[
  {
    "start": 0.14,
    "end": 8.44,
    "text": "Welcome to Software Testing Unleashed, the podcast for testers developers and all software people who want to create best quality software."
  },
  {
    "start": 8.78,
    "end": 10.18,
    "text": "My name is Ritchie."
  },
  {
    "start": 10.22,
    "end": 18.74,
    "text": "I'm a software-quality coach author & keynote speaker And happy to bring you an episode live from The Hustaf Conference in Budapest."
  },
  {
    "start": 19.24,
    "end": 22.4,
    "text": "Hustef is one of the greatest conferences I've ever been to."
  },
  {
    "start": 22.6,
    "end": 30.48,
    "text": "Top quality talks, amazing people and that unique mix of friendly and intense atmosphere you only find at truly great events!"
  },
  {
    "start": 31.2,
    "end": 35.1,
    "text": "If you have ever get a chance go there seriously – You will love it."
  },
  {
    "start": 35.7,
    "end": 37.58,
    "text": "My guest today is Steve Watson."
  },
  {
    "start": 37.86,
    "end": 48.34,
    "text": "Steve is an experienced Quality Engineer Manager who leads and coaches testers to help them be the best they can be And One path to being The Best Is Critical Thinking."
  },
  {
    "start": 48.64,
    "end": 59.4,
    "text": "So we talked about what does it mean to be a critical thinker in the age of AI when it comes to testing and why is so important to switch on our brain, ask the right questions."
  },
  {
    "start": 59.76,
    "end": 61.6,
    "text": "And do what you can best!"
  },
  {
    "start": 62.22,
    "end": 63.66,
    "text": "Now enjoy this episode!"
  },
  {
    "start": 79.08,
    "end": 82.74,
    "text": "I think we're in for a fun time."
  },
  {
    "start": 83.74,
    "end": 89.32,
    "text": "Yeah, so... We have to clarify the situation with that recording."
  },
  {
    "start": 89.7,
    "end": 97.08,
    "text": "at The Who staff and i had some technical issues And I cannot use the recordings So you have to redo it now remote?"
  },
  {
    "start": 103.24,
    "end": 105.68,
    "text": "The challenge is remembering what we said three months ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 106.16,
    "end": 107.46,
    "text": "Yeah, but nobody knows!"
  },
  {
    "start": 108.8,
    "end": 109.24,
    "text": "That's true."
  },
  {
    "start": 109.42,
    "end": 110.96,
    "text": "it only you and I would know... Yes"
  },
  {
    "start": 111.04,
    "end": 112.32,
    "text": "so we can talk about anything."
  },
  {
    "start": 115.28,
    "end": 119.22,
    "text": "And again this year's Hustef too i hope?"
  },
  {
    "start": 120.22,
    "end": 121.96,
    "text": "Very much looking forward to it yes."
  },
  {
    "start": 123.88,
    "end": 129.66,
    "text": "I think with a one-digit inventory number at the Hustef."
  },
  {
    "start": 132.6,
    "end": 133.76,
    "text": "Yes, it's a nice way of saying."
  },
  {
    "start": 133.88,
    "end": 134.84,
    "text": "I've been around awhile."
  },
  {
    "start": 137.12,
    "end": 144.04,
    "text": "And I'd be to HUSDEF with twenty-twenty five was my fourth visit and It really is one of the best conferences."
  },
  {
    "start": 144.9,
    "end": 148.54,
    "text": "Um i've gotta say its just run by such a really lovely group Of people."
  },
  {
    "start": 148.9,
    "end": 153.68,
    "text": "um and you're just made To feel so welcome and included as a speaker."
  },
  {
    "start": 153.72,
    "end": 159.1,
    "text": "You go along and enjoy it Take away all the stress and think you perform better."
  },
  {
    "start": 159.16,
    "end": 159.46,
    "text": "because"
  },
  {
    "start": 160.74,
    "end": 161.54,
    "text": "Yeah, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 161.7,
    "end": 170.62,
    "text": "I think that's so true because when i arrived at it was so nice It was such a great spirit there and all people were so friendly And talking chatting to me."
  },
  {
    "start": 171.02,
    "end": 172.52,
    "text": "That is really nice!"
  },
  {
    "start": 173.4,
    "end": 175.08,
    "text": "Really want come back this year too."
  },
  {
    "start": 176.5,
    "end": 179.3,
    "text": "Yes you've got to bring your recording equipment."
  },
  {
    "start": 179.68,
    "end": 179.9,
    "text": "Just"
  },
  {
    "start": 180.64,
    "end": 181.6,
    "text": "press the right buttons"
  },
  {
    "start": 183.38,
    "end": 183.92,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 187.24,
    "end": 206.74,
    "text": "So you had a speech about critical thinking in the age of AI, and so I think it's... That is so important that ...I'm so happy we can redo this topic here now because i think one of our big topics have to face as a tester at present or future!"
  },
  {
    "start": 207.9,
    "end": 210.02,
    "text": "Yeah,"
  },
  {
    "start": 210.3,
    "end": 212.1,
    "text": "I mean is one of those buzzwords isn't?"
  },
  {
    "start": 212.2,
    "end": 216.48,
    "text": "you can open linked in or something without finding someone talking about AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 217.9,
    "end": 220.96,
    "text": "But it's what we as testers have to think very carefully."
  },
  {
    "start": 221.06,
    "end": 232.82,
    "text": "how use it and this up to us make sure that we are not gonna use the word guardians but we are sensibly using the tolls because that's why ii is a tall."
  },
  {
    "start": 232.88,
    "end": 237.54,
    "text": "it doesn't replace what we do but it helps us should help us to do jobs."
  },
  {
    "start": 237.58,
    "end": 238.38,
    "text": "that would be better."
  },
  {
    "start": 239.36,
    "end": 245.52,
    "text": "But if AI isn't regulated, If it's not used in the right way then all sorts of issues can happen."
  },
  {
    "start": 245.58,
    "end": 253.88,
    "text": "And I just felt very strongly that... ...I wanted to stand up and say look as testing professionals we have a role here."
  },
  {
    "start": 254.94,
    "end": 262.46,
    "text": "That this- We have really sort of upped our game a little bit.. ..and its'nt about being fearful or thinking oh AI takes out jobs."
  },
  {
    "start": 262.66,
    "end": 266.66,
    "text": "It is about pivoting and saying actually what do you need to do differently?"
  },
  {
    "start": 269.36,
    "end": 270.88,
    "text": "operating as testers before."
  },
  {
    "start": 272.22,
    "end": 273.86,
    "text": "That's what drove me to do that talk?"
  },
  {
    "start": 275.38,
    "end": 276.72,
    "text": "Yeah, so true!"
  },
  {
    "start": 277.8,
    "end": 278.44,
    "text": "What do you think?"
  },
  {
    "start": 279.02,
    "end": 286.84,
    "text": "because we have tools in the history a lot of tools for test automation and stuff like this... What makes AI is so different from us?"
  },
  {
    "start": 288.6,
    "end": 295.98,
    "text": "I think it's the difference between us telling at all what we wanted to do by sort of crafting on the keyboard to collaborating with the tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 296.06,
    "end": 297.12,
    "text": "It completely different."
  },
  {
    "start": 297.86,
    "end": 310.34,
    "text": "Now, you will ask a tool for its opinion on something or to go away and write something for you as opposed to using the tool to right code like Selenium."
  },
  {
    "start": 310.38,
    "end": 312.96,
    "text": "You'd sit there and use it in C-Shop whatever language."
  },
  {
    "start": 313.62,
    "end": 321.42,
    "text": "now the AI tools can actually write that code for you so we're moving away from telling your computer what to do to actually collaborating with them."
  },
  {
    "start": 321.48,
    "end": 322.7,
    "text": "That has taken mind."
  },
  {
    "start": 322.8,
    "end": 329.02,
    "text": "shift adapting to change doesn't come easily toward of us."
  },
  {
    "start": 332.76,
    "end": 339.52,
    "text": "But I think it's the biggest shift in our recent history, and we've had evolution of tools."
  },
  {
    "start": 340.08,
    "end": 344.58,
    "text": "but this is very different... And its exciting!"
  },
  {
    "start": 345.46,
    "end": 349.1,
    "text": "Yeah, I think that's where we have very great times now."
  },
  {
    "start": 349.2,
    "end": 361.8,
    "text": "And so much to explore and find out with all the tools... My childhood always looked Star Trek and science fiction stuff!"
  },
  {
    "start": 362.38,
    "end": 364.12,
    "text": "Now a little bit we are there!"
  },
  {
    "start": 367.0,
    "end": 369.0,
    "text": "It seems it has happened really quickly?"
  },
  {
    "start": 369.98,
    "end": 370.44,
    "text": "That is true."
  },
  {
    "start": 372.26,
    "end": 382.1,
    "text": "You said you had to deal with the change, but what is the problem if we can do not use AI in their right way?"
  },
  {
    "start": 385.46,
    "end": 390.72,
    "text": "That's a great point because I think there are two different concerns that i've got."
  },
  {
    "start": 390.88,
    "end": 393.66,
    "text": "One is about our own cognitive ability and i'll come back to them."
  },
  {
    "start": 394.46,
    "end": 401.22,
    "text": "But I think AI tools contain biases And they don't always know who they really are."
  },
  {
    "start": 401.4,
    "end": 411.34,
    "text": "So If you go into any of these tools but you go to any AI tool and ask a question, give me an opinion."
  },
  {
    "start": 411.48,
    "end": 411.82,
    "text": "Give me a"
  },
  {
    "start": 411.96,
    "end": 412.32,
    "text": "summary.\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 413.64,
    "end": 415.96,
    "text": "You can see AI tools everywhere giving new summaries."
  },
  {
    "start": 417.12,
    "end": 421.46,
    "text": "The information they provide is only as good the information sources that are using."
  },
  {
    "start": 422.64,
    "end": 431.7,
    "text": "Now if you're not using your skills how do I know it's of quality?"
  },
  {
    "start": 432.16,
    "end": 434.3,
    "text": "How do I know it's broadly representative?"
  },
  {
    "start": 434.36,
    "end": 437.18,
    "text": "how Do i Know, its not biased towards one judgment or another."
  },
  {
    "start": 437.74,
    "end": 446.54,
    "text": "One side Or Another dig deeper and then we get into all sorts of biases that can have detrimental effects on humans."
  },
  {
    "start": 448.5,
    "end": 460.16,
    "text": "you know things That are built by ai tools that are geared to people who Are all middle-aged western Of a certain socio economic bracket."
  },
  {
    "start": 461.2,
    "end": 463.7,
    "text": "Who would disadvantage those who are not in those brackets?"
  },
  {
    "start": 464.28,
    "end": 473.92,
    "text": "so that's where the dangers line when i think we need to be really careful and as testers week jobs always been too."
  },
  {
    "start": 474.0,
    "end": 475.1,
    "text": "Uncover information."
  },
  {
    "start": 475.4,
    "end": 476.6,
    "text": "it's about finding bugs."
  },
  {
    "start": 476.78,
    "end": 480.56,
    "text": "its uncovering information enable someone to make an informed decision."
  },
  {
    "start": 481.94,
    "end": 486.86,
    "text": "thats even more important if you don't feel like information provided is of good enough quality."
  },
  {
    "start": 486.98,
    "end": 490.46,
    "text": "we need call out We need to go and work with the people that create a tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 490.52,
    "end": 492.36,
    "text": "To say, well where is this source of information?"
  },
  {
    "start": 493.4,
    "end": 505.1,
    "text": "And we need do our own independent verification not just take something that AI tells us or say oh That's true unless you've given it a piece of writing."
  },
  {
    "start": 505.16,
    "end": 509.14,
    "text": "let's say you want to Restructure some thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 509.64,
    "end": 510.66,
    "text": "like me at the moment I'm struggling."
  },
  {
    "start": 510.82,
    "end": 511.58,
    "text": "think certain words."
  },
  {
    "start": 511.64,
    "end": 513.86,
    "text": "Let's say your trying to write an email on his Friday afternoon."
  },
  {
    "start": 513.919,
    "end": 517.059,
    "text": "any thinking Struggling with this AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 517.12,
    "end": 518.299,
    "text": "tell me how i could right this."
  },
  {
    "start": 518.88,
    "end": 525.84,
    "text": "You've given it the information to work from but if you're asking me to give your opinion on something where uv not supplied reference data."
  },
  {
    "start": 526.68,
    "end": 532.0,
    "text": "You have a duty and an obligation understand when that's wrong, thats my opinion."
  },
  {
    "start": 532.08,
    "end": 534.88,
    "text": "i'm not sure everyone will agree with me but I think its really important."
  },
  {
    "start": 535.46,
    "end": 538.2,
    "text": "why would you just take some thing it tells us being truthful?"
  },
  {
    "start": 538.86,
    "end": 540.44,
    "text": "If you haven't double checked yourself"
  },
  {
    "start": 540.94,
    "end": 558.0,
    "text": "yeah here in the other side uh... when we just use the AI We missed a part where we learn how to review the stuff which goes on, because... ...we have not the knowledge about history of this stuff that is created there."
  },
  {
    "start": 559.78,
    "end": 566.08,
    "text": "That's true but I think as testers.. ..we've always been able say what are you expecting us see here?"
  },
  {
    "start": 566.18,
    "end": 570.2,
    "text": "And go and look back over requirements then we think okay.... What do we try to achieve here?"
  },
  {
    "start": 570.74,
    "end": 574.46,
    "text": "We should question their requirements if they don't make sense!"
  },
  {
    "start": 574.84,
    "end": 578.44,
    "text": "One of the things I love doing is actually looking back through requirements and doing a review."
  },
  {
    "start": 579.28,
    "end": 590.48,
    "text": "And thinking if i was, If I'm that person you know work for an airline so...if..If I am a pilot....and need to see something on my iPad.....I don't really have to be a pilot."
  },
  {
    "start": 590.66,
    "end": 594.6,
    "text": "use common sense where there's something looks right or not To question it."
  },
  {
    "start": 595.08,
    "end": 597.52,
    "text": "So we should still use those questioning abilities."
  },
  {
    "start": 598.94,
    "end": 602.58,
    "text": "So We......I think we HAVE THOSE ABILITIES."
  },
  {
    "start": 604.74,
    "end": 608.4,
    "text": "Transfer them across and start questioning the AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 610.2,
    "end": 618.22,
    "text": "So if somebody comes to you, says here's something that I've created And it could be create a test plan whole test approach or a whole series of tests?"
  },
  {
    "start": 618.92,
    "end": 621.98,
    "text": "You just said his requirements document AI tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 622.7,
    "end": 623.8,
    "text": "give me everything you got."
  },
  {
    "start": 624.6,
    "end": 627.96,
    "text": "Now all do is take down go yet great move on."
  },
  {
    "start": 628.9,
    "end": 630.18,
    "text": "He haven't done your job properly."
  },
  {
    "start": 631.3,
    "end": 635.26,
    "text": "If you look at that and say, there's a good start point but what data have you referenced?"
  },
  {
    "start": 635.52,
    "end": 637.9,
    "text": "Have you referenced everything I would want to look at."
  },
  {
    "start": 639.48,
    "end": 640.24,
    "text": "What could be missing?"
  },
  {
    "start": 641.68,
    "end": 643.48,
    "text": "You've got to ask in those questions!"
  },
  {
    "start": 646.24,
    "end": 658.74,
    "text": "Yeah it is so important... How to say, how can we gain this skill that more focus on these critical thinking?"
  },
  {
    "start": 661.18,
    "end": 670.96,
    "text": "I think sometimes when you get lost in the AI world... ...how do we trigger us there and use our critical thinking."
  },
  {
    "start": 674.12,
    "end": 676.7,
    "text": "We have to be aware of the limitations of AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 676.86,
    "end": 685.16,
    "text": "so One of the guys that I work with at Easyjack, Adam Bacon he said treat AI like a knowledgeable team member."
  },
  {
    "start": 685.3,
    "end": 687.02,
    "text": "The person you would go to for advice."
  },
  {
    "start": 688.22,
    "end": 692.68,
    "text": "Now if you're going ask your team members something and they tell you Something how many of you?"
  },
  {
    "start": 693.12,
    "end": 700.06,
    "text": "Would say yep That's perfectly true Without doing any more checking perhaps You wouldn't you look oh that's brilliant."
  },
  {
    "start": 700.1,
    "end": 701.62,
    "text": "there'll go do some more investigation."
  },
  {
    "start": 701.76,
    "end": 702.86,
    "text": "Thank-you've helped me with that."
  },
  {
    "start": 703.44,
    "end": 707.54,
    "text": "You take it as maybe most of what you need, but still do a little bit of due diligence around there."
  },
  {
    "start": 708.14,
    "end": 709.4,
    "text": "Why would AI be any different?"
  },
  {
    "start": 711.5,
    "end": 717.88,
    "text": "It's data source is the reference point and tool that your using And doesn't mean its right all time."
  },
  {
    "start": 718.26,
    "end": 719.22,
    "text": "I think we have this skills."
  },
  {
    "start": 719.32,
    "end": 720.98,
    "text": "i don't think to relearn them."
  },
  {
    "start": 721.72,
    "end": 740.62,
    "text": "We just have repurposed them Humans...I dont know if u saw the talk i did But i found a picture A pathway Where it's tarmac and then there is a little cut corner where people have walked across grass."
  },
  {
    "start": 741.52,
    "end": 743.3,
    "text": "We're humans in lazy, we take shortcuts!"
  },
  {
    "start": 744.92,
    "end": 750.22,
    "text": "Now its so easy for us to say AI tools will do everything for us right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 750.46,
    "end": 751.32,
    "text": "We just won't bother them."
  },
  {
    "start": 752.48,
    "end": 753.34,
    "text": "That the point."
  },
  {
    "start": 753.52,
    "end": 756.5,
    "text": "that starts to switch a bit."
  },
  {
    "start": 756.96,
    "end": 762.82,
    "text": "So at this moment all of our brains are used constantly And haven't relied on AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 764.0,
    "end": 765.4,
    "text": "Fast forward five or ten years."
  },
  {
    "start": 766.54,
    "end": 774.64,
    "text": "if all we've done is ask AI to do things for us and We don't know what the outcome should be because we've lost ability The scales of tipped."
  },
  {
    "start": 775.9,
    "end": 778.32,
    "text": "That's the point where your question becomes relevant."
  },
  {
    "start": 778.42,
    "end": 781.98,
    "text": "Because if we lose those skills, that's when I'm gonna have to get them back."
  },
  {
    "start": 782.4,
    "end": 782.8,
    "text": "So the keys."
  },
  {
    "start": 782.86,
    "end": 783.96,
    "text": "Don't use him in the first place."
  },
  {
    "start": 784.08,
    "end": 785.44,
    "text": "yeah Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 786.56,
    "end": 796.02,
    "text": "And I think it's not so easy because when we see the output of JetGVT and Gemini, It always looks so smooth."
  },
  {
    "start": 796.26,
    "end": 798.82,
    "text": "You said that you want to take a short way?"
  },
  {
    "start": 799.76,
    "end": 801.86,
    "text": "When do we have the output from JetGvt"
  },
  {
    "start": 802.0,
    "end": 802.66,
    "text": "etc.,"
  },
  {
    "start": 803.32,
    "end": 804.68,
    "text": "this is very short-way!"
  },
  {
    "start": 805.08,
    "end": 809.72,
    "text": "So sophisticated, so smoothly written... I just wanted to take it!"
  },
  {
    "start": 810.12,
    "end": 814.22,
    "text": "It was really nice Because"
  },
  {
    "start": 814.4,
    "end": 814.82,
    "text": "it's easy."
  },
  {
    "start": 815.96,
    "end": 821.4,
    "text": "But you can always look at something and ask it, where are you getting your reference data from?"
  },
  {
    "start": 821.96,
    "end": 826.02,
    "text": "It's not difficult for us to do I just think because we're all humans."
  },
  {
    "start": 826.12,
    "end": 827.26,
    "text": "We're all inherently lazy."
  },
  {
    "start": 827.38,
    "end": 828.68,
    "text": "We all love taking shortcuts!"
  },
  {
    "start": 829.24,
    "end": 830.06,
    "text": "It would be so easy."
  },
  {
    "start": 830.28,
    "end": 842.2,
    "text": "go great this is gonna do half my job for me...I'll sit back and have a cup of tea but we shouldn't do that..we should be thinking great thats done the bulk work now whats the bit i need When"
  },
  {
    "start": 844.68,
    "end": 849.18,
    "text": "you when we look at your daily work, so how?"
  },
  {
    "start": 850.02,
    "end": 859.82,
    "text": "Where do you see the benefits of AI in your work where you can really Work with it like a like aspiring like and with their review off to output."
  },
  {
    "start": 860.08,
    "end": 863.08,
    "text": "There was there real benefit for your daily daily worked today."
  },
  {
    "start": 863.14,
    "end": 863.82,
    "text": "What do you think?"
  },
  {
    "start": 865.78,
    "end": 870.24,
    "text": "I did have some really good time savings With something i was doing."
  },
  {
    "start": 870.68,
    "end": 876.46,
    "text": "i wanted To find out what people In our organization understood between the terms testing and quality engineering."
  },
  {
    "start": 877.4,
    "end": 881.88,
    "text": "That's a whole different discussion, but I wanted to see whether people understood it on what they thought."
  },
  {
    "start": 882.5,
    "end": 889.4,
    "text": "so i asked some questions of two user groups and collated all the information And I thought It is going take me ages to do that."
  },
  {
    "start": 890.04,
    "end": 890.52,
    "text": "Hangon a minute!"
  },
  {
    "start": 890.62,
    "end": 891.84,
    "text": "I wonder if AI could."
  },
  {
    "start": 892.84,
    "end": 906.72,
    "text": "So...I got AI to Take the answers from one group Look at them for commonalities and themes and differences Do the same for the other group and then compare both."
  },
  {
    "start": 907.56,
    "end": 914.74,
    "text": "So I got three sets of data out there, And then i've got it to present me in a format that could take another group."
  },
  {
    "start": 916.0,
    "end": 929.12,
    "text": "The whole thing took maybe couple hours... ...and was thinking this would take days because you use Microsoft Forms so all your data is in Excel tabs."
  },
  {
    "start": 929.64,
    "end": 933.46,
    "text": "You asked about ten different questions And you've got different people answering."
  },
  {
    "start": 933.58,
    "end": 935.62,
    "text": "some and not all are answering in different ways."
  },
  {
    "start": 936.48,
    "end": 952.28,
    "text": "The AI tool was able to go through call out key phrases, but because I knew the data set that it was using... ...I didn't have to worry about what could be missing externally.. ..I just needed make sure i hadn't missed anything from the data that had used But actually did a really good job of summarizing."
  },
  {
    "start": 953.02,
    "end": 954.4,
    "text": "Here's the points that people understand."
  },
  {
    "start": 954.46,
    "end": 955.58,
    "text": "here is the point where they don't."
  },
  {
    "start": 957.52,
    "end": 964.72,
    "text": "And within testing community outside the testing community These are the common themes, these are differences."
  },
  {
    "start": 965.38,
    "end": 969.5,
    "text": "And it enabled me to have a look and say actually here's where we need some more work from education."
  },
  {
    "start": 970.14,
    "end": 972.94,
    "text": "so It was really useful for that point of view."
  },
  {
    "start": 976.14,
    "end": 977.8,
    "text": "There is still something to do with AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 978.1,
    "end": 985.72,
    "text": "More recently I worked in my way through about two hundred different requirements To see whether i could find any questions."
  },
  {
    "start": 985.86,
    "end": 988.52,
    "text": "I had Any ambiguities or anything else That I wanted to question."
  },
  {
    "start": 991.72,
    "end": 992.94,
    "text": "It's getting late in the day."
  },
  {
    "start": 993.48,
    "end": 1016.38,
    "text": "This is where the laziness comes and let's see if I can help me, you know not to offload it but just to say... And i put into a tool to say okay highlight anything that's ambiguous doesn't make any logical sense..I gave it a few pointers But actually when it came back with it it called out things That was happy with."
  },
  {
    "start": 1016.42,
    "end": 1017.72,
    "text": "then it missed things that I wasn't."
  },
  {
    "start": 1019.2,
    "end": 1022.3,
    "text": "So I thought actually Is it worth trying To keep retraining?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1023.86,
    "end": 1025.099,
    "text": "Because i know what im looking for."
  },
  {
    "start": 1025.3,
    "end": 1026.099,
    "text": "ill do that myself."
  },
  {
    "start": 1026.22,
    "end": 1027.92,
    "text": "and part of the journey is knowing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1038.3,
    "end": 1040.16,
    "text": "New technology for mainstream."
  },
  {
    "start": 1040.859,
    "end": 1041.92,
    "text": "It's about three years."
  },
  {
    "start": 1041.98,
    "end": 1050.62,
    "text": "Okay, it's not that new but how to integrate in our work is I think we have no real blueprint up till now."
  },
  {
    "start": 1050.7,
    "end": 1057.68,
    "text": "so we have to Evaluate and learn how to use its in our daily life on a good and proper way."
  },
  {
    "start": 1059.22,
    "end": 1060.36,
    "text": "We are learning as we go."
  },
  {
    "start": 1061.58,
    "end": 1064.74,
    "text": "the organization That i'm working For Is Learning at The Same Time?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1065.34,
    "end": 1073.0,
    "text": "And that's one of the nice things is we're all on same journey and it interesting to see how will evolve with this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1073.46,
    "end": 1080.12,
    "text": "Where would be in five or ten years, I'm thinking where were you at next year?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1081.06,
    "end": 1100.68,
    "text": "Because they move so quickly what skills are those who have been in secondary school college going to pick up because AI part their daily lives And they're going to pick it up a lot quicker than those of us who've been around a bit longer."
  },
  {
    "start": 1100.8,
    "end": 1107.96,
    "text": "So, you know we've got probably steeper learning curve because we have re-learn how do things that were done previously differently?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1108.3,
    "end": 1110.06,
    "text": "They are just gonna learn How To Use AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 1111.74,
    "end": 1132.14,
    "text": "But there comes an education piece not only about how we learned but I think We need help train the next generation and use skills or knowledge That we have and scepticism that we ought Have make sure that we pass on Because the risk that we have is there, you know We will come along and say well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1132.18,
    "end": 1133.08,
    "text": "We used to do it this way."
  },
  {
    "start": 1133.3,
    "end": 1135.64,
    "text": "You know AI I would do it This Way but?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1136.78,
    "end": 1140.92,
    "text": "We're gonna question It which has got To make sure anybody new to The workplace doesn't Come in And go."
  },
  {
    "start": 1141.22,
    "end": 1145.76,
    "text": "AI'll Do everything for me great because they don't Know how things work previously."
  },
  {
    "start": 1146.94,
    "end": 1161.88,
    "text": "So we Have to learn to use AI and think about How we transfer some of those skills That people are not going to inherently have In the future And it brings different challenges."
  },
  {
    "start": 1163.34,
    "end": 1164.96,
    "text": "Which is fascinating, isn't really?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1165.32,
    "end": 1181.06,
    "text": "Yeah that's so true because I think... For all the critical thinking stuff when I look at trainings and so on, it's always integrated but not really obvious."
  },
  {
    "start": 1181.68,
    "end": 1184.4,
    "text": "We talk about test methods or automation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1185.82,
    "end": 1190.12,
    "text": "to learn how to ask questions is a very important thing even more now."
  },
  {
    "start": 1190.84,
    "end": 1198.1,
    "text": "So this one skill as you said we have to give to juniors and next generation too."
  },
  {
    "start": 1198.26,
    "end": 1199.78,
    "text": "I'm"
  },
  {
    "start": 1199.88,
    "end": 1205.3,
    "text": "thinking about, you know how to do something like that because i realized when did the talk at HUSDEF."
  },
  {
    "start": 1205.72,
    "end": 1213.22,
    "text": "I've sort of stood up there and said here's a problem didn't really tell people How To Solve It but You Can't Really In Twenty-Five Minutes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1213.28,
    "end": 1226.76,
    "text": "But it made me think maybe That'S Something That I can Try And Start Looking Into A Bit More Creating A Workshop Or Something Maybe That Will Drive Others To Also Do Similar Things."
  },
  {
    "start": 1227.7,
    "end": 1232.92,
    "text": "So Collectively, we're able to help transfer the skills that we have for our next generation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1234.5,
    "end": 1239.28,
    "text": "I think it will be a good thing today – We should always try and help each other improve things!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1243.24,
    "end": 1260.1,
    "text": "What comes into my mind is when as a tester you can learn about critical thinking part or challenge your output with AI Also, there is a huge outcome from all the coding stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 1260.28,
    "end": 1265.86,
    "text": "The developers who are creating code with co-pilots and vibecoding."
  },
  {
    "start": 1267.28,
    "end": 1276.88,
    "text": "we get much more output now than this stage of development process to us not knowing if it's AI driven or not."
  },
  {
    "start": 1277.52,
    "end": 1290.22,
    "text": "so do you have any idea how deal with that better in the future, because we have up to now already a lot of work to do and I think it's even get more when the code mess is exploding."
  },
  {
    "start": 1293.84,
    "end": 1300.8,
    "text": "It's tough one because you're going end-up with AI creating the code for developers right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1301.16,
    "end": 1305.36,
    "text": "And AI creating tests... To test the code that AI wrote!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1306.54,
    "end": 1308.4,
    "text": "i'm much in the way that you have."
  },
  {
    "start": 1308.48,
    "end": 1310.54,
    "text": "developers writing code and test is right."
  },
  {
    "start": 1310.58,
    "end": 1312.14,
    "text": "encode to test a developer's coach."
  },
  {
    "start": 1312.96,
    "end": 1315.92,
    "text": "all this gonna changes who's write the code or what he's writing because."
  },
  {
    "start": 1316.62,
    "end": 1318.66,
    "text": "There still needs to be some level of validation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1318.84,
    "end": 1321.76,
    "text": "it still comes down to humans, do some respects."
  },
  {
    "start": 1321.88,
    "end": 1324.28,
    "text": "i don't know whether matters who writes the code."
  },
  {
    "start": 1324.38,
    "end": 1328.42,
    "text": "i think use the code doing what its supposed to do and is if the right quality."
  },
  {
    "start": 1329.14,
    "end": 1330.12,
    "text": "That still matters."
  },
  {
    "start": 1331.0,
    "end": 1332.8,
    "text": "so roll."
  },
  {
    "start": 1334.36,
    "end": 1337.04,
    "text": "i think the focus of our role Is still the same thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1339.14,
    "end": 1344.76,
    "text": "We need to provide something to an end user, To achieve some output?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1345.54,
    "end": 1346.84,
    "text": "At the end of day there's always a user."
  },
  {
    "start": 1346.9,
    "end": 1348.88,
    "text": "at the end it focus on that goal."
  },
  {
    "start": 1349.06,
    "end": 1351.14,
    "text": "what are we trying to achieve Now?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1351.82,
    "end": 1356.44,
    "text": "is the code written by AI or human not be flippant but I don't really care."
  },
  {
    "start": 1357.04,
    "end": 1357.92,
    "text": "What i care about."
  },
  {
    "start": 1358.5,
    "end": 1361.16,
    "text": "does deliver was expected Or doesn' t know?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1361.56,
    "end": 1362.8,
    "text": "and how do find out?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1363.66,
    "end": 1371.28,
    "text": "now can use tools help me And they'll give me lots of answers, but does that leave other answers or not?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1372.44,
    "end": 1377.24,
    "text": "So... That's where I think the focus will be."
  },
  {
    "start": 1379.0,
    "end": 1383.06,
    "text": "There is still going to a code quality issue But can we fix it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1384.56,
    "end": 1385.0,
    "text": "Yeah, I'm just."
  },
  {
    "start": 1385.3,
    "end": 1386.04,
    "text": "it's interesting one."
  },
  {
    "start": 1386.34,
    "end": 1389.24,
    "text": "Does it matter whether AI writes the code that you might be better quality?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1389.32,
    "end": 1390.56,
    "text": "But don't tell the developers as I said"
  },
  {
    "start": 1392.98,
    "end": 1394.28,
    "text": "we Don't know what is there output"
  },
  {
    "start": 1395.4,
    "end": 1397.38,
    "text": "so they might get very upset."
  },
  {
    "start": 1398.28,
    "end": 1400.42,
    "text": "yeah That's true here."
  },
  {
    "start": 1401.38,
    "end": 1405.72,
    "text": "What do you think when we look at their AI stuff now?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1407.0,
    "end": 1408.98,
    "text": "Is the role of the test changing?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1409.14,
    "end": 1416.36,
    "text": "or as you said, I mentioned a little bit so we still have to put look at it for end user."
  },
  {
    "start": 1416.72,
    "end": 1420.04,
    "text": "But do think our rule is changing in next years?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1420.2,
    "end": 1423.32,
    "text": "Or just doing more stuff?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1425.28,
    "end": 1434.66,
    "text": "You know the test of role isn't just about going in writing some tests, running some tests flagging some bugs and that's it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1435.4,
    "end": 1437.16,
    "text": "It has always been broader than that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1438.14,
    "end": 1443.66,
    "text": "I think we have even more of a role now in questioning requirements and questioning."
  },
  {
    "start": 1444.3,
    "end": 1458.32,
    "text": "you know anything that is produced because Requirements could be AI-produced they can produce by human but we should still question And i think The danger Is That We Back Off and We Shouldn'T Be Doing Now."
  },
  {
    "start": 1458.38,
    "end": 1462.28,
    "text": "so It's our off of focus."
  },
  {
    "start": 1462.38,
    "end": 1464.36,
    "text": "Our task is still the same."
  },
  {
    "start": 1464.46,
    "end": 1468.4,
    "text": "how we do it would differ because will use more AI tools."
  },
  {
    "start": 1468.58,
    "end": 1469.4,
    "text": "that's inevitable."
  },
  {
    "start": 1470.12,
    "end": 1475.74,
    "text": "We're already using and whether we think we do or not like I can't be many people in there In now countries."
  },
  {
    "start": 1475.82,
    "end": 1491.52,
    "text": "you haven't used a i-tools Because they just embedded any phones as well But it's just Harnessing us skills, I think I think we need to put more time effort and training into our analytical skills."
  },
  {
    "start": 1491.58,
    "end": 1502.52,
    "text": "It's always worried me that, and I did a talk on this... I can't remember how many years ago it could be ten-years or more but there is massive imbalance in training as testers."
  },
  {
    "start": 1503.24,
    "end": 1506.32,
    "text": "Eighty, ninety percent of your time you spent learning to write some code."
  },
  {
    "start": 1508.02,
    "end": 1509.14,
    "text": "How much do you actually invest?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1509.86,
    "end": 1510.84,
    "text": "doing the job better?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1511.64,
    "end": 1514.04,
    "text": "Just because you write code doesn't make you a better tester."
  },
  {
    "start": 1516.34,
    "end": 1524.8,
    "text": "We need to address And if AI is going to take away maybe writing some of that coding we currently do as testers, We have more time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1525.64,
    "end": 1526.42,
    "text": "How do you use it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1527.48,
    "end": 1529.3,
    "text": "That's what changes for us I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 1530.64,
    "end": 1538.56,
    "text": "so testing needs to happen and If we want to stay relevant then need to show that we are keeping up-to-pace with things."
  },
  {
    "start": 1539.1,
    "end": 1543.9,
    "text": "Yeah, yeah Steve that's a good word at the end."
  },
  {
    "start": 1545.72,
    "end": 1546.7,
    "text": "Thank You very much."
  },
  {
    "start": 1548.2,
    "end": 1554.24,
    "text": "Take the opportunity now here and do, to work with a real recording of our podcast interview."
  },
  {
    "start": 1554.36,
    "end": 1562.88,
    "text": "Here I thank you so much for this insights from our community And i really looking forward seeing you at the houstaf."
  },
  {
    "start": 1562.92,
    "end": 1569.7,
    "text": "twenty-twenty six Maybe maybe time before two but latest on there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1571.84,
    "end": 1573.02,
    "text": "Thank you for having me along today."
  },
  {
    "start": 1573.06,
    "end": 1574.42,
    "text": "it's been very good chatting with you."
  },
  {
    "start": 1576.04,
    "end": 1585.72,
    "text": "Yeah, we didn't get to chat properly I guess back in October but yes well hopefully this year if we're both there everything will work smoothly."
  },
  {
    "start": 1586.26,
    "end": 1589.86,
    "text": "Yes thank you have a good time bye!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1590.98,
    "end": 1591.88,
    "text": "Goodbye."
  }
]