.02,
    "text": " are part of their ecosystem. No company can succeed alone. Any company is completely linked"
  },
  {
    "start": 2209.02,
    "end": 2216.26,
    "text": " with its ecosystem to be successful overall. The larger companies invest in the smaller"
  },
  {
    "start": 2216.26,
    "end": 2222.14,
    "text": " ones in their capacity. This is sustainability, but you may not call it sustainability. It"
  },
  {
    "start": 2222.14,
    "end": 2229.1,
    "text": " is. I would also say that you don't always need a CSO to actually do sustainability without"
  },
  {
    "start": 2229.1,
    "end": 2236.02,
    "text": " knowing it is. The last thing I would say is, of course, that the longer a company has"
  },
  {
    "start": 2236.02,
    "end": 2242.26,
    "text": " been there, the more established its market position is, its brand, its reputation, its"
  },
  {
    "start": 2242.26,
    "end": 2250.14,
    "text": " size, the more it can think, and it should think, actually, about how solid, sustainable,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2250.14,
    "end": 2255.98,
    "text": " long-term all of this is. If you are a smaller company, I don't think you should be doing"
  },
  {
    "start": 2255.98,
    "end": 2263.66,
    "text": " the same. I think the agenda, given the size and the level of development of companies,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2263.66,
    "end": 2269.54,
    "text": " cannot be the same on sustainability. We need to look at it in a very pragmatic manner."
  },
  {
    "start": 2269.54,
    "end": 2274.94,
    "text": " This is why, for instance, as far as our standards are concerned, we are not saying that very"
  },
  {
    "start": 2274.94,
    "end": 2280.78,
    "text": " small companies should do them. I think our standards are too complex the way they are"
  },
  {
    "start": 2280.78,
    "end": 2286.82,
    "text": " to apply to groups of companies that are too small."
  },
  {
    "start": 2286.82,
    "end": 2295.02,
    "text": " When you talk to investors and business, what are their main questions and needs? I'm looking"
  },
  {
    "start": 2295.02,
    "end": 2301.42,
    "text": " pretty much for, is upskilling and educating one of it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2301.42,
    "end": 2313.58,
    "text": " Yes, absolutely. It's very clear that we cannot just be a standard setter. One of the reasons"
  },
  {
    "start": 2313.58,
    "end": 2323.42,
    "text": " why we have Jean Deng Hoa, the former treasurer of the World Bank with us, with a specific"
  },
  {
    "start": 2323.42,
    "end": 2330.94,
    "text": " role as a vice-chair on capacity building is exactly that. We know that we need to look"
  },
  {
    "start": 2330.94,
    "end": 2340.46,
    "text": " at the ecosystemic nature of standard setting. We need to be part of conversations that are"
  },
  {
    "start": 2340.46,
    "end": 2346.42,
    "text": " broader than just sitting in a room and setting standards. We spend our time to listen, to"
  },
  {
    "start": 2346.42,
    "end": 2352.14,
    "text": " think, to discuss. We spend our time in engaging. When we consulted, for instance, the draft"
  },
  {
    "start": 2352.14,
    "end": 2364.14,
    "text": " of IFRS S1 and IFRS S2 for four months in summer 22, we actually engaged with nearly"
  },
  {
    "start": 2364.14,
    "end": 2372.14,
    "text": " 30,000 people around the world in four months through events, one-to-ones, and many others."
  },
  {
    "start": 2372.14,
    "end": 2377.74,
    "text": " So 30,000, we listen to make sure we've got the feedback that we need and adjust where"
  },
  {
    "start": 2377.74,
    "end": 2384.18,
    "text": " the needs are, what the possibilities are, et cetera. Then downstream the standards themselves,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2384.18,
    "end": 2393.78,
    "text": " we are developing educational materials, e-learnings, knowledge hubs, partnership on capacity"
  },
  {
    "start": 2393.78,
    "end": 2400.1,
    "text": " building with multilateral development banks, for instance, or with official development"
  },
  {
    "start": 2400.1,
    "end": 2406.58,
    "text": " assistance money that is used in global South countries. We've just announced, for instance,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2406.58,
    "end": 2414.18,
    "text": " with the UKFDO, a partnership with PAPA, the Pan-African Federation of Accountants, that"
  },
  {
    "start": 2414.18,
    "end": 2423.66,
    "text": " has 125,000 accountants across the 54 countries of the African Union, a partnership on capacity"
  },
  {
    "start": 2423.66,
    "end": 2431.22,
    "text": " building which is funded by the UKFDO. We provide the material, et cetera, et cetera."
  },
  {
    "start": 2431.22,
    "end": 2437.94,
    "text": " We're developing right now finalizing a jurisdictional adoption guide that will help jurisdictions"
  },
  {
    "start": 2437.94,
    "end": 2447.5,
    "text": " in handling their journey towards using our standards as a regulatory tool. So yes, the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2447.5,
    "end": 2455.26,
    "text": " demand from investors and certainly from companies and regulators is to have those educational"
  },
  {
    "start": 2455.26,
    "end": 2462.98,
    "text": " programs in order to ensure that we learn this language together. I'd say one thing"
  },
  {
    "start": 2462.98,
    "end": 2472.98,
    "text": " about this, which is we've been advocating the fact that we can't be perfect in using"
  },
  {
    "start": 2472.98,
    "end": 2480.06,
    "text": " this new language. It's a new economics language in a way we are rewriting economics and it's"
  },
  {
    "start": 2480.06,
    "end": 2486.82,
    "text": " not going to be done overnight. But some of these conversations are urgent. Climate is"
  },
  {
    "start": 2486.82,
    "end": 2492.1,
    "text": " urgent. Climate change, the physical risks are now. The transition risks have started"
  },
  {
    "start": 2492.1,
    "end": 2497.5,
    "text": " already in jurisdictions like Europe, Canada, many others that have decarbonation plans that"
  },
  {
    "start": 2497.5,
    "end": 2502.94,
    "text": " will be coming as negative and positive incentives of companies. So this is happening. And therefore,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2502.94,
    "end": 2508.58,
    "text": " we need to learn that language of climate together. And for the first time, we will not"
  },
  {
    "start": 2508.58,
    "end": 2514.54,
    "text": " be fluent. So we will be approximate and we will have the right to say, \"Oh, here I need"
  },
  {
    "start": 2514.54,
    "end": 2519.9,
    "text": " to reassess what my baseline was. That's different, et cetera. I can use estimates.\""
  },
  {
    "start": 2519.9,
    "end": 2525.66,
    "text": " We are offering the possibility to use ranges, not just one number, ranges, assumptions,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2525.66,
    "end": 2531.18,
    "text": " estimates, et cetera, in order to ensure that we all start learning the language together,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2531.18,
    "end": 2536.54,
    "text": " but also embarking on everyone as soon as practicable. So our encouragement and what"
  },
  {
    "start": 2536.54,
    "end": 2541.7,
    "text": " we are discussing is, don't wait until you're perfect. Start now and we are providing the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2541.7,
    "end": 2545.98,
    "text": " safety and the transition reliefs and the capacity building that we've been talking"
  },
  {
    "start": 2545.98,
    "end": 2546.98,
    "text": " about."
  },
  {
    "start": 2546.98,
    "end": 2554.9,
    "text": " Yeah. Yeah. Emmanuel, I would really like to dig a little deeper into the importance"
  },
  {
    "start": 2554.9,
    "end": 2565.34,
    "text": " of this economic language. And just briefly go on a personal note. I've accomplished last"
  },
  {
    "start": 2565.34,
    "end": 2571.62,
    "text": " month a six months ESG and sustainability designation for board members. And it was"
  },
  {
    "start": 2571.62,
    "end": 2577.46,
    "text": " a fantastic program done by a Canadian company called competent boards. And they are the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2577.46,
    "end": 2588.3,
    "text": " leaders in basically board education. And what they do is the beauty lies in it is a"
  },
  {
    "start": 2588.3,
    "end": 2601.14,
    "text": " truly global program from leaders for leaders. That includes basically the who is who of"
  },
  {
    "start": 2601.14,
    "end": 2606.94,
    "text": " course. And then we have the sustainability. So we have the ISSP, the standard setters."
  },
  {
    "start": 2606.94,
    "end": 2613.58,
    "text": " We have UN Global Compact. We have business leaders like Paul Porman. We have discussions"
  },
  {
    "start": 2613.58,
    "end": 2621.46,
    "text": " on capitalism, for example, with Martin Wolf from the Financial Times. Leaders learning"
  },
  {
    "start": 2621.46,
    "end": 2631.54,
    "text": " from other leaders. And we could understand and use the sustainability language in practice"
  },
  {
    "start": 2631.54,
    "end": 2640.9,
    "text": " from geopolitics to ISFR one and two. So and a couple of questions, questions start with"
  },
  {
    "start": 2640.9,
    "end": 2641.9,
    "text": " me."
  },
  {
    "start": 2641.9,
    "end": 2650.5,
    "text": " Number one is, do you really know your business as a as a leader today on the board as a CEO"
  },
  {
    "start": 2650.5,
    "end": 2660.62,
    "text": " of all? And the other question was, how do I know my board is asking the right questions?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2660.62,
    "end": 2661.62,
    "text": " How do I know?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2661.62,
    "end": 2672.26,
    "text": " Yeah. Well, I'll start with an uncomfortable that are okay. Yeah. PWC published at the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2672.26,
    "end": 2687.82,
    "text": " end of 21. A survey that was done after inquiring to to more than I think 1000 C suite executives"
  },
  {
    "start": 2687.82,
    "end": 2694.66,
    "text": " around the world on a number of topics around sustainability. One important chapter was"
  },
  {
    "start": 2694.66,
    "end": 2707.58,
    "text": " about the board. And 75, I think 76% of respondents said that their board was very far from being"
  },
  {
    "start": 2707.58,
    "end": 2717.98,
    "text": " equipped to govern and guide the company in its sustainability journey. I spoke earlier"
  },
  {
    "start": 2717.98,
    "end": 2727.1,
    "text": " of how I felt that CEOs and C suites were aware that some sustainability topics were"
  },
  {
    "start": 2727.1,
    "end": 2733.18,
    "text": " critical for their business. I know that what they are saying is my board is not aware."
  },
  {
    "start": 2733.18,
    "end": 2741.66,
    "text": " My board doesn't have the competency. Yeah, 75%. So we need to look at this clearly. Once"
  },
  {
    "start": 2741.66,
    "end": 2748.78,
    "text": " we've said that, what we provide with the TCFD framework, which we have embarked in"
  },
  {
    "start": 2748.78,
    "end": 2757.3,
    "text": " all our standard, starting with the grammar, the alphabet, the syntax that one is providing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2757.3,
    "end": 2770.78,
    "text": " we provide with TCFD a very broad set of disclosures that include for any particular topic on sustainability."
  },
  {
    "start": 2770.78,
    "end": 2776.38,
    "text": " The metrics that you want to disclose and your performance against your targets, but also"
  },
  {
    "start": 2776.38,
    "end": 2783.46,
    "text": " the risk management process of that your company about that particular risk, but also the strategy"
  },
  {
    "start": 2783.46,
    "end": 2789.1,
    "text": " that you design for the long term management of that risk or that opportunity, including"
  },
  {
    "start": 2789.1,
    "end": 2794.62,
    "text": " your investments and your strategy and everything that's designed about a strategy. And then"
  },
  {
    "start": 2794.62,
    "end": 2801.78,
    "text": " the governance. The governance question is, who has approved it? It's a different thing"
  },
  {
    "start": 2801.78,
    "end": 2808.14,
    "text": " if that's a local person or a functional person somewhere in a local headquarter or"
  },
  {
    "start": 2808.14,
    "end": 2815.86,
    "text": " region, or if that is the executive committee, or if that is the CEO, or if that is the strategic"
  },
  {
    "start": 2815.86,
    "end": 2821.9,
    "text": " committee of the board, or if that is the chair of the board and the board. And if in"
  },
  {
    "start": 2821.9,
    "end": 2829.94,
    "text": " a given company or in a given industry, nine companies say, my board has approved and is"
  },
  {
    "start": 2829.94,
    "end": 2838.06,
    "text": " overseeing and has been trained on such and such topics. And one company says, no, my"
  },
  {
    "start": 2838.06,
    "end": 2843.98,
    "text": " board is not overseeing that's done at the division level. And we don't have training"
  },
  {
    "start": 2843.98,
    "end": 2849.3,
    "text": " or expertise on climate or standard at the board level. That will make a difference."
  },
  {
    "start": 2849.3,
    "end": 2853.86,
    "text": " And we'll make a difference because investors will say, next slate of directors that you"
  },
  {
    "start": 2853.86,
    "end": 2858.66,
    "text": " need to hire, you need to make sure that you've got people that can bring some sustainability"
  },
  {
    "start": 2858.66,
    "end": 2863.34,
    "text": " topics on the table that can propose that there is training done for the board, et cetera,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2863.34,
    "end": 2871.5,
    "text": " et cetera. So it's very clear that boards have a major role to play on sustainability."
  },
  {
    "start": 2871.5,
    "end": 2882.82,
    "text": " You know, there is this, I've been a member of a 4,500 board since 2002, so for more than"
  },
  {
    "start": 2882.82,
    "end": 2893.38,
    "text": " 20 years, until I left my job at Denon two years ago to take this one. So I know how"
  },
  {
    "start": 2893.38,
    "end": 2901.58,
    "text": " boards work. And my experience, I remember a board member when I was a young board member"
  },
  {
    "start": 2901.58,
    "end": 2908.18,
    "text": " who said to the CEO, you know, this board has the power to tell you no, but doesn't"
  },
  {
    "start": 2908.18,
    "end": 2913.94,
    "text": " have the power to force you on yes. Well, I do believe that on sustainability matters,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2913.94,
    "end": 2921.5,
    "text": " given the urgency, strategic urgency for some of them in companies, that board should be"
  },
  {
    "start": 2921.5,
    "end": 2932.34,
    "text": " compelled to say yes, to authorize, to push the CEO and the C suite to address sustainability"
  },
  {
    "start": 2932.34,
    "end": 2938.58,
    "text": " in a strategic manner when it is strategic, of course. So I do believe that boards have"
  },
  {
    "start": 2938.58,
    "end": 2947.06,
    "text": " a fundamental role in propagating and authorizing companies to invest because that's an investment"
  },
  {
    "start": 2947.06,
    "end": 2952.9,
    "text": " to invest, hopefully with a return through our language, because you can get a cost of"
  },
  {
    "start": 2952.9,
    "end": 2958.02,
    "text": " capital advantage and you can raise funds at a competitive advantage with our standards,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2958.02,
    "end": 2964.06,
    "text": " but to invest in the sustainability journey that is badly needed for a number of them."
  },
  {
    "start": 2964.06,
    "end": 2969.54,
    "text": " And I think also that the changes that happen on the board level, and of course that happened"
  },
  {
    "start": 2969.54,
    "end": 2976.46,
    "text": " for you much earlier than everybody else, but the move from being a competitive board"
  },
  {
    "start": 2976.46,
    "end": 2982.94,
    "text": " where the CEO and the C is on, they all are competitive, rather than moving towards a"
  },
  {
    "start": 2982.94,
    "end": 2992.1,
    "text": " cooperative one is a bigger step than it sounds. What could help it on the way?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2992.1,
    "end": 3002.14,
    "text": " Yes. So I should have mentioned that my previous discussion about boards was about non-executive"
  },
  {
    "start": 3002.14,
    "end": 3008.7,
    "text": " boards, which in Germany would be the supervisory board as a management board, of course. When"
  },
  {
    "start": 3008.7,
    "end": 3013.94,
    "text": " you speak about management boards, which I qualified earlier in my conversation as C"
  },
  {
    "start": 3013.94,
    "end": 3018.58,
    "text": " suite, the executive committee, so the management board, that's where you have the CSO and the"
  },
  {
    "start": 3018.58,
    "end": 3029.7,
    "text": " CFO and the CMO and etc. Yes. Well, two things here. Sustainability is a recognition of interdependence."
  },
  {
    "start": 3029.7,
    "end": 3043.3,
    "text": " I'll take it from a very, very high position here. The ISSB has constantly dated a framework"
  },
  {
    "start": 3043.3,
    "end": 3050.62,
    "text": " which is called integrated reporting framework, which started in South Africa many years ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 3050.62,
    "end": 3055.86,
    "text": " And that integrated reporting framework, which is one that I have been using in my company"
  },
  {
    "start": 3055.86,
    "end": 3066.38,
    "text": " for a long, long time before that, says basically that the value that a company creates for"
  },
  {
    "start": 3066.38,
    "end": 3075.62,
    "text": " itself or for its stakeholders is inextricably linked to the value that it creates, protects"
  },
  {
    "start": 3075.62,
    "end": 3085.78,
    "text": " or erodes for others. That the company business model is creating dependencies, relationship,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3085.78,
    "end": 3097.22,
    "text": " impacts in its business ecosystem, which creates an inextricable ecosystem and interdependencies."
  },
  {
    "start": 3097.22,
    "end": 3104.22,
    "text": " I know it can be seen as complex, but that is the very, very basic truth. It is the truth."
  },
  {
    "start": 3104.22,
    "end": 3109.14,
    "text": " I depend on, that's what I said earlier, I depend on the success of the trucks that"
  },
  {
    "start": 3109.14,
    "end": 3116.42,
    "text": " are carrying my product. I depend on the success of the farmers or the miners or whoever they"
  },
  {
    "start": 3116.42,
    "end": 3123.1,
    "text": " are that are working on the raw materials that I need to be shipped to my place. I depend"
  },
  {
    "start": 3123.1,
    "end": 3132.58,
    "text": " on the boats that are on the river of Rhine or in the Panama, Detroit, to ship my goods."
  },
  {
    "start": 3132.58,
    "end": 3138.9,
    "text": " I depend on them. My contracts with them, I depend. It's an interdependence. Once you"
  },
  {
    "start": 3138.9,
    "end": 3148.06,
    "text": " say that, it means that competition is not so much about going at war against each other."
  },
  {
    "start": 3148.06,
    "end": 3157.06,
    "text": " It's who is best at cooperating within its ecosystem. Now, take this and transfer it"
  },
  {
    "start": 3157.06,
    "end": 3163.18,
    "text": " immediately to just the leadership team of a company. The same applies. The reality is"
  },
  {
    "start": 3163.18,
    "end": 3170.58,
    "text": " that the various functions around the CEO depends upon each other. I won't explain on"
  },
  {
    "start": 3170.58,
    "end": 3177.98,
    "text": " that. It's obvious. Those companies that work in a way where you have silos and decisions"
  },
  {
    "start": 3177.98,
    "end": 3183.82,
    "text": " are being made in silos, I know they work for a time, but they won't succeed in a very"
  },
  {
    "start": 3183.82,
    "end": 3190.3,
    "text": " complex world where you need now to have this overall view, this 360 helicopter view that"
  },
  {
    "start": 3190.3,
    "end": 3196.1,
    "text": " allows you to see beyond what counts in the short term. Not everything is in the quarterly"
  },
  {
    "start": 3196.1,
    "end": 3202.5,
    "text": " EPS number that you have. Every super important things are in the value chain, as I said,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3202.5,
    "end": 3208.94,
    "text": " the long-term horizon. It's not one function that can see that. It's a collective. You're"
  },
  {
    "start": 3208.94,
    "end": 3218.5,
    "text": " absolutely true that you cannot establish a proper sustainability strategy and execution"
  },
  {
    "start": 3218.5,
    "end": 3227.82,
    "text": " by a company if the management board does not behave in a cooperative, integrative interdependency"
  },
  {
    "start": 3227.82,
    "end": 3235.42,
    "text": " of functions. There are barriers to that. The silos, I mean, the way we've designed"
  },
  {
    "start": 3235.42,
    "end": 3241.66,
    "text": " organizations, I keep receiving calls because I know quite a few CFOs and I know quite a"
  },
  {
    "start": 3241.66,
    "end": 3251.02,
    "text": " few CSOs as well. I've got good friends for many years in both worlds around the planet."
  },
  {
    "start": 3251.02,
    "end": 3255.78,
    "text": " The people I know from the CSO space would be telling me, \"Emmanuel, what you're suggesting"
  },
  {
    "start": 3255.78,
    "end": 3261.82,
    "text": " with the standards that the company is going to be using because it's mandatory in the"
  },
  {
    "start": 3261.82,
    "end": 3267.74,
    "text": " country or because we want to use them?\" It's going to be me, the CSO, who has been fighting"
  },
  {
    "start": 3267.74,
    "end": 3275.1,
    "text": " to get money for my investment in supply chain, my investment in decarbonation for years."
  },
  {
    "start": 3275.1,
    "end": 3280.42,
    "text": " The CFO has said no to me. No, I don't have the money. No, there is the short term EPS."
  },
  {
    "start": 3280.42,
    "end": 3285.82,
    "text": " We don't have the budget. This Mr. No, I'm supposed to give him my life, my professional"
  },
  {
    "start": 3285.82,
    "end": 3291.14,
    "text": " life is going to be in his or her hands. On the other side, I've got the CFO that comes"
  },
  {
    "start": 3291.14,
    "end": 3295.42,
    "text": " to me and say, \"Emmanuel, I mean, you've been in this business. You're telling me that"
  },
  {
    "start": 3295.42,
    "end": 3302.18,
    "text": " me the CFO, I'm a very serious person. I should be taking these Excel spreadsheets and these"
  },
  {
    "start": 3302.18,
    "end": 3307.82,
    "text": " papers and qualitative stuff and nothing is robust that is in the sustainability side."
  },
  {
    "start": 3307.82,
    "end": 3313.38,
    "text": " I should build a language with which I'm going to the board and I'm going to the next"
  },
  {
    "start": 3313.38,
    "end": 3319.14,
    "text": " of the financial statements to put this. I can't do that. I'm a serious person.\" The"
  },
  {
    "start": 3319.14,
    "end": 3325.38,
    "text": " fact is, my friends, unless you work together, it's not going to work. It's exactly what"
  },
  {
    "start": 3325.38,
    "end": 3332.02,
    "text": " you say. This is where I think the CEOs and the boards have an obvious, the non-executive"
  },
  {
    "start": 3332.02,
    "end": 3338.54,
    "text": " board have an obvious role in facilitating this cultural change and this reorganization."
  },
  {
    "start": 3338.54,
    "end": 3346.54,
    "text": " I will just finish on this part by saying, I think the biggest topic is in the accounting"
  },
  {
    "start": 3346.54,
    "end": 3357.7,
    "text": " and the finance world because we have been, sometimes, blinded by the long-term practice."
  },
  {
    "start": 3357.7,
    "end": 3364.14,
    "text": " As I just said, I signed accounts for years. We know so well. I mean, we have budgets of"
  },
  {
    "start": 3364.14,
    "end": 3371.54,
    "text": " 25 billion euros on costs and we have a 0.1% margin of room for maneuver in the budget"
  },
  {
    "start": 3371.54,
    "end": 3378.42,
    "text": " to meet our EPS growth every year. We are super good at tracking this thing, mathematical"
  },
  {
    "start": 3378.42,
    "end": 3385.94,
    "text": " thing with provisions, everything else. The fact is, accounting, 80% of accounting is"
  },
  {
    "start": 3385.94,
    "end": 3393.3,
    "text": " estimate. The entries in a double booking is 80% estimate. Academic reviews are saying"
  },
  {
    "start": 3393.3,
    "end": 3399.58,
    "text": " that. That's the truth. There is never a closing on the 31st of December. Soft closing has"
  },
  {
    "start": 3399.58,
    "end": 3404.34,
    "text": " started many months ago in the smallest of the areas around the world. The fact is, you"
  },
  {
    "start": 3404.34,
    "end": 3410.18,
    "text": " have such a robust process, you end up and you're able to design everything in six weeks"
  },
  {
    "start": 3410.18,
    "end": 3418.46,
    "text": " so that the 15th of February, your full accounts are published. It's because you have a process,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3418.46,
    "end": 3424.14,
    "text": " but the nature of accounting is estimate. The revolution is in accounting. The revolution"
  },
  {
    "start": 3424.14,
    "end": 3431.62,
    "text": " we're bringing is open the chakras of accountants around the world. Look at what counts and"
  },
  {
    "start": 3431.62,
    "end": 3437.78,
    "text": " that you do not count and learn again that we need estimates. We need to build processes."
  },
  {
    "start": 3437.78,
    "end": 3443.26,
    "text": " The day we have processes as robust on carbon accounting than we have on dollar accounting,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3443.26,
    "end": 3448.26,
    "text": " we'll be successful. I don't think you have any risk of being wrong, but it's simply that"
  },
  {
    "start": 3448.26,
    "end": 3451.62,
    "text": " it's this new language that we need to rework together."
  },
  {
    "start": 3451.62,
    "end": 3457.86,
    "text": " Yeah. Emmanuel, I would love. If you would see me here, you would see probably another"
  },
  {
    "start": 3457.86,
    "end": 3465.94,
    "text": " 30 pages full of questions. Another five hours would do. Do you allow me one final question?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3465.94,
    "end": 3467.94,
    "text": " Sure."
  },
  {
    "start": 3467.94,
    "end": 3474.66,
    "text": " Because during my research, and we talked about it a bit before, I found last night"
  },
  {
    "start": 3474.66,
    "end": 3482.58,
    "text": " really a breathtaking presentation of yours at Sciences Po, the university in Paris, where"
  },
  {
    "start": 3482.58,
    "end": 3489.38,
    "text": " and you started straight away with, and I quote you, \"If you want to have an impact,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3489.38,
    "end": 3497.9,
    "text": " stay free.\" I thought it was fantastic. Can you just say a couple of words to it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3497.9,
    "end": 3511.34,
    "text": " Yeah, I can try. I think that as you may feel that you have success in your life, you can"
  },
  {
    "start": 3511.34,
    "end": 3517.62,
    "text": " easily become prisoner of that success. It's comfortable and it creates barriers to your"
  },
  {
    "start": 3517.62,
    "end": 3523.78,
    "text": " freedom that may be money, that may be glory, that may be power, whatever that is. All of"
  },
  {
    "start": 3523.78,
    "end": 3531.5,
    "text": " that are making you prisoner. I think we should, yeah, you cannot exercise a leadership in"
  },
  {
    "start": 3531.5,
    "end": 3537.14,
    "text": " your own life and your life cannot be impactful if you don't have that leadership. If you"
  },
  {
    "start": 3537.14,
    "end": 3542.38,
    "text": " want to have impact, you have to stay free. You have to not stay in the center. You have"
  },
  {
    "start": 3542.38,
    "end": 3549.3,
    "text": " to go to the fringes, not stay too long at the same place because it becomes too comfortable."
  },
  {
    "start": 3549.3,
    "end": 3556.54,
    "text": " Go with uncomfortable relationship. Put yourself at risk so that you constantly push the boundary"
  },
  {
    "start": 3556.54,
    "end": 3565.98,
    "text": " and again, you can act in a manner where you do not become part of a static system that"
  },
  {
    "start": 3565.98,
    "end": 3572.62,
    "text": " is just self-justifying its own existence. That's the contrary of having impact. I said"
  },
  {
    "start": 3572.62,
    "end": 3576.86,
    "text": " to these guys, indeed, if you want to have an impact, the first thing you need to do"
  },
  {
    "start": 3576.86,
    "end": 3582.14,
    "text": " and maybe the only is to stay free. Yeah, yeah. It was really wonderful and actually"
  },
  {
    "start": 3582.14,
    "end": 3589.42,
    "text": " to all the listeners who want to listen to it, you find it on Google. Anyway, so Emmanuel,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3589.42,
    "end": 3595.98,
    "text": " that was an absolute fantastic and very, very knowledgeable conversation and I'm really"
  },
  {
    "start": 3595.98,
    "end": 3602.54,
    "text": " glad that you could spare an hour to talk to us. You made me certainly very happy today"
  },
  {
    "start": 3602.54,
    "end": 3609.34,
    "text": " and I hope many, many of our listeners, I wish you all the best for the ISSB and your"
  },
  {
    "start": 3609.34,
    "end": 3620.18,
    "text": " work and the next three or four years up until 27, right? Yes, so far. So thanks a lot."
  },
  {
    "start": 3620.18,
    "end": 3624.9,
    "text": " Thank you, Sibila. Thanks for having us and thank you for having that podcast as I just"
  },
  {
    "start": 3624.9,
    "end": 3629.22,
    "text": " said. I think it's great that you can inspire leaders around the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 3629.22,
    "end": 3635.06,
    "text": " We've been listening to a special English edition of Degorsa Neustadt, a German podcast"
  },
  {
    "start": 3635.06,
    "end": 3640.7,
    "text": " series by Zabilla Barton in which she talks to pioneering leaders who are committed to"
  },
  {
    "start": 3640.7,
    "end": 3650.3,
    "text": " making our world smarter, greener and fairer. For more information, please visit www.zabillabardon.com"
  },
  {
    "start": 3650.3,
    "end": 3653.74,
    "text": " and the official site of the World Economic Forum."
  },
  {
    "start": 3653.74,
    "end": 3656.16,
    "text": " (soft music)"
  },
  {
    "start": 3656.16,
    "end": 3658.74,
    "text": " (gentle music)"
  },
  {
    "start": 3658.74,
    "end": 3661.14,
    "text": " (soft music)"
  }
]