[
  {
    "start": 0.28,
    "end": 7.74,
    "text": "So hi everybody to this first episode of Testing Unleashed, the new podcast for software quality and software testing."
  },
  {
    "start": 8.7,
    "end": 14.32,
    "text": "My name is Richard Seidel, short Richie, and I'm a software tester since I can remember."
  },
  {
    "start": 14.64,
    "end": 16.64,
    "text": "I was a developer in former life."
  },
  {
    "start": 17.2,
    "end": 23.4,
    "text": "Developing software is still a nice hobby and I like scripting and so on, but on my way"
  },
  {
    "start": 23.52,
    "end": 29.98,
    "text": "I decided to go to more to testing and to quality assurance and test automation and this"
  },
  {
    "start": 29.98,
    "end": 38.08,
    "text": "is what I bring in companies, in organizations up to now as a coach, as a mentor for test managers and testers"
  },
  {
    "start": 38.66,
    "end": 45.78,
    "text": "where I lead them to a new way of thinking quality and to bring quality into the projects."
  },
  {
    "start": 46.94,
    "end": 57.18,
    "text": "Yeah and I will be your host for the next episodes where I usually interview some people from our quality branch of our community"
  },
  {
    "start": 57.78,
    "end": 65.28,
    "text": "who have to say something, who have good topics, new minds, new thoughts about how can we deal with software quality."
  },
  {
    "start": 65.54,
    "end": 69.86,
    "text": "And this podcast should also be a very broad one."
  },
  {
    "start": 70.3,
    "end": 79.0,
    "text": "So not just in the technical methods of quality assurance and testing, but also in soft skills and how do we deal with conflicts in our teams"
  },
  {
    "start": 79.28,
    "end": 85.14,
    "text": "and how do we use AI and so stuff and how do we design our CI/CD pipelines and so on."
  },
  {
    "start": 85.18,
    "end": 87.58,
    "text": "We will discuss everything according"
  },
  {
    "start": 87.58,
    "end": 91.86,
    "text": "to software engineering, but with the focus on quality."
  },
  {
    "start": 92.9,
    "end": 97.04,
    "text": "As you know, one subclaim of this core podcast"
  },
  {
    "start": 97.62,
    "end": 99.36,
    "text": "is quality as an attitude."
  },
  {
    "start": 101.0,
    "end": 106.14,
    "text": "This is one thing I think was really forced into the community"
  },
  {
    "start": 106.8,
    "end": 111.78,
    "text": "when we started the Agile stuff about 25 years now ago,"
  },
  {
    "start": 113.22,
    "end": 117.98,
    "text": "that we cannot just use test methods and this stuff,"
  },
  {
    "start": 118.14,
    "end": 121.72,
    "text": "but we have to think quality all over the software development"
  },
  {
    "start": 122.1,
    "end": 122.32,
    "text": "process."
  },
  {
    "start": 123.06,
    "end": 124.8,
    "text": "And why this podcast?"
  },
  {
    "start": 124.97,
    "end": 128.96,
    "text": "So I think times are getting tough for us"
  },
  {
    "start": 129.25,
    "end": 130.52,
    "text": "in the quality area."
  },
  {
    "start": 131.43,
    "end": 136.12,
    "text": "We have a huge impact now with the old AI stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 136.12,
    "end": 139.779,
    "text": "We still have to struggle sometimes"
  },
  {
    "start": 139.78,
    "end": 143.16,
    "text": "with DevOps and agile transformations."
  },
  {
    "start": 144.0,
    "end": 149.0,
    "text": "And software quality gets every day more important"
  },
  {
    "start": 149.32,
    "end": 153.22,
    "text": "because we have to deal with that in the production areas"
  },
  {
    "start": 153.58,
    "end": 155.78,
    "text": "and in our life and in our society."
  },
  {
    "start": 155.8,
    "end": 157.22,
    "text": "We need good software."
  },
  {
    "start": 158.14,
    "end": 161.52,
    "text": "And it's so crucial to have a good quality today."
  },
  {
    "start": 161.8,
    "end": 165.62,
    "text": "But also to think about how much quality is enough"
  },
  {
    "start": 165.9,
    "end": 167.32,
    "text": "for our software product."
  },
  {
    "start": 168.14,
    "end": 172.54,
    "text": "And this podcast wants to deliver something back to the community,"
  },
  {
    "start": 172.82,
    "end": 180.78,
    "text": "because I learned so much from a lot of good minds who mentored me all over my way of my career."
  },
  {
    "start": 180.96,
    "end": 186.72,
    "text": "And now I want to give back to the community, inspiration, some new thoughts, some new ideas."
  },
  {
    "start": 186.9,
    "end": 189.1,
    "text": "How can we deal with all this quality stuff?"
  },
  {
    "start": 189.24,
    "end": 191.14,
    "text": "So this podcast is for you."
  },
  {
    "start": 191.32,
    "end": 197.5,
    "text": "It's for you to learn, to get inspired, to try something new, to get a new perspective on some things."
  },
  {
    "start": 197.82,
    "end": 198.98,
    "text": "but also to participate."
  },
  {
    "start": 199.26,
    "end": 203.48,
    "text": "So please, if you have any feedback for this podcast,"
  },
  {
    "start": 203.68,
    "end": 206.84,
    "text": "for guests you want to hear in this podcast,"
  },
  {
    "start": 207.0,
    "end": 208.7,
    "text": "or topics you want to hear there,"
  },
  {
    "start": 208.86,
    "end": 213.24,
    "text": "or even if you on your own want to be guest in this podcast,"
  },
  {
    "start": 213.4,
    "end": 219.1,
    "text": "just contact me at podcast@testing-unleashed.fm."
  },
  {
    "start": 219.86,
    "end": 222.1,
    "text": "And then we will discuss, and I can"
  },
  {
    "start": 222.24,
    "end": 226.4,
    "text": "try if I can put it into the editorial calendar."
  },
  {
    "start": 226.94,
    "end": 232.06,
    "text": "So this podcast will be, if I've calculated correctly"
  },
  {
    "start": 232.3,
    "end": 234.26,
    "text": "and I've done my plan correctly, there"
  },
  {
    "start": 234.27,
    "end": 236.08,
    "text": "will be a new episode each week."
  },
  {
    "start": 237.04,
    "end": 238.32,
    "text": "Beginning with this first, we have"
  },
  {
    "start": 238.42,
    "end": 240.82,
    "text": "some more interesting topics."
  },
  {
    "start": 241.22,
    "end": 245.76,
    "text": "But then and there regularly, it should be a weekly podcast"
  },
  {
    "start": 246.52,
    "end": 250.02,
    "text": "here on this channel, on audio and on video on YouTube."
  },
  {
    "start": 250.64,
    "end": 254.14,
    "text": "So you can join each channel what you like."
  },
  {
    "start": 255.04,
    "end": 258.04,
    "text": "And if you want to get informed about all this stuff,"
  },
  {
    "start": 258.41,
    "end": 261.459,
    "text": "you find me on LinkedIn and can then follow me there"
  },
  {
    "start": 261.989,
    "end": 265.2,
    "text": "to see when there are new episodes or topics I want"
  },
  {
    "start": 265.22,
    "end": 266.94,
    "text": "to discuss with the community."
  },
  {
    "start": 267.98,
    "end": 271.74,
    "text": "So why do I think this podcast is so important now,"
  },
  {
    "start": 271.78,
    "end": 275.32,
    "text": "or giving new ideas into the community is so important?"
  },
  {
    "start": 275.42,
    "end": 279.58,
    "text": "I think there are different parts in our software"
  },
  {
    "start": 279.82,
    "end": 282.9,
    "text": "engineering process now we have to deal with."
  },
  {
    "start": 283.4,
    "end": 287.66,
    "text": "And the first one is about the role of a software tester"
  },
  {
    "start": 287.9,
    "end": 290.18,
    "text": "or a quality engineer sometimes today,"
  },
  {
    "start": 290.26,
    "end": 293.22,
    "text": "or how we call them, or a test automation engineer"
  },
  {
    "start": 293.38,
    "end": 294.3,
    "text": "and a test manager."
  },
  {
    "start": 294.36,
    "end": 296.86,
    "text": "I think all these roles developed a lot"
  },
  {
    "start": 297.02,
    "end": 298.84,
    "text": "in the last 20 years."
  },
  {
    "start": 299.72,
    "end": 304.179,
    "text": "And when I get my first computer, I think it was in 1989,"
  },
  {
    "start": 306.16,
    "end": 310.2,
    "text": "and I developed some programs with BASIC and this stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 311.42,
    "end": 315.3,
    "text": "And then going into the business, the next years,"
  },
  {
    "start": 315.82,
    "end": 318.82,
    "text": "their typical developer was also the tester."
  },
  {
    "start": 319.08,
    "end": 323.72,
    "text": "So even if it gets worse, the developer"
  },
  {
    "start": 323.86,
    "end": 326.26,
    "text": "with the poorest skills gets a tester"
  },
  {
    "start": 326.26,
    "end": 327.78,
    "text": "who has to test all the stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 328.7,
    "end": 331.76,
    "text": "There were no really test methods and strategies"
  },
  {
    "start": 331.9,
    "end": 337.82,
    "text": "how to test the product and how to assure quality"
  },
  {
    "start": 337.98,
    "end": 339.2,
    "text": "and how to measure quality."
  },
  {
    "start": 340.02,
    "end": 345.38,
    "text": "But in this 30, 25 years, a lot of change"
  },
  {
    "start": 346.12,
    "end": 349.64,
    "text": "was there in the testing area, mainly driven"
  },
  {
    "start": 350.56,
    "end": 354.12,
    "text": "through more standardization to new methods and strategies."
  },
  {
    "start": 354.3,
    "end": 358.76,
    "text": "How can we check quality, and how can we test our software?"
  },
  {
    "start": 359.62,
    "end": 363.12,
    "text": "There was the introduction or the more awareness"
  },
  {
    "start": 363.24,
    "end": 365.88,
    "text": "for test methods, which are--"
  },
  {
    "start": 365.88,
    "end": 367.34,
    "text": "some of them are really old now."
  },
  {
    "start": 367.38,
    "end": 373.72,
    "text": "But to use the test methods to define a test strategy, to define a test plan,"
  },
  {
    "start": 373.82,
    "end": 378.34,
    "text": "and this was crucial for the professionalism of testing."
  },
  {
    "start": 378.82,
    "end": 383.12,
    "text": "So the tester, even through certification or training or something,"
  },
  {
    "start": 383.22,
    "end": 389.66,
    "text": "gets more aware in the teams and the companies began to enforce some teams of"
  },
  {
    "start": 389.94,
    "end": 393.62,
    "text": "testers in the software development lifecycle."
  },
  {
    "start": 393.82,
    "end": 399.54,
    "text": "So there are sometimes test departments or sometimes test centers, so-called, or a test"
  },
  {
    "start": 399.64,
    "end": 406.78,
    "text": "factory in an organization who delivers test services into the projects."
  },
  {
    "start": 407.34,
    "end": 412.38,
    "text": "And in former times before Agile, we had this waterfall projects where a test team has to"
  },
  {
    "start": 412.58,
    "end": 414.16,
    "text": "do all the stuff at the end."
  },
  {
    "start": 415.8,
    "end": 422.68,
    "text": "But the testers get this professionalism in the development team."
  },
  {
    "start": 423.08,
    "end": 429.96,
    "text": "But what we saw in the last year is also very separating from the development team."
  },
  {
    "start": 430.1,
    "end": 433.32,
    "text": "So the developer is on the one side, the tester on the other side."
  },
  {
    "start": 433.63,
    "end": 437.88,
    "text": "And when we started all this agile stuff, these two roles came back together."
  },
  {
    "start": 438.4,
    "end": 444.599,
    "text": "So the tester is more the quality coach guy in the team who helps the developer to build"
  },
  {
    "start": 444.6,
    "end": 452.82,
    "text": "better unit and integration tests to fill in these seeds of quality into the team."
  },
  {
    "start": 452.93,
    "end": 459.18,
    "text": "And also the developer get more awareness for how can we build in quality into the software."
  },
  {
    "start": 459.5,
    "end": 467.64,
    "text": "So there's like a pendular between the separated tester and now back to the quality"
  },
  {
    "start": 468.44,
    "end": 473.34,
    "text": "engineer in the teams who does all this quality stuff there."
  },
  {
    "start": 473.98,
    "end": 478.4,
    "text": "And there's also a trade-off in how an expert you are."
  },
  {
    "start": 478.56,
    "end": 482.1,
    "text": "So in some time, you have a tester"
  },
  {
    "start": 482.1,
    "end": 485.48,
    "text": "who has all these test methods and is extreme good and deep"
  },
  {
    "start": 485.48,
    "end": 486.58,
    "text": "in these test methods."
  },
  {
    "start": 487.04,
    "end": 490.68,
    "text": "But if you see the software quality part,"
  },
  {
    "start": 490.68,
    "end": 494.92,
    "text": "you have to have a broad bandwidth of knowledge, which"
  },
  {
    "start": 494.68,
    "end": 501.84,
    "text": "leads that you don't have this death in test methods eventually. So the possible role of a"
  },
  {
    "start": 502.0,
    "end": 510.44,
    "text": "tester in this days or in the future is very transforming, very fluid. It depends on all the"
  },
  {
    "start": 510.58,
    "end": 516.76,
    "text": "organization, on the software development, state of the art processes, the best patterns we have"
  },
  {
    "start": 516.76,
    "end": 523.96,
    "text": "to use. So it's not so easy to define which fits best. So we have always to"
  },
  {
    "start": 524.03,
    "end": 530.42,
    "text": "think about what does a tester do and I think in the next years when we get all"
  },
  {
    "start": 530.52,
    "end": 535.88,
    "text": "the way from software developed by AI and so stuff I think this role gets"
  },
  {
    "start": 536.1,
    "end": 541.88,
    "text": "even more important. In the last years also the rise of the test automation"
  },
  {
    "start": 541.88,
    "end": 548.64,
    "text": "engineer as a professional role is also very important, but this leads to another different"
  },
  {
    "start": 548.7,
    "end": 550.04,
    "text": "role in all the projects."
  },
  {
    "start": 550.5,
    "end": 554.5,
    "text": "So this podcast is also about how can you learn new skills?"
  },
  {
    "start": 554.72,
    "end": 558.6,
    "text": "How can you improve your skills and in which direction do you want to go?"
  },
  {
    "start": 558.8,
    "end": 563.7,
    "text": "Maybe you are now a business tester and say, \"Okay, I want to go in the direction of test"
  },
  {
    "start": 563.76,
    "end": 567.84,
    "text": "automation,\" or, \"I'm a developer and I want to do more of the testing stuff,\" and so on."
  },
  {
    "start": 568.28,
    "end": 573.68,
    "text": "So I hope this podcast will help you to define your role in your team or for your team."
  },
  {
    "start": 574.76,
    "end": 579.78,
    "text": "The other part is the part of the test automation."
  },
  {
    "start": 580.24,
    "end": 587.32,
    "text": "I think test automation has a huge involvement since we started with Agile."
  },
  {
    "start": 588.82,
    "end": 593.62,
    "text": "When 25 years ago, the first projects began to use sprints and iterations."
  },
  {
    "start": 595.12,
    "end": 602.5,
    "text": "few sprints you recognize that regression tests, that manual testing is not really possible. So"
  },
  {
    "start": 603.24,
    "end": 611.94,
    "text": "the test automation was even more important than in former times. And this had some impacts. We had"
  },
  {
    "start": 612.64,
    "end": 619.24,
    "text": "a lot of new tools in the last years, who helps test automation implementation on the different"
  },
  {
    "start": 619.24,
    "end": 625.98,
    "text": "test levels, especially on the UI and end-to-end level."
  },
  {
    "start": 626.9,
    "end": 628.92,
    "text": "But also, we have now the discussion,"
  },
  {
    "start": 629.9,
    "end": 630.96,
    "text": "where do we test what?"
  },
  {
    "start": 631.04,
    "end": 634.36,
    "text": "We have the automated unit integration tests, system"
  },
  {
    "start": 634.48,
    "end": 638.02,
    "text": "tests, or UI tests, or contract-based testing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 638.03,
    "end": 639.52,
    "text": "if you think of API testing."
  },
  {
    "start": 640.14,
    "end": 645.1,
    "text": "So it's always a question in the team, where I do I automate"
  },
  {
    "start": 645.22,
    "end": 645.42,
    "text": "what?"
  },
  {
    "start": 645.68,
    "end": 648.36,
    "text": "And this is mainly a part, I think,"
  },
  {
    "start": 648.4,
    "end": 649.96,
    "text": "we have to discuss in the teams."
  },
  {
    "start": 650.42,
    "end": 652.76,
    "text": "But this discussion often is not there"
  },
  {
    "start": 652.98,
    "end": 654.86,
    "text": "because the testers are doing their stuff"
  },
  {
    "start": 654.9,
    "end": 656.22,
    "text": "and the developer doing their stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 656.3,
    "end": 659.16,
    "text": "And to improve this communication"
  },
  {
    "start": 659.38,
    "end": 661.72,
    "text": "and this exchange between the different roles"
  },
  {
    "start": 661.84,
    "end": 665.12,
    "text": "is I think one part which is very important"
  },
  {
    "start": 665.16,
    "end": 667.3,
    "text": "for the future of test automation."
  },
  {
    "start": 668.08,
    "end": 671.54,
    "text": "And I think when we think of test automation,"
  },
  {
    "start": 671.96,
    "end": 676.86,
    "text": "we have a huge innovation on the horizon."
  },
  {
    "start": 677.28,
    "end": 683.98,
    "text": "This is all about the AI agents who are doing their tasks on their own, maybe testing some"
  },
  {
    "start": 684.18,
    "end": 685.48,
    "text": "parts of our system."
  },
  {
    "start": 686.62,
    "end": 692.42,
    "text": "Just to be clear here, I don't think that AI will take over all the testing stuff in"
  },
  {
    "start": 692.42,
    "end": 697.8,
    "text": "the near future because it's mainly a business of trust, our testing business."
  },
  {
    "start": 698.22,
    "end": 705.38,
    "text": "But I think there are a lot of aspects where we can use AI, especially in test automation"
  },
  {
    "start": 705.52,
    "end": 706.06,
    "text": "in the future."
  },
  {
    "start": 706.48,
    "end": 710.38,
    "text": "So I think there will be a huge impact on this all AI agent stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 710.46,
    "end": 714.98,
    "text": "And this is also one part we will discuss here in the podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 715.9,
    "end": 720.5,
    "text": "Starting tomorrow with the second episode, in this episode, I will have Gilles Lachelle"
  },
  {
    "start": 720.6,
    "end": 724.62,
    "text": "in my podcast here, who talks about the AI agent."
  },
  {
    "start": 724.7,
    "end": 733.08,
    "text": "And not only the automation of the pure test automation view, I think we also have to deal"
  },
  {
    "start": 733.04,
    "end": 738.6,
    "text": "with a lot of automation in our daily work, automate our processes, automate our pipelines"
  },
  {
    "start": 739.04,
    "end": 741.46,
    "text": "and all these tasks, test data generation."
  },
  {
    "start": 741.94,
    "end": 747.4,
    "text": "I think there is a lot to do for the testers and this is also a part I think we have to"
  },
  {
    "start": 747.48,
    "end": 751.06,
    "text": "be aware of and we want to discuss in this podcast in the future."
  },
  {
    "start": 753.66,
    "end": 756.22,
    "text": "Another part is all the team structure."
  },
  {
    "start": 756.31,
    "end": 763.02,
    "text": "I mentioned before when the ROSE is nearby there, if you think about the agile team and"
  },
  {
    "start": 763.02,
    "end": 764.2,
    "text": "build an agile team."
  },
  {
    "start": 765.34,
    "end": 767.84,
    "text": "It's often very easy to say in agile"
  },
  {
    "start": 768.02,
    "end": 771.34,
    "text": "that your whole team has the responsibility for quality."
  },
  {
    "start": 772.46,
    "end": 775.54,
    "text": "If you just say that to a team, nobody is responsible."
  },
  {
    "start": 775.68,
    "end": 777.28,
    "text": "Maybe you know it from your company."
  },
  {
    "start": 777.46,
    "end": 782.58,
    "text": "So you have to build in this quality mindset into your team."
  },
  {
    "start": 783.08,
    "end": 786.6,
    "text": "And it's not a thing of the tester anymore."
  },
  {
    "start": 786.74,
    "end": 788.8,
    "text": "But the tester and the quality people"
  },
  {
    "start": 788.8,
    "end": 793.0,
    "text": "are often the people who put in this change"
  },
  {
    "start": 793.0,
    "end": 797.48,
    "text": "into the team to get the UX designer, the business"
  },
  {
    "start": 797.64,
    "end": 800.44,
    "text": "analyst, the developer, something from ops,"
  },
  {
    "start": 800.73,
    "end": 804.36,
    "text": "and so to think more in the direction of quality."
  },
  {
    "start": 805.0,
    "end": 808.4,
    "text": "So that really everybody has their part"
  },
  {
    "start": 808.65,
    "end": 813.36,
    "text": "in this whole quality assurance and built-in quality process"
  },
  {
    "start": 813.37,
    "end": 814.56,
    "text": "in software development."
  },
  {
    "start": 814.97,
    "end": 818.12,
    "text": "And I think also there is a big change in the last years."
  },
  {
    "start": 818.2,
    "end": 821.32,
    "text": "And a lot of companies, teams, and projects"
  },
  {
    "start": 821.32,
    "end": 824.04,
    "text": "are still struggling with all this change and transformation,"
  },
  {
    "start": 825.4,
    "end": 828.36,
    "text": "because sometimes this is also not done very good,"
  },
  {
    "start": 828.56,
    "end": 829.7,
    "text": "the transformation process."
  },
  {
    "start": 830.1,
    "end": 834.42,
    "text": "But I think we as a tester, with all our knowledge"
  },
  {
    "start": 834.64,
    "end": 840.24,
    "text": "and connecting the dots in the software engineering process,"
  },
  {
    "start": 841.16,
    "end": 844.12,
    "text": "have a huge impact there to make it better."
  },
  {
    "start": 845.8,
    "end": 850.2,
    "text": "The other part is that we see that in this whole project"
  },
  {
    "start": 850.2,
    "end": 853.8,
    "text": "area, and we have a lot of different project types."
  },
  {
    "start": 854.66,
    "end": 858.0,
    "text": "So in former times, there was something like waterfall,"
  },
  {
    "start": 858.38,
    "end": 860.94,
    "text": "but I don't really think that real waterfall was ever"
  },
  {
    "start": 860.99,
    "end": 861.8,
    "text": "on the place there."
  },
  {
    "start": 862.28,
    "end": 865.16,
    "text": "But then with beginning of the older agile frameworks"
  },
  {
    "start": 865.24,
    "end": 868.46,
    "text": "and agile thinking and mindset, there"
  },
  {
    "start": 868.46,
    "end": 872.68,
    "text": "are now a broad band of different project types"
  },
  {
    "start": 872.74,
    "end": 874.82,
    "text": "you can have in your organization,"
  },
  {
    "start": 875.44,
    "end": 877.66,
    "text": "from hybrid ones, from pure agile,"
  },
  {
    "start": 877.84,
    "end": 879.34,
    "text": "from something in between."
  },
  {
    "start": 880.3,
    "end": 884.1,
    "text": "So it's very individual project development, meanwhile,"
  },
  {
    "start": 884.32,
    "end": 886.38,
    "text": "in the organizations and in the community."
  },
  {
    "start": 887.0,
    "end": 890.12,
    "text": "And there we have to deal with all the CI/CD stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 890.5,
    "end": 894.38,
    "text": "How do we do the right agile, just following some methods"
  },
  {
    "start": 894.48,
    "end": 897.36,
    "text": "or thinking the agile values and thinking"
  },
  {
    "start": 897.5,
    "end": 899.62,
    "text": "about quality in this agile environment,"
  },
  {
    "start": 899.9,
    "end": 902.68,
    "text": "and what's about the quality and agile mindset and this stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 903.14,
    "end": 906.42,
    "text": "So I think this will be a big part in this podcast, too."
  },
  {
    "start": 907.16,
    "end": 910.76,
    "text": "And I think we have in the last two, three years"
  },
  {
    "start": 910.88,
    "end": 914.74,
    "text": "a very interesting part that we have"
  },
  {
    "start": 914.86,
    "end": 918.56,
    "text": "to think more about our non-functional requirements."
  },
  {
    "start": 919.3,
    "end": 923.36,
    "text": "In Europe, it's mainly forced by the regulatory affairs, which"
  },
  {
    "start": 924.4,
    "end": 927.92,
    "text": "say, OK, you have to think about your security,"
  },
  {
    "start": 928.2,
    "end": 931.16,
    "text": "about your usability, and all this stuff up front"
  },
  {
    "start": 931.22,
    "end": 933.46,
    "text": "in the project and over the whole project."
  },
  {
    "start": 933.92,
    "end": 936.36,
    "text": "So it's not done by doing a pen test at the end"
  },
  {
    "start": 936.98,
    "end": 939.26,
    "text": "or doing some review at the end."
  },
  {
    "start": 939.3,
    "end": 942.58,
    "text": "So you have to think all these non-functional parts"
  },
  {
    "start": 942.98,
    "end": 946.74,
    "text": "or the important ones throughout the whole process."
  },
  {
    "start": 947.26,
    "end": 952.08,
    "text": "So we started in the projects to think about,"
  },
  {
    "start": 952.48,
    "end": 954.1,
    "text": "what about security by design?"
  },
  {
    "start": 954.48,
    "end": 956.1,
    "text": "What about usability by design?"
  },
  {
    "start": 956.26,
    "end": 958.64,
    "text": "Because you all know, if you change something"
  },
  {
    "start": 958.86,
    "end": 961.519,
    "text": "in the architecture or something like that"
  },
  {
    "start": 961.52,
    "end": 964.36,
    "text": "at the end of the project, it can be very cost-intense"
  },
  {
    "start": 964.9,
    "end": 967.74,
    "text": "because you have to change something, the architecture"
  },
  {
    "start": 967.81,
    "end": 968.32,
    "text": "and so on."
  },
  {
    "start": 968.7,
    "end": 970.18,
    "text": "So it's not very cheap."
  },
  {
    "start": 970.38,
    "end": 973.6,
    "text": "So it's a good thing to think about all this stuff"
  },
  {
    "start": 975.04,
    "end": 977.58,
    "text": "throughout the process and the project."
  },
  {
    "start": 977.94,
    "end": 980.12,
    "text": "But this also is a new task we have"
  },
  {
    "start": 980.12,
    "end": 982.1,
    "text": "to deal with in the whole team."
  },
  {
    "start": 982.73,
    "end": 985.78,
    "text": "If it's the developer or the architect or a tester"
  },
  {
    "start": 985.9,
    "end": 988.16,
    "text": "or on test automation, we all have"
  },
  {
    "start": 988.24,
    "end": 989.8,
    "text": "to think about these things too."
  },
  {
    "start": 990.22,
    "end": 993.92,
    "text": "So how can we do this if we have a full day with our daily work"
  },
  {
    "start": 994.04,
    "end": 994.22,
    "text": "anyway?"
  },
  {
    "start": 994.92,
    "end": 998.56,
    "text": "So I think this is also a part we have to discuss now"
  },
  {
    "start": 998.72,
    "end": 1002.02,
    "text": "and in the next months here in the podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 1003.48,
    "end": 1007.36,
    "text": "Yeah, and one part I want to mention--"
  },
  {
    "start": 1008.32,
    "end": 1012.9,
    "text": "I hope so not very often, but in the right point--"
  },
  {
    "start": 1012.9,
    "end": 1014.2,
    "text": "is to talk about AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 1014.44,
    "end": 1016.5,
    "text": "Because we have to talk about AI,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1016.98,
    "end": 1019.82,
    "text": "but we have to go into the depth of AI"
  },
  {
    "start": 1019.98,
    "end": 1022.44,
    "text": "and how does it change our way we work."
  },
  {
    "start": 1022.98,
    "end": 1025.959,
    "text": "I think AI is now democratizing"
  },
  {
    "start": 1026.0,
    "end": 1027.48,
    "text": "our whole software development."
  },
  {
    "start": 1028.1,
    "end": 1029.98,
    "text": "So when we look in former innovations,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1030.12,
    "end": 1035.8,
    "text": "like was Netflix for the video viewing"
  },
  {
    "start": 1035.939,
    "end": 1038.92,
    "text": "or Airbnb for hotels or something like that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1039.48,
    "end": 1043.14,
    "text": "or the web for communicating and building content,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1044.6,
    "end": 1047.439,
    "text": "We have always-- software development"
  },
  {
    "start": 1047.62,
    "end": 1049.6,
    "text": "was a fortress, which has only been"
  },
  {
    "start": 1049.7,
    "end": 1051.12,
    "text": "done by software developers."
  },
  {
    "start": 1051.64,
    "end": 1052.54,
    "text": "And we did it good."
  },
  {
    "start": 1052.64,
    "end": 1055.44,
    "text": "We did our projects and programmed and so on."
  },
  {
    "start": 1056.02,
    "end": 1058.74,
    "text": "But now we see that with AI, everybody"
  },
  {
    "start": 1059.3,
    "end": 1061.46,
    "text": "is able to build software."
  },
  {
    "start": 1063.4,
    "end": 1064.94,
    "text": "It's called white coding."
  },
  {
    "start": 1065.32,
    "end": 1068.14,
    "text": "Sometimes it's built AI-driven programming,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1068.6,
    "end": 1069.22,
    "text": "something like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1069.32,
    "end": 1073.799,
    "text": "There is also a big broadband from using"
  },
  {
    "start": 1073.8,
    "end": 1077.14,
    "text": "AI as a support there or building a whole application"
  },
  {
    "start": 1077.32,
    "end": 1077.86,
    "text": "with AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 1078.0,
    "end": 1080.34,
    "text": "And this is, I think, just the beginning."
  },
  {
    "start": 1081.06,
    "end": 1084.52,
    "text": "So I think when everybody is able to build"
  },
  {
    "start": 1084.55,
    "end": 1087.54,
    "text": "an app and a website and some applications"
  },
  {
    "start": 1088.7,
    "end": 1093.24,
    "text": "and is doing that, we will get a huge amount of software"
  },
  {
    "start": 1093.25,
    "end": 1098.72,
    "text": "in the next months and years from people who are mainly not"
  },
  {
    "start": 1098.9,
    "end": 1100.0,
    "text": "the software developers."
  },
  {
    "start": 1101.919,
    "end": 1104.74,
    "text": "And who decides if this software is good?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1105.0,
    "end": 1106.98,
    "text": "We have a lot of software then to test,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1107.2,
    "end": 1110.04,
    "text": "and the quality can be good, but it also can be very bad."
  },
  {
    "start": 1110.04,
    "end": 1113.06,
    "text": "There can be pitfalls in there or something like that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1113.18,
    "end": 1116.76,
    "text": "or security vulnerabilities, all this stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 1117.8,
    "end": 1119.28,
    "text": "So we have to deal with that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1120.58,
    "end": 1123.12,
    "text": "AI supports software development now very much."
  },
  {
    "start": 1123.2,
    "end": 1125.52,
    "text": "And how can we use it in testing?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1125.7,
    "end": 1130.46,
    "text": "How can we support our testing frameworks with AI?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1131.06,
    "end": 1134.2,
    "text": "Should we replace some tests with AI tests,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1134.54,
    "end": 1135.48,
    "text": "AI-driven tests?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1135.62,
    "end": 1140.4,
    "text": "Or should we focus on more edge cases or something like that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1140.54,
    "end": 1144.02,
    "text": "There is a huge discussion now in the whole community."
  },
  {
    "start": 1144.58,
    "end": 1147.84,
    "text": "And I think there is no real answer now,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1148.06,
    "end": 1149.4,
    "text": "because we all have to explore."
  },
  {
    "start": 1149.4,
    "end": 1152.02,
    "text": "We have to learn how to deal with the stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 1153.84,
    "end": 1156.58,
    "text": "And if we look now at testing, testing"
  },
  {
    "start": 1156.92,
    "end": 1158.72,
    "text": "is a lot about building trust."
  },
  {
    "start": 1159.38,
    "end": 1163.66,
    "text": "It's about gathering information from out of a test object,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1163.9,
    "end": 1168.46,
    "text": "and then give the stakeholders an idea how the quality is"
  },
  {
    "start": 1168.76,
    "end": 1172.9,
    "text": "that they can sit back and say, OK, we have a good software"
  },
  {
    "start": 1173.08,
    "end": 1174.5,
    "text": "here, and it's everything fine."
  },
  {
    "start": 1174.98,
    "end": 1180.4,
    "text": "So now if an AI will take over the whole testing process,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1180.58,
    "end": 1182.6,
    "text": "I think this trust is not existent"
  },
  {
    "start": 1182.6,
    "end": 1183.1,
    "text": "anymore."
  },
  {
    "start": 1183.46,
    "end": 1186.88,
    "text": "But it will be in anywhere in the future"
  },
  {
    "start": 1187.0,
    "end": 1192.22,
    "text": "that AI will more support us in developing better test cases"
  },
  {
    "start": 1192.25,
    "end": 1194.26,
    "text": "or doing some test automation and so on."
  },
  {
    "start": 1194.74,
    "end": 1199.02,
    "text": "And the other part is not just that we use AI,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1199.22,
    "end": 1205.32,
    "text": "but we also have to deal that we have to do more tests with AI,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1205.5,
    "end": 1208.24,
    "text": "so that we are testing AI systems."
  },
  {
    "start": 1209.18,
    "end": 1213.58,
    "text": "And I think there is also a big black hole for a lot of people"
  },
  {
    "start": 1213.63,
    "end": 1215.56,
    "text": "in the software project environment."
  },
  {
    "start": 1217.1,
    "end": 1221.18,
    "text": "Because testing in AI, you know, if you"
  },
  {
    "start": 1221.18,
    "end": 1226.24,
    "text": "have a classical test case which says put something in,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1226.55,
    "end": 1230.34,
    "text": "you get the expected result. When you put it in an AI,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1230.45,
    "end": 1232.58,
    "text": "you have every time another result."
  },
  {
    "start": 1232.76,
    "end": 1236.34,
    "text": "So you have to focus on what are you testing in AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 1236.53,
    "end": 1237.54,
    "text": "Do you test the model?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1237.66,
    "end": 1238.7,
    "text": "Do you test the training?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1239.02,
    "end": 1246.3,
    "text": "some interfaces, you have to think about what quality characteristics are you using and is there"
  },
  {
    "start": 1246.42,
    "end": 1255.46,
    "text": "more, not a really deterministic way of testing this or mass statistical testing. So a lot of"
  },
  {
    "start": 1255.86,
    "end": 1262.5,
    "text": "new methods will be generated in the next month and even are now generated to test AI systems."
  },
  {
    "start": 1263.36,
    "end": 1268.46,
    "text": "And I think this is also a part we have to deal with and we will discuss in this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1268.46,
    "end": 1277.6,
    "text": "podcast. Yeah, and this all leads to one point. I think it's for us, not for testers only,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1277.72,
    "end": 1285.64,
    "text": "but also for quality minded developers, for UX experts, for business analysts, project"
  },
  {
    "start": 1285.7,
    "end": 1294.299,
    "text": "managers and people you can think in the software development process. It's crucial to think"
  },
  {
    "start": 1294.3,
    "end": 1299.2,
    "text": "about which skills do I need, which mindset do I need, and which tools can I use."
  },
  {
    "start": 1299.58,
    "end": 1309.5,
    "text": "And I think in these times it's not so important to use this or that tool, but to have a mindset"
  },
  {
    "start": 1309.76,
    "end": 1316.72,
    "text": "and to have values and some methods and strategies to use any tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 1317.28,
    "end": 1322.98,
    "text": "And so for me, the whole part of personal development in our team, for our individuals,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1323.34,
    "end": 1330.08,
    "text": "us as testers, as developer and so on. This is crucial to survive in this world which gets more"
  },
  {
    "start": 1330.3,
    "end": 1338.66,
    "text": "AI driven. So this podcast is mainly under the brackets of personal development to give you an"
  },
  {
    "start": 1338.78,
    "end": 1344.92,
    "text": "inspiration, give you some ideas of skills and maybe that you can go out there to learn more,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1345.18,
    "end": 1354.24,
    "text": "to get better in your job and to rethink about old beliefs you have, maybe to build a new personal"
  },
  {
    "start": 1354.44,
    "end": 1355.94,
    "text": "strength to survive"
  },
  {
    "start": 1355.94,
    "end": 1356.72,
    "text": "in"
  },
  {
    "start": 1356.72,
    "end": 1362.18,
    "text": "this software project in the future. Or to decide to get into the projects."
  },
  {
    "start": 1362.18,
    "end": 1368.74,
    "text": "I have also in my German podcast some people who write me, who wrote me that they joined software"
  },
  {
    "start": 1368.86,
    "end": 1375.16,
    "text": "testing and the software engineering process from outside because they heard the podcast and were"
  },
  {
    "start": 1375.16,
    "end": 1381.16,
    "text": "what is software testing. So maybe you dive in into the software testing or you say, \"Okay,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1381.26,
    "end": 1387.78,
    "text": "I will... nothing have to do with that. I go out and will be something, a UX designer or something"
  },
  {
    "start": 1387.92,
    "end": 1392.24,
    "text": "like that, or a gardener or something like that.\" That's also good. But think about the personal"
  },
  {
    "start": 1392.42,
    "end": 1401.72,
    "text": "development as one of the brackets for this podcast. Yeah, and this leads to my... to the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1401.72,
    "end": 1405.0,
    "text": "The claim back quality is an attitude."
  },
  {
    "start": 1405.52,
    "end": 1411.2,
    "text": "I think everybody in the project has to think quality, and it's not that easy as this"
  },
  {
    "start": 1411.44,
    "end": 1412.58,
    "text": "sentence says it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1413.48,
    "end": 1420.1,
    "text": "So thinking in quality and thinking with quality as a trade-off to our time constraints, to"
  },
  {
    "start": 1420.14,
    "end": 1424.92,
    "text": "our fast release cycles, and so on, it's not so easy."
  },
  {
    "start": 1425.11,
    "end": 1430.08,
    "text": "And this podcast should help you with that and should help you to get better in your"
  },
  {
    "start": 1430.08,
    "end": 1432.38,
    "text": "job and to build better software."
  },
  {
    "start": 1433.82,
    "end": 1437.9,
    "text": "And I hope you have fun with this podcast in the next month or when you hear it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1438.14,
    "end": 1441.68,
    "text": "I hope you share the content with your network."
  },
  {
    "start": 1442.74,
    "end": 1447.08,
    "text": "Maybe you have someone who should also hear the podcast to send it here."
  },
  {
    "start": 1447.56,
    "end": 1449.36,
    "text": "This is a community podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 1449.62,
    "end": 1451.74,
    "text": "It's from the community to the community."
  },
  {
    "start": 1452.3,
    "end": 1455.88,
    "text": "So there is no investment behind or something like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1456.8,
    "end": 1462.96,
    "text": "I want to give you, the community, an inspiration, a new thinking and some new ideas."
  },
  {
    "start": 1463.31,
    "end": 1464.8,
    "text": "And I hope it will work."
  },
  {
    "start": 1466.0,
    "end": 1474.46,
    "text": "And yeah, so stay in touch, follow the podcast and have fun with all the episodes which are"
  },
  {
    "start": 1474.58,
    "end": 1476.28,
    "text": "coming in the next months."
  },
  {
    "start": 1476.6,
    "end": 1484.76,
    "text": "And if you have any feedback, I remind you again, write me at podcast@testing-unleashed.fm."
  },
  {
    "start": 1485.9,
    "end": 1488.52,
    "text": "Have a good day, thank you very much, bye bye."
  }
]