[
  {
    "start": 1.04,
    "end": 6.8,
    "text": "Welcome to Software Testing Unleashed, the podcast for testers, developers and software"
  },
  {
    "start": 6.9,
    "end": 9.52,
    "text": "makers who live quality as an attitude."
  },
  {
    "start": 10.42,
    "end": 16.62,
    "text": "Get fresh ideas and sharp insights to grow your mindset, to learn new methods and to"
  },
  {
    "start": 16.72,
    "end": 19.28,
    "text": "drive real change in how we build software."
  },
  {
    "start": 20.0,
    "end": 23.0,
    "text": "software and better teams for a better world."
  },
  {
    "start": 32.43,
    "end": 36.3,
    "text": "Hi, I'm Richie, software quality coach, keynote speaker and author."
  },
  {
    "start": 36.96,
    "end": 39.04,
    "text": "My guest today is Daniel Knott."
  },
  {
    "start": 39.9,
    "end": 44.96,
    "text": "Daniel has nearly 20 years of experience in IT from hands-on software testing for web,"
  },
  {
    "start": 45.28,
    "end": 48.88,
    "text": "desktop and mobile to leading teams as head of engineering."
  },
  {
    "start": 50.04,
    "end": 53.32,
    "text": "He's the author of books, for example, about mobile app testing."
  },
  {
    "start": 53.9,
    "end": 59.38,
    "text": "He also runs a popular blog, speaks at international conferences, and his YouTube channel, you"
  },
  {
    "start": 59.77,
    "end": 64.239,
    "text": "don't want to miss out on it, it's about software testing, has a huge content area"
  },
  {
    "start": 64.739,
    "end": 67.64,
    "text": "and about 150,000 subscribers now."
  },
  {
    "start": 68.69,
    "end": 73.12,
    "text": "In this episode, we talked about the pains and types of software testing."
  },
  {
    "start": 74.72,
    "end": 78.62,
    "text": "Why are testers still struggling to sell their value to their craft?"
  },
  {
    "start": 78.99,
    "end": 82.52,
    "text": "Why developers and managers think they can cut quality first?"
  },
  {
    "start": 84.32,
    "end": 89.92,
    "text": "What happens when we trust AI and low-code tools to generate apps without real architecture"
  },
  {
    "start": 90.12,
    "end": 90.66,
    "text": "behind them?"
  },
  {
    "start": 91.92,
    "end": 98.12,
    "text": "And could prompt reviews become the new shift-left testing practice for the AI-driven future?"
  },
  {
    "start": 98.53,
    "end": 99.7,
    "text": "We will explore that."
  },
  {
    "start": 100.8,
    "end": 106.82,
    "text": "We talked about the risks of ignoring non-functional requirements, the need of communicating testing"
  },
  {
    "start": 106.82,
    "end": 111.96,
    "text": "in business terms and why domain knowledge might matter more than deep technical skills"
  },
  {
    "start": 112.32,
    "end": 113.08,
    "text": "in the years ahead."
  },
  {
    "start": 114.36,
    "end": 119.52,
    "text": "Daniel also shared his take on new AI-driven tools and why testers should try them out"
  },
  {
    "start": 119.82,
    "end": 121.44,
    "text": "rather than trust the marketing."
  },
  {
    "start": 122.24,
    "end": 123.94,
    "text": "And now, enjoy the episode."
  },
  {
    "start": 125.96,
    "end": 127.8,
    "text": "Hi Daniel, great to have you on the show."
  },
  {
    "start": 128.38,
    "end": 130.119,
    "text": "Hi Richie, thanks for having me today."
  },
  {
    "start": 130.119,
    "end": 135.38,
    "text": "It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, it's a great pleasure for me that you are here in the show"
  },
  {
    "start": 135.72,
    "end": 141.52,
    "text": "because you're a very well-known guy of the software testing community and you have a lot"
  },
  {
    "start": 141.58,
    "end": 146.12,
    "text": "of insights in the community, a big YouTube channel and now you're here in the podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 146.26,
    "end": 153.16,
    "text": "So it's great to have you here and also a little bit unusual for me because we both speak German"
  },
  {
    "start": 153.48,
    "end": 160.1,
    "text": "as another language and now we're talking English. Yeah, I totally understand. I had"
  },
  {
    "start": 160.1,
    "end": 164.44,
    "text": "these situations as well. But you know, since the software testing community is"
  },
  {
    "start": 165.819,
    "end": 169.78,
    "text": "so widespread across the globe, it's perfect to share everything in English."
  },
  {
    "start": 169.88,
    "end": 173.52,
    "text": "That's also my main reason why I'm doing my YouTube channel, also all"
  },
  {
    "start": 173.54,
    "end": 177.5,
    "text": "my content contribution in English, because I want to reach more people. I"
  },
  {
    "start": 177.5,
    "end": 180.46,
    "text": "mean, there's a great testing community in the German-speaking market"
  },
  {
    "start": 180.68,
    "end": 184.64,
    "text": "though, but yeah, it's limited, you know, the world is not enough."
  },
  {
    "start": 186.34,
    "end": 187.66,
    "text": "That's true, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 188.28,
    "end": 195.46,
    "text": "So when you are so deep in the community and you know a lot of guys meeting a lot of people"
  },
  {
    "start": 195.6,
    "end": 201.5,
    "text": "at conferences and talk to them, so I think it would be great if we look at two topics"
  },
  {
    "start": 201.54,
    "end": 209.18,
    "text": "and the first one is what do you think, what was the greatest pain up now for testers and"
  },
  {
    "start": 209.24,
    "end": 212.28,
    "text": "quality engineers and all the stuff doing dealing with quality?"
  },
  {
    "start": 213.28,
    "end": 214.2,
    "text": "That's a good question."
  },
  {
    "start": 214.3,
    "end": 218.6,
    "text": "I mean, I'm in the industries for, I don't know, 16, 17, 18 years now."
  },
  {
    "start": 220.39,
    "end": 223.34,
    "text": "And I mean, now AI is everywhere, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 223.5,
    "end": 227.22,
    "text": "But I don't see AI as the, I mean, it's a trending topic for sure."
  },
  {
    "start": 227.22,
    "end": 229.82,
    "text": "And it's also a pressing topic for everyone in the tech world right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 230.4,
    "end": 234.62,
    "text": "But looking back the, like, let's say 20, 17, 18 years in, in the tech world,"
  },
  {
    "start": 234.68,
    "end": 236.32,
    "text": "and especially in testing, it's,"
  },
  {
    "start": 237.0,
    "end": 241.3,
    "text": "it's usually the acceptance of software testing that we have to struggle and"
  },
  {
    "start": 241.33,
    "end": 243.92,
    "text": "deal with, you know, I mean, we have seen the hypes like, Hey,"
  },
  {
    "start": 244.14,
    "end": 251.68,
    "text": "when was it like 2010 or something or 11 when we had the hype of Selenium and other like testing frameworks"
  },
  {
    "start": 252.38,
    "end": 259.18,
    "text": "Becoming like a hip a hip topic a trending topic back then they are they all said, okay, let's automate all the things"
  },
  {
    "start": 259.26,
    "end": 263.02,
    "text": "Let's automate all the testing. We don't need testers and now with AI"
  },
  {
    "start": 263.26,
    "end": 267.8,
    "text": "it's it's a similar way that we are going and what I have learned over the past years is that"
  },
  {
    "start": 268.3,
    "end": 274.8,
    "text": "We are really good in communicating problems and issues that we are seeing in our products that we're testing"
  },
  {
    "start": 275.72,
    "end": 277.7,
    "text": "however, we are not so good in"
  },
  {
    "start": 278.9,
    "end": 286.8,
    "text": "Communicating and say like to be like in sales advocate basically in in our like in our craft like what testing is really"
  },
  {
    "start": 288.02,
    "end": 293.34,
    "text": "It's really doing and what quality measures are really there for for businesses to help"
  },
  {
    "start": 293.46,
    "end": 298.68,
    "text": "them grow and to bring out more products or better products, so to say."
  },
  {
    "start": 298.78,
    "end": 305.18,
    "text": "So really talking about our craft and also dealing with the business side effects of that topic."
  },
  {
    "start": 305.46,
    "end": 310.7,
    "text": "Because as we have seen now, also if you open social media, there's like layoff here, layoff there."
  },
  {
    "start": 310.82,
    "end": 315.44,
    "text": "The people, really great people, have their open to work badge on social media networks."
  },
  {
    "start": 315.63,
    "end": 319.06,
    "text": "And it's always like for me a shocking point. Why is this"
  },
  {
    "start": 319.74,
    "end": 324.0,
    "text": "person now looking for a job, but he's such a great person or she."
  },
  {
    "start": 325.11,
    "end": 329.24,
    "text": "And, and that, that gives me the exactly again, that feeling that we don't do"
  },
  {
    "start": 329.27,
    "end": 332.16,
    "text": "like too much in terms of advertising our craft."
  },
  {
    "start": 332.56,
    "end": 332.8,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 332.98,
    "end": 333.06,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 333.4,
    "end": 338.82,
    "text": "I think another problem now is, is, uh, also when, when the economy is not"
  },
  {
    "start": 339.1,
    "end": 344.899,
    "text": "really growing and it's more starving or go decreasing, uh, uh, the companies"
  },
  {
    "start": 344.9,
    "end": 350.46,
    "text": "tend to it and managers that they cut off the quality and testing stuff"
  },
  {
    "start": 350.66,
    "end": 357.58,
    "text": "because developer can create the code and UX can draw their forms and so on."
  },
  {
    "start": 358.12,
    "end": 362.74,
    "text": "But the testers, yeah, we can get rid of them because we have to build"
  },
  {
    "start": 362.82,
    "end": 365.74,
    "text": "our product anyway and testing is, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 366.0,
    "end": 368.66,
    "text": "Yeah, it's an easy way out, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 368.76,
    "end": 372.2,
    "text": "I mean, of course developers, they have to test their code, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 372.2,
    "end": 381.58,
    "text": "But I also have seen companies when I was like in a consultancy site that like a lot of companies put a lot of stuff on the shoulders of developers."
  },
  {
    "start": 381.88,
    "end": 395.06,
    "text": "Like not only like to do the coding part, like to do the testing part, which is for me given that they have to do it, but also, I don't know, maintaining pipelines, running the product on production and all this kind of stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 395.08,
    "end": 401.82,
    "text": "And I think if companies decide to cut on quality these days and replace testers,"
  },
  {
    "start": 402.06,
    "end": 407.92,
    "text": "also developers like junior developers, for example, with any AI that is available on the market,"
  },
  {
    "start": 408.88,
    "end": 415.28,
    "text": "it might work in the short term, but in the long run, I just talked to a person last Friday on a"
  },
  {
    "start": 415.34,
    "end": 422.08,
    "text": "conference that I think, I truly believe that we have like in five to 10 years, we see a huge"
  },
  {
    "start": 421.96,
    "end": 427.2,
    "text": "demand in people who are able to understand system architectures. It's not"
  },
  {
    "start": 427.26,
    "end": 430.8,
    "text": "not directly connected to testing but well testing plays a big role on that"
  },
  {
    "start": 430.86,
    "end": 436.22,
    "text": "side too but I think that we have like a huge demand where people really"
  },
  {
    "start": 436.4,
    "end": 440.62,
    "text": "understand what has been generated or what what systems are doing because it's"
  },
  {
    "start": 440.64,
    "end": 444.86,
    "text": "so easy right now to build your own app in a couple of minutes, your web product,"
  },
  {
    "start": 445.04,
    "end": 448.4,
    "text": "whatever you would like to publish. It's great for startups and also big"
  },
  {
    "start": 448.4,
    "end": 453.92,
    "text": "corporations going that way and which is not bad but going that that way too fast"
  },
  {
    "start": 454.36,
    "end": 458.92,
    "text": "can lead to really bad situations in the long run and looking forward to it."
  },
  {
    "start": 460.06,
    "end": 465.12,
    "text": "Let's see let's see what's happening maybe we see a huge demand on quality"
  },
  {
    "start": 465.26,
    "end": 470.48,
    "text": "advocates, testers, test architects whatever is available on the market but"
  },
  {
    "start": 471.34,
    "end": 475.84,
    "text": "it can be painful for companies so they should really think twice in getting rid"
  },
  {
    "start": 475.74,
    "end": 477.34,
    "text": "of the people right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 477.98,
    "end": 481.02,
    "text": "Yeah, I think you mentioned a very important thing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 481.22,
    "end": 485.08,
    "text": "because when we look at now at all the web coding stuff"
  },
  {
    "start": 485.23,
    "end": 488.46,
    "text": "and creating apps and websites and programs,"
  },
  {
    "start": 489.17,
    "end": 491.42,
    "text": "and there is no real architecture behind that."
  },
  {
    "start": 491.42,
    "end": 494.54,
    "text": "We already knew that from the non-functional testing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 494.55,
    "end": 497.0,
    "text": "if performance testing and security testing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 497.16,
    "end": 498.16,
    "text": "if we there have issues,"
  },
  {
    "start": 498.52,
    "end": 501.04,
    "text": "they are mainly addressed in the architecture,"
  },
  {
    "start": 501.26,
    "end": 504.2,
    "text": "in a bad architecture or a gap there and something that"
  },
  {
    "start": 504.3,
    "end": 506.88,
    "text": "And it's so expensive to change the architecture"
  },
  {
    "start": 507.2,
    "end": 509.6,
    "text": "and after it is released and so on."
  },
  {
    "start": 509.92,
    "end": 512.099,
    "text": "So I think there is a huge demand"
  },
  {
    "start": 512.159,
    "end": 514.84,
    "text": "on looking on that part two when we go now"
  },
  {
    "start": 514.96,
    "end": 516.539,
    "text": "to AI-driven development."
  },
  {
    "start": 517.82,
    "end": 520.34,
    "text": "Yeah, I mean, yeah, I totally agree 100%."
  },
  {
    "start": 520.419,
    "end": 523.52,
    "text": "I mean, right now, the tools are in a very, very early point"
  },
  {
    "start": 523.58,
    "end": 526.38,
    "text": "in development phase, like really not that mature."
  },
  {
    "start": 526.88,
    "end": 528.86,
    "text": "But who knows what's going to happen in five years."
  },
  {
    "start": 528.96,
    "end": 530.6,
    "text": "Maybe AI is so brilliant."
  },
  {
    "start": 530.64,
    "end": 532.3,
    "text": "They are really so good that they also"
  },
  {
    "start": 532.3,
    "end": 538.44,
    "text": "oversee architectural patterns and are able to suggest, I don't know, a rewrite of the"
  },
  {
    "start": 538.54,
    "end": 543.04,
    "text": "architecture or also the things that you just mentioned in regards of non-functional requirements,"
  },
  {
    "start": 543.26,
    "end": 547.28,
    "text": "right? So this is something. And also one interesting side effect on the, it triggered"
  },
  {
    "start": 547.28,
    "end": 551.86,
    "text": "me when you mentioned non-functional requirement. I lately talked to some product managers"
  },
  {
    "start": 552.98,
    "end": 557.26,
    "text": "and it was also like, \"Hey, when was the last time you guys were thinking about"
  },
  {
    "start": 558.06,
    "end": 563.44,
    "text": "non-functional requirements. And it was like, I don't know, actually, what do you mean? And"
  },
  {
    "start": 563.74,
    "end": 567.68,
    "text": "they really started something on their side, right? Because as you just said, I mean,"
  },
  {
    "start": 568.88,
    "end": 573.28,
    "text": "with accessibility coming around the corner, this is something that triggers people to"
  },
  {
    "start": 573.5,
    "end": 580.12,
    "text": "at least think of accessibility stuff. But not too many think about load and performance tests,"
  },
  {
    "start": 580.12,
    "end": 586.3,
    "text": "for example. Some have security testing on their plate, but luckily they get help from external"
  },
  {
    "start": 586.3,
    "end": 591.84,
    "text": "experts but it's a huge topic definitely to also not to forget about."
  },
  {
    "start": 592.66,
    "end": 600.34,
    "text": "Yeah, you mentioned that we have to learn to communicate more the value of testing and"
  },
  {
    "start": 602.04,
    "end": 609.28,
    "text": "not so much focusing on communicating the problems. So how can we do that? What are the"
  },
  {
    "start": 609.34,
    "end": 616.1,
    "text": "points we can bring to our management, to our leads to give them some points why"
  },
  {
    "start": 616.14,
    "end": 619.62,
    "text": "we are so important for business and for the product."
  },
  {
    "start": 621.02,
    "end": 626.26,
    "text": "Yeah, I mean it's not, there is no silver bullet to and how to communicate that topic."
  },
  {
    "start": 626.84,
    "end": 631.36,
    "text": "No, actually it's not. It really depends on the people that you have in front of you, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 631.46,
    "end": 635.2,
    "text": "I mean, and with people I mean like really the personality of that person."
  },
  {
    "start": 635.26,
    "end": 641.84,
    "text": "Like whenever I talk to people that have not too many insights into testing or they don't"
  },
  {
    "start": 642.12,
    "end": 647.48,
    "text": "understand the value of testing, I try to get some more information from their history,"
  },
  {
    "start": 647.68,
    "end": 652.04,
    "text": "from their back, like what have they done before, where they're coming from, maybe some,"
  },
  {
    "start": 652.52,
    "end": 658.1,
    "text": "I don't know, different technical angles or they were like complete coming from,"
  },
  {
    "start": 658.36,
    "end": 663.979,
    "text": "I don't know, from economics, marketing stuff. So what is their background basically? And then I try"
  },
  {
    "start": 663.98,
    "end": 668.56,
    "text": "to catch them where they are, right? If they're coming more from the"
  },
  {
    "start": 669.1,
    "end": 673.9,
    "text": "business angle, I try to communicate more in the business value. So in case you"
  },
  {
    "start": 674.0,
    "end": 678.08,
    "text": "develop a feature and there is a certain revenue connected to that feature"
  },
  {
    "start": 678.44,
    "end": 682.82,
    "text": "outcome, so I go with that. Okay look, our KPI is to, I don't know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 682.9,
    "end": 688.78,
    "text": "reach a 1 million in revenue in the next month and if we don't do like"
  },
  {
    "start": 688.86,
    "end": 692.26,
    "text": "proper testing and from a holistic point of view and we are not covering this and"
  },
  {
    "start": 692.22,
    "end": 696.02,
    "text": "that, it's likely that we're not going to reach that target KPI,"
  },
  {
    "start": 696.09,
    "end": 696.66,
    "text": "for example."
  },
  {
    "start": 697.08,
    "end": 699.8,
    "text": "So I really try to get them where they are."
  },
  {
    "start": 700.28,
    "end": 702.86,
    "text": "If you talk to tech people, then of course,"
  },
  {
    "start": 702.86,
    "end": 704.24,
    "text": "you need to dig into architecture."
  },
  {
    "start": 705.0,
    "end": 709.1,
    "text": "Maybe you have a system architecture map open,"
  },
  {
    "start": 709.1,
    "end": 712.24,
    "text": "see, OK, you know already this part's automated,"
  },
  {
    "start": 712.42,
    "end": 713.9,
    "text": "this is our weak spots."
  },
  {
    "start": 714.34,
    "end": 718.08,
    "text": "And then I try to sell activities in that direction."
  },
  {
    "start": 718.46,
    "end": 720.98,
    "text": "I just talked about non-functional requirements,"
  },
  {
    "start": 721.44,
    "end": 725.72,
    "text": "or if we do some more API testing, contract testing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 725.98,
    "end": 728.94,
    "text": "whatever is in the toolbox of that person."
  },
  {
    "start": 729.53,
    "end": 731.62,
    "text": "So that's always an important part."
  },
  {
    "start": 731.74,
    "end": 733.94,
    "text": "And with what I've seen in the past"
  },
  {
    "start": 734.1,
    "end": 737.48,
    "text": "is talking more business-related KPIs in terms of revenues"
  },
  {
    "start": 737.78,
    "end": 743.38,
    "text": "or also user satisfaction helps a lot in terms of getting"
  },
  {
    "start": 743.46,
    "end": 744.82,
    "text": "accepted by the things."
  },
  {
    "start": 745.5,
    "end": 748.0,
    "text": "And it's not working out if you go there and say, OK,"
  },
  {
    "start": 748.82,
    "end": 750.54,
    "text": "we have 20% code coverage."
  },
  {
    "start": 750.64,
    "end": 752.88,
    "text": "We need to raise the bar to 80%."
  },
  {
    "start": 752.9,
    "end": 754.96,
    "text": "It's like, yeah, it's a number for them, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 755.36,
    "end": 757.12,
    "text": "What does it mean actually code coverage?"
  },
  {
    "start": 757.64,
    "end": 758.7,
    "text": "Sounds too complicated."
  },
  {
    "start": 759.72,
    "end": 761.92,
    "text": "And that's my approach basically."
  },
  {
    "start": 762.76,
    "end": 763.26,
    "text": "- Yeah, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 763.8,
    "end": 766.28,
    "text": "Yeah, I think I like the idea."
  },
  {
    "start": 766.4,
    "end": 769.22,
    "text": "What comes to my mind is that the gap"
  },
  {
    "start": 769.38,
    "end": 774.319,
    "text": "from our real daily work to this very high level KPIs"
  },
  {
    "start": 774.98,
    "end": 776.1,
    "text": "like user satisfaction."
  },
  {
    "start": 776.12,
    "end": 778.54,
    "text": "And so there's a huge, huge gap."
  },
  {
    "start": 778.64,
    "end": 781.18,
    "text": "And I see the manager in front of me and asking,"
  },
  {
    "start": 781.32,
    "end": 785.8,
    "text": "what are you doing to get into this KPI?"
  },
  {
    "start": 786.08,
    "end": 787.18,
    "text": "And what are the steps there?"
  },
  {
    "start": 787.3,
    "end": 789.96,
    "text": "So I think, how can we overcome this gap?"
  },
  {
    "start": 790.28,
    "end": 791.4,
    "text": "How can we address this?"
  },
  {
    "start": 792.5,
    "end": 793.46,
    "text": "That's a tough one."
  },
  {
    "start": 793.84,
    "end": 795.04,
    "text": "How can we overcome that gap?"
  },
  {
    "start": 796.84,
    "end": 798.36,
    "text": "No real answer to that one right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 798.7,
    "end": 801.68,
    "text": "No, it's really-- it's so many angles"
  },
  {
    "start": 801.72,
    "end": 805.38,
    "text": "that you have to cover from what's the business that you"
  },
  {
    "start": 805.54,
    "end": 806.54,
    "text": "are working in."
  },
  {
    "start": 807.04,
    "end": 811.86,
    "text": "What are the competitors doing in terms of business value"
  },
  {
    "start": 811.98,
    "end": 814.58,
    "text": "and adding value to products?"
  },
  {
    "start": 814.68,
    "end": 815.64,
    "text": "Or what are they doing?"
  },
  {
    "start": 816.3,
    "end": 819.04,
    "text": "Also, what are the customers requesting"
  },
  {
    "start": 819.16,
    "end": 820.52,
    "text": "in terms of customer feedback?"
  },
  {
    "start": 821.14,
    "end": 823.64,
    "text": "So there's so many data points that you"
  },
  {
    "start": 823.66,
    "end": 825.16,
    "text": "have to basically connect in order"
  },
  {
    "start": 825.32,
    "end": 827.76,
    "text": "to make the right next steps."
  },
  {
    "start": 829.4,
    "end": 832.32,
    "text": "Yeah, OK, maybe that's also a question for our audience."
  },
  {
    "start": 832.36,
    "end": 834.84,
    "text": "And they can comment what they think about the topic."
  },
  {
    "start": 835.2,
    "end": 836.36,
    "text": "Yeah, definitely, for sure."
  },
  {
    "start": 836.86,
    "end": 840.78,
    "text": "But really, I think there is no right way on that side, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 840.82,
    "end": 842.22,
    "text": "There are so many-- because we're"
  },
  {
    "start": 842.22,
    "end": 843.84,
    "text": "working in so many different industries"
  },
  {
    "start": 843.9,
    "end": 847.38,
    "text": "and so many different situations right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 847.47,
    "end": 848.62,
    "text": "I mean, I talked also to people."
  },
  {
    "start": 848.72,
    "end": 851.72,
    "text": "They don't have any issues with AI coming around the corner"
  },
  {
    "start": 851.8,
    "end": 854.56,
    "text": "right now, because this is such a sustained business."
  },
  {
    "start": 854.78,
    "end": 855.72,
    "text": "They're not affected to that."
  },
  {
    "start": 855.86,
    "end": 858.58,
    "text": "Data is safe and not somewhere in the cloud."
  },
  {
    "start": 859.66,
    "end": 862.42,
    "text": "But yeah, still, it's interesting times right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 864.44,
    "end": 867.92,
    "text": "When I talk to more business-like testers,"
  },
  {
    "start": 868.04,
    "end": 872.62,
    "text": "they often say to me, yeah, I like my testing stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 872.62,
    "end": 873.9,
    "text": "I have my foundation level."
  },
  {
    "start": 874.06,
    "end": 876.46,
    "text": "I know my test methods, doing my test cases."
  },
  {
    "start": 876.88,
    "end": 879.18,
    "text": "But all the technical stuff is nothing for me."
  },
  {
    "start": 879.34,
    "end": 880.82,
    "text": "So I don't want to learn it."
  },
  {
    "start": 881.09,
    "end": 887.68,
    "text": "Do you think this is a mindset or an attitude that"
  },
  {
    "start": 887.84,
    "end": 889.24,
    "text": "can survive in the future?"
  },
  {
    "start": 889.4,
    "end": 892.06,
    "text": "Can we just rely on this manual business tester?"
  },
  {
    "start": 892.4,
    "end": 895.92,
    "text": "But do we have to change this role and to get more open"
  },
  {
    "start": 896.04,
    "end": 898.18,
    "text": "when you look at all the AI stuff which is coming?"
  },
  {
    "start": 898.18,
    "end": 899.58,
    "text": "And so what do you think?"
  },
  {
    "start": 902.28,
    "end": 904.34,
    "text": "- It's an interesting point in time, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 904.42,
    "end": 907.32,
    "text": "Because I mean, years ago I would have said like,"
  },
  {
    "start": 907.48,
    "end": 908.64,
    "text": "okay, they need to get technical."
  },
  {
    "start": 909.34,
    "end": 911.64,
    "text": "They need to learn at least one programming language,"
  },
  {
    "start": 911.78,
    "end": 914.66,
    "text": "need to know into architecture patterns,"
  },
  {
    "start": 914.82,
    "end": 915.92,
    "text": "clean code and stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 916.32,
    "end": 918.8,
    "text": "Not saying that this is not important anymore, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 919.04,
    "end": 923.5,
    "text": "But right now, with all the AI tools coming around the corner,"
  },
  {
    "start": 923.62,
    "end": 926.8,
    "text": "and before we had this huge wave of no-code,"
  },
  {
    "start": 926.94,
    "end": 930.76,
    "text": "low-code applications where normal people could write test"
  },
  {
    "start": 930.88,
    "end": 934.68,
    "text": "automation, so to say, I would say with AI coming around,"
  },
  {
    "start": 934.76,
    "end": 937.82,
    "text": "and AI will not go away in the next years, decades."
  },
  {
    "start": 938.06,
    "end": 944.7,
    "text": "So I think it's not too bad to be not too technical,"
  },
  {
    "start": 944.86,
    "end": 946.9,
    "text": "I would say, because I would say it's"
  },
  {
    "start": 946.92,
    "end": 949.02,
    "text": "more important to be more like in the business"
  },
  {
    "start": 949.02,
    "end": 952.84,
    "text": "expert in the long run, especially with all the vibe"
  },
  {
    "start": 952.96,
    "end": 956.3,
    "text": "coders and stuff and tools that we have generating code"
  },
  {
    "start": 956.38,
    "end": 959.72,
    "text": "and generating features that we as testers or quality"
  },
  {
    "start": 959.94,
    "end": 963.96,
    "text": "advocates need to judge the outcome of that LLM"
  },
  {
    "start": 963.98,
    "end": 965.3,
    "text": "or that generated tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 965.66,
    "end": 968.72,
    "text": "So that's why it's important to learn more about the business"
  },
  {
    "start": 968.92,
    "end": 969.82,
    "text": "domain that you are in."
  },
  {
    "start": 970.2,
    "end": 970.98,
    "text": "That's really helpful."
  },
  {
    "start": 971.54,
    "end": 972.96,
    "text": "And then, of course, having--"
  },
  {
    "start": 972.96,
    "end": 975.46,
    "text": "or like to know the foundation in software testing."
  },
  {
    "start": 976.7,
    "end": 981.76,
    "text": "This is definitely a good thing, I would say."
  },
  {
    "start": 982.84,
    "end": 985.58,
    "text": "However, I mean, having a little bit,"
  },
  {
    "start": 985.78,
    "end": 988.3,
    "text": "like a little fundamental knowledge"
  },
  {
    "start": 988.46,
    "end": 992.84,
    "text": "about how a system works, like what's a response, what's"
  },
  {
    "start": 992.84,
    "end": 994.66,
    "text": "a request, like really bloody basic stuff,"
  },
  {
    "start": 994.66,
    "end": 996.68,
    "text": "like how a client-server communication works,"
  },
  {
    "start": 997.18,
    "end": 999.84,
    "text": "how modern tech stacks look like,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1000.32,
    "end": 1004.26,
    "text": "this is definitely helpful also to generate new testing ideas"
  },
  {
    "start": 1004.26,
    "end": 1008.32,
    "text": "and also asking the right questions in terms of where is,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1009.14,
    "end": 1012.76,
    "text": "if we stick to AI, where code has been generated,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1012.93,
    "end": 1017.78,
    "text": "in what area, and what areas are still human,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1017.9,
    "end": 1019.94,
    "text": "like human developers in the lead."
  },
  {
    "start": 1020.1,
    "end": 1022.9,
    "text": "So this also helps again to oversee"
  },
  {
    "start": 1022.9,
    "end": 1024.26,
    "text": "the whole feature development."
  },
  {
    "start": 1024.64,
    "end": 1028.26,
    "text": "- Yeah, and maybe even more to think about out of the box,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1028.74,
    "end": 1032.26,
    "text": "what can be good test methods or good test cases"
  },
  {
    "start": 1032.26,
    "end": 1036.6,
    "text": "for our product and not just thinking in our business box,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1037.1,
    "end": 1039.1,
    "text": "but looking outside and on the edge cases,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1039.23,
    "end": 1041.74,
    "text": "which is, I think, more important in the future"
  },
  {
    "start": 1041.86,
    "end": 1046.1,
    "text": "than it's up now, because the AI will generate the code"
  },
  {
    "start": 1046.12,
    "end": 1048.78,
    "text": "and it's maybe it's done, but to look at the edges"
  },
  {
    "start": 1048.96,
    "end": 1051.88,
    "text": "and outside of that, it would be very interesting, I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 1052.66,
    "end": 1055.02,
    "text": "- Not only that, that is definitely a good point"
  },
  {
    "start": 1055.1,
    "end": 1058.02,
    "text": "to start on, but also, I think this is also something"
  },
  {
    "start": 1058.1,
    "end": 1060.78,
    "text": "that I haven't seen too many people talking about"
  },
  {
    "start": 1060.78,
    "end": 1066.5,
    "text": "is to actually do testing or to do quality checks"
  },
  {
    "start": 1066.7,
    "end": 1069.32,
    "text": "on the prompts that have been used in order"
  },
  {
    "start": 1069.4,
    "end": 1070.44,
    "text": "to generate that code."
  },
  {
    "start": 1071.52,
    "end": 1075.34,
    "text": "So this is also an idea that is just in my head for weeks now,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1075.4,
    "end": 1076.56,
    "text": "but I haven't had the time yet."
  },
  {
    "start": 1076.94,
    "end": 1078.84,
    "text": "So it's the first time I'm talking about it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1078.84,
    "end": 1080.66,
    "text": "But so maybe if you heard someone"
  },
  {
    "start": 1080.74,
    "end": 1082.06,
    "text": "talking in the community, I would"
  },
  {
    "start": 1082.2,
    "end": 1085.0,
    "text": "love to chat and exchange on that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1085.06,
    "end": 1090.62,
    "text": "Because I think that's also a big entry point"
  },
  {
    "start": 1090.68,
    "end": 1092.0,
    "text": "of potential issues."
  },
  {
    "start": 1092.64,
    "end": 1097.3,
    "text": "If you have developer and she is doing prompting with an AI,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1098.12,
    "end": 1101.64,
    "text": "we all know that context matters when we use AI and prompting"
  },
  {
    "start": 1101.72,
    "end": 1103.4,
    "text": "and how the prompt was written."
  },
  {
    "start": 1103.6,
    "end": 1106.24,
    "text": "And sometimes you just change a little tiny bit"
  },
  {
    "start": 1106.24,
    "end": 1109.92,
    "text": "of the sentence and the outcome or the output of the prompt"
  },
  {
    "start": 1110.3,
    "end": 1111.58,
    "text": "is completely different."
  },
  {
    "start": 1112.28,
    "end": 1118.86,
    "text": "So I think that doing these prompt reviews is also something that can become huge in"
  },
  {
    "start": 1118.88,
    "end": 1119.9,
    "text": "the future, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1120.12,
    "end": 1123.9,
    "text": "Especially still people writing the prompts on their own."
  },
  {
    "start": 1123.9,
    "end": 1128.9,
    "text": "I mean, if they're using LLM or something else to generate the prompt, something different."
  },
  {
    "start": 1129.92,
    "end": 1135.02,
    "text": "But this is, for me, a new way of shift left testing, you know, to do like review the prompting"
  },
  {
    "start": 1135.08,
    "end": 1136.34,
    "text": "that go into the system."
  },
  {
    "start": 1137.14,
    "end": 1137.28,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1137.5,
    "end": 1137.6,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1138.1,
    "end": 1138.52,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1138.74,
    "end": 1138.86,
    "text": "OK."
  },
  {
    "start": 1141.12,
    "end": 1143.36,
    "text": "need in the future as a tester too."
  },
  {
    "start": 1144.56,
    "end": 1147.0,
    "text": "And another part is what I wanted"
  },
  {
    "start": 1147.12,
    "end": 1149.96,
    "text": "to have your opinion of is about the tooling."
  },
  {
    "start": 1150.78,
    "end": 1153.18,
    "text": "You're testing a lot of tools on your channel too."
  },
  {
    "start": 1153.8,
    "end": 1159.0,
    "text": "And in the last two years, a lot of new and old test automation"
  },
  {
    "start": 1159.18,
    "end": 1163.26,
    "text": "tools write an AI as an appendix to their name."
  },
  {
    "start": 1163.64,
    "end": 1164.86,
    "text": "And now they have AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 1165.42,
    "end": 1170.2,
    "text": "But do you have any examples what they really"
  },
  {
    "start": 1170.2,
    "end": 1175.38,
    "text": "benefit now from AI and what is really, really working for daily business now"
  },
  {
    "start": 1175.56,
    "end": 1178.08,
    "text": "then beside the marketing stuff?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1180.2,
    "end": 1184.5,
    "text": "I mean, I'm always saying that on my channel too, is like the tools,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1184.82,
    "end": 1188.98,
    "text": "when I'm even before AI hype, the tools that we use for testing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1189.22,
    "end": 1192.26,
    "text": "they should be easy, you know, it should be easy to install."
  },
  {
    "start": 1192.26,
    "end": 1198.9,
    "text": "It should be user friendly because it's it's our extension to to our work."
  },
  {
    "start": 1198.92,
    "end": 1201.86,
    "text": "So we need to speed up with our testing time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1202.26,
    "end": 1203.64,
    "text": "So that's why I don't want a tool"
  },
  {
    "start": 1203.72,
    "end": 1205.56,
    "text": "that I need to configure for days and weeks"
  },
  {
    "start": 1205.64,
    "end": 1208.5,
    "text": "and to do some dependency checks and downloading"
  },
  {
    "start": 1208.72,
    "end": 1211.48,
    "text": "gigabytes of libraries just to get it up and running."
  },
  {
    "start": 1211.8,
    "end": 1214.14,
    "text": "So this is something that I don't want to see."
  },
  {
    "start": 1214.18,
    "end": 1215.86,
    "text": "And this is something that vendors should really"
  },
  {
    "start": 1216.04,
    "end": 1216.58,
    "text": "keep in mind."
  },
  {
    "start": 1217.9,
    "end": 1220.2,
    "text": "And from an AI perspective, I have"
  },
  {
    "start": 1220.32,
    "end": 1223.76,
    "text": "seen a lot of tools doing really great stuff from test case"
  },
  {
    "start": 1223.88,
    "end": 1226.14,
    "text": "generation into your ticketing system."
  },
  {
    "start": 1226.64,
    "end": 1228.32,
    "text": "You install the plugin, for example,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1228.56,
    "end": 1230.86,
    "text": "And then they scan your acceptance, not the acceptance"
  },
  {
    "start": 1230.88,
    "end": 1234.2,
    "text": "criteria, but the requirements, the designs."
  },
  {
    "start": 1234.49,
    "end": 1237.1,
    "text": "And based on that, they derive basically the test cases,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1237.17,
    "end": 1238.12,
    "text": "which is really cool."
  },
  {
    "start": 1239.46,
    "end": 1243.18,
    "text": "I also have seen tools that are completely, let's say,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1243.86,
    "end": 1244.82,
    "text": "they're hidden."
  },
  {
    "start": 1245.34,
    "end": 1247.64,
    "text": "You'll install it with a library."
  },
  {
    "start": 1248.4,
    "end": 1250.48,
    "text": "And they do some magic in the background."
  },
  {
    "start": 1250.55,
    "end": 1253.48,
    "text": "So they basically track the customer,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1253.7,
    "end": 1256.18,
    "text": "track in terms of they see what customers are clicking,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1256.55,
    "end": 1258.34,
    "text": "like similar like analytics tracking."
  },
  {
    "start": 1258.48,
    "end": 1262.96,
    "text": "And then based on that data, they completely tell you,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1263.16,
    "end": 1266.54,
    "text": "OK, that's the user journey through your product."
  },
  {
    "start": 1266.92,
    "end": 1270.42,
    "text": "And here are these cases that you should automate."
  },
  {
    "start": 1270.68,
    "end": 1274.16,
    "text": "And this is something that I would like to see more often."
  },
  {
    "start": 1274.52,
    "end": 1277.62,
    "text": "And I mean, that's really cool."
  },
  {
    "start": 1277.72,
    "end": 1281.96,
    "text": "Or you have, again, similar to all the white coding tools"
  },
  {
    "start": 1282.04,
    "end": 1284.16,
    "text": "that we have in the market, similar for testing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1284.18,
    "end": 1285.32,
    "text": "You have a prompt interface."
  },
  {
    "start": 1285.52,
    "end": 1286.5,
    "text": "You prompt something."
  },
  {
    "start": 1287.12,
    "end": 1290.62,
    "text": "And then you get your test automation up and running,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1290.78,
    "end": 1292.16,
    "text": "or your configurations up and running."
  },
  {
    "start": 1292.28,
    "end": 1293.9,
    "text": "There are a lot of tools on the market"
  },
  {
    "start": 1294.02,
    "end": 1296.02,
    "text": "available for that kind of stuff already."
  },
  {
    "start": 1296.7,
    "end": 1298.72,
    "text": "So this is something that I would love to see."
  },
  {
    "start": 1299.03,
    "end": 1302.38,
    "text": "And then in the end, also, it's up to the tester"
  },
  {
    "start": 1303.26,
    "end": 1306.22,
    "text": "to decide and to pick the tool that fits best"
  },
  {
    "start": 1306.7,
    "end": 1308.7,
    "text": "into the tech stack of that company,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1309.07,
    "end": 1310.2,
    "text": "of the current situation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1310.62,
    "end": 1312.98,
    "text": "And what I also always tell on my journal"
  },
  {
    "start": 1313.1,
    "end": 1316.18,
    "text": "is to try out as many tools as you can."
  },
  {
    "start": 1316.76,
    "end": 1320.56,
    "text": "if you have time and you can, or do it in your spare time,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1320.64,
    "end": 1322.14,
    "text": "as a hobby, like I do with my channels,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1322.32,
    "end": 1323.38,
    "text": "I love to do that, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1323.42,
    "end": 1326.12,
    "text": "I mean, I get trial versions, I install them,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1326.12,
    "end": 1327.82,
    "text": "I try them out, I just would like to see"
  },
  {
    "start": 1328.12,
    "end": 1329.5,
    "text": "what's working, what's not working,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1330.1,
    "end": 1331.96,
    "text": "just to see where our community"
  },
  {
    "start": 1332.1,
    "end": 1333.36,
    "text": "or the industry is heading to."
  },
  {
    "start": 1333.48,
    "end": 1336.38,
    "text": "And with that, you get a feeling of"
  },
  {
    "start": 1336.76,
    "end": 1340.42,
    "text": "what really is in for you and what really matters to you"
  },
  {
    "start": 1340.66,
    "end": 1341.72,
    "text": "in your current situation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1342.08,
    "end": 1344.8,
    "text": "As I said, I cannot say, okay, use that tool"
  },
  {
    "start": 1344.8,
    "end": 1346.94,
    "text": "Like we had, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1347.02,
    "end": 1348.12,
    "text": "everyone would like to use Selenium."
  },
  {
    "start": 1348.34,
    "end": 1350.06,
    "text": "Yeah, we use Selenium, let's go for it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1350.74,
    "end": 1352.3,
    "text": "And now on the mobile space,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1352.37,
    "end": 1354.2,
    "text": "back then it was like Appium, let's use Appium."
  },
  {
    "start": 1354.28,
    "end": 1356.62,
    "text": "There's other tools on the market that you could use,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1357.04,
    "end": 1360.06,
    "text": "but they can be the right tool for you, but not for me."
  },
  {
    "start": 1360.24,
    "end": 1363.18,
    "text": "So that's why it's always important to do your homework."
  },
  {
    "start": 1364.2,
    "end": 1366.6,
    "text": "- I think it's so important to try out these tools"
  },
  {
    "start": 1366.7,
    "end": 1369.22,
    "text": "because the marketing and white papers,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1369.34,
    "end": 1370.74,
    "text": "they are telling a lot of stuff,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1371.1,
    "end": 1372.64,
    "text": "what could be in there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1373.28,
    "end": 1374.54,
    "text": "- Yeah, I mean, I would do the same."
  },
  {
    "start": 1374.6,
    "end": 1376.28,
    "text": "if I would be on the other side, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1376.36,
    "end": 1376.62,
    "text": "- Yeah, sure."
  },
  {
    "start": 1377.25,
    "end": 1380.16,
    "text": "- You have to play the game with like the others, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1380.24,
    "end": 1383.52,
    "text": "And I mean, Zio is now going down the, you know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1384.1,
    "end": 1387.6,
    "text": "going, it's not the best sustainable business right now"
  },
  {
    "start": 1387.7,
    "end": 1391.1,
    "text": "with all the GPTs and clothes and stuff like that"
  },
  {
    "start": 1391.12,
    "end": 1394.72,
    "text": "because less people are using really like search engines"
  },
  {
    "start": 1394.76,
    "end": 1396.92,
    "text": "anymore, they go to those interfaces."
  },
  {
    "start": 1397.56,
    "end": 1398.64,
    "text": "So this is definitely something."
  },
  {
    "start": 1398.71,
    "end": 1401.54,
    "text": "And then of course you need to use other channels"
  },
  {
    "start": 1401.7,
    "end": 1403.42,
    "text": "as a tool vendor right now, like social media."
  },
  {
    "start": 1403.52,
    "end": 1404.64,
    "text": "So definitely a huge topic."
  },
  {
    "start": 1405.26,
    "end": 1407.22,
    "text": "Conferences still, where you can really"
  },
  {
    "start": 1407.46,
    "end": 1412.12,
    "text": "present to the best possible audience your tools."
  },
  {
    "start": 1413.02,
    "end": 1415.24,
    "text": "And so yeah, they have to be creative too."
  },
  {
    "start": 1415.899,
    "end": 1420.42,
    "text": "I had a very nice situation this year in April."
  },
  {
    "start": 1420.6,
    "end": 1422.3,
    "text": "I was at the Swiss Testing Day, and they"
  },
  {
    "start": 1422.44,
    "end": 1425.38,
    "text": "had a test automation lab where the tool vendors had prepared"
  },
  {
    "start": 1425.5,
    "end": 1426.78,
    "text": "some workstations."
  },
  {
    "start": 1426.94,
    "end": 1429.72,
    "text": "And you can try out the tools and sit there and use it,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1430.36,
    "end": 1431.76,
    "text": "not at the booth in the exhibition area,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1431.78,
    "end": 1433.66,
    "text": "but in our own test automation lab."
  },
  {
    "start": 1433.7,
    "end": 1436.48,
    "text": "It was very interesting format for something like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1436.76,
    "end": 1438.28,
    "text": "Yeah, I like that idea."
  },
  {
    "start": 1438.3,
    "end": 1441.74,
    "text": "I've never seen it before because going to a booth"
  },
  {
    "start": 1441.8,
    "end": 1443.82,
    "text": "is always like you have to jump that hurdle."
  },
  {
    "start": 1443.92,
    "end": 1446.2,
    "text": "Like, OK, I just want to read it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1446.26,
    "end": 1449.24,
    "text": "And then there's some salesperson grabbing you in."
  },
  {
    "start": 1450.14,
    "end": 1453.3,
    "text": "There are a lot of great vendors out there doing a really cool"
  },
  {
    "start": 1453.4,
    "end": 1454.14,
    "text": "job on that side."
  },
  {
    "start": 1454.62,
    "end": 1456.98,
    "text": "But trying it out firsthand is even better."
  },
  {
    "start": 1457.84,
    "end": 1458.3,
    "text": "Yeah, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1459.18,
    "end": 1463.28,
    "text": "Daniel, when you think of the future now,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1463.82,
    "end": 1468.74,
    "text": "and what is your one tip to give for a tester?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1470.06,
    "end": 1472.34,
    "text": "What can I do now to prepare for this future?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1472.76,
    "end": 1473.66,
    "text": "What should I do?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1476.12,
    "end": 1478.9,
    "text": "- Yeah, I mean, read and get into AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 1479.36,
    "end": 1482.18,
    "text": "I mean, I think I cannot tell it even more."
  },
  {
    "start": 1483.17,
    "end": 1484.46,
    "text": "I cannot hear it anymore, actually."
  },
  {
    "start": 1484.96,
    "end": 1486.84,
    "text": "Like, get going there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1486.86,
    "end": 1491.32,
    "text": "I mean, I still remember when I started in mobile testing in 2010,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1492.3,
    "end": 1495.56,
    "text": "Appstore were just around the corner and every company jumped on that thing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1495.7,
    "end": 1499.08,
    "text": "like, \"Hey, we need to have a mobile app.\" And this was a huge,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1499.48,
    "end": 1503.52,
    "text": "let's say revolution in terms of industry technology-wise,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1504.28,
    "end": 1508.84,
    "text": "and still companies out there that don't have a mobile app yet or like a really"
  },
  {
    "start": 1508.94,
    "end": 1512.94,
    "text": "crappy one. So it took them like more than 15 years. But now AI,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1513.02,
    "end": 1514.94,
    "text": "as we have just seen in the last years,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1515.62,
    "end": 1518.94,
    "text": "that the speed is, I don't know, 10, 20 times faster"
  },
  {
    "start": 1518.94,
    "end": 1521.8,
    "text": "than the mobile revolution that we had 15 years ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 1522.3,
    "end": 1526.52,
    "text": "So that's why learning as much as you can about AI"
  },
  {
    "start": 1526.78,
    "end": 1530.96,
    "text": "is helpful, like prompting how LLMs are working,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1531.18,
    "end": 1533.8,
    "text": "also like internally, how they're doing this stuff"
  },
  {
    "start": 1533.9,
    "end": 1536.54,
    "text": "with all the vector databases and stuff"
  },
  {
    "start": 1536.68,
    "end": 1538.3,
    "text": "and the different principles."
  },
  {
    "start": 1538.98,
    "end": 1542.22,
    "text": "I mean, it's not really connected to testing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1542.58,
    "end": 1545.14,
    "text": "But it's definitely something that will help you"
  },
  {
    "start": 1545.5,
    "end": 1546.8,
    "text": "to shape your testing skills."
  },
  {
    "start": 1546.92,
    "end": 1549.12,
    "text": "So this is definitely the one thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1549.6,
    "end": 1551.7,
    "text": "And this is not something that-- it's not a tip."
  },
  {
    "start": 1551.76,
    "end": 1554.76,
    "text": "It's more for me, or more like a wish for the community."
  },
  {
    "start": 1555.9,
    "end": 1563.32,
    "text": "So we should not trust our capabilities and our knowledge"
  },
  {
    "start": 1563.44,
    "end": 1565.48,
    "text": "that we just gained over the past years."
  },
  {
    "start": 1566.2,
    "end": 1568.22,
    "text": "So don't listen to the people saying,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1568.32,
    "end": 1569.48,
    "text": "oh, we don't need any testing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1569.56,
    "end": 1570.98,
    "text": "Your skills are irrelevant."
  },
  {
    "start": 1571.26,
    "end": 1571.88,
    "text": "That's not true."
  },
  {
    "start": 1572.5,
    "end": 1579.32,
    "text": "the fundamental testing skills that we learned from the bottom up and since years now, since"
  },
  {
    "start": 1579.42,
    "end": 1584.5,
    "text": "10, 15, 20 more years and stuff, this is still valid and still helpful for AI as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1585.98,
    "end": 1587.9,
    "text": "So but it's definitely tough times at the moment."
  },
  {
    "start": 1588.76,
    "end": 1589.7,
    "text": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1590.2,
    "end": 1594.66,
    "text": "Okay, thank you very much for this insight and for the discussion about this topic."
  },
  {
    "start": 1596.52,
    "end": 1599.16,
    "text": "The beginning I talked about, we will talk about two topics."
  },
  {
    "start": 1599.26,
    "end": 1604.66,
    "text": "The first one was pains and the second one was was hypes, but I think we've emerged them"
  },
  {
    "start": 1604.86,
    "end": 1607.5,
    "text": "together and talked about the pains and the hypes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1609.24,
    "end": 1613.94,
    "text": "Yeah, so I want to mention here your YouTube channel, we will also link it in the in the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1613.97,
    "end": 1619.12,
    "text": "show notes so that everyone can move on from this channel also to your channel and to look"
  },
  {
    "start": 1619.16,
    "end": 1619.84,
    "text": "at your videos."
  },
  {
    "start": 1620.84,
    "end": 1625.22,
    "text": "And yeah, thank you very much that you were part of the show now and I'm sure that was"
  },
  {
    "start": 1625.18,
    "end": 1629.56,
    "text": "not the last time you were here because I think I now have a backlog with a lot"
  },
  {
    "start": 1629.62,
    "end": 1634.36,
    "text": "of topics I want to discuss with you. Yeah, perfect, let's move on. I mean if the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1634.5,
    "end": 1637.94,
    "text": "audience also would like to hear me more often here I'm more than happy to share."
  },
  {
    "start": 1638.76,
    "end": 1643.0,
    "text": "Yeah, that's great. That's part of this podcast. I like it so much. So, Daniel,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1643.18,
    "end": 1647.24,
    "text": "thank you very much. Have a great time and see you soon. Yeah, thanks for having me again."
  },
  {
    "start": 1647.94,
    "end": 1648.92,
    "text": "See you soon. Bye-bye."
  },
  {
    "start": 1679.48,
    "end": 1680.88,
    "text": "(orchestral music)"
  }
]