[
  {
    "start": 6.38,
    "end": 11.24,
    "text": "Maritime matters, global perspectives through a German lens for the maritime industry."
  },
  {
    "start": 12.24,
    "end": 15.96,
    "text": "We bring the German perspective to the world and global insights into Germany."
  },
  {
    "start": 17.259,
    "end": 22.78,
    "text": "Maritime Matters is produced by The German Maritime Centre – the think tank of the German maritime sector."
  },
  {
    "start": 25.52,
    "end": 26.96,
    "text": "Welcome to our podcast!"
  },
  {
    "start": 27.28,
    "end": 28.6,
    "text": "My name is Matthias Katon."
  },
  {
    "start": 29.26,
    "end": 32.82,
    "text": "I'm the Managing Director at The German maritime centre And your host."
  },
  {
    "start": 35.98,
    "end": 42.9,
    "text": "Today we will talk about offshore infrastructure and what that means for the maritime energy transition."
  },
  {
    "start": 43.72,
    "end": 51.88,
    "text": "And my guest is Walter Kühnlein, he's an engineering strategist who works on the earliest decisions in complex energy and offshore projects."
  },
  {
    "start": 52.2,
    "end": 57.16,
    "text": "He has a principle of energy vision which is independent engineering firm."
  },
  {
    "start": 57.98,
    "end": 66.0,
    "text": "He is also an advisor to TerraBlue, a consultancy that specializes in complex resilient energy systems marine technology and ICE Technology."
  },
  {
    "start": 66.94,
    "end": 78.2,
    "text": "And from two thousand eight to twenty-three he chaired the German Association for Marine Technology where he's still co-chair today as a board member at University Lecturer."
  },
  {
    "start": 78.46,
    "end": 86.06,
    "text": "combined strategic vision with technical depth always on focus with lean and independent solutions that bridge theory."
  },
  {
    "start": 87.92,
    "end": 99.28,
    "text": "Walter, welcome to Maritime Matters!"
  },
  {
    "start": 99.36,
    "end": 111.84,
    "text": "You describe your work in a way I found unusual but also quite intriguing because you say you work at the point where technical assumptions quietly turn into decisions which cannot be undone."
  },
  {
    "start": 112.78,
    "end": 114.26,
    "text": "That is very particular place."
  },
  {
    "start": 116.28,
    "end": 125.92,
    "text": "It matters for offshore energy and other areas as well, because offshore is now being built at a scale that leaves very little room to make mistakes."
  },
  {
    "start": 126.88,
    "end": 135.4,
    "text": "Germany alone has set itself ambitious targets – thirty gigawatts of offshore wind by twenty-thirty and seventy gigawatt by twenty forty five."
  },
  {
    "start": 135.56,
    "end": 143.94,
    "text": "To reach the second figure roughly three thousand megawatts would have come online every single year after twenty thirty-five."
  },
  {
    "start": 144.42,
    "end": 152.02,
    "text": "quite big numbers, but before we get into the details of what that means tell us a little bit about those assumptions."
  },
  {
    "start": 152.24,
    "end": 153.64,
    "text": "Where do you come in as an expert?"
  },
  {
    "start": 154.58,
    "end": 159.64,
    "text": "Actually I've been working now since in offshore engineering for almost forty years."
  },
  {
    "start": 160.76,
    "end": 163.92,
    "text": "I was installing platforms all over the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 164.12,
    "end": 176.0,
    "text": "It started with oil and gas, in Caspian Sea, China Sea, North Sea... ...and then i turned from oil and dust slowly to renewable energy."
  },
  {
    "start": 176.32,
    "end": 183.24,
    "text": "And i installed at least one big platform very far away actually on the coast."
  },
  {
    "start": 184.58,
    "end": 189.82,
    "text": "When I started, I was really one of the very first German guys working in Offshore."
  },
  {
    "start": 189.92,
    "end": 200.62,
    "text": "What I realized when... ...I was looking for an offshore doctor and at that time because.. ..I always had to go through the Netherlands to the offshore doctor And then there were no offshore doctors available at all."
  },
  {
    "start": 200.78,
    "end": 208.24,
    "text": "So i was calling the Erzdekemer Hamburg The Doctor's Chamber In Hamburg asking if they have something around Germany."
  },
  {
    "start": 208.82,
    "end": 218.44,
    "text": "They said No not what we are aware about But We Have One Guy Who Is He is really a crazy guy, and maybe you contact him."
  },
  {
    "start": 218.64,
    "end": 220.78,
    "text": "Maybe he's then able to help"
  },
  {
    "start": 220.9,
    "end": 220.98,
    "text": "you.\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 221.12,
    "end": 222.88,
    "text": "And I contacted him... ...and said,\"No!"
  },
  {
    "start": 223.06,
    "end": 223.7,
    "text": "I cannot do that"
  },
  {
    "start": 223.78,
    "end": 223.96,
    "text": "yet!\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 224.12,
    "end": 226.82,
    "text": "But give me few weeks and i will come back to you...\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 227.62,
    "end": 231.24,
    "text": "Then they called me in three months."
  },
  {
    "start": 231.68,
    "end": 234.46,
    "text": "I am an offshore doctor and can now help them out."
  },
  {
    "start": 234.72,
    "end": 240.64,
    "text": "He was a doctor at this middle age when his entire career was done."
  },
  {
    "start": 240.72,
    "end": 249.76,
    "text": "When we approached him finally perspective and ten years later he was the president of The World Wide Offshore Doctors."
  },
  {
    "start": 250.02,
    "end": 253.96,
    "text": "And this is really a challenge for him, that's something I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 254.56,
    "end": 258.58,
    "text": "when i started there wasn't anything around you just said in question."
  },
  {
    "start": 259.24,
    "end": 274.22,
    "text": "There isn´t too much room to make mistakes but still there are lots of mistakes and lessons learned in oil and gas, it was the same."
  },
  {
    "start": 274.6,
    "end": 277.7,
    "text": "There is a so-called no blaming philosophy."
  },
  {
    "start": 278.0,
    "end": 292.36,
    "text": "So that means if you make an error And If You Make A Mistake Everybody Is Telling You In Advance And Very Early Mention It Because It Will Never Be So Cheap To Repair Your Mistake Now Then Later On And... And It Will Come Out."
  },
  {
    "start": 292.42,
    "end": 307.14,
    "text": "Actually That Might Take A Bit Longer Or It might be A bit More Expensive But I Think That's Really Where Offshore Wind Industry At Least During The Last Ten-fifteen years really started to learn from oil and gas at the beginning."
  },
  {
    "start": 307.26,
    "end": 322.14,
    "text": "I know they always said we don't have so much money like oil or gas, but if you just go a small boat on an offshore wind farm then you realize the boat is moving a few meters up and down."
  },
  {
    "start": 322.22,
    "end": 328.24,
    "text": "even if we have only two meter waves, it's not so easy anymore to do this transfer."
  },
  {
    "start": 328.56,
    "end": 335.66,
    "text": "Nowadays using all these Ampelmann systems or work-to-work system where this problem has been solved."
  },
  {
    "start": 335.72,
    "end": 341.96,
    "text": "in the beginning I was talking with people about an issue."
  },
  {
    "start": 343.32,
    "end": 344.1,
    "text": "jump over there."
  },
  {
    "start": 344.64,
    "end": 351.54,
    "text": "and then they said to me, if somebody has fear of jumping we will not blame him for that."
  },
  {
    "start": 351.66,
    "end": 363.48,
    "text": "And I told this guy but it means in ten years you only have people who never jumped because you cannot get rid off them Because he promised the others that they can refuse to jump."
  },
  {
    "start": 365.54,
    "end": 374.06,
    "text": "That's when wind started to turn around state of the art in oil and gas."
  },
  {
    "start": 374.84,
    "end": 383.48,
    "text": "So, install a culture where people feel free to confess having made a mistake rather than trying to sweep it under the carpet."
  },
  {
    "start": 384.14,
    "end": 390.26,
    "text": "with your breadth of experience both in terms of offshore industries different industries geographical range."
  },
  {
    "start": 391.02,
    "end": 395.82,
    "text": "what are mistakes that are being made in planning phases of such projects?"
  },
  {
    "start": 395.88,
    "end": 398.1,
    "text": "That you've seen time and again throughout."
  },
  {
    "start": 399.42,
    "end": 403.74,
    "text": "Actually, there's one thing which also comes that a lot of people are having."
  },
  {
    "start": 403.8,
    "end": 421.38,
    "text": "Of course the first experience in oil and gas And they always have in mind something like a lifetime extension Which makes really sense because it means you have a field There now we've got better technology You might get more oil out this field."
  },
  {
    "start": 421.62,
    "end": 427.34,
    "text": "Then try to keep your platform maybe three or five years longer alive."
  },
  {
    "start": 427.96,
    "end": 431.44,
    "text": "And if people think similar things in offshore wind, or at least they were singing."
  },
  {
    "start": 431.86,
    "end": 458.16,
    "text": "But that is totally different because there's no limited reservoirs and always winds so it means... Actually the opposite we learned was within twenty years size of the offshore wind turbines became much bigger and more efficient than it doesn't really make sense to continue with the old ones, even they are already paid and people say yeah but now it's really a return of money."
  },
  {
    "start": 459.94,
    "end": 473.1,
    "text": "Yes that would make sense actually if you do not have limited space But we don't need to use this space as efficiently as possible."
  },
  {
    "start": 475.26,
    "end": 477.62,
    "text": "I had few projects where i was able."
  },
  {
    "start": 478.14,
    "end": 479.14,
    "text": "One of them was even built."
  },
  {
    "start": 479.22,
    "end": 495.26,
    "text": "The other ones were then later on cancelled and I was able to convince them not use the normal layout time for thirty years because after twenty you might have to re-power it until that makes a much more efficient, cheaper and more economical."
  },
  {
    "start": 495.34,
    "end": 497.96,
    "text": "if we just build it so they can withstand twenty years."
  },
  {
    "start": 498.46,
    "end": 511.84,
    "text": "Yeah And i think thats something what is big difference in slowly coming into people's mind Continuing with our platform for a very, very long time because it's growing so fast."
  },
  {
    "start": 512.799,
    "end": 516.059,
    "text": "What I find interesting is that you said well we don't have enough space."
  },
  {
    "start": 516.12,
    "end": 519.78,
    "text": "We have to use the limited amount of space in the best way possible."
  },
  {
    "start": 520.159,
    "end": 528.92,
    "text": "and then there something that two people who are not So much into offshore might be surprising Because people assume Well That somewhere out There on the seas they must be plenty Of Space right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 529.02,
    "end": 537.7,
    "text": "It's Not like setting up Something Onshore where more People Understand Maybe Space Is Limited but Offshore should be fairly unlimited the space."
  },
  {
    "start": 537.74,
    "end": 538.52,
    "text": "But that's not the case?"
  },
  {
    "start": 539.14,
    "end": 541.84,
    "text": "No, it is actually not a case especially with Germany."
  },
  {
    "start": 541.92,
    "end": 550.38,
    "text": "we have this German sector which was also called like a duck or mouse and a lot of people are using that!"
  },
  {
    "start": 550.44,
    "end": 557.0,
    "text": "That means marine traffic is used, fishery is used... And many other things military use it."
  },
  {
    "start": 557.66,
    "end": 562.22,
    "text": "I think thats why really to make good plans."
  },
  {
    "start": 562.28,
    "end": 574.56,
    "text": "And I think the BSH is doing very well in order take out and claim areas for their right purposes, that's important even if it looks like we have unlimited one."
  },
  {
    "start": 574.88,
    "end": 584.12,
    "text": "but numbers you mentioned earlier they request a lot of area when say three gigawatt per year."
  },
  {
    "start": 585.86,
    "end": 588.14,
    "text": "at moment there are no auctions."
  },
  {
    "start": 588.6,
    "end": 593.96,
    "text": "There is no windpark really in the planning at the moment, which has not been started years ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 594.74,
    "end": 596.58,
    "text": "And I think...I have my doubts!"
  },
  {
    "start": 596.8,
    "end": 601.36,
    "text": "The skulls are a little bit ambitious but i'm not so sure if you can make it."
  },
  {
    "start": 601.4,
    "end": 611.7,
    "text": "that's for me like if your in front of the abtunnel towards Kiel And it's a nineteen forty-five and you call your friend in Kieland."
  },
  {
    "start": 612.0,
    "end": 617.78,
    "text": "You have the meeting with him at twenty hundred, and he called me to say there might be chance that I'm coming up late?"
  },
  {
    "start": 618.06,
    "end": 618.12,
    "text": "No!"
  },
  {
    "start": 618.28,
    "end": 619.08,
    "text": "There is no chances."
  },
  {
    "start": 619.12,
    "end": 623.54,
    "text": "That is absolutely sure... ...that we will come later because they don't know what makes them."
  },
  {
    "start": 625.5,
    "end": 633.78,
    "text": "Of course of course we must continue our ambitious goals but also need more realistic."
  },
  {
    "start": 634.82,
    "end": 641.16,
    "text": "Good, we should add that for people who are not in Hamburg frequently the tunnel under the elbow is famous or infamous one might say."
  },
  {
    "start": 641.74,
    "end": 643.78,
    "text": "For having frequent traffic jams."
  },
  {
    "start": 643.86,
    "end": 648.52,
    "text": "so if you need to get from one side of the other you better plan with enough time."
  },
  {
    "start": 649.12,
    "end": 661.78,
    "text": "what did u decided purposefully to set up your own small independent consulting engineering firm rather than joining another big ones and i think behind that it's this idea off being lean on Mary also fast."
  },
  {
    "start": 662.46,
    "end": 665.04,
    "text": "What is the advantage of being small in your field?"
  },
  {
    "start": 665.88,
    "end": 668.62,
    "text": "Actually, I think a big advantage is that you are flexible."
  },
  {
    "start": 668.9,
    "end": 678.14,
    "text": "You can adjust very easy and all the big companies like Dinosaur they have major problems to adjust so it's an advantage for them."
  },
  {
    "start": 678.54,
    "end": 694.28,
    "text": "The next thing really... ...I've got the luxury that i could choose my projects but don't need to work on projects where we already see that this will not really become a big success because people are assuming wrong things and so on."
  },
  {
    "start": 694.5,
    "end": 702.42,
    "text": "That's actually what you also mentioned in the introduction, which we assume is not one hundred percent made clear!"
  },
  {
    "start": 702.5,
    "end": 703.38,
    "text": "This was an assumption."
  },
  {
    "start": 703.84,
    "end": 709.66,
    "text": "If it has been written down three times four time five times then there is suddenly a fact."
  },
  {
    "start": 710.22,
    "end": 712.88,
    "text": "And if its a fact nobody would challenge anymore."
  },
  {
    "start": 713.12,
    "end": 719.08,
    "text": "I think There are many things to be challenged and which we still need to challenge."
  },
  {
    "start": 719.64,
    "end": 724.14,
    "text": "We forgot a bit in order to challenge that, prove it."
  },
  {
    "start": 724.64,
    "end": 729.1,
    "text": "mainly projects are also running for very long time so ten years is normally nothing."
  },
  {
    "start": 729.16,
    "end": 729.78,
    "text": "its much longer."
  },
  {
    "start": 730.72,
    "end": 740.74,
    "text": "I learned the hard way with my first big project in Caspian Sea where i had a budget of about ten billion and was overrunning by fifty billion."
  },
  {
    "start": 741.22,
    "end": 747.32,
    "text": "but this is biggest oil & gas found last forties still a very, very economical project."
  },
  {
    "start": 747.68,
    "end": 753.86,
    "text": "But what I learned there is every time you make the decision write down What are the reasons?"
  },
  {
    "start": 754.06,
    "end": 755.34,
    "text": "What are these circumstances?"
  },
  {
    "start": 755.76,
    "end": 758.16,
    "text": "why You made this decision in such way?"
  },
  {
    "start": 758.26,
    "end": 764.12,
    "text": "because i have seen that sitting here and making decisions And do really want to go left side."
  },
  {
    "start": 764.2,
    "end": 769.5,
    "text": "but There two reason which will really hinder you In order of going to your right side."
  },
  {
    "start": 769.84,
    "end": 778.26,
    "text": "so then you go Two steps further And then suddenly somebody decides that these two reasons, which didn't allow you to go the left side are cancelled."
  },
  {
    "start": 778.3,
    "end": 782.5,
    "text": "That they no longer exist actually and never ever."
  },
  {
    "start": 782.7,
    "end": 785.36,
    "text": "anybody will go back now take their other path."
  },
  {
    "start": 785.68,
    "end": 788.94,
    "text": "I think we really have to write things down."
  },
  {
    "start": 789.58,
    "end": 795.08,
    "text": "if there's a reason why your decision is changing You'll have to challenge this decision again."
  },
  {
    "start": 795.32,
    "end": 798.46,
    "text": "maybe come up with better solution or better decision."
  },
  {
    "start": 799.52,
    "end": 806.26,
    "text": "Do not only run your own Engineering company, but you also take an active role in shaping the industry."
  },
  {
    "start": 806.68,
    "end": 808.36,
    "text": "I mentioned that In The Introduction."
  },
  {
    "start": 808.46,
    "end": 814.02,
    "text": "You were the chair of the German Association for Marine Technology For some fifteen years."
  },
  {
    "start": 814.08,
    "end": 816.96,
    "text": "your still involved there as a board member."
  },
  {
    "start": 817.38,
    "end": 819.32,
    "text": "Tell our listeners what does it association do?"
  },
  {
    "start": 819.66,
    "end": 822.04,
    "text": "What's its role in That ecosystem?"
  },
  {
    "start": 822.52,
    "end": 829.66,
    "text": "okay Actually originally it was founded because there is no voice for the offshore industry."
  },
  {
    "start": 829.94,
    "end": 837.38,
    "text": "There's a very big and strong voice with VSM, like in the shipping or shipbuilding industries."
  },
  {
    "start": 837.8,
    "end": 841.04,
    "text": "but that wasn't real voice of the off-shore industry."
  },
  {
    "start": 841.18,
    "end": 858.52,
    "text": "And when they started to race then people had realized... ...there are lots things in the off show industry totally different than in the shipping or shipbuilding industry, because it's not so much money you have to spend."
  },
  {
    "start": 858.62,
    "end": 870.1,
    "text": "It is more about how reliable something can be if you buy a pump and this pump guarantees that within next twenty years will work every year three days more!"
  },
  {
    "start": 870.52,
    "end": 874.26,
    "text": "So don't take it out for maintenance then your competitors' pump."
  },
  {
    "start": 875.0,
    "end": 885.22,
    "text": "It doesn't matter if this pump is fifty thousand euros more expensive or not, because you make so much money by producing than when you spend it."
  },
  {
    "start": 885.28,
    "end": 886.78,
    "text": "And I think that's a bit different."
  },
  {
    "start": 887.22,
    "end": 903.98,
    "text": "and then of course quite a few other things are which are quite different Because i always say You know When you build the ship ,you can Make it hundred times more safe Or hundred times less safe but the captain can make it thousand times more safe or a thousand times less safe."
  },
  {
    "start": 904.06,
    "end": 916.42,
    "text": "So I always say, I prefer to be on a decent ship with super-captain instead of a super ship with a decent captain because he might have made things worse and that's different in offshore."
  },
  {
    "start": 916.48,
    "end": 924.58,
    "text": "so that is why also Offshore was one of the first areas where you started with statistics about wave heights etc."
  },
  {
    "start": 925.22,
    "end": 930.82,
    "text": "because your sitting at certain position If the waves are coming, you have to stay there."
  },
  {
    "start": 931.02,
    "end": 939.8,
    "text": "The ice is also a big issue especially in the Baltic Sea and we've seen it last winter even at Hamburg in the river Elbe."
  },
  {
    "start": 939.9,
    "end": 941.44,
    "text": "We had quite some ice there."
  },
  {
    "start": 942.2,
    "end": 946.96,
    "text": "I'm teaching one course of Ice Engineering and i had many years where there was no ice at all."
  },
  {
    "start": 947.6,
    "end": 955.92,
    "text": "but this year there were lots of ice even if there's not every year ice, but only every ten years."
  },
  {
    "start": 956.8,
    "end": 958.58,
    "text": "And this is now a design case."
  },
  {
    "start": 959.0,
    "end": 961.9,
    "text": "you have to consider it and I think that very important."
  },
  {
    "start": 962.36,
    "end": 964.16,
    "text": "Speaking of ice, you're now based in Dubai."
  },
  {
    "start": 964.28,
    "end": 968.08,
    "text": "So I guess there is very little ice there except maybe in your refrigerator."
  },
  {
    "start": 968.16,
    "end": 977.94,
    "text": "but you have actually spent a large part of your career working on very cold and icy issues structures and ships that have to survive ice in very rough conditions."
  },
  {
    "start": 978.64,
    "end": 993.18,
    "text": "You have made a lot of experience here In fact...in your own biography..you say something like if you apply across disciplinary operations driven lens you can cut total projects costs by upto fifty percent Which is a striking claim."
  },
  {
    "start": 993.52,
    "end": 995.34,
    "text": "So maybe talk a little bit about that."
  },
  {
    "start": 995.52,
    "end": 999.0,
    "text": "Why do you believe that we could cut out half the cost?"
  },
  {
    "start": 999.66,
    "end": 1006.6,
    "text": "Yeah, because I think you have to ask questions where I am going to operate, what will be the scenario there?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1006.64,
    "end": 1007.82,
    "text": "Where i'm gonna operate."
  },
  {
    "start": 1008.18,
    "end": 1013.06,
    "text": "How long as I just said before how long do I want to operate this system?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1013.36,
    "end": 1015.36,
    "text": "Do I wanna operate it really for thirty years?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1015.46,
    "end": 1018.74,
    "text": "or maybe after twenty years I'll repower my systems."
  },
  {
    "start": 1019.12,
    "end": 1025.079,
    "text": "that gives you a lot of possibilities To make different decisions and thats actually very important."
  },
  {
    "start": 1025.54,
    "end": 1027.34,
    "text": "sometimes goes in opposite direction."
  },
  {
    "start": 1028.98,
    "end": 1042.44,
    "text": "worked on a project where I spent actually in the beginning much more money than the company expected, but later they really saved much more because they were prepared for some unforeseen situations."
  },
  {
    "start": 1042.5,
    "end": 1062.76,
    "text": "As an example at that moment we all know there's global warming so it means most of areas of the Baltic Sea their ice is getting thinner and especially when you design something now let's say five years and then it stays there for twenty years, so we talk about from now to twenty-five years."
  },
  {
    "start": 1063.56,
    "end": 1066.7,
    "text": "And then we would assume okay the ice is getting thinner?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1066.82,
    "end": 1076.48,
    "text": "So we can also then reduce our safety factors a little bit and make it a bit more slimmer...and that is true in most of cases."
  },
  {
    "start": 1076.92,
    "end": 1081.7,
    "text": "but some areas where suddenly you get thicker ice than before."
  },
  {
    "start": 1082.26,
    "end": 1086.28,
    "text": "And the reason is that this ice is not growing there in this area."
  },
  {
    "start": 1086.38,
    "end": 1096.56,
    "text": "It was growing much further into north and now as ice is thinner it becomes more movable, its moving around... ...and suddenly comes from the North where there's a lot colder."
  },
  {
    "start": 1097.0,
    "end": 1109.08,
    "text": "and then down to south you have some areas with really thick ice but most of them don't have it discuss and negotiate."
  },
  {
    "start": 1109.12,
    "end": 1118.54,
    "text": "And I always say when all the platforms are normally, then these ships you have a class with offshore structures normaly get an approval or certification?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1119.58,
    "end": 1140.5,
    "text": "The last thing where we really can discuss this like DNV format GL or AVP of your name it that is actually when you discussed approach your structure because that is really something which is not hundred percent specified where you really have some flexibility."
  },
  {
    "start": 1140.88,
    "end": 1143.08,
    "text": "Of course, You need to be sure this right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1143.14,
    "end": 1146.46,
    "text": "That you don't trick them and make eye sicknesses which are too low."
  },
  {
    "start": 1146.84,
    "end": 1154.14,
    "text": "but after the eye sickness has been mentioned then you can do a lot of things anymore Because they may follow rules and calculate according The rules"
  },
  {
    "start": 1154.66,
    "end": 1159.14,
    "text": "considering if we consider that Things Are becoming more volatile We Don't Really Know."
  },
  {
    "start": 1159.32,
    "end": 1160.1,
    "text": "Will There Be More Eyes?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1160.2,
    "end": 1161.04,
    "text": "will there be less eyes?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1161.7,
    "end": 1166.66,
    "text": "also I guess the size of the waves may vary, how high they are or how hard their hitting."
  },
  {
    "start": 1167.18,
    "end": 1184.56,
    "text": "So if i have to prepare let's say a fixed structure such as a platform that has to last a certain amount of time for so many different eventualities wouldn't that suggest that drives the costs up because i have prepared not just one and two scenarios but maybe three four five different scenarios?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1184.62,
    "end": 1188.56,
    "text": "And make sure my structure is able cope with them regardless."
  },
  {
    "start": 1190.44,
    "end": 1191.8,
    "text": "Yes, in general yes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1191.98,
    "end": 1203.06,
    "text": "But on the other hand when you have an offshore wind farm as an example so it means we have a lot of rows outside row then and inner row even further into row And normally idle."
  },
  {
    "start": 1203.44,
    "end": 1207.32,
    "text": "You put your Transformer unit In the middle of the offshore wind park."
  },
  {
    "start": 1207.82,
    "end": 1209.8,
    "text": "That mean's all their eyes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1209.88,
    "end": 1221.44,
    "text": "which is approaching your transformer units has been already broken by the outer piles of Chauvento vines, so you get less ice reaching there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1221.98,
    "end": 1222.62,
    "text": "Two directions."
  },
  {
    "start": 1222.76,
    "end": 1229.32,
    "text": "One is really coming from the offshore side, The other one comes on the shore side and from the shoreside to fetch lengths."
  },
  {
    "start": 1229.5,
    "end": 1238.36,
    "text": "it's very limited because there isn't too much distance where wind can introduce forces because ice is normally moving mainly by the wind force."
  },
  {
    "start": 1238.98,
    "end": 1243.08,
    "text": "so that means you make this side less strong."
  },
  {
    "start": 1243.8,
    "end": 1247.9,
    "text": "I think if you adjust all these things then you save money."
  },
  {
    "start": 1248.0,
    "end": 1253.18,
    "text": "And of course also look at what your neighbours are doing of chauvin parks around."
  },
  {
    "start": 1253.88,
    "end": 1256.46,
    "text": "they are all nailing their eyes somehow down."
  },
  {
    "start": 1256.62,
    "end": 1259.76,
    "text": "so it means then the ice is less movable all the time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1259.88,
    "end": 1262.98,
    "text": "if you're the first one, than really have to deal with everything."
  },
  {
    "start": 1263.06,
    "end": 1268.86,
    "text": "but there's only other ones that can take advantage for this already dare and I think especially with ice."
  },
  {
    "start": 1269.26,
    "end": 1273.86,
    "text": "You HAVE TO do that because ice maybe just want two sentences about ice."
  },
  {
    "start": 1274.36,
    "end": 1284.94,
    "text": "Ice is the ONLY thing where So called ice management, so it means by using ships pre-breaking the ice you can reduce their ice load."
  },
  {
    "start": 1285.96,
    "end": 1296.06,
    "text": "You cannot do that with waves if in the North Sea we have to deal with a thirty five meter design wave and not come up with a big iron and dump down at twenty five meters With ice."
  },
  {
    "start": 1297.78,
    "end": 1309.34,
    "text": "this is also an approach which was quite new for especially offshore Germany, that suddenly we as engineers have to rely on the performance of a captain."
  },
  {
    "start": 1309.76,
    "end": 1311.28,
    "text": "and how do you judge it actually?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1311.54,
    "end": 1318.06,
    "text": "And there are a lot of procedures now where We might need it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1318.54,
    "end": 1328.64,
    "text": "Of course, you have to have a contract with an icebreaker company because we cannot just say that the next winter is a mild one and when there's going to be heavy winters they will call him."
  },
  {
    "start": 1329.12,
    "end": 1331.94,
    "text": "but then all other offshore windparks also have a heavy winter."
  },
  {
    "start": 1332.48,
    "end": 1340.2,
    "text": "so in order for them to get their approval you must have permanent contracts with this company, but that helps a lot actually."
  },
  {
    "start": 1340.26,
    "end": 1350.24,
    "text": "And I think there is something what the people are not always aware about it you can really reduce their ice forces quite dramatically by using Ice management."
  },
  {
    "start": 1350.68,
    "end": 1359.58,
    "text": "But still It seems A Lot of factors here at play The wind the waves the temperature other structures in the vicinity the coastline Rather complex to model That."
  },
  {
    "start": 1359.66,
    "end": 1362.12,
    "text": "i mean i suppose You do that Using computer models."
  },
  {
    "start": 1362.58,
    "end": 1371.78,
    "text": "does Do the developments for example In the field Of AI help predict some of the interdependencies that exist between all those factors?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1372.74,
    "end": 1386.86,
    "text": "AI is one of the most important factors at a moment which we are using when you design new platforms, when you're designing new locations because AI really good in order to use data."
  },
  {
    "start": 1387.96,
    "end": 1400.96,
    "text": "We have lots of data from the Baltic Sea and simulate what will happen if there is a neighbor wind park, and I think that's very important."
  },
  {
    "start": 1401.9,
    "end": 1420.34,
    "text": "We take advantage of using AI but we also need to train my students so they can really understand what AI gives you for results because sometimes AI always has an answer!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1423.52,
    "end": 1424.46,
    "text": "areas of the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1425.22,
    "end": 1427.96,
    "text": "Whenever you ask somebody, he will give an answer how to go."
  },
  {
    "start": 1428.54,
    "end": 1432.76,
    "text": "even if it has no clue and AI is a little bit like that then I think thats very important."
  },
  {
    "start": 1433.36,
    "end": 1441.74,
    "text": "students learn how to judge results especially where they rely on AI for this result."
  },
  {
    "start": 1441.84,
    "end": 1445.0,
    "text": "but when we get good feeling its not possible."
  },
  {
    "start": 1447.92,
    "end": 1455.22,
    "text": "I train my students because that's the most important thing or knowledge they will have for their next twenty years."
  },
  {
    "start": 1466.66,
    "end": 1473.2,
    "text": "Every episode we ask our guests to bring one number, which pertains to this topic that we are discussing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1473.76,
    "end": 1475.84,
    "text": "Walter what is your nautical number?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1476.52,
    "end": 1479.06,
    "text": "Actually mine is forty two."
  },
  {
    "start": 1479.76,
    "end": 1497.76,
    "text": "That not only because of Douglas Adams but it's also that most of the offshore windparks are in this forty-two nautical mile area and all the water depths we were using in the past, they're also normally in this area because there was something for a long time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1498.26,
    "end": 1502.12,
    "text": "Forty two meter water depth is somehow the limit."
  },
  {
    "start": 1502.42,
    "end": 1505.16,
    "text": "after that you could not go with a monopile anymore."
  },
  {
    "start": 1505.22,
    "end": 1509.74,
    "text": "You had to check construction or tripod or other constructions."
  },
  {
    "start": 1510.42,
    "end": 1526.7,
    "text": "now new developments, developing guided towers where you can maybe go and do something like up to a hundred meters because it's much more economical if you sit on the ground than having a floating offshore wind farm."
  },
  {
    "start": 1527.02,
    "end": 1531.26,
    "text": "because also exploding offshore wind, and I think it will come if you go further away."
  },
  {
    "start": 1531.72,
    "end": 1537.92,
    "text": "But it has a lot of challenges as the fatigue issue is not only on the mooring but also in the cable."
  },
  {
    "start": 1538.4,
    "end": 1543.42,
    "text": "If all these fatigue issues are on cables or power lines getting problems"
  },
  {
    "start": 1545.3,
    "end": 1545.56,
    "text": "etc.,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1546.18,
    "end": 1546.76,
    "text": "that's something."
  },
  {
    "start": 1547.12,
    "end": 1548.08,
    "text": "what now?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1548.12,
    "end": 1554.88,
    "text": "at this moment there're many companies spending their knowledge and then spending research work to going into deeper water depths."
  },
  {
    "start": 1554.98,
    "end": 1557.76,
    "text": "And I'm very lucky at the moment, i have one of my master students."
  },
  {
    "start": 1558.06,
    "end": 1574.44,
    "text": "he's writing a research his master thesis about this new developments of towers which are going through the range of hundred meters .And so ,I know when you're in a discussion that sometimes people said okay We had six-meter diameter, then we made eight meter diameters and now there are ten or twelve."
  },
  {
    "start": 1574.48,
    "end": 1575.78,
    "text": "So why not just make it bigger?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1576.32,
    "end": 1585.98,
    "text": "But the problem is if you make it bigger and bigger... ...the eigenfrequency of this structure going lower and lower And suddenly in that area where they have a lot of energy."
  },
  {
    "start": 1586.4,
    "end": 1587.56,
    "text": "That's what your waves are!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1588.74,
    "end": 1597.2,
    "text": "Of course all of us know when you have an eigenfrequency over here with lots of energy The worst thing to do because really that will damage our system."
  },
  {
    "start": 1597.4,
    "end": 1598.2,
    "text": "What should be done?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1599.82,
    "end": 1613.18,
    "text": "more flexible structures from the very rigid monopiles to go through them guided monopile that you go from one side of the energy spectra, your sea state and then you are really safe again."
  },
  {
    "start": 1613.24,
    "end": 1620.7,
    "text": "And I think thats something what a lot people have learned because I was with authorities and they told me, okay then we make it fifteen meter diameter."
  },
  {
    "start": 1620.76,
    "end": 1621.6,
    "text": "So what is the problem?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1621.68,
    "end": 1621.76,
    "text": "Yeah!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1622.26,
    "end": 1627.1,
    "text": "It's just that their eigenfrequency becomes a big issue... And"
  },
  {
    "start": 1627.28,
    "end": 1628.78,
    "text": "also more costly i assume."
  },
  {
    "start": 1628.9,
    "end": 1632.38,
    "text": "so the more material you need the more expensive it become."
  },
  {
    "start": 1632.68,
    "end": 1634.1,
    "text": "how does this do cost wise ?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1634.16,
    "end": 1639.22,
    "text": "I mean i assume deeper is always going to be more expensive than operating in shallow waters."
  },
  {
    "start": 1639.28,
    "end": 1643.6,
    "text": "but Is it like linear ,the amount of costs increases or is it exponential?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1645.28,
    "end": 1648.6,
    "text": "Determine that is not just the engineering limitations."
  },
  {
    "start": 1648.72,
    "end": 1651.26,
    "text": "I assume it's also economic limitations, of course"
  },
  {
    "start": 1651.4,
    "end": 1654.52,
    "text": "absolutely is also economic because It's not really linear."
  },
  {
    "start": 1654.74,
    "end": 1657.62,
    "text": "i'ts Not quadratic but its somewhere in between us."
  },
  {
    "start": 1657.82,
    "end": 1671.3,
    "text": "But especially if you have to change and I like in there In a first wind fox like in the Baltic sea where we are corner as an example the person when he had A few in a bit deeper water, so we had the jackets there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1671.64,
    "end": 1690.88,
    "text": "And then of course it's immediately big change when you go from one structure to another one though It is very expensive on the other hand and if you are at North Sea going into deeper water Then You get more stronger wind More consistent winds So something which is paying back again There actually also important."
  },
  {
    "start": 1691.16,
    "end": 1695.72,
    "text": "That why people still thinking to go far offshore where they have all that wind?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1696.18,
    "end": 1704.88,
    "text": "because We need somehow to be able generate renewable energy, which is not only available when the wind is blowing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1704.96,
    "end": 1710.7,
    "text": "It also should be available at least on a coast with much less wind and I think that's very important."
  },
  {
    "start": 1710.76,
    "end": 1714.54,
    "text": "otherwise we still have to build our gas power stations"
  },
  {
    "start": 1715.52,
    "end": 1717.7,
    "text": "And it's also a matter of getting the power on show."
  },
  {
    "start": 1717.8,
    "end": 1722.68,
    "text": "Of course, so far out you are... ...the more complicated and expensive that part becomes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1722.72,
    "end": 1723.6,
    "text": "Absolutely!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1723.66,
    "end": 1727.14,
    "text": "You have to make decisions."
  },
  {
    "start": 1727.68,
    "end": 1728.42,
    "text": "do we really want?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1730.22,
    "end": 1736.98,
    "text": "electrical energy to the shore or do we generate hydrogen, or mason and ammonia?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1737.4,
    "end": 1743.26,
    "text": "But of course the people have always to keep in mind when you go from electrical power to hydrogen."
  },
  {
    "start": 1743.64,
    "end": 1746.2,
    "text": "You lose something like two-thirds of your energy."
  },
  {
    "start": 1746.42,
    "end": 1751.28,
    "text": "that means I always a picture for my students said you need four thousand electric cars!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1751.66,
    "end": 1754.12,
    "text": "You need about three offshore wind turbines...the big ones."
  },
  {
    "start": 1755.06,
    "end": 1760.12,
    "text": "To power them, if there are EVs or hydrogen cars you need to have nine."
  },
  {
    "start": 1760.4,
    "end": 1764.86,
    "text": "If they're using synthetic fuels then go upto nineteen."
  },
  {
    "start": 1766.1,
    "end": 1767.94,
    "text": "We don't have enough to cover the three."
  },
  {
    "start": 1768.44,
    "end": 1770.88,
    "text": "so why we are dreaming sometimes from the nineteen?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1771.52,
    "end": 1784.96,
    "text": "On the other hand it is of course when you have hydrogen that can be stored and no need anymore because electricity... do not have battery storage, then you have to produce it when needed."
  },
  {
    "start": 1785.48,
    "end": 1805.66,
    "text": "Hydrogen can be produced per year what we need for a year but of course with this quite high limitation and I think that's also something where at the moment i have quite a few clients who have to sink their entire energy chain not just, and we have too many people concentrating on one point of the energy chain."
  },
  {
    "start": 1806.14,
    "end": 1810.06,
    "text": "And now I say with a mathematical equation with five unknowns."
  },
  {
    "start": 1810.4,
    "end": 1818.88,
    "text": "you cannot optimize this by optimizing first unknown then second one than third because there is only one common maclima which has to be found!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1819.22,
    "end": 1823.68,
    "text": "That's very important that you really know what my entire supply chain is."
  },
  {
    "start": 1824.26,
    "end": 1825.38,
    "text": "How do I need the energy?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1825.86,
    "end": 1830.06,
    "text": "At the moment they are working with some data center where you can say, OK."
  },
  {
    "start": 1830.6,
    "end": 1834.32,
    "text": "The people who use AI want to use that twenty-four seven."
  },
  {
    "start": 1835.0,
    "end": 1838.9,
    "text": "But do you really need to train AI, twenty four seven?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1839.08,
    "end": 1839.16,
    "text": "No."
  },
  {
    "start": 1839.34,
    "end": 1847.82,
    "text": "You can train AI when there is a lot of energy available and trained it less if there's less energy available And I think that gives you the flexibility."
  },
  {
    "start": 1848.44,
    "end": 1853.22,
    "text": "or come up with different systems like When we talk about photovoltaic as an example."
  },
  {
    "start": 1853.26,
    "end": 1859.86,
    "text": "everybody knows That photovolatary is more efficient than solar semi but then you have to start."
  },
  {
    "start": 1860.02,
    "end": 1868.48,
    "text": "Then suddenly if you have more dissolved, which has a tower in the center where then we have a lot of mirrors and then you concentrate light."
  },
  {
    "start": 1869.04,
    "end": 1875.16,
    "text": "You heat it up to eight hundred degrees... ...then you can generate energy from that twenty-four seven."
  },
  {
    "start": 1875.68,
    "end": 1879.24,
    "text": "And not any longer only during daylight."
  },
  {
    "start": 1879.96,
    "end": 1882.66,
    "text": "That entire system is considered by us!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1882.7,
    "end": 1884.34,
    "text": "So what does this mean?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1884.78,
    "end": 1890.72,
    "text": "Not when you say this is most efficient one that might be not the best one for their entire program."
  },
  {
    "start": 1890.76,
    "end": 1890.82,
    "text": "Yeah,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1891.26,
    "end": 1893.4,
    "text": "it's going to a mix of different solutions."
  },
  {
    "start": 1894.18,
    "end": 1904.96,
    "text": "Let us talk about another area because building an offshore wind park is only part the conundrum that you need to solve because once it's built, you need operate."
  },
  {
    "start": 1905.44,
    "end": 1910.42,
    "text": "You need to service it and repair or maintain for twenty five thirty years."
  },
  {
    "start": 1911.22,
    "end": 1912.64,
    "text": "those things also get harder."
  },
  {
    "start": 1912.92,
    "end": 1913.28,
    "text": "of course."
  },
  {
    "start": 1913.36,
    "end": 1921.96,
    "text": "they far out you are we talked about further from coast deeper water creates new array challenges."
  },
  {
    "start": 1923.06,
    "end": 1924.6,
    "text": "talk about operability a lot."
  },
  {
    "start": 1925.02,
    "end": 1931.88,
    "text": "let us define our listeners in lay terms, what that means to you and What is the difference between also operability?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1932.04,
    "end": 1932.8,
    "text": "And availability."
  },
  {
    "start": 1932.9,
    "end": 1935.96,
    "text": "Is that the same as a different word or how has it defined?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1936.62,
    "end": 1953.74,
    "text": "actually quite different actually and I was involved in long time ago when a project where They were developing a flexible gangway where you could use on small swaths, which was used in order to bring the mechanics out into turbines."
  },
  {
    "start": 1954.38,
    "end": 1965.44,
    "text": "Then we made statistics and realized that especially during winter time at about sixty percent of the time when the swath was there off-shore wind turbine."
  },
  {
    "start": 1965.7,
    "end": 1973.88,
    "text": "then people already had so many accelerations Tables, if you experience so many accelerations... ...you have to rest for the next twelve hours."
  },
  {
    "start": 1974.48,
    "end": 1977.16,
    "text": "So that means the gang members would've even worked!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1977.24,
    "end": 1986.66,
    "text": "They could've even walked over but they were not allowed to walk over anymore because.... ....they had so many acceleration experiences and they had go home again."
  },
  {
    "start": 1987.46,
    "end": 1988.66,
    "text": "It is about ability."
  },
  {
    "start": 1989.9,
    "end": 1993.4,
    "text": "You are available, but you can't do anything because you're not there anymore."
  },
  {
    "start": 1993.44,
    "end": 2006.42,
    "text": "And that's why nowadays especially the offshore windparks which are further out they have this much bigger vessels where people are staying for several weeks and then it is a totally different small game with little bit like to real offshore."
  },
  {
    "start": 2006.46,
    "end": 2016.84,
    "text": "so go therefore two weeks work for two weeks Go home for three weeks and I think these things really need to be considered."
  },
  {
    "start": 2016.9,
    "end": 2019.38,
    "text": "very We're using assumptions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2019.92,
    "end": 2022.98,
    "text": "in the early days, which doesn't make any real sense."
  },
  {
    "start": 2023.64,
    "end": 2039.02,
    "text": "One of my very first studies for offshore wind was to do an analysis with a checkup rig and then they said that availability when it is drilling into North Sea in similar areas is about ninety-five percent."
  },
  {
    "start": 2039.2,
    "end": 2046.5,
    "text": "so this means whenever you want to move from one location to another one maybe wait five per cent time on the weather."
  },
  {
    "start": 2046.86,
    "end": 2052.42,
    "text": "And then they said, Walter we are going to use the same factor."
  },
  {
    "start": 2052.5,
    "end": 2056.36,
    "text": "Maybe as new let's reduce it to ninety percent."
  },
  {
    "start": 2056.84,
    "end": 2057.78,
    "text": "can you confirm that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2058.06,
    "end": 2075.52,
    "text": "I made a very quick study actually less than half of day and told them guys your availability might be down to twenty percent because this offshore oil gas checkup was going somewhere checking up tilling there for ninety days."
  },
  {
    "start": 2076.1,
    "end": 2079.12,
    "text": "Then it went down to the water, then into its next location and ended up."
  },
  {
    "start": 2079.38,
    "end": 2085.86,
    "text": "So if you had to wait for one week or two weeks that is not so much compared with the ninety days!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2086.699,
    "end": 2094.659,
    "text": "But now when we use this check-up for installing a monopile... ...or maybe Nassel or Gondol or Rotoblades."
  },
  {
    "start": 2095.08,
    "end": 2104.58,
    "text": "You might be there only for one day And If you have NOW to wait five days Then it's no longer ninety-five percent, then you are down to twenty percent."
  },
  {
    "start": 2104.8,
    "end": 2106.62,
    "text": "Because we wait five days and work one day!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2107.18,
    "end": 2111.3,
    "text": "And this kind of things where... You really have to say oh how do I work?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2111.4,
    "end": 2112.9,
    "text": "What do i do with my system?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2112.98,
    "end": 2115.38,
    "text": "does it make sense or not makes sense?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2115.5,
    "end": 2116.4,
    "text": "and so on."
  },
  {
    "start": 2116.84,
    "end": 2121.36,
    "text": "that is what the people had learned also at beginning when they said okay why should be?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2121.46,
    "end": 2131.0,
    "text": "go without a big vessel to the harbour get five more ten more towers go back again to the offshore wind park and install them."
  },
  {
    "start": 2131.36,
    "end": 2137.26,
    "text": "Why do we not just stay there, bring the towers out into the windpark with a barge?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2138.02,
    "end": 2140.46,
    "text": "Then you have to realize guys it's not so simple."
  },
  {
    "start": 2140.84,
    "end": 2154.88,
    "text": "make a lift from maybe even standing vessel through floating boat because especially if you lift some weight The draft is getting reduced and it will follow you, so there's a big danger that you hit yourself."
  },
  {
    "start": 2155.0,
    "end": 2156.7,
    "text": "And suddenly they have to realize oh!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2157.26,
    "end": 2158.1,
    "text": "That's not easy."
  },
  {
    "start": 2158.34,
    "end": 2168.06,
    "text": "It's much easier if I'm already on my boat because i am moving and everything moves relatively the same So I can use the crane much more easily."
  },
  {
    "start": 2168.18,
    "end": 2170.8,
    "text": "All these things at beginning...I crashed."
  },
  {
    "start": 2171.52,
    "end": 2174.24,
    "text": "many meetings with people wanted to hear."
  },
  {
    "start": 2174.84,
    "end": 2176.88,
    "text": "Walter says yeah thats ok go one."
  },
  {
    "start": 2177.26,
    "end": 2178.06,
    "text": "and I said no guys"
  },
  {
    "start": 2182.3,
    "end": 2183.36,
    "text": "Navigators, table."
  },
  {
    "start": 2188.66,
    "end": 2197.86,
    "text": "Every episode we ask our guests to recommend a restaurant or bar any kind of event location anything that has to do with the sea the coast."
  },
  {
    "start": 2198.62,
    "end": 2203.06,
    "text": "Walter what is the place you recommend our listeners go and visit?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2203.52,
    "end": 2207.78,
    "text": "Actually I would say go to the Rheinische Hafen in Hamburg."
  },
  {
    "start": 2208.0,
    "end": 2210.44,
    "text": "it's directly on a small island."
  },
  {
    "start": 2210.52,
    "end": 2219.44,
    "text": "there are three canals going around called Rheinischer Hafen, so you already have the word harbour there in the name."
  },
  {
    "start": 2220.02,
    "end": 2224.16,
    "text": "The word Rheinisch comes of course when they would drink normal beer."
  },
  {
    "start": 2224.54,
    "end": 2225.92,
    "text": "They don't really have a normal beer."
  },
  {
    "start": 2226.0,
    "end": 2232.98,
    "text": "You'd think they're Kölschbier but also have Witbeer and they had their best currywurst in Hamburg."
  },
  {
    "start": 2233.06,
    "end": 2237.66,
    "text": "So that is really... And we've got our regular table here for GMT."
  },
  {
    "start": 2238.32,
    "end": 2246.88,
    "text": "I found it at eighteen years ago because my office was on the flaythof top floor, I just had to go down and make it."
  },
  {
    "start": 2247.16,
    "end": 2252.06,
    "text": "And i think that's really one nice place in Hamburg where you have good price!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2252.26,
    "end": 2256.16,
    "text": "It is always full and they can sit outside during the World Cup."
  },
  {
    "start": 2256.74,
    "end": 2259.9,
    "text": "Now tell me if people couldn't watch too much but at least at the beginning?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2259.96,
    "end": 2263.8,
    "text": "You could watch a few games outside and so on...and i think this is really a nice place."
  },
  {
    "start": 2263.98,
    "end": 2264.4,
    "text": "Excellent"
  },
  {
    "start": 2265.18,
    "end": 2268.36,
    "text": "we'll make sure to put a link to that restaurant in the show notes."
  },
  {
    "start": 2268.42,
    "end": 2269.4,
    "text": "so our listeners."
  },
  {
    "start": 2270.64,
    "end": 2275.42,
    "text": "I would like to talk a little bit about something that we mentioned earlier."
  },
  {
    "start": 2275.48,
    "end": 2276.62,
    "text": "And i talked the goals."
  },
  {
    "start": 2277.12,
    "end": 2290.62,
    "text": "Germany has set for itself, other countries of course have their own goals and you said earlier well thats a little ambitious goals will be met at least within the time frame that is being envisaged."
  },
  {
    "start": 2290.68,
    "end": 2296.94,
    "text": "Now you approach those questions, of course not from a politician but from an engineer's perspective."
  },
  {
    "start": 2298.2,
    "end": 2299.12,
    "text": "Why are you critical?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2299.18,
    "end": 2304.78,
    "text": "What are the bottlenecks in your view between us achieving these goals and not?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2305.56,
    "end": 2313.5,
    "text": "First off all we have goals which say there are no intermediate goals Like here in Dubai, we have a goal."
  },
  {
    "start": 2313.6,
    "end": 2327.38,
    "text": "We wanted to be CO₂ neutral and for the five and behalf of intermediate steps And it means every January February part of March we analyze that we reach what we needed to reach."
  },
  {
    "start": 2328.06,
    "end": 2332.2,
    "text": "is The gold still valid or maybe there are new things new technologies?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2332.3,
    "end": 2333.78,
    "text": "can we change the goals a bit?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2334.06,
    "end": 2335.38,
    "text": "continue like this?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2335.44,
    "end": 2337.84,
    "text": "That's not really done in Germany."
  },
  {
    "start": 2338.7,
    "end": 2348.3,
    "text": "It looks at the moment that their auctions now finally they go with a system which like the Stiftung of Chauvin and others are already requested in so long time."
  },
  {
    "start": 2348.36,
    "end": 2361.46,
    "text": "Because for me it's as little bit, Like what we had twenty years ago when The state was making this auction For Internet licenses And UMTS."
  },
  {
    "start": 2362.02,
    "end": 2363.14,
    "text": "Germany got So much money!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2363.9,
    "end": 2366.54,
    "text": "Now We have the slowest internet In Europe."
  },
  {
    "start": 2366.68,
    "end": 2372.5,
    "text": "I would say Fifteen years ago I was in Kazakhstan driving into the desert around the Caspian Sea."
  },
  {
    "start": 2373.0,
    "end": 2378.16,
    "text": "There were wild animals, wild horses white camels crossing the street and all that time."
  },
  {
    "start": 2378.2,
    "end": 2390.8,
    "text": "at that time fifteen years ago i had already four chee all of them now to have five chees there all their time And a little bit similar things that Germany tried too much money from auctions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2391.3,
    "end": 2393.32,
    "text": "That's not really what we should've done."
  },
  {
    "start": 2394.74,
    "end": 2398.2,
    "text": "We paid for it for two campaigns."
  },
  {
    "start": 2398.24,
    "end": 2407.48,
    "text": "there was no single bidder and before they were only the major player who are making ninety percent of their money still with oil and gas."
  },
  {
    "start": 2407.7,
    "end": 2428.26,
    "text": "And it's a little bit, a tricky thing if you have a license and there is no real time constraints when you have to fulfill that and build it and bring it online and just make your money be something different why you should ruin your own business a bit and I think that is something what they finally learned."
  },
  {
    "start": 2428.3,
    "end": 2437.9,
    "text": "And now in the future, it might be different of course because you really like this CFG contract for difference where we are leading or no."
  },
  {
    "start": 2438.18,
    "end": 2444.64,
    "text": "already for next twenty years i will get so many cents per kilowatt hour."
  },
  {
    "start": 2445.18,
    "end": 2448.52,
    "text": "then its also easier for smaller companies to go into the bank."
  },
  {
    "start": 2450.46,
    "end": 2455.46,
    "text": "what we will earn in the next years, if you want to have a loan on that and then get a loan."
  },
  {
    "start": 2455.94,
    "end": 2464.22,
    "text": "In the past they could not really say how much you can make but maybe I am not surviving for the next twenty years."
  },
  {
    "start": 2464.26,
    "end": 2475.54,
    "text": "so he has problems with this kind of things which people who are experienced from Denmark or other areas mentioned it as government and took quite long time prior."
  },
  {
    "start": 2476.02,
    "end": 2478.12,
    "text": "The government was convinced to do that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2478.6,
    "end": 2481.48,
    "text": "And the second thing is, I think it's the same."
  },
  {
    "start": 2481.92,
    "end": 2483.56,
    "text": "That's the battery storage."
  },
  {
    "start": 2483.9,
    "end": 2493.26,
    "text": "We're talking about two terawatt hours of storages One of the biggest one in Germany which are running at the moment."
  },
  {
    "start": 2493.36,
    "end": 2494.78,
    "text": "Two terawatts for an hour."
  },
  {
    "start": 2495.64,
    "end": 2500.84,
    "text": "There is exactly one windpark For two hours and then its gone."
  },
  {
    "start": 2501.28,
    "end": 2502.66,
    "text": "It means you're fully running two hours."
  },
  {
    "start": 2502.9,
    "end": 2507.86,
    "text": "If you want to charge back then this doesn't really last very long."
  },
  {
    "start": 2507.92,
    "end": 2521.14,
    "text": "And I think that's important, you need to have much more on debt and debt is again something political at the moment if you want a built battery storage area You are taxed like your user!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2522.02,
    "end": 2538.94,
    "text": "Not really a grid supporter because these units support the grid so they should not be taxed as consumers and pay taxes which we have Really streamline and make it in clear that the goal is."
  },
  {
    "start": 2539.1,
    "end": 2540.72,
    "text": "then this is there's one goal."
  },
  {
    "start": 2540.78,
    "end": 2542.54,
    "text": "And we need this, and dead, and dad, and debt."
  },
  {
    "start": 2543.12,
    "end": 2545.4,
    "text": "We need everything and then It will work."
  },
  {
    "start": 2545.94,
    "end": 2551.64,
    "text": "not if you just optimize dead and dead because then You really need to have your gas power stations."
  },
  {
    "start": 2551.7,
    "end": 2551.94,
    "text": "Yeah"
  },
  {
    "start": 2552.6,
    "end": 2553.96,
    "text": "What about port infrastructure?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2554.02,
    "end": 2556.7,
    "text": "That has often also talked about as being One bottleneck."
  },
  {
    "start": 2556.8,
    "end": 2563.02,
    "text": "keys are not where they are in terms of supporting The very heavy equipment needs to be shipped."
  },
  {
    "start": 2563.46,
    "end": 2565.3,
    "text": "Is that also an issue you see as critical?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2566.02,
    "end": 2570.5,
    "text": "It is, but it's an issue which we have to consider European wide."
  },
  {
    "start": 2571.52,
    "end": 2585.12,
    "text": "I'm working since more than thirty years from S-Berg and i know its quite a decent small harbour developed like hell because Denmark was behind that, and they really knew all the operators were coming from us."
  },
  {
    "start": 2585.76,
    "end": 2587.1,
    "text": "Then this is our home harbour!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2587.52,
    "end": 2588.8,
    "text": "And I think it's very important."
  },
  {
    "start": 2589.46,
    "end": 2598.96,
    "text": "these things we are doing actually... ...and also very important for German companies to realise that Siemens Kameser finally a few years ago did it."
  },
  {
    "start": 2599.4,
    "end": 2608.06,
    "text": "Of course if you build big rotor blades or big units.... You have to go close because you can't transport it anymore on the roads, etc."
  },
  {
    "start": 2608.78,
    "end": 2612.78,
    "text": "And I think that entire infrastructure has to come together."
  },
  {
    "start": 2612.9,
    "end": 2615.76,
    "text": "and of course You need to have reliable things."
  },
  {
    "start": 2615.82,
    "end": 2618.24,
    "text": "in a thing That's most important when we build something."
  },
  {
    "start": 2618.36,
    "end": 2622.12,
    "text": "offshore Reliability is biggest big thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 2623.38,
    "end": 2626.46,
    "text": "When i was talking about working with companies Why?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2626.82,
    "end": 2631.24,
    "text": "The oil industry or the new offshore wind industry never gives us chance."
  },
  {
    "start": 2632.14,
    "end": 2638.66,
    "text": "The other ones are already proven in similar projects that they can do it."
  },
  {
    "start": 2638.8,
    "end": 2644.96,
    "text": "That's the big difference offshore, almost every project is new."
  },
  {
    "start": 2645.26,
    "end": 2655.48,
    "text": "so you have to have a record on similar projects which were made at decent budget and I think this also very important."
  },
  {
    "start": 2655.98,
    "end": 2663.26,
    "text": "if our infrastructure of the harbour Even if there are ambitious plans, then you need to put them in concrete."
  },
  {
    "start": 2663.36,
    "end": 2666.12,
    "text": "That means that they will be able to rely on it."
  },
  {
    "start": 2666.2,
    "end": 2681.98,
    "text": "If a new windpark needs the infrastructure available for five years You have to ensure this is there because when they land and go to Asperg or somewhere else Why should they come back again?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2684.34,
    "end": 2686.16,
    "text": "Being reliable, being reliable."
  },
  {
    "start": 2686.6,
    "end": 2691.96,
    "text": "That is generating trust and that's one of the most important currencies in offshore."
  },
  {
    "start": 2692.52,
    "end": 2702.02,
    "text": "Germany has strong marine technology suppliers but when it comes to Marine or the turbine manufacturing there's not much left in Germany."
  },
  {
    "start": 2702.78,
    "end": 2706.48,
    "text": "where do you see value creation for German industry?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2706.88,
    "end": 2710.7,
    "text": "When it comes offshore wind energy in the next decades?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2711.9,
    "end": 2719.92,
    "text": "yeah I think this quite a tricky question actually because I see a lot of things which we having at the moment, quite critical."
  },
  {
    "start": 2720.04,
    "end": 2730.34,
    "text": "Because talk about Maya as an example they are building for sure their most fancy unsophisticated cruise liners in the world, there's no question."
  },
  {
    "start": 2730.68,
    "end": 2733.84,
    "text": "But when Hyundai tried to do that they had a major problem."
  },
  {
    "start": 2733.92,
    "end": 2743.4,
    "text": "suddenly and it is little bit if you are real good specialists of one area... That doesn't mean very good specialist from other areas."
  },
  {
    "start": 2744.34,
    "end": 2755.22,
    "text": "I know i was involved with some submersibles which were built Eastern Germany and the entire management came actually from outside of Germany."
  },
  {
    "start": 2755.72,
    "end": 2760.68,
    "text": "And then, at the end was we never do it again... ...and now are doing this again!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2761.74,
    "end": 2767.62,
    "text": "Building a big transformer unit that is totally different than building a cruise vessel or other things."
  },
  {
    "start": 2768.74,
    "end": 2773.66,
    "text": "And even this one manager from Remaya Shibyat said that we don't have the technology there."
  },
  {
    "start": 2773.72,
    "end": 2777.92,
    "text": "We're welding a lot of things still by hand, where others are using machines."
  },
  {
    "start": 2778.0,
    "end": 2794.76,
    "text": "and I think it is very important to take money in your hands and say let's build a shipyard which can do so professionally make it sustainable, because the sustainable is not only means that we are not harming their environment."
  },
  {
    "start": 2794.98,
    "end": 2802.36,
    "text": "Sustainable also means that a company needs to survive... ...because a company which isn't surviving the project there's really no best thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 2802.42,
    "end": 2803.96,
    "text": "and I think.. We have alot of things!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2805.08,
    "end": 2813.56,
    "text": "Because in a lot of areas i'm always surprised even Dubai or other areas made Germany still powerful."
  },
  {
    "start": 2813.98,
    "end": 2814.78,
    "text": "That is something."
  },
  {
    "start": 2815.2,
    "end": 2825.38,
    "text": "I think in Germany we talk it small already and other areas, no the German engineering science that has quite a high reputation!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2825.5,
    "end": 2840.22,
    "text": "And i think those are things where you have to concentrate again because when i am teaching at Hamburg they can make double degrees with glasgoe and the diplomat general."
  },
  {
    "start": 2840.6,
    "end": 2842.04,
    "text": "And we only give them a master!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2843.18,
    "end": 2862.6,
    "text": "Guys, that diplomat-general which was such an outstanding thing... I understand you want to have a Master but at least as second thing use it because education of the German people is really innovation."
  },
  {
    "start": 2863.72,
    "end": 2868.66,
    "text": "So many patents, so many things are developed here and then they're built somewhere else."
  },
  {
    "start": 2868.72,
    "end": 2887.18,
    "text": "And I think that's where we need also to change our infrastructure... ...that the people are proud of having a new company somewhere that the people supported in Dubai because there is an department for government which is just supporting new companies start-ups!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2887.62,
    "end": 2892.62,
    "text": "In Germany if you say To other people, oh I've generated my own startup."
  },
  {
    "start": 2892.78,
    "end": 2894.9,
    "text": "I'm generally created in a company."
  },
  {
    "start": 2895.52,
    "end": 2897.86,
    "text": "then the people say Oh you want to hide tax?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2898.0,
    "end": 2901.34,
    "text": "You wanna pay taxes and something like that...I think we have to change it."
  },
  {
    "start": 2901.4,
    "end": 2910.44,
    "text": "We really are value the achievement of companies for their heathen That some people who make a lot money Then why not actually?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2910.52,
    "end": 2910.6,
    "text": "yeah"
  },
  {
    "start": 2911.5,
    "end": 2911.78,
    "text": "Okay!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2912.78,
    "end": 2926.56,
    "text": "Well..we need offshore wind energy particularly too Complete or fulfill the goals that we need for energy transition, but there are some obstacles in their as far as I understand you at least less than engineering field."
  },
  {
    "start": 2926.62,
    "end": 2930.24,
    "text": "But they're more in economic also political sphere."
  },
  {
    "start": 2930.38,
    "end": 2932.34,
    "text": "so bit of a mixed picture."
  },
  {
    "start": 2932.4,
    "end": 2933.68,
    "text": "let's see where end up."
  },
  {
    "start": 2933.8,
    "end": 2940.4,
    "text": "hopefully will come closer to those because i think important if want tackle climate change."
  },
  {
    "start": 2941.38,
    "end": 2942.9,
    "text": "That was very insightful session."
  },
  {
    "start": 2943.02,
    "end": 2944.0,
    "text": "thanks for joining me today."
  },
  {
    "start": 2944.3,
    "end": 2944.74,
    "text": "You're welcome."
  },
  {
    "start": 2944.78,
    "end": 2947.78,
    "text": "And maybe one last word, I started of course with engineering."
  },
  {
    "start": 2947.84,
    "end": 2951.56,
    "text": "and then you realize but the big decisions are not made by engineering."
  },
  {
    "start": 2951.62,
    "end": 2960.36,
    "text": "they translate what you develop to their language, and then you might have success."
  },
  {
    "start": 2960.58,
    "end": 2961.18,
    "text": "Absolutely!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2961.96,
    "end": 2962.64,
    "text": "And vice versa."
  },
  {
    "start": 2962.68,
    "end": 2975.96,
    "text": "I guess it would also help if politicians and business managers would understand the constraints of engineering and physics... ...and i think your a wonderful example someone who has been able to bridge those divides.. ..and that's very helpful."
  },
  {
    "start": 2976.34,
    "end": 2978.34,
    "text": "Thanks once again for this insightful conversation."
  },
  {
    "start": 2978.56,
    "end": 2981.0,
    "text": "Thankyou very much and hope could share"
  },
  {
    "start": 2992.02,
    "end": 2992.28,
    "text": "something."
  },
  {
    "start": 2993.12,
    "end": 2998.08,
    "text": "If you like the show, please leave us a review and rating on your favorite podcasting platform."
  },
  {
    "start": 2998.96,
    "end": 3008.04,
    "text": "And don't forget to check out the show notes and more information about The German Maritime Center at maritimemetas.de."
  }
]