[ { "start": 0.06, "end": 4.32, "text": "What does it take to conduct robust metabolomics and exposomic studies?" }, { "start": 5.58, "end": 15.64, "text": "How can we make the most of existing and future samples from newborn screening, And those building global communities enable the rise of global science." }, { "start": 16.56, "end": 23.54, "text": "These are just a few questions that address in this episode of The Metabolomist with my guest Vinicius Verri-Ernandez." }, { "start": 28.84, "end": 36.54, "text": "Welcome to season five of The where we dive into the communities that are transformed by Metabolomics." }, { "start": 37.56, "end": 47.42, "text": "I am your host, Alice Limonciel and this year i will engage with scientists who not only use Metabolomix but who leverage it for greater good." }, { "start": 48.68, "end": 58.38, "text": "People know that Metabolomex is a tool which holds promise of transforming our society But also understand to deliver on that promise." }, { "start": 58.9, "end": 61.62, "text": "Metabolomic needs be part something greater." }, { "start": 62.62, "end": 70.78, "text": "projects, networks infrastructures they all form around a common goal and make use of the best tools at their disposal." }, { "start": 71.7, "end": 81.06, "text": "So this year in the podcast I talked to passionate people who build communities through any strategy from grassroot movements to decades of networking." }, { "start": 82.0, "end": 88.9, "text": "join me to discover the creations of these community builders And how Metabolomics is helping them advance their mission." }, { "start": 90.86, "end": 92.38, "text": "Welcome back to the Metabolomist." }, { "start": 92.58, "end": 97.16, "text": "Today my guest is Vinicius Veri Hernandez, welcome!" }, { "start": 98.18, "end": 98.76, "text": "Thank you Alice." }, { "start": 98.8, "end": 101.54, "text": "thank you for having me and for inviting me for the podcast." }, { "start": 102.2, "end": 103.66, "text": "Can you tell us where you come from?" }, { "start": 103.96, "end": 106.8, "text": "And a bit about your studies and your work until now." }, { "start": 107.66, "end": 112.84, "text": "Yeah sure so I'm originally from Brazil Where i did big part of my study." }, { "start": 113.02, "end": 116.34, "text": "So my master in half of my PhD was done there." }, { "start": 117.04, "end": 117.42, "text": "And" }, { "start": 117.92, "end": 126.26, "text": "nowadays, I consider myself a small molecule omics person because the beginning of my career was always focused on mass spectrometry." }, { "start": 126.44, "end": 131.68, "text": "So i started in a lab where... The main focus was mass spectrometry in different areas and different fields." }, { "start": 131.76, "end": 136.86, "text": "so we have different groups within the lab working in petroleumics natural products." }, { "start": 137.22, "end": 148.26, "text": "During my master's I worked with a bit more different things like explosives or more focused on forensic analysis And then during my PhD, I already moved to metabolomics." }, { "start": 148.68, "end": 153.98, "text": "Now i'm a senior scientist here at the University of Vienna and the focus is mostly exposomics." }, { "start": 154.08, "end": 159.34, "text": "so...I do apply a lot of the metabolomics methodologies that I have been learning for my career." }, { "start": 159.92, "end": 165.24, "text": "So it's-it's a mix of both nowadays which is very nice because its kind of complementary right?" }, { "start": 165.7, "end": 170.6, "text": "Even if alot of their methods are almost the same not exactly but ALMOST THE SAME." }, { "start": 171.22, "end": 171.44, "text": "Yes!" }, { "start": 171.94, "end": 174.06, "text": "That's how I would frame my work nowadays." }, { "start": 174.9, "end": 178.16, "text": "Today we're going to discuss two papers and which shows these, too." }, { "start": 178.24, "end": 180.6, "text": "To represent a bit the breadth of the work that you do." }, { "start": 180.76, "end": 183.26, "text": "so one is very metabolomics driven in." }, { "start": 183.42, "end": 185.04, "text": "one is more focusing on exposomic." }, { "start": 185.14, "end": 191.34, "text": "So I think it's a good overview of The span of small molecule analysis And some other things can be done with It." }, { "start": 191.94, "end": 201.18, "text": "Very often under podcast We talk about endogenous metabolites But You Can use the same methods to study A broad variety Of materials and applying Two different industries as well." }, { "start": 202.16, "end": 202.9, "text": "Definitely yes." }, { "start": 203.7, "end": 207.42, "text": "Specifically your work, is it more focused on method development?" }, { "start": 207.62, "end": 209.02, "text": "or what the application?" }, { "start": 209.1, "end": 210.06, "text": "because I know for example." }, { "start": 210.12, "end": 215.12, "text": "The first paper we're going to talk about this focusing on a cohort but the second one is more technical." }, { "start": 215.28, "end": 217.08, "text": "so do you do all of its?" }, { "start": 217.12, "end": 219.58, "text": "Or do you specialize in certain type of work?" }, { "start": 220.16, "end": 228.56, "text": "actually yes Because that the paper for example are gonna talk and the dry blood spots is very i would say clear application off the methodology." }, { "start": 228.68, "end": 230.38, "text": "right It's real life application." }, { "start": 231.04, "end": 236.06, "text": "But as I said, my background is more mass spectrometry than anything else." }, { "start": 238.82, "end": 249.54, "text": "So for instance there was a paper that we published two years ago on the development of combined targeted and non-targeted methodology with some new instrumentation." }, { "start": 250.14, "end": 251.72, "text": "so i do like this part." }, { "start": 252.96, "end": 260.899, "text": "Now I have a paper accepted, not out yet in the Metabolomics on a new library for ExpoZomics Compound MSMS Library." }, { "start": 261.38, "end": 267.34, "text": "So let's say i'm navigating through both application and development." }, { "start": 268.44, "end": 268.58, "text": "Yeah!" }, { "start": 268.7, "end": 271.02, "text": "And you're talking about ExpoLib right?" }, { "start": 271.1, "end": 274.84, "text": "Because that is how you present at the Metabilomics Society meeting." }, { "start": 276.24, "end": 279.7, "text": "Towards end of this episode we'll talk more about what communities are involved with." }, { "start": 282.64, "end": 285.32, "text": "Also building libraries is a community effort, in my opinion." }, { "start": 285.44, "end": 288.04, "text": "So what drives you to build those libraries and share them?" }, { "start": 289.14, "end": 292.78, "text": "Well, I think we are in a much better state now with the libraries right?" }, { "start": 293.22, "end": 299.74, "text": "Data is more created but we still miss a lot of compounds and a lot quality data actually." }, { "start": 300.28, "end": 314.2, "text": "So especially in exposomics as i mentioned coming from the metabolomics field only after i started working in exposomics was when i noticed that we don't look too much into that component in our metabolomics studies." }, { "start": 316.94, "end": 318.96, "text": "I would say not that difficult." }, { "start": 319.66, "end": 328.62, "text": "One of the main ideas we had with the expo lead was, We typically work with this set of compounds around two hundred and we are now increasing to three fifty." }, { "start": 329.22, "end": 334.78, "text": "That is very common exposures you will see even in non-targeted studies." }, { "start": 335.38, "end": 350.78, "text": "The idea there was put a tool or something that the metabolomics community could use annotate such compounds and bring more this exposure component to the studies." }, { "start": 351.24, "end": 351.36, "text": "Yeah," }, { "start": 351.96, "end": 364.1, "text": "it's a really great initiative I think because i'm sure there are many scientists or let's say mass spec scientist especially who kind of feel that their methods can be applied to exposomics but they don't have the tools for it." }, { "start": 364.16, "end": 367.34, "text": "so I guess this would be the good tool to help them get into that." }, { "start": 367.5, "end": 368.48, "text": "then they could learn with it." }, { "start": 369.54, "end": 370.56, "text": "Definitely totally agree!" }, { "start": 370.6, "end": 370.68, "text": "That" }, { "start": 370.74, "end": 371.28, "text": "is really great." }, { "start": 371.72, "end": 374.46, "text": "So...I'd start looking at our first paper." }, { "start": 375.26, "end": 383.46, "text": "I really like this one, because i always like studies that look into cohorts and trying to kind of dissect the population." }, { "start": 383.52, "end": 386.52, "text": "And understand what are the drivers of differences?" }, { "start": 386.76, "end": 388.56, "text": "How metabolites match with this?" }, { "start": 389.18, "end": 392.44, "text": "The paper we're going to discuss is from twenty-twenty two year old first author." }, { "start": 393.1, "end": 400.66, "text": "The title is Age Sex Body Mass Index Diet and Menopause Related Metabolite in a Large Homogenous Alpine Cohort." }, { "start": 402.58, "end": 404.82, "text": "So you were working at Italy at the time, right?" }, { "start": 404.94, "end": 407.14, "text": "In South Tyrol which is close to where I am." }, { "start": 410.0, "end": 411.0, "text": "Yeah it's a beautiful place!" }, { "start": 411.5, "end": 412.88, "text": "What was this cohort about?" }, { "start": 413.02, "end": 417.3, "text": "and then how did you work on for these specific papers?" }, { "start": 417.34, "end": 434.52, "text": "So as we mentioned its called the Creece Cohort so competitive health research in South Tyrol And It's a cohort that will start if i'm not mistaken around And it's a very special cohort in the way that is very homogeneous." }, { "start": 434.64, "end": 441.5, "text": "So they recruited participants from Valvenosta Valley or Winschgau, Germany if you want." }, { "start": 442.78, "end": 459.8, "text": "so its'a small town where nowadays I believe around fourteen thousand people are recruited and what we did at this time was to do metabolomics of these participants, so we did targeted and non-targeted." }, { "start": 460.44, "end": 464.78, "text": "And this paper is the first one related to the targeted analysis." }, { "start": 465.36, "end": 466.14, "text": "that's the overview." }, { "start": 466.78, "end": 472.6, "text": "So maybe before we dig into the results you mentioned You did targetted and untargeted metabolomics." }, { "start": 473.38, "end": 474.64, "text": "What was the benefit for you?" }, { "start": 474.7, "end": 476.44, "text": "To do both and not just focus on one?" }, { "start": 477.7, "end": 479.72, "text": "Well definitely the metabolite coverage." }, { "start": 480.44, "end": 490.98, "text": "We had a quite good panel on the targeted around the hundred eighty metabolites but we obviously wanted to increase the coverage and look more." }, { "start": 491.76, "end": 500.14, "text": "For instance, we did not have many metabolites related to energy metabolism for example so they're non-targeted." }, { "start": 500.2, "end": 504.0, "text": "we didn't actually was using Helix or we got more depolar component." }, { "start": 504.54, "end": 507.5, "text": "So it's a very complementary data set I would say." }, { "start": 508.3, "end": 509.06, "text": "For this paper." }, { "start": 509.16, "end": 515.52, "text": "you chose to select a sub-population of that population, about seven thousand participants." }, { "start": 515.64, "end": 518.86, "text": "So what drove the focus on these studies specifically?" }, { "start": 519.62, "end": 531.04, "text": "This as I mentioned was the first paper where we tried to find associations with the metabolite levels and common traits that are seen in the title right age body mass indexes." }, { "start": 531.12, "end": 535.14, "text": "so one the scope of this study, it's much broader." }, { "start": 535.32, "end": 544.44, "text": "Of course because we have biochemical trades and a lot additional health related data to correlate." }, { "start": 545.26, "end": 552.26, "text": "so now more papers are coming out focusing on specific diseases or our health outcomes." }, { "start": 553.26, "end": 560.16, "text": "but in these papers specifically what you try do was see how this metabolites would correlates with traits." }, { "start": 560.8, "end": 567.58, "text": "A lot of what we found there was actually already described in the literature." }, { "start": 567.98, "end": 583.56, "text": "So it's a kind of validation of that data, basic example everyone knows creatinine levels are higher than male so you could see this difference as one of most significant and also find additional associations which were not reported before." }, { "start": 590.26, "end": 596.74, "text": "But one thing I found interesting because the usual traits that people look at are age, sex body mass index and things like this." }, { "start": 596.8, "end": 603.8, "text": "But menopause these days is becoming more of a topic but still it's not what usually makes the top-of-the list." }, { "start": 603.88, "end": 606.18, "text": "so What made you choose that characteristic?" }, { "start": 606.92, "end": 617.18, "text": "Yeah That was an interesting one Because The first analysis we did Was if you have seven thousand participants You want to use as much data As possible." }, { "start": 618.46, "end": 625.84, "text": "But when you compare, let's say premenopausal and post-menopause women of course there is an influence on age obviously." }, { "start": 626.2, "end": 656.04, "text": "So in a second step what we try to do I'm saying because Johannes Reiner who was leading this initiative the person behind it was to select these aged period from forty nine to fifty seven years where you could try to eliminate a bit the influence of the age component and then compare even if it's smaller group, trying to find differences that would be more solid." }, { "start": 656.7, "end": 675.12, "text": "And in the end like... If I remember right one of the metabolites was not anymore associated when we did this smaller analysis with these smaller dataset but most are defined as actually did reproduce in this smaller." }, { "start": 675.92, "end": 680.92, "text": "And I think it's because, as you said... It is something that people do not look at too much." }, { "start": 681.5, "end": 691.5, "text": "so we were curious to see if there was any kind of metabolic differences that could be new and correlated with let us say these perimenopausal periods?" }, { "start": 692.42, "end": 700.04, "text": "So the age stage where they are between those two periods of pre-emposement opalsum." }, { "start": 700.1, "end": 707.18, "text": "So you compared to different cohorts that already used metabolomics and found a lot of things that were similar." }, { "start": 707.86, "end": 718.96, "text": "But in the end, what are looking at is a cohort as you said very homogenous from kind of small geographic location with not a lot exchange I would expect other regions of the world." }, { "start": 719.08, "end": 720.72, "text": "so did it surprise you?" }, { "start": 721.28, "end": 722.42, "text": "there was such large overlap?" }, { "start": 722.54, "end": 729.2, "text": "because we're always talking about huge differences in metabolism between different regions of the world if only from." }, { "start": 729.78, "end": 733.64, "text": "The dietary habits, just a lifestyle and so on plus the genetics on top?" }, { "start": 733.74, "end": 735.52, "text": "So was it more than you would?" }, { "start": 735.8, "end": 737.32, "text": "we were expecting more overlap?" }, { "start": 738.82, "end": 739.86, "text": "I wouldn't say so." }, { "start": 740.46, "end": 743.38, "text": "And uh i think that's basically because of two reasons." }, { "start": 743.46, "end": 754.5, "text": "one is Because the metabolites when looked at they are very typically let's stable and well known to be different, no matter which type of population you look at." }, { "start": 754.62, "end": 759.2, "text": "So this was not too surprising And I don't know if there's a component there." }, { "start": 759.36, "end": 766.08, "text": "but one direction my mind goes when thinking about that is A lot of these studies are out." }, { "start": 767.26, "end": 773.5, "text": "they are overrepresented in terms of European populations and more rich countries." }, { "start": 774.08, "end": 780.04, "text": "So I believe this is also a component that we cannot, let's say ignore." }, { "start": 780.72, "end": 796.3, "text": "it was actually good for us to see so many correlations that were already described because then we said look looks like our data makes sense And we can move forward and try To find the More correlations and associations with different diseases." }, { "start": 798.22, "end": 805.82, "text": "You mentioned that one of the difficulties was the overlap between the effects on menopause and age, for obvious reasons." }, { "start": 806.9, "end": 813.28, "text": "One question I really like to ask when we talk about a paper is always what were those things that kind of complicated your work?" }, { "start": 813.36, "end": 814.48, "text": "so beside that aspect?" }, { "start": 815.0, "end": 824.76, "text": "And it can go from the structure of data analysis into some logistic issues with sample processing Can you remember something that comes to mind?" }, { "start": 824.86, "end": 825.04, "text": "where?" }, { "start": 825.58, "end": 829.1, "text": "You really had an issue and you managed to solve it because I always try too." }, { "start": 829.38, "end": 832.76, "text": "To give some ideas also for the audience on what could help them." }, { "start": 833.28, "end": 840.92, "text": "well, I think in a study like that is just not expected of everything will run smoothly from the beginning into the end right." }, { "start": 841.36, "end": 850.94, "text": "Just to give you a number we have in total with these seven thousand participants we had roughly ninety, ninety-six well plates to run." }, { "start": 851.54, "end": 854.58, "text": "So this is not a few plates you know." }, { "start": 854.76, "end": 864.0, "text": "and besides that the data we acquired was both using LCMS but also the flow injection analysis Sophia." }, { "start": 864.84, "end": 867.22, "text": "so each analysis would be let's say two analyses." }, { "start": 867.28, "end": 880.62, "text": "in end I think one of the challenges keep it going in the sense that you are sure your mass spec is running well, to do proper system suitability." }, { "start": 882.74, "end": 899.04, "text": "In our case for instance if one plate would I don't know completely go wrong and we could not rerun because we were trying not to rerun a place where they weren't there before too We did have some backup plates." }, { "start": 899.58, "end": 906.44, "text": "so If i remember correctly plates in total per participant or part of the study." }, { "start": 907.04, "end": 913.72, "text": "So there was some backup, but of course if... The goal is not to use them right?" }, { "start": 913.82, "end": 916.9, "text": "It's really be a back up that maybe you can use for something else." }, { "start": 917.14, "end": 917.54, "text": "yeah um" }, { "start": 918.12, "end": 923.38, "text": "so the main challenge I think it was at least in the data acquisition part was keep running smoothly." }, { "start": 924.04, "end": 933.24, "text": "uh we had this as i said expected sometime with instruments The thing that you try to fix yourself, otherwise the company comes." }, { "start": 934.16, "end": 943.28, "text": "But yeah if I would have a solution or at least an advice with this system suitability and quality control check because it's really important for such studies." }, { "start": 944.6, "end": 952.52, "text": "Yeah i think especially for cohorts so other types of studies where you have so many samples and you want to be able to compare them all." }, { "start": 953.12, "end": 957.46, "text": "This is when we focus your attention, it's great that you managed to figure this out!" }, { "start": 958.7, "end": 969.86, "text": "And even if you do a good job there would be differences... So these were the challenges Johannes had later on with proper normalization and looking into those." }, { "start": 970.36, "end": 974.08, "text": "That was also a challenge but that was last on my hands I'd say." }, { "start": 975.96, "end": 977.6, "text": "But yeah important as well." }, { "start": 978.28, "end": 981.08, "text": "Anything else you want to tell us about this paper, about the study?" }, { "start": 982.5, "end": 988.94, "text": "Well I think it's a nice study... ...to showcase the power of these big cohorts." }, { "start": 989.66, "end": 998.28, "text": "As i said back then one of the largest cohorts we had in terms of single location which was super nice." }, { "start": 998.76, "end": 1005.92, "text": "There were other findings, I would just invite the people to read their paper because one for example that i can mention comes from my mind." }, { "start": 1006.42, "end": 1007.84, "text": "That was really interesting to see." }, { "start": 1008.74, "end": 1021.52, "text": "there is a significant association of serotonin with age and we could even estimate at least within this population what it was let's say drop Serotonin per year." }, { "start": 1021.7, "end": 1027.099, "text": "So it was almost zero point nine percent a year, that serotonin would drop." }, { "start": 1027.2, "end": 1034.599, "text": "so of course we need to consider many other things and that doesn't itself explain any story." }, { "start": 1035.28, "end": 1054.5, "text": "but you know its nice higher herbal tea consumption was one of the strongest associations we had, which I'm also curious to see even if you would correct for decisionality." }, { "start": 1055.28, "end": 1061.4, "text": "So there are some really interesting findings on that paper so i invite everyone read it!" }, { "start": 1062.36, "end": 1077.28, "text": "Yeah this is always a fun part looking at these papers in large populations where are telling them the herbal tea and you go, what does that mean?" }, { "start": 1077.32, "end": 1078.4, "text": "Where is that coming" }, { "start": 1078.5, "end": 1078.74, "text": "from?\"." }, { "start": 1079.34, "end": 1081.72, "text": "And then suddenly want to know what kind of herbs." }, { "start": 1082.32, "end": 1086.74, "text": "Yes definitely one hundred percent!" }, { "start": 1086.86, "end": 1109.0, "text": "If I may compliment another thing comes through my mind also this data actually now available not only let's say in a metabolomics repository, but there is actually the Chris Portal which you can request access to data and people also use that data to dig into other traits or diseases." }, { "start": 1109.8, "end": 1111.6, "text": "So I think it's very valuable resource" }, { "start": 1112.56, "end": 1112.82, "text": "Yes!" }, { "start": 1113.04, "end": 1117.88, "text": "And we are always looking for these connections with communities." }, { "start": 1117.96, "end": 1122.84, "text": "this year very active community between cohorts." }, { "start": 1123.0, "end": 1133.1, "text": "I think when you organize such large complex projects, it's really become a habit now that people try to share as much possible and connect as much as possible with other cohorts." }, { "start": 1133.26, "end": 1139.54, "text": "so everyone either has their own portals or tries to have data hosted on other portals." }, { "start": 1139.72, "end": 1146.82, "text": "It is great because then we can compare, do meta-analyses of more datasets." }, { "start": 1147.58, "end": 1149.48, "text": "Definitely, it's a good direction to go." }, { "start": 1149.92, "end": 1150.46, "text": "Absolutely!" }, { "start": 1151.02, "end": 1153.08, "text": "I think we're ready to discuss the second paper." }, { "start": 1153.72, "end": 1157.18, "text": "Okay So now were moving into the field of Exposomics." }, { "start": 1157.68, "end": 1163.9, "text": "so similar methods but different types of analytes you are looking for even though You can combine two together Of course." }, { "start": 1164.34, "end": 1166.22, "text": "and this one is little bit more technical." }, { "start": 1166.86, "end": 1175.3, "text": "We look at dried blood spots And the title is Dried Blood Spots Analysis for Targeted and Non-Targeted Exposomics." }, { "start": 1175.34, "end": 1192.32, "text": "This is from twenty twenty five, so as I said it's much more technical which also super interesting because i think this one of best ways not just to help people adopt methods but also understand which parts of the method is most interesting for them, what they can gain and lose with different setups." }, { "start": 1192.9, "end": 1194.52, "text": "What was your goal in this paper?" }, { "start": 1194.92, "end": 1194.96, "text": "are" }, { "start": 1202.24, "end": 1205.92, "text": "dried blood spots feasible for multi-analyte exposomics, right?" }, { "start": 1206.0, "end": 1210.6, "text": "Because there are many studies that already show the use of dry blood spots." }, { "start": 1210.7, "end": 1216.9, "text": "For I don't know maybe bisphenols or nicotine or other let's say exposure compounds." }, { "start": 1217.84, "end": 1225.38, "text": "but with this broad coverage that we try to bring in the paper i think it's the first one of its kind." }, { "start": 1225.5, "end": 1233.72, "text": "so the idea was again when we look at these two hundred and some analytes that we have here in-house, which typically look at." }, { "start": 1234.66, "end": 1240.0, "text": "The idea was to see are those feasible to be analyzed in dry blood spots?" }, { "start": 1240.08, "end": 1244.14, "text": "Of course there's the quantitative aspect which can talk about later." }, { "start": 1244.62, "end": 1251.82, "text": "but the main idea is compare for different extraction procedures and look at compound recovery or matrix effects." }, { "start": 1253.28, "end": 1260.08, "text": "it wasn't a full validation but we looked into all these figures of merits to say, look I don't know." }, { "start": 1260.44, "end": 1268.0, "text": "Eighty percent of the compounds do work fine and can really use dry blood spots for that or this class of compounds are not good enough." }, { "start": 1269.48, "end": 1271.12, "text": "so it was a feasibility study." }, { "start": 1273.74, "end": 1274.7, "text": "at the same time yes?" }, { "start": 1276.14, "end": 1277.72, "text": "We've also worked with dried blood spots." }, { "start": 1277.78, "end": 1285.48, "text": "so for metabolites and lipids My feeling working with that matrix is it's really, really useful." }, { "start": 1286.06, "end": 1289.18, "text": "also just the possibility to sample people at home." }, { "start": 1289.22, "end": 1291.64, "text": "That they don't have to go to hospital or doctor." }, { "start": 1291.96, "end": 1294.04, "text": "so its valuable as a society level." }, { "start": 1294.68, "end": 1298.9, "text": "but my feeling what you can't do with it?" }, { "start": 1299.82, "end": 1301.84, "text": "That's a fair assessment." }, { "start": 1304.46, "end": 1314.1, "text": "And again, that was also one of the things we wanted to say in the paper like these Of course, it's not the perfect sample type." }, { "start": 1314.26, "end": 1320.3, "text": "But as long as you know the limitations and how far you can get It is good enough." }, { "start": 1320.5, "end": 1333.14, "text": "And if I may also mention of course nowadays You might have better options than the drive lot spots cards The Wattman cards because you have a lot of new micro sampling devices that are more quantitative and so on." }, { "start": 1333.9, "end": 1340.64, "text": "But the idea is we went for dry blood spots, those samples were available in newborn screening." }, { "start": 1341.66, "end": 1352.98, "text": "We wanted to move it in this direction but now running samples from newborn screening here in Austria which was why we decided choose" }, { "start": 1353.06, "end": 1353.52, "text": "the dry blood spot." }, { "start": 1353.56, "end": 1357.5, "text": "And it's great because I mean, this is applicable to most countries in the world now." }, { "start": 1357.54, "end": 1370.24, "text": "Because a lot of countries run these newborn screening for decades now and there are people running metabolomics on samples that were collected ten-twenty years ago on dried blood spots?" }, { "start": 1371.22, "end": 1380.04, "text": "So the question is can you also look for exposures now retrospectively into those samples which bio banks or hospitals full of them?" }, { "start": 1380.98, "end": 1381.58, "text": "Yeah, definitely." }, { "start": 1381.9, "end": 1388.1, "text": "That's the question we are also asking ourselves so we do not have the answer yet But that would be an idea." }, { "start": 1389.08, "end": 1394.68, "text": "For instance, we have a study now that's running on plasma samples from a cohort in Italy." }, { "start": 1394.88, "end": 1402.0, "text": "they collected sample before and after women developed breast cancer And these are samples coming form the eighties." }, { "start": 1402.46, "end": 1410.76, "text": "So very likely there were different exposures back then than exposure as you see right now." }, { "start": 1411.72, "end": 1415.24, "text": "This is definitely something interesting to look into the dry blood spots." }, { "start": 1415.94, "end": 1418.22, "text": "Of course, more questions and limitations come." }, { "start": 1418.38, "end": 1427.32, "text": "But again as long as you know what's feasible in whats not I think it is very much doable And a very interesting thing to pursue." }, { "start": 1427.9, "end": 1434.8, "text": "i would encourage the audience To really look into your paper In detail so that they can understand What fits best for their science." }, { "start": 1434.86, "end": 1436.16, "text": "but For yourself?" }, { "start": 1437.58, "end": 1441.86, "text": "The main things You learned or like the highlights That you keep from that study I" }, { "start": 1443.94, "end": 1462.12, "text": "was actually surprised to see how well most of the analytes worked, so especially when we look at the compound recovery and the matrix effects it wasn't as bad someone might imagine because you have a dry blood." }, { "start": 1462.18, "end": 1473.44, "text": "You've got the card with lots things in there that are really getting away from your analysis But most of the compounds we looked at were quite good in terms of stability." }, { "start": 1473.54, "end": 1487.44, "text": "We spiked on different levels also to see if there was an effect there, so I think that what we took from it is okay this is doable and know which compounds are working or more tricky." }, { "start": 1490.54, "end": 1498.5, "text": "And as i said thats whats doing now at the moment running a seven hundred and fifty samples from The Newborn Screening here in Austria." }, { "start": 1500.34, "end": 1506.04, "text": "Keep an eye on their work because soon hopefully next year we'll have more news related to that!" }, { "start": 1507.34, "end": 1515.24, "text": "And I'm wondering, because as we discussed newborn screening samples often are kept at various temperature levels for many years." }, { "start": 1515.84, "end": 1523.98, "text": "So are there any models already that kind of predicts how quickly different chemical structures degrade over time?" }, { "start": 1524.2, "end": 1524.92, "text": "Does that exist" }, { "start": 1525.7, "end": 1525.76, "text": "in?" }, { "start": 1525.9, "end": 1526.64, "text": "not really." }, { "start": 1527.16, "end": 1533.48, "text": "this is definitely something you need to look into especially if we decide to go for these more retrospective analysis." }, { "start": 1534.38, "end": 1536.48, "text": "what i could imagine?" }, { "start": 1536.76, "end": 1542.42, "text": "a lot of these compounds that we look at, at least some of the compounds they are called this forever chemicals." }, { "start": 1542.52, "end": 1554.06, "text": "They're compounds not to degrade no matter what you do with them and people trying to develop methods for degrade then as I said it's part of the components we looked at anyway." }, { "start": 1556.12, "end": 1561.48, "text": "but i would guess many of those compounds have quite stable." }, { "start": 1563.68, "end": 1578.8, "text": "And another thing we have to consider and really dig into is... Okay, even if they are stable as you mentioned these samples are just stored there for ten fifteen years room temperature in a cabinet." }, { "start": 1579.3, "end": 1579.5, "text": "You know?" }, { "start": 1579.68, "end": 1585.34, "text": "They're still being exposed to things from the air or people touching the cards." }, { "start": 1586.3, "end": 1592.34, "text": "so this is also component that we need to understand how it's influencing the samples and results." }, { "start": 1593.88, "end": 1599.16, "text": "Yeah, these are all the fun investigation points that you get to play with when you're playing an experiment." }, { "start": 1599.2, "end": 1599.24, "text": "And" }, { "start": 1600.24, "end": 1604.38, "text": "and that's why I love to work on this kind of samples because they are challenging in a way." }, { "start": 1604.54, "end": 1609.66, "text": "there is lot questions unanswered so i think theres alot space for research there." }, { "start": 1610.42, "end": 1612.84, "text": "So You went from Metabolomics to Exposomics." }, { "start": 1612.9, "end": 1621.44, "text": "if may simplify it that way When you go into the interpretation part like where do really try to understand what going onto system or cohort?" }, { "start": 1622.4, "end": 1629.94, "text": "Is it a different game to try and imagine the story when you're purely looking at the endogenous metabolites?" }, { "start": 1629.98, "end": 1636.92, "text": "or where are you starting to combine different exposures, like amplifying backstories of your samples?" }, { "start": 1638.58, "end": 1639.1, "text": "I think so." }, { "start": 1641.74, "end": 1642.82, "text": "kind of different view." }, { "start": 1642.96, "end": 1643.14, "text": "right." }, { "start": 1643.26, "end": 1646.94, "text": "there are different statistical methods and tools that people used to do." }, { "start": 1647.94, "end": 1654.24, "text": "So, when we talk about exposure one thing is just let's say report okay?" }, { "start": 1654.36, "end": 1655.3, "text": "We found these and this." }, { "start": 1656.72, "end": 1662.66, "text": "But ultimately, our goal is typically to try and find correlations or associations with some health outcome." }, { "start": 1662.8, "end": 1665.58, "text": "Or whatever disease you are interested in." }, { "start": 1665.76, "end": 1682.18, "text": "so You have to find ways To consider for example toxicity daily limiting takes And things like that into your let's say statistical models or mixture models because you need Exposures do not happen once at a time right?" }, { "start": 1682.46, "end": 1684.32, "text": "They're combination they interact." }, { "start": 1685.38, "end": 1691.16, "text": "All these kind of factors are things that we typically don't need to worry too much about in metabolomics." }, { "start": 1691.68, "end": 1700.32, "text": "So it's a different perspective, and we're also trying to get into the direction where not only can you detect exposures but try to find important associations." }, { "start": 1701.76, "end": 1709.48, "text": "because this doesn't mean if one hundred exposure compounds in your plasma all have an impact" }, { "start": 1709.98, "end": 1710.04, "text": "so..." }, { "start": 1711.18, "end": 1714.0, "text": "That is difficult components to get like." }, { "start": 1714.12, "end": 1715.74, "text": "what is really important in there?" }, { "start": 1716.86, "end": 1716.98, "text": "Yeah." }, { "start": 1717.7, "end": 1724.92, "text": "And speaking of these associations, if you take the question from maybe the other side where... From which I would typically take it." }, { "start": 1724.96, "end": 1734.66, "text": "so If You start form the exposure and want look at effects on humans for example Would metabolomics be first omic that you combine with or do you start something else?" }, { "start": 1736.64, "end": 1739.44, "text": "Well, I'm biased to say because... Yeah fair enough." }, { "start": 1740.42, "end": 1746.94, "text": "...I would definitely go for mutableomics but uh i think that are for example epigenetics changes that can happen." }, { "start": 1747.12, "end": 1748.96, "text": "so there are groups." }, { "start": 1749.08, "end": 1751.56, "text": "we don't work on that specifically in here." }, { "start": 1751.7, "end": 1755.88, "text": "But I know of many other groups For example IS Global in Barcelona." }, { "start": 1755.96, "end": 1761.32, "text": "they are doing a lot of transcriptomics genomics and other types of omics." }, { "start": 1761.78, "end": 1763.88, "text": "So if you- I think all layers important." }, { "start": 1765.24, "end": 1770.36, "text": "But again, metabolomics the closest one to the phyllo type that typical story." }, { "start": 1770.9, "end": 1776.64, "text": "To conclude on this paper because this is a podcast probably mostly listened to by people from metabolomics." }, { "start": 1776.7, "end": 1784.92, "text": "so someone who would want for example use dried bloodspots too For both metabolomics and exposomics I would encourage them first look at these papers." }, { "start": 1784.96, "end": 1790.8, "text": "but Would you have any advice like The First Things to Think About or The First things to Consider?" }, { "start": 1792.78, "end": 1794.72, "text": "I would come back to know the limitations." }, { "start": 1795.0, "end": 1800.08, "text": "So as i said, dried blood spots are not the easiest sample to work with." }, { "start": 1800.66, "end": 1805.18, "text": "but you have to know that it's typically not quantitative right?" }, { "start": 1805.22, "end": 1811.84, "text": "For example a very simple example like when we wanted... When we wanted to do the recovery estimation for our compounds." }, { "start": 1812.6, "end": 1815.24, "text": "if you do recovery you'll have to have a pre-spiked sample." }, { "start": 1815.76, "end": 1817.1, "text": "How do we spike this sample?" }, { "start": 1817.16, "end": 1821.22, "text": "Do we spike the DBS directly on the card." }, { "start": 1821.34, "end": 1823.58, "text": "Do you spike the blood and put it in the cards?" }, { "start": 1823.64, "end": 1855.56, "text": "so there's still no sort of more harmonized guideline, how to look into these... So an advice I would give is first read a lot about dry blood spots know the limitations but also for metabolomics its quite well implemented as There's a very nice group of people doing a lot off the technical, let say development for metabolomics and dried blood spots within the Human Doctoral Network." }, { "start": 1856.82, "end": 1860.84, "text": "Just look at what other people are doing because it is always good starting step!" }, { "start": 1861.8, "end": 1862.9, "text": "Yes... Very Good Advice." }, { "start": 1863.86, "end": 1870.8, "text": "So, I think we're ready to move into one of the last parts over our discussion where really focus on communities." }, { "start": 1870.88, "end": 1874.52, "text": "that you are a part and some community is building as well." }, { "start": 1875.14, "end": 1881.2, "text": "From paper were talking about it would start with Irene because this is an exposomics community." }, { "start": 1881.86, "end": 1884.94, "text": "University Vienna is also contributing too." }, { "start": 1885.0, "end": 1887.36, "text": "so can tell us little bit about Irene?" }, { "start": 1892.18, "end": 1900.0, "text": "Yeah, so Irene actually stands for European Infrastructure For Human Exposome and as the name says it's a research infrastructure." }, { "start": 1900.08, "end": 1920.5, "text": "So for me was also something new when I joined Irene because i did not have yet this concept of their research infrastructures which are not typical let's say european project but it's something that is supposed to last very long term and become a legal entity actually." }, { "start": 1921.14, "end": 1930.52, "text": "And the idea of the research infrastructures, they would provide state-of-the art services for people doing whatever research they are focusing in." }, { "start": 1931.96, "end": 1935.76, "text": "so was a very nice thing to see how it developed." }, { "start": 1935.98, "end": 1947.2, "text": "because when I started working here, uh...I was right away within Arine and that was the year we kind of launched the Austrian node of Arine." }, { "start": 1947.68, "end": 1954.68, "text": "So let's say i saw from beginning And basically idea at European level." }, { "start": 1954.78, "end": 1963.56, "text": "so its a pan-European initiative with not sure now many countries but i would guess fifteen or twenty countries in Europe and more countries outside." }, { "start": 1964.26, "end": 1978.86, "text": "And the idea is, as I said that we develop all the methodologies that we do harmonization and later on become a legal entity in Europe who's able to provide services for anyone or community that wants to use this service." }, { "start": 1979.12, "end": 1979.18, "text": "so" }, { "start": 1982.1, "end": 1994.02, "text": "it's really smart model because you mentioned different from what people understand European project, so the European Union funds a lot of research." }, { "start": 1994.54, "end": 2011.78, "text": "But this is really the next step where it's I think leveraging the scientific communities that has funded and helps them to build in-the-ends money making infrastructures support standardized or let say harmonized science across different countries." }, { "start": 2012.96, "end": 2016.9, "text": "cool initiative and a really smart idea I think." }, { "start": 2017.48, "end": 2023.66, "text": "Yeah, one of the main components that is sustainable ideas." }, { "start": 2023.84, "end": 2027.2, "text": "so it will be there for people to use." }, { "start": 2028.66, "end": 2035.54, "text": "The goal is also not that it works as a sort of core facility where people require the access and pay for it." }, { "start": 2037.48, "end": 2042.02, "text": "That can be done, but there's another type of access called an open-access." }, { "start": 2042.64, "end": 2055.84, "text": "People just apply with projects which are selected and these are actually fully covered because they're funded by different governments that agree to be on board of a read." }, { "start": 2056.06, "end": 2070.76, "text": "So, it's also very interesting let say model to keep the sustainability and at the same time help researchers who maybe across the globe do not have the funding or capacities for such type services." }, { "start": 2071.719, "end": 2075.32, "text": "It means scientists from non-European countries can apply?" }, { "start": 2076.3, "end": 2076.84, "text": "Definitely!" }, { "start": 2077.239, "end": 2086.179, "text": "And nowadays researches and institutions outside of Europe are also actually formally part of a ring." }, { "start": 2086.42, "end": 2097.2, "text": "So you have people from the US, where you have also big community there for exposomics within the Nexus initiative but you had people from Japan and Australia or Canada." }, { "start": 2097.36, "end": 2108.56, "text": "so it's really becoming a global initiative even if its let say European focused in a way started in Europe But is supposed to be a real global initiative." }, { "start": 2109.4, "end": 2114.1, "text": "And I find it really interesting because with exposomics, it quickly gets global." }, { "start": 2115.66, "end": 2127.52, "text": "It's something that i haven't seen in many scientific communities and like toxins and environmental things kind of travel quickly?" }, { "start": 2128.1, "end": 2136.0, "text": "Or is it a consequence or science coming off age at the time when maybe scientists are better connected, what's your feeling about this." }, { "start": 2136.52, "end": 2149.32, "text": "I think both often influence so as you said these environmental component that is much more within the exposure to the exposomics science definitely helps make it global." }, { "start": 2149.42, "end": 2149.68, "text": "right." }, { "start": 2150.7, "end": 2158.44, "text": "one thing i can notice between two communities The exposomics communities has much more of a political agenda, right?" }, { "start": 2158.56, "end": 2160.88, "text": "Because it's connected to climate change." }, { "start": 2161.34, "end": 2171.94, "text": "And also because when I think about metabolomics the community doing metabolomics is basically yes LC-MS GC-MS NMR Community Doing this kind." }, { "start": 2172.32, "end": 2176.44, "text": "Of course you have biologists and all different know house within it." }, { "start": 2177.08, "end": 2188.0, "text": "But this is much, much more broad within the Exposomics community because you have people doing I don't know working with satellite data that are doing Exposomics literally." }, { "start": 2188.06, "end": 2194.14, "text": "The name is Exposomic so it's a much more diverse Community and i think That helps in making it global." }, { "start": 2195.26, "end": 2203.92, "text": "Yeah And for the audience we should specify really the exposon goes far beyond chemical exposures that we measure with mass spec or with NMR." }, { "start": 2204.54, "end": 2216.6, "text": "There's also psychosocial impacts and things like this, it's really trying to get all the influences that will be to some extent measured in your metabolome." }, { "start": 2216.7, "end": 2230.68, "text": "so you can also say stress is something you could measure in the metabolom –the impact of it– but there are tools to measure these different exposures different omics or different biological measures together." }, { "start": 2230.88, "end": 2241.2, "text": "So it's really a fascinating field, that's why I never tire of talking to people from the explosive fields because i think it ties really nicely with metabolomics as I mentioned before because we're not biased at all!" }, { "start": 2241.24, "end": 2244.24, "text": "Yes definitely..." }, { "start": 2244.28, "end": 2255.64, "text": "Not at all..I totally agree with you that uh its such diverse world exposomics and you mentioned that people working with the social aspects." }, { "start": 2256.16, "end": 2259.58, "text": "You can do exposomics, let's say only on a questionnaire base." }, { "start": 2259.68, "end": 2265.24, "text": "this is also expose omics if your can get exposure based on our questionnaire for example." }, { "start": 2265.32, "end": 2268.38, "text": "so it's very diverse and interesting fields." }, { "start": 2268.72, "end": 2268.86, "text": "yeah" }, { "start": 2270.86, "end": 2275.64, "text": "there's probably a link for people to send their proposal, the samples that we measure." }, { "start": 2275.68, "end": 2276.58, "text": "Does it exist already?" }, { "start": 2277.22, "end": 2277.66, "text": "Yes and no!" }, { "start": 2277.9, "end": 2288.84, "text": "So here in Austria... We are offering services but they're still in format where you have pay-a-fee to do so." }, { "start": 2289.54, "end": 2298.76, "text": "Of course some of us welcome to get in touch with them But we also don't have open access formats And this is going to come in the next year." }, { "start": 2298.92, "end": 2315.84, "text": "So let's say, that time frame of Irene it's roughly twenty years for their research infrastructure to be implemented and we just passed the preparatory phase which was five years and now starting implementation phase." }, { "start": 2316.36, "end": 2328.94, "text": "so these are stage where really solidify the methods we harmonize on then go through operational phase which will have the open access and everything running more smoothly." }, { "start": 2329.48, "end": 2335.86, "text": "So for scientists who would like to follow the developments of Irene, how would you recommend that they stay in touch?" }, { "start": 2336.82, "end": 2338.78, "text": "Well I think their website is there." }, { "start": 2339.0, "end": 2339.94, "text": "it's the easiest way." }, { "start": 2340.42, "end": 2347.36, "text": "They also have a newsletter if i'm not mistaken Also in Exposome Austria That's the name of our national hub." }, { "start": 2347.56, "end": 2359.0, "text": "We do have a newsletter that we only send twice a year, so you're not spending people every month and off course we share also updates from European levels or from their in-levels." }, { "start": 2360.02, "end": 2364.66, "text": "I would also invite people to subscribe to that and get in touch." }, { "start": 2365.14, "end": 2369.78, "text": "Yeah Okay well put link on both the episode page So people can find it easily." }, { "start": 2369.9, "end": 2370.18, "text": "Thank You!" }, { "start": 2373.2, "end": 2374.94, "text": "Exposure makes communities you're part of." }, { "start": 2375.26, "end": 2375.32, "text": "Yeah," }, { "start": 2375.56, "end": 2382.92, "text": "so one community that I think is very interesting to bring in the so-called IHAN ambassadors." }, { "start": 2383.4, "end": 2397.8, "text": "So IHAN is The International Human Exposome Network and what they did was a very nice program That they selected people all over the globe And this really it Was one of the first initiatives I participated at." }, { "start": 2397.84, "end": 2411.34, "text": "but i could feel really the global aspect where they selected these so-called ambassadors that would, let's say get everyone together discuss the limitations and exposomics around the globe." }, { "start": 2411.84, "end": 2423.64, "text": "Get people trained in the format of train the trainers So People could go back to their regions And really implement The things That They Learned and get the local communities developed." }, { "start": 2425.84, "end": 2428.58, "text": "I was one the people participating there." }, { "start": 2429.04, "end": 2438.5, "text": "It was a very nice experience to me, we are meeting again now in November and I think a lot of nice things are already coming out from that so different trainings and webinars." }, { "start": 2440.34, "end": 2447.22, "text": "But I wanted to highlight that because it was a very nice and important initiative from my perspective." }, { "start": 2448.06, "end": 2456.6, "text": "Thank you, And it's also interesting in the first episode of this season we had Lea Métres as our guest when she mentioned the eye-hand ambassadors is something she was really excited about!" }, { "start": 2458.32, "end": 2467.98, "text": "And this brings us on a parallel track to one of your personal initiatives with some of your colleagues where you decided to build a Brazilian metabolomics community." }, { "start": 2468.56, "end": 2470.86, "text": "Can you tell us how you came into doing this?" }, { "start": 2471.7, "end": 2482.84, "text": "I think the motivation for me was that, as i said ,I was doing my master in PhD in Brazil but then around seven eight years ago I moved to Europe." }, { "start": 2482.9, "end": 2504.16, "text": "so And with that, I could feel like i was more integrated to the for example the Metabolomics now the Exposomics but The Metabolomics community because of course you have more opportunities To meet people who go to conferences and funding is better Things Like That." }, { "start": 2504.28, "end": 2506.82, "text": "so it Was really a pity For me every time." }, { "start": 2506.86, "end": 2511.94, "text": "I would Go for example to Metabolomic's conference and knowing how many good researchers?" }, { "start": 2512.52, "end": 2520.4, "text": "We Have in Brazil doing metabolomics then none Of them could be there and basically not because they didn't want but because of funding." }, { "start": 2520.5, "end": 2529.14, "text": "or when I started to see all the regional societies that were built within the metabolomics community, i said well we need something like that in Brazil." }, { "start": 2529.2, "end": 2530.66, "text": "We need to connect with people." }, { "start": 2530.76, "end": 2543.62, "text": "uh because we are also in a scenario that exactly because of this lack of funding and support many times we...we need to find ways to collaborate successfully done." }, { "start": 2543.8, "end": 2554.5, "text": "So what I did basically, this was a sort of pandemic project because it started in everyone had their own pandemic projects so i also have mine." }, { "start": 2554.9, "end": 2565.42, "text": "uh...so I basically created the website at that time which is still live and updated And I started shooting out emails to people who are new doing metabolomics in Brazil." }, { "start": 2565.52, "end": 2566.82, "text": "Luke, we need you get together." }, { "start": 2567.12, "end": 2568.22, "text": "just register here." }, { "start": 2568.7, "end": 2578.72, "text": "We're starting organizing webinars and trainings and we also had a forum where people could post some doubts and other People Could Answer things like that." }, { "start": 2579.74, "end": 2580.98, "text": "So it started Like That!" }, { "start": 2581.46, "end": 2596.68, "text": "And i think one of the important components is everything would be done in Portuguese because Again, unfortunately it's not a reality that one hundred percent of the people are comfortable with English or fluent in English." }, { "start": 2596.76, "end": 2597.9, "text": "So there is also barrier." }, { "start": 2598.16, "end": 2601.52, "text": "we have Also bringing information to." }, { "start": 2601.68, "end": 2606.82, "text": "let us say our mother tongue was important and It really took off." }, { "start": 2607.0, "end": 2611.02, "text": "so nowadays We had more than one thousand and one hundred people registered." }, { "start": 2614.58, "end": 2620.62, "text": "We already hosted two or three different courses on basic metabolomics, data analysis and things like that." }, { "start": 2620.72, "end": 2628.68, "text": "And we actually recorded all of them... ...we have a YouTube channel where you can put all the webinars in there." }, { "start": 2629.2, "end": 2632.2, "text": "so I think now it's very valuable resource." }, { "start": 2632.9, "end": 2638.64, "text": "Yeah, so I'm really proud that i could start that and I am very thankful for the people who helped me." }, { "start": 2639.2, "end": 2648.88, "text": "Because thankfully... I always had three or four people helping as I do have now not only helping but also taking the lead in many aspects." }, { "start": 2649.5, "end": 2656.0, "text": "So without these people jumping it would be not possible, definitely." }, { "start": 2657.24, "end": 2662.44, "text": "That's the beauty of a community is that you can share their work and go forward together." }, { "start": 2663.06, "end": 2671.76, "text": "I heard in Buenos Aires at the Metabolomics Conference that the Brazilian Community will become an affiliate to the Metabilomic Society very soon?" }, { "start": 2672.44, "end": 2681.98, "text": "Yeah hopefully yes before because for now we have the lamps which are from Latin America society." }, { "start": 2682.76, "end": 2688.46, "text": "But we do want first to get our own, let's say Brazilian community officially created." }, { "start": 2688.62, "end": 2701.24, "text": "so and that is what we have been working within the portal which to get a lot of professors together and discuss the possibility." }, { "start": 2701.56, "end": 2703.52, "text": "And it's now planned to happen." }, { "start": 2703.6, "end": 2712.2, "text": "in November, so... In November we will have a conference that is the seventh Conference on Brazilian Potomac Society." }, { "start": 2713.52, "end": 2719.82, "text": "Since last edition we are doing parallel the Metabolomic Summit, the Brazilian Metabolomics Summit." }, { "start": 2720.02, "end": 2721.46, "text": "So this would be second edition." }, { "start": 2721.52, "end": 2731.2, "text": "now in November We'll have session in which we will officially create the Brasilia Metabolomics Society, because we need to be official." }, { "start": 2731.26, "end": 2733.28, "text": "We need people to sign and to be there." }, { "start": 2733.42, "end": 2737.3, "text": "so you're gonna use this event to officially create a society." }, { "start": 2737.46, "end": 2741.58, "text": "then later on when I think we are mature enough." }, { "start": 2741.68, "end": 2746.64, "text": "of course becoming part of the officially part of The Metabolomic Society is the goal Yeah." }, { "start": 2746.74, "end": 2747.02, "text": "It's" }, { "start": 2747.08, "end": 2752.92, "text": "really exciting, so this conference is the one where people have to show up then be part of movement right?" }, { "start": 2753.32, "end": 2753.58, "text": "Yes" }, { "start": 2753.66, "end": 2754.16, "text": "exactly!" }, { "start": 2755.12, "end": 2759.32, "text": "We are trying to adjust and see if we can join also online." }, { "start": 2759.5, "end": 2765.78, "text": "So they would also consider as a funding member Of the community." }, { "start": 2766.08, "end": 2770.52, "text": "but of course If you could there in person I think it will be historical time." }, { "start": 2771.94, "end": 2775.58, "text": "Is there anything else you want to tell us about the Brazilian Metabolomics community?" }, { "start": 2777.9, "end": 2791.06, "text": "I think, i'm just proud when I think of it because... ...I see quality in what people are doing even if we're such limiting factors around." }, { "start": 2791.9, "end": 2803.98, "text": "I think it's getting in a very nice place and i also have to highlight the effort of The International Metabolomics Society To do that, include less represented researchers around the globe." }, { "start": 2804.94, "end": 2810.52, "text": "A clear example was the conference we had now In Argentina which is super-nice event." }, { "start": 2811.54, "end": 2817.64, "text": "It really came into my eyes the fact That almost half of the participants there were attending." }, { "start": 2819.08, "end": 2827.08, "text": "I think this really tells you a lot that these people cannot attend unless it's original, unless there." }, { "start": 2828.06, "end": 2839.22, "text": "So i'm really glad to see that this is taking off now and also from the metabolomics society part so...I am just happy and proud about it!" }, { "start": 2840.36, "end": 2844.78, "text": "Is there something You can see like?" }, { "start": 2844.84, "end": 2852.74, "text": "this is something we could do as a community now that would help scientists in Brazil or other parts of the world." }, { "start": 2853.06, "end": 2855.34, "text": "That's our working and similar conditions," }, { "start": 2856.28, "end": 2856.72, "text": "I think." }, { "start": 2858.74, "end": 2869.3, "text": "remember off those scientist and trying to help them in the sense of considering more collaborations scientific collaboration because it's hard." }, { "start": 2869.9, "end": 2873.74, "text": "funding just flows from Europe or US to the other countries." }, { "start": 2874.46, "end": 2888.42, "text": "That's much more difficult, but if you have project money that can maybe get some interesting samples from Latin America and Africa or other low-media income counties then we could have partners there." }, { "start": 2888.64, "end": 2895.16, "text": "I think this is something people should consider a bit more even as i said nowadays A lot of." }, { "start": 2897.78, "end": 2907.4, "text": "So I think that would be maybe one point, because as i said the support from the Metabolonic Society is it's just getting better." }, { "start": 2908.08, "end": 2923.66, "text": "Now, for example they are doing this online symposium organized by the EMN for the early members network which I think is also a very nice initiative because again people who cannot participate or can't travel and feel part of their community can present that work." }, { "start": 2924.06, "end": 2928.18, "text": "so i think these kind of initiatives are what makes it inclusive in the end." }, { "start": 2929.42, "end": 2939.78, "text": "we've discussed a few communities you're part of from metabolomics for exposomics I mean, we work in communities because we want to achieve certain goals together." }, { "start": 2939.94, "end": 2942.04, "text": "We want to progress science at the very least." }, { "start": 2942.1, "end": 2947.54, "text": "but so from your perspective with the communities you work with what would success look like?" }, { "start": 2947.6, "end": 2948.78, "text": "In the next five or ten years?" }, { "start": 2948.84, "end": 2951.0, "text": "What is it that comes to mind when i ask this question?" }, { "start": 2952.34, "end": 2956.94, "text": "I think The answer will be going global idea right It's really too." }, { "start": 2957.34, "end": 2965.58, "text": "include researchers From other let say settings low and middle income countries, I already mentioned that." }, { "start": 2966.24, "end": 2974.7, "text": "Because we were talking before about does there is a significant difference in sex between males and females?" }, { "start": 2975.4, "end": 2977.86, "text": "Is it the same with different genetic backgrounds." }, { "start": 2978.3, "end": 2994.0, "text": "so you need more representation not only on cohorts or studies themselves but also leading projects having researchers from such countries, leading the projects and participating more of the communities." }, { "start": 2994.5, "end": 2999.04, "text": "And I think again we are a good track but it can always get better right?" }, { "start": 2999.9, "end": 3000.92, "text": "Yes yes of course!" }, { "start": 3001.32, "end": 3005.76, "text": "And interestingly i think this applies to both metabolomics and exposomics communities." }, { "start": 3005.84, "end": 3013.52, "text": "It's really so closely intertwined like with this idea of exposure and effects that you can really apply the same logic." }, { "start": 3014.76, "end": 3019.58, "text": "Yeah, and maybe this is another direction that the two communities should how to say it?" }, { "start": 3019.66, "end": 3027.7, "text": "Should interconnect better right because of course they see a lot Of people that I know in both communities But I see some initiatives." }, { "start": 3028.14, "end": 3031.08, "text": "That could go sort of be closer together." }, { "start": 3031.82, "end": 3045.92, "text": "So i think also reaching from one community to the other, it's also important not to duplicate work and get even more efficient in terms of developing research into science." }, { "start": 3047.06, "end": 3049.22, "text": "So I think we're ready for our very last question." }, { "start": 3050.64, "end": 3055.34, "text": "given your specialties i would expand what is your favorite analyte and why?" }, { "start": 3055.54, "end": 3058.66, "text": "So it can be a metabolite or an exposure chemical." }, { "start": 3059.28, "end": 3060.64, "text": "What did you choose for that" }, { "start": 3060.84, "end": 3061.08, "text": "question?" }, { "start": 3061.12, "end": 3065.86, "text": "Well, actually the one I chose was both a metabolites in an exposure analyte." }, { "start": 3065.92, "end": 3068.32, "text": "so it covers both." }, { "start": 3068.4, "end": 3077.94, "text": "because yeah...I was thinking about this question And i know from many people they work on certain metabolic pathways their whole life." }, { "start": 3078.1, "end": 3079.72, "text": "They really have one metabolite." }, { "start": 3080.98, "end": 3088.98, "text": "But in my case, I think my work was always so diverse that uh i typically have a favorite metabolite every three to six months." }, { "start": 3090.32, "end": 3095.12, "text": "And and recently one that I'm allotting into is Kotinin." }, { "start": 3095.66, "end": 3103.52, "text": "So even if I'm not a smoker... So Kotinin it's a marker for smoking habit!" }, { "start": 3104.24, "end": 3105.8, "text": "And I really like it." }, { "start": 3105.9, "end": 3110.22, "text": "because well first When we try to explain our work, for example." }, { "start": 3110.3, "end": 3112.84, "text": "For people that are not from the field right?" }, { "start": 3113.66, "end": 3116.6, "text": "It's... We stumble many times!" }, { "start": 3116.68, "end": 3135.32, "text": "Right it is difficult many time making into simple words and with continuing what you see in studies its so clear difference when your have a smoker or no smoker like levels completely different, so it's a very clear and specific marker that we can track." }, { "start": 3135.9, "end": 3143.54, "text": "And also when explaining to people who are not from the field like you know if your smoke has these or do they have these?" }, { "start": 3143.86, "end": 3147.28, "text": "If you're a passive smoker then there is something in between!" }, { "start": 3147.72, "end": 3151.14, "text": "So its'a nice example of metabolite." }, { "start": 3151.98, "end": 3157.0, "text": "And also because one thing that I did not mention, i'm a lot involved into training." }, { "start": 3157.14, "end": 3166.7, "text": "So we do have a training course here in Ulster with Irene that we actually invite these students to donate their own urine and analyze." }, { "start": 3166.74, "end": 3167.46, "text": "they're on your end." }, { "start": 3167.56, "end": 3169.4, "text": "So, we go the lab with prepared a sample." }, { "start": 3169.78, "end": 3180.56, "text": "We do non-targeted analysis data processing everything And then in the end we collect some metadata To try find some statistical case control correlations." }, { "start": 3181.36, "end": 3185.66, "text": "One of things we look into is smokers versus known smokers." }, { "start": 3186.2, "end": 3190.98, "text": "besides I don't know male versus female or coffee, versus non-coffee." }, { "start": 3191.6, "end": 3193.58, "text": "Typically the smoker vs known smoker." }, { "start": 3193.68, "end": 3202.48, "text": "even if we have a very small data set typically up to thirty samples you can always see Cotinin as differential metabolite because it's so clear." }, { "start": 3204.08, "end": 3205.18, "text": "I really like Cotinine" }, { "start": 3207.86, "end": 3209.78, "text": "and you said its an endogenous metabolite too?" }, { "start": 3210.48, "end": 3211.08, "text": "Yes!" }, { "start": 3211.24, "end": 3212.9, "text": "It is a metabolite of nicotine." }, { "start": 3212.98, "end": 3221.92, "text": "So nicotine has much lower half life So you can still detect it, but its more acute right after your smoke." }, { "start": 3222.6, "end": 3225.92, "text": "And then it's metabolized to Cotinine which has a much longer half-life." }, { "start": 3226.02, "end": 3228.88, "text": "so... It is typically the marker for smoking." }, { "start": 3229.22, "end": 3231.18, "text": "Cotinin and HydroxyCotinin." }, { "start": 3232.02, "end": 3232.22, "text": "yes!" }, { "start": 3232.52, "end": 3233.68, "text": "It eats a metabolite" }, { "start": 3233.98, "end": 3235.48, "text": "Wonderful thankyou very much." }, { "start": 3237.68, "end": 3246.18, "text": "Thankyou Alice where we explored one of the many communities that leverage Metabolomics for The Greater Good." }, { "start": 3247.4, "end": 3257.22, "text": "To make sure you don't miss out on our next episode, follow your podcast or go to www.TheMetabolomist.com and register at our newsletter!" }, { "start": 3258.16, "end": 3271.18, "text": "Until then I wish you get to use Metabolomix with the same passion as my guest today And do not hesitate reach out to me on LinkedIn." } ]