[
  {
    "start": 1.1,
    "end": 6.88,
    "text": "Welcome to Software Testing Unleashed, the podcast for testers, developers and software"
  },
  {
    "start": 6.98,
    "end": 9.58,
    "text": "makers who live quality as an attitude."
  },
  {
    "start": 10.5,
    "end": 16.7,
    "text": "Get fresh ideas and sharp insights to grow your mindset, to learn new methods and to"
  },
  {
    "start": 16.8,
    "end": 19.26,
    "text": "drive real change in how we build software."
  },
  {
    "start": 20.08,
    "end": 23.08,
    "text": "software and better teams for a better world."
  },
  {
    "start": 32.08,
    "end": 37.86,
    "text": "Hi, I'm Richie, software quality coach, keynote speaker and author. My guest"
  },
  {
    "start": 37.94,
    "end": 43.68,
    "text": "today is Maciej Wyrodek. Maciej is a quality consultant, mentor and trainer with a"
  },
  {
    "start": 43.68,
    "end": 48.74,
    "text": "strong focus on test automation and process improvement. He's worked across a"
  },
  {
    "start": 48.44,
    "end": 53.14,
    "text": "a wide range of companies from startups to big corporations and from in-house"
  },
  {
    "start": 53.36,
    "end": 58.26,
    "text": "development to software houses. That gives him a broad and practical view on"
  },
  {
    "start": 58.36,
    "end": 63.46,
    "text": "software quality. He's also a passionate knowledge sharer, writing articles,"
  },
  {
    "start": 63.7,
    "end": 69.98,
    "text": "speaking at conferences and he has his own YouTube channel, IT Morning. For"
  },
  {
    "start": 70.14,
    "end": 75.48,
    "text": "much learning and sharing are at the core of our work. We first met at the"
  },
  {
    "start": 75.24,
    "end": 80.24,
    "text": "testing retreat and I took a lot of inspiration from his thoughts. In this"
  },
  {
    "start": 80.28,
    "end": 84.88,
    "text": "episode we talk about switching from Cypress to Playwright and what it really"
  },
  {
    "start": 85.04,
    "end": 90.26,
    "text": "takes to change automation frameworks in a live fast-moving product environment."
  },
  {
    "start": 91.56,
    "end": 96.38,
    "text": "What do you do when your automation tool starts working against you and not with"
  },
  {
    "start": 96.5,
    "end": 102.119,
    "text": "you? Why is the most popular tool not always the right for you and your"
  },
  {
    "start": 102.12,
    "end": 108.86,
    "text": "context? And can AI actually migrate your test suite or does it just look like it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 110.03,
    "end": 116.12,
    "text": "We go step by step through March's team strategy from evaluating tools in a hands-on hackathon"
  },
  {
    "start": 116.83,
    "end": 122.44,
    "text": "to managing real-world migration challenges with limited capacity and high expectations."
  },
  {
    "start": 123.55,
    "end": 128.52,
    "text": "You also hear how Playwright wins out where it still surprises them and how the team"
  },
  {
    "start": 128.52,
    "end": 133.94,
    "text": "experiments with AI to accelerate the transition. And now enjoy the episode."
  },
  {
    "start": 135.1,
    "end": 140.7,
    "text": "Hi Maciej, nice to have you on the show. Hi Rikki, nice to see you. We haven't seen you in"
  },
  {
    "start": 140.7,
    "end": 147.8,
    "text": "a few months now. Yes, a lot happened in this month as I heard up front. And we met at the"
  },
  {
    "start": 148.26,
    "end": 156.76,
    "text": "testing retreat in Belgium last year, the second time we met there at the retreat. And we had the"
  },
  {
    "start": 156.52,
    "end": 163.94,
    "text": "idea to make a podcast episode together. And yeah, I'm very happy that you are here and we've chosen"
  },
  {
    "start": 164.02,
    "end": 172.9,
    "text": "a very nice topic for our talk today about test automation and your migration, your big migration"
  },
  {
    "start": 173.04,
    "end": 179.5,
    "text": "you're dealing with. But before we start, just get us into what's your daily business, what you're"
  },
  {
    "start": 179.32,
    "end": 181.78,
    "text": "dealing with in your software development?"
  },
  {
    "start": 183.72,
    "end": 190.82,
    "text": "- Okay, so starting, I am in software development for about 14 years, if I'm counting correctly"
  },
  {
    "start": 190.91,
    "end": 198.02,
    "text": "right now. And currently I'm working for Displate. Displate is a company that is making metal posters,"
  },
  {
    "start": 198.21,
    "end": 203.98,
    "text": "as you can see behind me there, those are the posters from Displate. And you could think that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 203.98,
    "end": 205.84,
    "text": "Well, this is basically e-commerce shop."
  },
  {
    "start": 205.94,
    "end": 210.58,
    "text": "There is not much development there, but actually there is a lot connected to,"
  },
  {
    "start": 210.61,
    "end": 217.36,
    "text": "you know, since we have our own factory, there is a lot of our custom admin"
  },
  {
    "start": 217.6,
    "end": 221.12,
    "text": "staff, like, you know, managing artworks, managing the copyrights, managing"
  },
  {
    "start": 221.2,
    "end": 222.0,
    "text": "work with the artist."
  },
  {
    "start": 222.6,
    "end": 225.06,
    "text": "So there is a lot of custom code there."
  },
  {
    "start": 225.1,
    "end": 227.62,
    "text": "So it's not just, you know, simple e-commerce."
  },
  {
    "start": 228.18,
    "end": 232.3,
    "text": "And for part of this, as you mentioned,"
  },
  {
    "start": 232.62,
    "end": 236.34,
    "text": "we had the end-to-end automatization in Cypress,"
  },
  {
    "start": 236.94,
    "end": 239.66,
    "text": "and we decided to do switch on the playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 239.76,
    "end": 241.98,
    "text": "I can go for why we decided to switch."
  },
  {
    "start": 241.98,
    "end": 243.7,
    "text": "You can go through the whole process if you like."
  },
  {
    "start": 244.04,
    "end": 245.6,
    "text": "Yes, I would be very interested,"
  },
  {
    "start": 245.94,
    "end": 250.18,
    "text": "because Cypress is a very often used tool for test automation."
  },
  {
    "start": 250.38,
    "end": 253.2,
    "text": "Why did you choose to go away?"
  },
  {
    "start": 253.34,
    "end": 256.82,
    "text": "And what is your amount of tests you have in Cypress?"
  },
  {
    "start": 258.479,
    "end": 265.42,
    "text": "- Sure. So basically, I need to start a little before Mike came to the display, because at that"
  },
  {
    "start": 265.68,
    "end": 271.08,
    "text": "time there was in one of the projects, let's say the front-end part, the part that most users are"
  },
  {
    "start": 271.24,
    "end": 276.44,
    "text": "using, there were some automation in Cypress around the time that I joined the company,"
  },
  {
    "start": 277.1,
    "end": 286.84,
    "text": "and there was another project, the backend stuff, not backend in the understanding of us as, you"
  },
  {
    "start": 286.84,
    "end": 288.2,
    "text": "in understanding of the business."
  },
  {
    "start": 288.44,
    "end": 290.64,
    "text": "So, you know, the place where the customer support"
  },
  {
    "start": 291.12,
    "end": 292.0,
    "text": "and others are working."
  },
  {
    "start": 292.58,
    "end": 295.74,
    "text": "And that project hadn't at that moment,"
  },
  {
    "start": 295.98,
    "end": 296.86,
    "text": "this automatization."
  },
  {
    "start": 297.58,
    "end": 299.52,
    "text": "And one of the first things I was there"
  },
  {
    "start": 299.62,
    "end": 301.48,
    "text": "was deciding how we're gonna automate it."
  },
  {
    "start": 302.85,
    "end": 304.94,
    "text": "And what I'm now calling bad decision"
  },
  {
    "start": 305.26,
    "end": 307.46,
    "text": "was I decided to go with the Cypress back then"
  },
  {
    "start": 307.52,
    "end": 308.82,
    "text": "because I was new in the company."
  },
  {
    "start": 309.46,
    "end": 312.7,
    "text": "It was kind of my decision because I joined in as QA lead,"
  },
  {
    "start": 313.16,
    "end": 315.12,
    "text": "but I didn't want to rock the boat"
  },
  {
    "start": 315.12,
    "end": 319.3,
    "text": "and take another framework on one thing we have in the Cypress,"
  },
  {
    "start": 319.46,
    "end": 320.3,
    "text": "another in Playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 321.16,
    "end": 324.3,
    "text": "From the hindsight, it was a kind of bad decision"
  },
  {
    "start": 324.37,
    "end": 325.9,
    "text": "due to the nature of the project,"
  },
  {
    "start": 326.12,
    "end": 329.92,
    "text": "because Cypress has its lots of advantages."
  },
  {
    "start": 330.1,
    "end": 331.78,
    "text": "For example, it's very fast to learn,"
  },
  {
    "start": 332.7,
    "end": 336.82,
    "text": "but it has very specific DSL, domain-specific language,"
  },
  {
    "start": 337.4,
    "end": 338.64,
    "text": "that you have to use."
  },
  {
    "start": 338.92,
    "end": 342.36,
    "text": "It's very hard to write test in different way"
  },
  {
    "start": 342.36,
    "end": 345.1,
    "text": "then the Cypress authors want you to write."
  },
  {
    "start": 345.52,
    "end": 348.68,
    "text": "They have very opinionated way on writing tests,"
  },
  {
    "start": 348.8,
    "end": 350.04,
    "text": "how the assertions should be looking,"
  },
  {
    "start": 350.4,
    "end": 351.54,
    "text": "what tests should be testing."
  },
  {
    "start": 353.22,
    "end": 356.86,
    "text": "And basically, lots of people are going away from that"
  },
  {
    "start": 356.96,
    "end": 358.66,
    "text": "because there are thousand plugins"
  },
  {
    "start": 358.86,
    "end": 360.44,
    "text": "and you can do everything with Cypress."
  },
  {
    "start": 361.1,
    "end": 362.94,
    "text": "But as with the plugins, you know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 363.22,
    "end": 365.34,
    "text": "the problem is keeping them up to date,"
  },
  {
    "start": 365.44,
    "end": 368.7,
    "text": "keeping them comparable with the different version"
  },
  {
    "start": 368.92,
    "end": 369.48,
    "text": "of Cypress."
  },
  {
    "start": 369.92,
    "end": 374.56,
    "text": "And what we were seeing is that our way of writing test,"
  },
  {
    "start": 374.7,
    "end": 378.3,
    "text": "what we wanted from our test, what we kind of needed"
  },
  {
    "start": 378.48,
    "end": 382.22,
    "text": "was different than what Cypress was able to offer us."
  },
  {
    "start": 382.68,
    "end": 385.16,
    "text": "And quite often we were going not with the framework,"
  },
  {
    "start": 385.7,
    "end": 387.28,
    "text": "but against the framework."
  },
  {
    "start": 387.5,
    "end": 392.44,
    "text": "So for example, since we have some third party"
  },
  {
    "start": 392.84,
    "end": 395.58,
    "text": "like payments, which often are iFrames,"
  },
  {
    "start": 396.24,
    "end": 397.56,
    "text": "Cypress doesn't like iFrames."
  },
  {
    "start": 397.72,
    "end": 399.9,
    "text": "You can work with them with proper plugin,"
  },
  {
    "start": 400.16,
    "end": 401.4,
    "text": "but they are always problematic."
  },
  {
    "start": 402.1,
    "end": 405.82,
    "text": "There were also some aspects that Cypress, for example,"
  },
  {
    "start": 406.08,
    "end": 408.86,
    "text": "what we needed due to the size of our web page."
  },
  {
    "start": 409.42,
    "end": 411.58,
    "text": "We, for example, needed a whole page screen."
  },
  {
    "start": 412.0,
    "end": 413.1,
    "text": "When something failed,"
  },
  {
    "start": 413.78,
    "end": 415.4,
    "text": "usually you wouldn't have it on the screen"
  },
  {
    "start": 415.58,
    "end": 417.76,
    "text": "because it was checking element that was under the screen."
  },
  {
    "start": 418.28,
    "end": 420.9,
    "text": "And the way how scrolling works in the Cypress,"
  },
  {
    "start": 420.95,
    "end": 425.04,
    "text": "you won't always have the proper position of the screen"
  },
  {
    "start": 425.16,
    "end": 426.22,
    "text": "on your errors,"
  },
  {
    "start": 427.08,
    "end": 432.2,
    "text": "because I don't want to go into technical details too much"
  },
  {
    "start": 432.22,
    "end": 434.78,
    "text": "because probably some of your fans know more than me."
  },
  {
    "start": 435.72,
    "end": 439.26,
    "text": "But basically, Cypress is properly scrolling to that place,"
  },
  {
    "start": 439.76,
    "end": 444.5,
    "text": "but it doesn't mean that on the, let's say, error view,"
  },
  {
    "start": 444.56,
    "end": 446.06,
    "text": "you will have the scroll DOM."
  },
  {
    "start": 446.86,
    "end": 448.1,
    "text": "And that was a big problem."
  },
  {
    "start": 448.46,
    "end": 450.62,
    "text": "And if you want to set up the proper way"
  },
  {
    "start": 450.65,
    "end": 452.02,
    "text": "of scrolling the page,"
  },
  {
    "start": 452.02,
    "end": 454.02,
    "text": "you can set up something like full screen error."
  },
  {
    "start": 455.32,
    "end": 456.54,
    "text": "It doesn't always work."
  },
  {
    "start": 456.64,
    "end": 458.46,
    "text": "There is, maybe now it's fixed."
  },
  {
    "start": 458.58,
    "end": 460.18,
    "text": "I haven't checked it in some time"
  },
  {
    "start": 460.34,
    "end": 463.16,
    "text": "because we're doing the work around a year ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 463.82,
    "end": 466.96,
    "text": "There was a known issue, which back then was kind of"
  },
  {
    "start": 467.04,
    "end": 469.42,
    "text": "won't fix that if you're using React"
  },
  {
    "start": 469.42,
    "end": 470.56,
    "text": "with specific configuration,"
  },
  {
    "start": 470.86,
    "end": 472.32,
    "text": "if you try to do full screen page,"
  },
  {
    "start": 472.96,
    "end": 475.0,
    "text": "like, you know, the whole page that is very long,"
  },
  {
    "start": 475.22,
    "end": 478.38,
    "text": "it will be repeating always the first view."
  },
  {
    "start": 478.52,
    "end": 481.54,
    "text": "So you will have, let's say seven times the header"
  },
  {
    "start": 481.62,
    "end": 482.42,
    "text": "and just it."
  },
  {
    "start": 483.12,
    "end": 487.84,
    "text": "And well, for one, it's problem for us."
  },
  {
    "start": 487.84,
    "end": 488.96,
    "text": "It was problem for others."
  },
  {
    "start": 489.08,
    "end": 490.32,
    "text": "It's something that they can live with."
  },
  {
    "start": 490.59,
    "end": 492.76,
    "text": "We had some workarounds around it,"
  },
  {
    "start": 492.88,
    "end": 496.34,
    "text": "but we had their own workaround on workaround, workaround."
  },
  {
    "start": 498.06,
    "end": 500.72,
    "text": "And the point that kind of was for us"
  },
  {
    "start": 500.76,
    "end": 502.54,
    "text": "throw that broke the camel back"
  },
  {
    "start": 502.8,
    "end": 505.62,
    "text": "was the situation with the currents."
  },
  {
    "start": 505.98,
    "end": 507.08,
    "text": "I don't know how much you know"
  },
  {
    "start": 507.72,
    "end": 511.18,
    "text": "about how the Cypress parallelization work."
  },
  {
    "start": 511.56,
    "end": 512.8,
    "text": "No, tell me, please."
  },
  {
    "start": 513.9,
    "end": 516.86,
    "text": "- So basically, in Selenium times,"
  },
  {
    "start": 516.94,
    "end": 519.919,
    "text": "you basically were completely on, you could do everything."
  },
  {
    "start": 519.94,
    "end": 523.12,
    "text": "You had the Selenium grid, which you could self-host"
  },
  {
    "start": 523.32,
    "end": 526.26,
    "text": "and you could do your own parallelizations."
  },
  {
    "start": 526.62,
    "end": 529.18,
    "text": "There were companies and they're still like BrowserStack,"
  },
  {
    "start": 530.28,
    "end": 532.24,
    "text": "Sourcelab, that they were providing"
  },
  {
    "start": 532.36,
    "end": 534.3,
    "text": "your Selenium grid options."
  },
  {
    "start": 535.14,
    "end": 538.22,
    "text": "And Cypress kind of decided to make business"
  },
  {
    "start": 538.22,
    "end": 539.42,
    "text": "on selling parallelization."
  },
  {
    "start": 539.56,
    "end": 543.6,
    "text": "So framework by its own, it's free to use."
  },
  {
    "start": 544.22,
    "end": 548.12,
    "text": "You can create your own plugin to do local parallelization,"
  },
  {
    "start": 548.86,
    "end": 551.2,
    "text": "but kinda, and now it's much more popular."
  },
  {
    "start": 551.44,
    "end": 556.08,
    "text": "Back then there wasn't many of such options."
  },
  {
    "start": 556.22,
    "end": 559.92,
    "text": "One of them was Sotus/Cypress done by the,"
  },
  {
    "start": 561.86,
    "end": 564.78,
    "text": "I don't remember his name and he's gonna be mad at me"
  },
  {
    "start": 564.84,
    "end": 566.9,
    "text": "because we're talking quite a lot."
  },
  {
    "start": 568.56,
    "end": 571.22,
    "text": "You know, this is typical blanking during the interview."
  },
  {
    "start": 572.18,
    "end": 574.72,
    "text": "So, Andrew, Andrew, sorry, Andrew,"
  },
  {
    "start": 574.82,
    "end": 576.0,
    "text": "that I couldn't remember your name."
  },
  {
    "start": 577.36,
    "end": 582.36,
    "text": "So, Andrew that don't, sorry, Cypress also had the currents."
  },
  {
    "start": 583.0,
    "end": 584.98,
    "text": "He's implementation that you can buy"
  },
  {
    "start": 585.58,
    "end": 588.86,
    "text": "and you can use for, you know, with their hosting,"
  },
  {
    "start": 589.08,
    "end": 589.66,
    "text": "that's kind of stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 590.06,
    "end": 591.92,
    "text": "Kind of similar to the Cypress Cloud."
  },
  {
    "start": 592.54,
    "end": 596.499,
    "text": "Difference is that in the amount of users"
  },
  {
    "start": 596.5,
    "end": 600.3,
    "text": "that you would need for Cypress Cloud for organization like us."
  },
  {
    "start": 601.7,
    "end": 606.34,
    "text": "In Cypress Cloud, it was 10 to 20 times much more expensive"
  },
  {
    "start": 606.74,
    "end": 608.78,
    "text": "than using the currents."
  },
  {
    "start": 609.12,
    "end": 611.14,
    "text": "We wanted to discuss it with Cypress"
  },
  {
    "start": 611.4,
    "end": 614.6,
    "text": "because basically at that time they had packages"
  },
  {
    "start": 614.82,
    "end": 620.7,
    "text": "that was like you have the number of users and number of runs."
  },
  {
    "start": 621.46,
    "end": 622.94,
    "text": "We wanted more users."
  },
  {
    "start": 622.98,
    "end": 625.26,
    "text": "We didn't have problem with number of runs,"
  },
  {
    "start": 625.4,
    "end": 626.38,
    "text": "but we wanted more users."
  },
  {
    "start": 626.42,
    "end": 629.42,
    "text": "And they wanted from us to go to the much bigger packet,"
  },
  {
    "start": 629.52,
    "end": 631.82,
    "text": "which has much more runs, which you couldn't use,"
  },
  {
    "start": 632.26,
    "end": 633.94,
    "text": "but they weren't very flexible"
  },
  {
    "start": 634.12,
    "end": 636.22,
    "text": "with negotiating that kind of situation."
  },
  {
    "start": 638.58,
    "end": 642.42,
    "text": "And that was more than basically my whole QA budget"
  },
  {
    "start": 642.52,
    "end": 643.1,
    "text": "for that year."
  },
  {
    "start": 643.3,
    "end": 647.4,
    "text": "So we went with currents and at some point,"
  },
  {
    "start": 647.6,
    "end": 652.1,
    "text": "Cypress was very mad at currents, calling them bad,"
  },
  {
    "start": 654.52,
    "end": 657.54,
    "text": "bad, not enemies, bad competition."
  },
  {
    "start": 659.92,
    "end": 662.8,
    "text": "Because let's not go into the technical details."
  },
  {
    "start": 663.54,
    "end": 665.58,
    "text": "I am on both sides."
  },
  {
    "start": 665.58,
    "end": 668.7,
    "text": "I understand the point of view of the Cypress"
  },
  {
    "start": 670.04,
    "end": 672.72,
    "text": "because as much as it was funny for me,"
  },
  {
    "start": 672.82,
    "end": 676.92,
    "text": "the fact that the library that was used by Karens"
  },
  {
    "start": 676.98,
    "end": 680.079,
    "text": "was called Cypress Cloud was very on the nose"
  },
  {
    "start": 680.08,
    "end": 682.76,
    "text": "and kind of could infringe on the naming of Cypress."
  },
  {
    "start": 683.46,
    "end": 686.9,
    "text": "But there was a lot of bad blood there"
  },
  {
    "start": 686.9,
    "end": 690.02,
    "text": "to the point that Cypress blocked the ability"
  },
  {
    "start": 690.04,
    "end": 690.8,
    "text": "to use currents."
  },
  {
    "start": 690.82,
    "end": 694.64,
    "text": "If you have the Cypress above, I think version 13,"
  },
  {
    "start": 695.08,
    "end": 696.98,
    "text": "you cannot use it with currents."
  },
  {
    "start": 698.0,
    "end": 700.78,
    "text": "And for us going with Cypress wasn't the option"
  },
  {
    "start": 700.86,
    "end": 701.72,
    "text": "with the Cypress Cloud."
  },
  {
    "start": 701.8,
    "end": 702.82,
    "text": "It was too expensive."
  },
  {
    "start": 703.68,
    "end": 706.84,
    "text": "And we had lots of other smaller issues"
  },
  {
    "start": 707.12,
    "end": 710.06,
    "text": "and we were seeing lots of the problems"
  },
  {
    "start": 710.06,
    "end": 718.3,
    "text": "This kind of move showed us that we couldn't treat Cypress as, you know, a serious partner in any form of negotiation."
  },
  {
    "start": 719.24,
    "end": 729.92,
    "text": "So we bought, we still, we're currently still with the currents on our Cypress that is not updated because we are, I think, on version 12 something, the last that is supported by currents."
  },
  {
    "start": 730.82,
    "end": 738.38,
    "text": "But at that point, we decided we will be leaving the Cypress ecosystem."
  },
  {
    "start": 738.78,
    "end": 745.78,
    "text": "That was, just to show you how long it took, that was September 2023."
  },
  {
    "start": 747.33,
    "end": 747.9,
    "text": "Oh, okay."
  },
  {
    "start": 748.04,
    "end": 748.14,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 748.72,
    "end": 754.84,
    "text": "So, just to show you that the process wasn't fast, it was quite long."
  },
  {
    "start": 755.7,
    "end": 763.74,
    "text": "Because, for first thing, most of my team is doing typical day-to-day business work,"
  },
  {
    "start": 763.84,
    "end": 767.62,
    "text": "testing stuff that is regular, still maintaining our regular test."
  },
  {
    "start": 767.78,
    "end": 773.22,
    "text": "So even if that was one of our goals for 2024,"
  },
  {
    "start": 774.15,
    "end": 776.32,
    "text": "it wasn't as easy."
  },
  {
    "start": 776.58,
    "end": 779.3,
    "text": "It wasn't something that we knew that's going to happen from day to day."
  },
  {
    "start": 779.5,
    "end": 781.3,
    "text": "So, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 781.56,
    "end": 782.94,
    "text": "So you have no background."
  },
  {
    "start": 782.99,
    "end": 784.38,
    "text": "Do you have any question to the background?"
  },
  {
    "start": 784.8,
    "end": 788.0,
    "text": "No, that's a good introduction to the topic."
  },
  {
    "start": 788.42,
    "end": 793.48,
    "text": "And if you decide such a decision to change the test automation framework"
  },
  {
    "start": 793.72,
    "end": 796.04,
    "text": "from one big player to another,"
  },
  {
    "start": 796.28,
    "end": 804.0,
    "text": "is you have to deal with a lot of things, you have to mention all the transition stuff,"
  },
  {
    "start": 804.16,
    "end": 809.62,
    "text": "and as you said, you have all your day-to-day business every day. So what was your plan or"
  },
  {
    "start": 809.94,
    "end": 818.04,
    "text": "how did you do the transition there to your new framework? So transition is actually happening,"
  },
  {
    "start": 818.42,
    "end": 825.44,
    "text": "because first we had to say one thing, selecting the framework. Because at some point we kind of"
  },
  {
    "start": 825.24,
    "end": 831.339,
    "text": "all expected that Playwright may be the framework that will win. But actually we..."
  },
  {
    "start": 832.56,
    "end": 835.98,
    "text": "I'm not sure if I'm here. Oh yeah, you're connected because I had something that"
  },
  {
    "start": 836.1,
    "end": 842.9,
    "text": "like stopped recording. But I think I'm back. So again, Playwright seemed as possible"
  },
  {
    "start": 843.91,
    "end": 851.62,
    "text": "the best candidate, but actually we didn't know that. We were suspecting it, but you know how it"
  },
  {
    "start": 851.48,
    "end": 858.5,
    "text": "is with that thing. So first thing what happened, we had to look what are we using the Cypress,"
  },
  {
    "start": 858.8,
    "end": 867.24,
    "text": "what are the things that we like about Cypress, what are the things that are not working for us."
  },
  {
    "start": 867.96,
    "end": 873.86,
    "text": "And then from that we went to more generic. What do we want from our end-to-end framework?"
  },
  {
    "start": 873.96,
    "end": 884.82,
    "text": "what is our approach to testing, to create our list of, maybe not goals, but the aspects that are important to us."
  },
  {
    "start": 885.12,
    "end": 893.66,
    "text": "And the next step was looking. There was around, I think, at that point, because it may seem like a small part of time,"
  },
  {
    "start": 893.76,
    "end": 897.78,
    "text": "but we had the first iteration of our goals done in the first quarter."
  },
  {
    "start": 898.28,
    "end": 901.48,
    "text": "Then there were quite a lot of other projects happening."
  },
  {
    "start": 901.72,
    "end": 908.88,
    "text": "So the second quarter of last year, we couldn't do much with that project."
  },
  {
    "start": 909.52,
    "end": 915.4,
    "text": "And around, I think it was July, we started to looking for, you know, the tools."
  },
  {
    "start": 916.16,
    "end": 917.4,
    "text": "We're looking at different tools."
  },
  {
    "start": 917.98,
    "end": 919.8,
    "text": "At that moment, it was mostly statical."
  },
  {
    "start": 919.94,
    "end": 924.18,
    "text": "So we had calls with some companies looking at the tools that are on the market."
  },
  {
    "start": 925.2,
    "end": 930.26,
    "text": "And I'm going to say I was kind of downhearted."
  },
  {
    "start": 931.619,
    "end": 936.06,
    "text": "I spent my lots of my career doing research on tools."
  },
  {
    "start": 936.4,
    "end": 941.66,
    "text": "And when I was in, I can use my company names on your show or I should avoid them."
  },
  {
    "start": 942.0,
    "end": 943.02,
    "text": "Please avoid it."
  },
  {
    "start": 944.26,
    "end": 944.5,
    "text": "Okay."
  },
  {
    "start": 945.699,
    "end": 950.58,
    "text": "So when I was working at a company that is no longer on the name that I was working there,"
  },
  {
    "start": 951.0,
    "end": 955.6,
    "text": "Basically, I was a Guild Leader of this Automation Guild,"
  },
  {
    "start": 955.69,
    "end": 958.18,
    "text": "kind of in the Spotify model,"
  },
  {
    "start": 958.42,
    "end": 961.0,
    "text": "where the Guild is more like a community of practice."
  },
  {
    "start": 961.6,
    "end": 966.04,
    "text": "So, and one of my jobs was actually doing research,"
  },
  {
    "start": 966.26,
    "end": 968.3,
    "text": "what tools are there and what are available."
  },
  {
    "start": 969.12,
    "end": 972.38,
    "text": "And back then I was spending a lot of time on this."
  },
  {
    "start": 972.7,
    "end": 974.42,
    "text": "And that was 2019."
  },
  {
    "start": 976.64,
    "end": 980.26,
    "text": "And when we started doing it in 2024,"
  },
  {
    "start": 980.76,
    "end": 983.66,
    "text": "It was like nothing has changed."
  },
  {
    "start": 984.6,
    "end": 985.84,
    "text": "There is nothing new."
  },
  {
    "start": 986.7,
    "end": 989.52,
    "text": "Kind of last big thing that came to the market was play right,"
  },
  {
    "start": 990.06,
    "end": 994.92,
    "text": "which was at the beginning of pandemic and lots of things"
  },
  {
    "start": 995.04,
    "end": 998.3,
    "text": "that were at that time looking like promising thing"
  },
  {
    "start": 998.64,
    "end": 1002.06,
    "text": "a third diet or change in the competition, think as."
  },
  {
    "start": 1003.22,
    "end": 1006.6,
    "text": "And that was kind of that kind of broke my heart"
  },
  {
    "start": 1006.78,
    "end": 1009.46,
    "text": "because I was expecting to see such much progress."
  },
  {
    "start": 1009.96,
    "end": 1013.78,
    "text": "If you asked me if I was doing a set of predictions five years ago,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1014.1,
    "end": 1018.74,
    "text": "I was expecting that lots of tools that are record and play right now,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1018.96,
    "end": 1021.68,
    "text": "they will be the big part of our market."
  },
  {
    "start": 1021.98,
    "end": 1025.04,
    "text": "That most small companies or even big companies"
  },
  {
    "start": 1025.18,
    "end": 1028.56,
    "text": "for the fast development, they won't be doing coded development,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1028.74,
    "end": 1031.56,
    "text": "they will be using record and play tools."
  },
  {
    "start": 1032.24,
    "end": 1034.62,
    "text": "But there are tools like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1034.68,
    "end": 1037.839,
    "text": "Yes, there is Test Team, there is Map, there is Polish Backpack.io,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1038.86,
    "end": 1040.56,
    "text": "but they all are very limited."
  },
  {
    "start": 1041.16,
    "end": 1044.22,
    "text": "And you have to have very specific needs"
  },
  {
    "start": 1045.079,
    "end": 1048.68,
    "text": "to be able to use that kind of tools in your process."
  },
  {
    "start": 1049.34,
    "end": 1053.32,
    "text": "So we kind of spent some time on the research."
  },
  {
    "start": 1053.34,
    "end": 1057.06,
    "text": "We had big table with different aspects we were checking,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1057.14,
    "end": 1057.94,
    "text": "which spend what."
  },
  {
    "start": 1058.4,
    "end": 1059.78,
    "text": "We were giving them points."
  },
  {
    "start": 1060.06,
    "end": 1065.44,
    "text": "Some criteria were much more point-worthy, others less."
  },
  {
    "start": 1065.9,
    "end": 1070.76,
    "text": "And we have to select something like, I think, seven tools at the end"
  },
  {
    "start": 1070.92,
    "end": 1074.6,
    "text": "that we decided to go into, you know, actual hackathon."
  },
  {
    "start": 1074.86,
    "end": 1078.3,
    "text": "Actually, you know, not just looking statically what they have on the page,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1078.38,
    "end": 1083.54,
    "text": "what are their demos, but actually doing proof of concept on our site."
  },
  {
    "start": 1084.64,
    "end": 1090.62,
    "text": "And I think that was, I don't have the timeline next to me, so I cannot just check."
  },
  {
    "start": 1091.02,
    "end": 1099.18,
    "text": "But I think around September, we, as the quality engineers, with help of interested parties,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1099.3,
    "end": 1104.88,
    "text": "few backend developers, frontend developers, decided to finally go,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1105.7,
    "end": 1110.02,
    "text": "to finally we had time to do the actual experimentation of the tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 1112.6,
    "end": 1119.019,
    "text": "And as you can expect, Playwright basically left everything else in the dust. I'm not gonna use"
  },
  {
    "start": 1119.02,
    "end": 1125.12,
    "text": "the names of the tools. But one of the coded tools that I was actually, because we had"
  },
  {
    "start": 1125.6,
    "end": 1131.2,
    "text": "more people than tools, and some tools have few people doing them. One tool was done by me and"
  },
  {
    "start": 1131.32,
    "end": 1136.02,
    "text": "some backend developer that he is, well, he is backend developer, but he knows frontend other"
  },
  {
    "start": 1136.16,
    "end": 1142.379,
    "text": "stuff. And we both couldn't set up one test. We actually spent whole day and we couldn't make"
  },
  {
    "start": 1142.38,
    "end": 1147.34,
    "text": "a working test, going with the documentation and a quick setup guide."
  },
  {
    "start": 1149.14,
    "end": 1155.34,
    "text": "It was later we found out that they had some big update of the framework, something like"
  },
  {
    "start": 1155.34,
    "end": 1160.58,
    "text": "a few weeks before, but the documentation was so out of date that even trying to, you"
  },
  {
    "start": 1160.58,
    "end": 1167.72,
    "text": "know, we actually had to go to the issues on the GitHub repository to do that kind of"
  },
  {
    "start": 1167.66,
    "end": 1170.5,
    "text": "And that was also already a big no-no for us,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1170.7,
    "end": 1173.16,
    "text": "because if you have to spend your time"
  },
  {
    "start": 1173.48,
    "end": 1176.02,
    "text": "during your daily development of the test"
  },
  {
    "start": 1176.2,
    "end": 1180.78,
    "text": "on basically not finding information on documentation,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1180.96,
    "end": 1184.36,
    "text": "but actually had to dig through the support tickets,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1185.08,
    "end": 1186.02,
    "text": "it's something not right."
  },
  {
    "start": 1186.8,
    "end": 1189.18,
    "text": "But I think the most interesting case for me,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1189.52,
    "end": 1191.38,
    "text": "I kind of mentioned it to you, I think,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1191.48,
    "end": 1193.24,
    "text": "in November when we were on the retreat,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1194.3,
    "end": 1199.56,
    "text": "One of the developers got tool that now had some AI component"
  },
  {
    "start": 1199.76,
    "end": 1200.74,
    "text": "for creating test."
  },
  {
    "start": 1201.84,
    "end": 1205.04,
    "text": "And he basically in the language a la BDD"
  },
  {
    "start": 1205.44,
    "end": 1208.6,
    "text": "had to describe what the test was supposed to do."
  },
  {
    "start": 1208.83,
    "end": 1213.36,
    "text": "So something like go to the homepage, select this category,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1213.86,
    "end": 1217.3,
    "text": "no, select the first product you see on the page,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1218.26,
    "end": 1220.28,
    "text": "add product to cart, buy it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1220.88,
    "end": 1222.56,
    "text": "Basically, because what I forgot to mention,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1223.16,
    "end": 1226.44,
    "text": "we had a list of, I think, 10 tests prepared"
  },
  {
    "start": 1227.18,
    "end": 1230.28,
    "text": "to see how many tests each of us will be able to write"
  },
  {
    "start": 1230.4,
    "end": 1232.22,
    "text": "and to have baseline to compare"
  },
  {
    "start": 1232.32,
    "end": 1233.68,
    "text": "because we don't want everybody"
  },
  {
    "start": 1233.68,
    "end": 1235.28,
    "text": "to write completely different tests."
  },
  {
    "start": 1235.98,
    "end": 1237.08,
    "text": "So we kind of had this one."
  },
  {
    "start": 1238.66,
    "end": 1241.34,
    "text": "And he's showing us, he's calling us in the middle of day"
  },
  {
    "start": 1241.42,
    "end": 1243.24,
    "text": "because he's saying, \"Either I'm too stupid"
  },
  {
    "start": 1243.38,
    "end": 1245.94,
    "text": "or I don't understand what's happening.\""
  },
  {
    "start": 1245.94,
    "end": 1248.2,
    "text": "He show us the script."
  },
  {
    "start": 1248.2,
    "end": 1249.9,
    "text": "He wrote basically, he did copy paste"
  },
  {
    "start": 1250.04,
    "end": 1252.579,
    "text": "of what we had prepared in the words"
  },
  {
    "start": 1252.58,
    "end": 1253.54,
    "text": "for that system to write."
  },
  {
    "start": 1254.34,
    "end": 1257.6,
    "text": "And that tool decided to scan our page."
  },
  {
    "start": 1257.82,
    "end": 1259.56,
    "text": "So we are seeing the recording"
  },
  {
    "start": 1259.74,
    "end": 1261.6,
    "text": "how it's actually automating it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1262.2,
    "end": 1263.44,
    "text": "It went to the homepage,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1264.28,
    "end": 1267.3,
    "text": "then it went to not the product."
  },
  {
    "start": 1267.41,
    "end": 1269.72,
    "text": "You had thousands of our products on the homepage"
  },
  {
    "start": 1269.84,
    "end": 1272.18,
    "text": "because we have the presentation"
  },
  {
    "start": 1272.25,
    "end": 1274.2,
    "text": "of different plates that you can buy."
  },
  {
    "start": 1274.86,
    "end": 1277.46,
    "text": "It went to some of our menus,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1277.82,
    "end": 1278.86,
    "text": "went to some collection,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1279.26,
    "end": 1280.64,
    "text": "then went to another collection,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1280.92,
    "end": 1282.08,
    "text": "then to another collection,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1282.54,
    "end": 1283.66,
    "text": "Then to some brand page."
  },
  {
    "start": 1284.16,
    "end": 1287.02,
    "text": "One interesting thing what happened on the way,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1287.72,
    "end": 1289.82,
    "text": "it managed to deal with the pop-up"
  },
  {
    "start": 1289.88,
    "end": 1291.5,
    "text": "because some pop-up about newsletter"
  },
  {
    "start": 1291.52,
    "end": 1292.72,
    "text": "or something else opened"
  },
  {
    "start": 1293.18,
    "end": 1294.6,
    "text": "and it automatically closed it,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1295.14,
    "end": 1297.14,
    "text": "going further into the site."
  },
  {
    "start": 1297.24,
    "end": 1299.36,
    "text": "And finally, after six minutes of clicking,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1299.88,
    "end": 1302.02,
    "text": "it went on the product page,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1302.82,
    "end": 1305.02,
    "text": "it added it and it finally added it to cart."
  },
  {
    "start": 1305.18,
    "end": 1306.56,
    "text": "- Yeah, so it worked."
  },
  {
    "start": 1307.4,
    "end": 1309.5,
    "text": "- Looking at the scenario, you are like,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1311.74,
    "end": 1313.86,
    "text": "There is nothing like this on this tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 1314.52,
    "end": 1318.12,
    "text": "I later talked to someone that actually is using this tool,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1318.22,
    "end": 1320.84,
    "text": "not the AI part, but the base tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 1321.44,
    "end": 1324.4,
    "text": "And he told me that this is something connected"
  },
  {
    "start": 1324.58,
    "end": 1326.92,
    "text": "how they're using something,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1327.34,
    "end": 1330.02,
    "text": "some AI agent like, you know, chat GPT."
  },
  {
    "start": 1330.58,
    "end": 1334.02,
    "text": "And if probably you would try it to do after hour,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1334.14,
    "end": 1336.56,
    "text": "it would generate that test completely differently"
  },
  {
    "start": 1336.84,
    "end": 1340.539,
    "text": "because what is doing is first using apparently those AI"
  },
  {
    "start": 1340.54,
    "end": 1342.16,
    "text": "to create the path."
  },
  {
    "start": 1343.04,
    "end": 1346.34,
    "text": "And if you accept that path, it writes it as,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1347.24,
    "end": 1350.48,
    "text": "I don't remember, I think it was the puppeteer script"
  },
  {
    "start": 1350.6,
    "end": 1352.94,
    "text": "under the hood, but don't quote me on that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1353.52,
    "end": 1357.08,
    "text": "And probably if, until we approve that script,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1357.22,
    "end": 1362.34,
    "text": "if after our would try, the large language model"
  },
  {
    "start": 1362.44,
    "end": 1364.34,
    "text": "that is used for the generation of the test"
  },
  {
    "start": 1364.4,
    "end": 1366.7,
    "text": "probably would generate completely different path for that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1367.66,
    "end": 1372.14,
    "text": "So it sounds very, very interesting hackathon you had on this stage."
  },
  {
    "start": 1374.259,
    "end": 1380.12,
    "text": "Yeah, I'm actually one thing that I wish we had done. We would record that because"
  },
  {
    "start": 1380.76,
    "end": 1385.5,
    "text": "I see it in my own eyes. I even tried to reproduce it later using that tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 1386.04,
    "end": 1388.78,
    "text": "I had different stories connected to that part, but"
  },
  {
    "start": 1389.56,
    "end": 1393.38,
    "text": "I couldn't reproduce it in such a funny way as it was doing it back then."
  },
  {
    "start": 1393.66,
    "end": 1400.54,
    "text": "Yeah, yeah. So it's very interesting to hear that you did such a day with all your QA guys"
  },
  {
    "start": 1400.6,
    "end": 1406.06,
    "text": "and development guys to make, to choose from these tools for test automation framework, because"
  },
  {
    "start": 1406.46,
    "end": 1414.24,
    "text": "the choosing a tool is always a hard thing and to do it with real, your test cases with 10 scenarios"
  },
  {
    "start": 1414.52,
    "end": 1420.96,
    "text": "and try it in different tools on one day is, I think, a very, very smart way to check if the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1420.78,
    "end": 1422.22,
    "text": "the tool fits your requirements."
  },
  {
    "start": 1422.22,
    "end": 1424.5,
    "text": "- But you know, what is the worst part about it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1425.32,
    "end": 1429.32,
    "text": "Then explain to your boss why after doing all this research"
  },
  {
    "start": 1429.36,
    "end": 1432.1,
    "text": "you choose still the tool that is the most popular tool"
  },
  {
    "start": 1432.5,
    "end": 1434.32,
    "text": "and was the obvious choice from the beginning."
  },
  {
    "start": 1434.86,
    "end": 1437.1,
    "text": "- Yeah, but then you have the proof, yeah?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1437.74,
    "end": 1438.76,
    "text": "- Yes, yes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1440.1,
    "end": 1443.04,
    "text": "And of course, to make it even fun,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1443.08,
    "end": 1444.26,
    "text": "we did lots of research."
  },
  {
    "start": 1444.36,
    "end": 1446.52,
    "text": "We actually checked lots of different things"
  },
  {
    "start": 1446.72,
    "end": 1448.419,
    "text": "about Playwright and"
  },
  {
    "start": 1450.5,
    "end": 1453.84,
    "text": "I'm going to tell also the story about how Playwright performed"
  },
  {
    "start": 1454.12,
    "end": 1457.9,
    "text": "at that workshop, because it kind of went a very good pairing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1458.26,
    "end": 1462.14,
    "text": "Our developer that is currently our expert on using AI"
  },
  {
    "start": 1462.46,
    "end": 1467.74,
    "text": "to write code, he's even doing internal trainings for us."
  },
  {
    "start": 1467.96,
    "end": 1470.82,
    "text": "And he was playing with the cursor"
  },
  {
    "start": 1471.22,
    "end": 1474.84,
    "text": "and using the also Playwright--"
  },
  {
    "start": 1474.88,
    "end": 1476.74,
    "text": "just now I'm blanking on the name."
  },
  {
    "start": 1477.08,
    "end": 1479.659,
    "text": "I think it's called Inspector for doing the record"
  },
  {
    "start": 1479.66,
    "end": 1483.84,
    "text": "and play to record the test and is generating a code."
  },
  {
    "start": 1484.78,
    "end": 1490.08,
    "text": "He actually managed to write all the 10 cases"
  },
  {
    "start": 1490.44,
    "end": 1493.72,
    "text": "and stabilize them to be actually stable"
  },
  {
    "start": 1494.86,
    "end": 1496.54,
    "text": "during the hackathon."
  },
  {
    "start": 1496.76,
    "end": 1497.92,
    "text": "- Okay, great, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1498.04,
    "end": 1501.3,
    "text": "- For comparison, only person that was able"
  },
  {
    "start": 1501.3,
    "end": 1503.98,
    "text": "to also do the 10 tests was someone"
  },
  {
    "start": 1504.2,
    "end": 1506.76,
    "text": "that was doing strict record and play to."
  },
  {
    "start": 1507.18,
    "end": 1510.98,
    "text": "So actually it was far away the best tool"
  },
  {
    "start": 1511.14,
    "end": 1513.28,
    "text": "and the best results."
  },
  {
    "start": 1513.44,
    "end": 1517.84,
    "text": "And it was, I think in hands of different person,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1518.06,
    "end": 1520.14,
    "text": "it wouldn't went so well because you know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1520.26,
    "end": 1523.4,
    "text": "this is the kind of problem with the such small sample size,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1524.18,
    "end": 1527.3,
    "text": "but it also was showing the potential of the playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 1528.02,
    "end": 1530.16,
    "text": "Of course, what is worth mentioning it,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1530.92,
    "end": 1532.94,
    "text": "those tests generated back then"
  },
  {
    "start": 1533.72,
    "end": 1535.48,
    "text": "wasn't what you would call might enable."
  },
  {
    "start": 1535.62,
    "end": 1539.14,
    "text": "So if something changed, probably you would have to basically"
  },
  {
    "start": 1539.4,
    "end": 1542.46,
    "text": "record the whole test again, similarly how you do it"
  },
  {
    "start": 1542.48,
    "end": 1545.94,
    "text": "with record on play, because the code wasn't done"
  },
  {
    "start": 1546.04,
    "end": 1546.96,
    "text": "as a very meta-enabled."
  },
  {
    "start": 1547.08,
    "end": 1549.24,
    "text": "It was basically done to show it's possible."
  },
  {
    "start": 1549.56,
    "end": 1550.64,
    "text": "- Mm-hmm, that sounds good."
  },
  {
    "start": 1550.9,
    "end": 1554.92,
    "text": "Did all the guys who did this challenge with you,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1555.02,
    "end": 1558.4,
    "text": "this hackathon, follow this decision with Playwright,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1558.6,
    "end": 1560.22,
    "text": "or was there a hard discussion"
  },
  {
    "start": 1560.44,
    "end": 1562.38,
    "text": "because someone wanted his tool?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1562.38,
    "end": 1570.28,
    "text": "Actually, there were a few tools that were performing quite well, but at the end of the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1570.28,
    "end": 1573.9,
    "text": "day we were doing a demo, that basically everybody was showing what they were using, what is"
  },
  {
    "start": 1573.98,
    "end": 1574.38,
    "text": "their opinion."
  },
  {
    "start": 1575.26,
    "end": 1582.06,
    "text": "After seeing the Playwright in action, it was quite clear that there are a few good"
  },
  {
    "start": 1582.14,
    "end": 1586.14,
    "text": "options, but nothing that will compete with Playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 1586.18,
    "end": 1587.02,
    "text": "Yeah, I understand."
  },
  {
    "start": 1588.42,
    "end": 1594.22,
    "text": "So you decided to go to Playwright, and now you have your big repository on old test cases"
  },
  {
    "start": 1594.28,
    "end": 1594.74,
    "text": "in Cypress."
  },
  {
    "start": 1594.96,
    "end": 1599.92,
    "text": "And now, what was your strategy to go to the new framework?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1601.36,
    "end": 1606.54,
    "text": "The actual strategy is, I need to go a little with our approach to end-to-end tests."
  },
  {
    "start": 1607.04,
    "end": 1612.46,
    "text": "We have something that is called, we have our full regression that is running, not nightly,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1612.58,
    "end": 1614.44,
    "text": "it's running a few times a day, basically."
  },
  {
    "start": 1614.9,
    "end": 1619.86,
    "text": "running at the start of the day, at the middle of the day,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1620.02,
    "end": 1622.74,
    "text": "and basically at the evening, because we kind of"
  },
  {
    "start": 1623.24,
    "end": 1625.12,
    "text": "want to get some good information what"
  },
  {
    "start": 1625.12,
    "end": 1628.02,
    "text": "is happening during changes done by developers."
  },
  {
    "start": 1628.4,
    "end": 1631.12,
    "text": "Because full regression has a lot of tests"
  },
  {
    "start": 1631.38,
    "end": 1635.9,
    "text": "that if something will be broken for a few hours, in our case,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1636.0,
    "end": 1638.86,
    "text": "those tests are not like something that will kill us."
  },
  {
    "start": 1639.9,
    "end": 1642.76,
    "text": "It's good for fixing them as soon as possible,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1642.9,
    "end": 1645.26,
    "text": "but it's not critical."
  },
  {
    "start": 1646.0,
    "end": 1648.18,
    "text": "We have the smoked suit that is running"
  },
  {
    "start": 1648.26,
    "end": 1649.26,
    "text": "after every deployment."
  },
  {
    "start": 1650.04,
    "end": 1653.36,
    "text": "And this suit is something that actually,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1653.56,
    "end": 1656.7,
    "text": "if it finds bugs, usually it's something that means"
  },
  {
    "start": 1656.9,
    "end": 1658.24,
    "text": "either you are fixing it right now"
  },
  {
    "start": 1658.4,
    "end": 1659.48,
    "text": "or it should be rolled back."
  },
  {
    "start": 1660.22,
    "end": 1662.42,
    "text": "So actually the properly critical thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1662.94,
    "end": 1664.96,
    "text": "And we have something that we call top 10."
  },
  {
    "start": 1665.16,
    "end": 1668.82,
    "text": "Those are the 10 most critical paths in our system."
  },
  {
    "start": 1669.02,
    "end": 1670.98,
    "text": "Those are the money makers."
  },
  {
    "start": 1671.14,
    "end": 1673.06,
    "text": "The thing is that something is broken there,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1673.54,
    "end": 1676.14,
    "text": "basically drop everything and go fix it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1676.34,
    "end": 1678.84,
    "text": "And those are running regularly"
  },
  {
    "start": 1678.84,
    "end": 1680.2,
    "text": "on our production environment."
  },
  {
    "start": 1680.36,
    "end": 1684.06,
    "text": "Something like during the high season, like Black Friday,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1684.4,
    "end": 1686.72,
    "text": "so when there is lots of money to be made,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1687.1,
    "end": 1688.74,
    "text": "they are running every 10 minutes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1689.32,
    "end": 1690.78,
    "text": "In outside of high season,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1690.85,
    "end": 1692.48,
    "text": "they are running every half hour."
  },
  {
    "start": 1694.34,
    "end": 1696.72,
    "text": "And we decided to start with those"
  },
  {
    "start": 1696.98,
    "end": 1699.18,
    "text": "because those are the tests that need to be the fastest."
  },
  {
    "start": 1699.9,
    "end": 1703.02,
    "text": "Those are usually not the easiest test to write,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1703.26,
    "end": 1708.04,
    "text": "but they are also kind of vertical slice of our system."
  },
  {
    "start": 1708.46,
    "end": 1711.82,
    "text": "So, the first thing what is currently happening,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1712.02,
    "end": 1713.08,
    "text": "because we haven't finished it,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1713.25,
    "end": 1715.98,
    "text": "the goal was to finish it until the end of December,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1716.26,
    "end": 1718.48,
    "text": "but due to a few problems, we didn't manage it,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1720.28,
    "end": 1727.02,
    "text": "was actually the movement of those tests to the playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 1728.1,
    "end": 1732.68,
    "text": "The plan was it's kind of evolving, but move those tests."
  },
  {
    "start": 1732.94,
    "end": 1741.26,
    "text": "Set up is it as the main test that are running every 10 minutes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1741.9,
    "end": 1745.62,
    "text": "And then as the new functionality will be coming,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1745.82,
    "end": 1748.04,
    "text": "we'll be writing the test just in Playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 1748.6,
    "end": 1751.42,
    "text": "And in the meantime, we'll be slowly moving all the tests."
  },
  {
    "start": 1751.62,
    "end": 1754.04,
    "text": "So if something will be broken in Cypress,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1754.67,
    "end": 1757.18,
    "text": "if it's a small thing like change of locator,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1757.92,
    "end": 1759.84,
    "text": "you will be fixing it in the side press."
  },
  {
    "start": 1760.46,
    "end": 1762.8,
    "text": "But if it will be, you know, like change of logic,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1763.18,
    "end": 1765.8,
    "text": "the proper way is to move the test to play right."
  },
  {
    "start": 1766.46,
    "end": 1770.24,
    "text": "But we are still not at the stage because the top 10 was,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1770.38,
    "end": 1772.92,
    "text": "I think the last test we are moving finally this week,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1773.63,
    "end": 1774.5,
    "text": "the week of the recording,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1774.66,
    "end": 1776.22,
    "text": "not the week of the premiere of the episode."
  },
  {
    "start": 1778.46,
    "end": 1782.78,
    "text": "So, as you mentioned, we started moving it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1782.96,
    "end": 1785.92,
    "text": "But of course, even after doing all of the research,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1786.76,
    "end": 1788.88,
    "text": "they were coming a lot of surprises to us."
  },
  {
    "start": 1790.9,
    "end": 1794.4,
    "text": "First thing that actually caught us quite off guard"
  },
  {
    "start": 1794.56,
    "end": 1797.0,
    "text": "was the way how the session is managed"
  },
  {
    "start": 1797.48,
    "end": 1802.92,
    "text": "in Cypress versus the Playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 1803.5,
    "end": 1807.92,
    "text": "Because in our case, we have a lot of A/B tests on our site."
  },
  {
    "start": 1808.6,
    "end": 1810.92,
    "text": "And we have a lot of additional thing"
  },
  {
    "start": 1811.02,
    "end": 1814.08,
    "text": "that we are keeping in local storage, session storage,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1814.08,
    "end": 1815.7,
    "text": "and cache and the cookies."
  },
  {
    "start": 1816.48,
    "end": 1818.98,
    "text": "So there is a lot of things that we need to set up"
  },
  {
    "start": 1819.12,
    "end": 1820.38,
    "text": "for our test to work."
  },
  {
    "start": 1821.56,
    "end": 1823.7,
    "text": "Because again, we are doing lots of testing"
  },
  {
    "start": 1823.76,
    "end": 1827.72,
    "text": "on the production, not only the test environments,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1827.94,
    "end": 1828.74,
    "text": "but also on production."
  },
  {
    "start": 1828.92,
    "end": 1832.02,
    "text": "I am big fan of the saying that I don't remember"
  },
  {
    "start": 1832.08,
    "end": 1835.8,
    "text": "who told me that, but there is no second testing"
  },
  {
    "start": 1836.06,
    "end": 1837.94,
    "text": "environment such close to production"
  },
  {
    "start": 1838.1,
    "end": 1839.02,
    "text": "like production itself."
  },
  {
    "start": 1839.52,
    "end": 1840.0,
    "text": "(laughing)"
  },
  {
    "start": 1841.36,
    "end": 1841.56,
    "text": "- Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1843.0,
    "end": 1845.919,
    "text": "- Yeah, so basically if something can be tested"
  },
  {
    "start": 1845.92,
    "end": 1849.96,
    "text": "on production and it's not risk to break something"
  },
  {
    "start": 1849.96,
    "end": 1851.04,
    "text": "for thousands of users,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1851.62,
    "end": 1853.48,
    "text": "I'm usually fine of testing it on production."
  },
  {
    "start": 1855.56,
    "end": 1860.32,
    "text": "So since that, we had to set up our test"
  },
  {
    "start": 1860.37,
    "end": 1865.8,
    "text": "to actually first cut off the analytical cookies"
  },
  {
    "start": 1865.92,
    "end": 1868.64,
    "text": "because if we don't want to do that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1869.2,
    "end": 1875.9,
    "text": "this means that our test will be actually collected"
  },
  {
    "start": 1875.9,
    "end": 1883.26,
    "text": "data. It was even a funny story. I think that I don't have that plate behind me. There was"
  },
  {
    "start": 1883.36,
    "end": 1891.5,
    "text": "one plate for semi-popular author on our site that one of our testers very liked. So, it"
  },
  {
    "start": 1891.56,
    "end": 1897.66,
    "text": "was used in a lot of tests that we're doing. So, you could imagine that daily our automation"
  },
  {
    "start": 1897.98,
    "end": 1905.5,
    "text": "could go on that page, I think maybe hundreds, if not thousands of times. And being in the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1905.26,
    "end": 1909.06,
    "text": "In the kitchen one time I'm hearing that maybe they should go to that guy,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1909.96,
    "end": 1915.86,
    "text": "talk about some promo because a lot of people are visiting his pages and not buying it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1917.08,
    "end": 1917.22,
    "text": "Okay."
  },
  {
    "start": 1917.52,
    "end": 1920.34,
    "text": "Because, you know, in stats we were showing that we were going to that page."
  },
  {
    "start": 1920.34,
    "end": 1920.78,
    "text": "Yeah, great."
  },
  {
    "start": 1920.86,
    "end": 1928.24,
    "text": "So, again, this is old story when we were still figuring out where we should be informing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1928.46,
    "end": 1933.52,
    "text": "what information should be in the test to, you know, to not affect our sales data and that kind of stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 1936.0,
    "end": 1938.42,
    "text": "But now we have this information."
  },
  {
    "start": 1938.42,
    "end": 1940.7,
    "text": "We have this all figured out in Cypress."
  },
  {
    "start": 1941.58,
    "end": 1944.22,
    "text": "Now it's time to figure out in Playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 1945.5,
    "end": 1949.16,
    "text": "It starts to be fun because at some point,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1949.24,
    "end": 1951.8,
    "text": "nobody realized that, wait,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1952.0,
    "end": 1955.4,
    "text": "but Cypress has very good ways"
  },
  {
    "start": 1955.4,
    "end": 1958.24,
    "text": "of doing the interception of the API request,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1958.44,
    "end": 1960.2,
    "text": "because we are doing lots of things with"
  },
  {
    "start": 1960.04,
    "end": 1963.3,
    "text": "the API request for set up and copy cookie"
  },
  {
    "start": 1963.96,
    "end": 1964.66,
    "text": "and that kind of stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 1964.88,
    "end": 1967.12,
    "text": "Cypress playwright also has the options for that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1967.64,
    "end": 1970.84,
    "text": "But actually I think the way how it was done in Cypress"
  },
  {
    "start": 1971.44,
    "end": 1974.84,
    "text": "was basically much better because in Cypress,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1974.84,
    "end": 1977.6,
    "text": "we had, I think maybe two liner for, you know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1977.68,
    "end": 1979.88,
    "text": "intercepting the cookie, not the cookie,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1980.16,
    "end": 1984.88,
    "text": "the request with the, let's say authorization."
  },
  {
    "start": 1985.02,
    "end": 1987.18,
    "text": "It wasn't authorization, but let's say for sure"
  },
  {
    "start": 1987.36,
    "end": 1988.24,
    "text": "it was authorization."
  },
  {
    "start": 1988.92,
    "end": 1990.9,
    "text": "And in case of the playwright,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1991.22,
    "end": 1992.8,
    "text": "actually we had to spend some time"
  },
  {
    "start": 1993.0,
    "end": 1994.7,
    "text": "looking at the different documentation,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1994.96,
    "end": 1995.92,
    "text": "the different suggestions,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1996.68,
    "end": 1999.26,
    "text": "how to properly set up the way how we're handling"
  },
  {
    "start": 1999.5,
    "end": 2003.02,
    "text": "the setup of both the requests,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2003.38,
    "end": 2008.28,
    "text": "how to properly set up the, oh yeah, block hosts."
  },
  {
    "start": 2009.299,
    "end": 2012.52,
    "text": "Because in Cypress, it's easy."
  },
  {
    "start": 2012.52,
    "end": 2015.34,
    "text": "You have basically in the config option block host"
  },
  {
    "start": 2015.84,
    "end": 2017.36,
    "text": "and all those hosts are blocked."
  },
  {
    "start": 2019.039,
    "end": 2022.56,
    "text": "In a playwright, as far as we know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2022.7,
    "end": 2024.74,
    "text": "there is option that we basically missed something."
  },
  {
    "start": 2025.86,
    "end": 2026.96,
    "text": "Doesn't have such functionality."
  },
  {
    "start": 2027.08,
    "end": 2028.8,
    "text": "We had to write it on our own."
  },
  {
    "start": 2028.86,
    "end": 2032.82,
    "text": "So we had to find how to properly intercept the request"
  },
  {
    "start": 2032.92,
    "end": 2035.38,
    "text": "and how to do it in the way that it would be always"
  },
  {
    "start": 2035.58,
    "end": 2036.36,
    "text": "the working there."
  },
  {
    "start": 2036.38,
    "end": 2037.88,
    "text": "So we have some mechanics for that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2038.34,
    "end": 2043.299,
    "text": "but it was like, it wasn't even in our spreadsheet"
  },
  {
    "start": 2045.88,
    "end": 2047.66,
    "text": "of things that the framework should have."
  },
  {
    "start": 2047.88,
    "end": 2050.28,
    "text": "Because we assumed that if we have,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2050.44,
    "end": 2051.86,
    "text": "it can handle the requests,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2052.25,
    "end": 2054.0,
    "text": "it will be able to handle that kind of thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 2054.12,
    "end": 2056.84,
    "text": "So it wasn't a separate position in this."
  },
  {
    "start": 2057.639,
    "end": 2061.96,
    "text": "And that was kind of thing that we are still visiting"
  },
  {
    "start": 2062.179,
    "end": 2064.36,
    "text": "because you have one thing like that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2064.56,
    "end": 2066.0,
    "text": "then you coming another thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 2066.8,
    "end": 2072.5,
    "text": "And then something that actually was for me very funny,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2074.72,
    "end": 2080.879,
    "text": "old tests, because lots of tests were written a long ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 2081.179,
    "end": 2082.94,
    "text": "I think one of the tests that we're moving,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2083.96,
    "end": 2086.46,
    "text": "it's older than I was in the company."
  },
  {
    "start": 2088.119,
    "end": 2092.52,
    "text": "And at start, we had that decision made,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2092.659,
    "end": 2093.54,
    "text": "but it was forgotten."
  },
  {
    "start": 2094.24,
    "end": 2098.74,
    "text": "We tried to rewrite the test, so we wasn't doing it one to one."
  },
  {
    "start": 2099.16,
    "end": 2102.02,
    "text": "So we are looking at the logic, but we shouldn't"
  },
  {
    "start": 2102.02,
    "end": 2103.28,
    "text": "be taking much of the code."
  },
  {
    "start": 2103.36,
    "end": 2105.44,
    "text": "But at some point it was lost."
  },
  {
    "start": 2106.42,
    "end": 2108.12,
    "text": "And people were trying to, you know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2108.24,
    "end": 2110.84,
    "text": "kind of rewrite Cypress code in play, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2111.24,
    "end": 2112.84,
    "text": "So it's like trying to put, you know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2112.96,
    "end": 2114.58,
    "text": "the square back into circles."
  },
  {
    "start": 2114.98,
    "end": 2119.78,
    "text": "So this is, I'm not gonna say"
  },
  {
    "start": 2119.88,
    "end": 2121.64,
    "text": "that it's kind of fault of anyone."
  },
  {
    "start": 2121.78,
    "end": 2123.78,
    "text": "This is, you know, just basically standard work"
  },
  {
    "start": 2123.8,
    "end": 2126.08,
    "text": "in the pressure, the deadline is coming,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2126.56,
    "end": 2127.94,
    "text": "you're starting to, you know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2128.12,
    "end": 2130.08,
    "text": "to think differently about stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 2130.44,
    "end": 2133.34,
    "text": "You still are not fully trained in the new tool"
  },
  {
    "start": 2133.34,
    "end": 2136.58,
    "text": "because we did some training, but you know how it is."
  },
  {
    "start": 2136.7,
    "end": 2138.4,
    "text": "You still are learning how to use."
  },
  {
    "start": 2138.58,
    "end": 2141.44,
    "text": "So a lot of that kind of stuff is coming."
  },
  {
    "start": 2141.6,
    "end": 2144.34,
    "text": "The way how it's called,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2146.32,
    "end": 2148.82,
    "text": "the data management is done,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2149.02,
    "end": 2151.18,
    "text": "a lot of that kind of stuff that you think,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2151.62,
    "end": 2153.6,
    "text": "all frameworks are doing it kind of the same."
  },
  {
    "start": 2153.84,
    "end": 2155.68,
    "text": "No, they are not doing it the same."
  },
  {
    "start": 2157.06,
    "end": 2157.5,
    "text": "(laughing)"
  },
  {
    "start": 2158.4,
    "end": 2159.08,
    "text": "- Yeah, I understand."
  },
  {
    "start": 2159.52,
    "end": 2164.62,
    "text": "Yeah, so you're dealing with some surprises on your transition way."
  },
  {
    "start": 2165.34,
    "end": 2166.96,
    "text": "But what is your strategy?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2167.66,
    "end": 2175.48,
    "text": "So if you, I think before you started the transition, all your test automation engineers"
  },
  {
    "start": 2175.56,
    "end": 2178.6,
    "text": "had a lot of work to do anywhere the whole day."
  },
  {
    "start": 2179.04,
    "end": 2184.28,
    "text": "So how do you deal with creating new test cases and make a transition of the old ones?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2184.7,
    "end": 2185.72,
    "text": "How do you deal with that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2187.08,
    "end": 2189.98,
    "text": "Actually, we were kind of happy."
  },
  {
    "start": 2190.44,
    "end": 2194.26,
    "text": "The reason why we decided to use most of December"
  },
  {
    "start": 2194.46,
    "end": 2197.08,
    "text": "for moving the tests, for doing the setup of the top 10"
  },
  {
    "start": 2197.34,
    "end": 2200.24,
    "text": "is that it's holiday season."
  },
  {
    "start": 2201.339,
    "end": 2206.08,
    "text": "For us, it means that there wasn't as much feature development"
  },
  {
    "start": 2206.32,
    "end": 2206.84,
    "text": "in component."
  },
  {
    "start": 2206.98,
    "end": 2209.66,
    "text": "There was a lot of cleaning, a lot of doing that kind of stuff"
  },
  {
    "start": 2210.08,
    "end": 2213.6,
    "text": "because as with every e-commerce,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2214.08,
    "end": 2220.1,
    "text": "kind of moment from a few weeks before the Black Friday to kind of Christmas is the moment"
  },
  {
    "start": 2220.2,
    "end": 2226.84,
    "text": "that the companies are doing most of money. So you don't want to put on to put any big"
  },
  {
    "start": 2226.96,
    "end": 2233.26,
    "text": "feature outside because you don't want to lose that time window of selling for possible"
  },
  {
    "start": 2233.4,
    "end": 2242.26,
    "text": "issues. So that was one of the thing. Another is basically prioritization. We are a smart"
  },
  {
    "start": 2242.14,
    "end": 2246.34,
    "text": "team, QA-wise, because most of the developers are doing their own testing."
  },
  {
    "start": 2246.72,
    "end": 2249.14,
    "text": "We don't have a tester per team."
  },
  {
    "start": 2249.14,
    "end": 2255.46,
    "text": "We are kind of working in a similar way to DevOps team, that we are a platform"
  },
  {
    "start": 2255.58,
    "end": 2257.46,
    "text": "team that is giving support."
  },
  {
    "start": 2257.68,
    "end": 2263.98,
    "text": "We're doing research into, for example, how to test payments in different markets,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2264.2,
    "end": 2270.5,
    "text": "because let's say we are going to start using some payment method in America,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2270.78,
    "end": 2273.98,
    "text": "and the team has no idea how to test that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2274.1,
    "end": 2278.2,
    "text": "So usually they come to us and A, figure out how we can test that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2278.3,
    "end": 2281.5,
    "text": "Or they come to us A, the situation is like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2281.54,
    "end": 2284.46,
    "text": "We have no idea how to make sure this will be tested."
  },
  {
    "start": 2287.02,
    "end": 2289.64,
    "text": "And that's why we kind of have more,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2290.1,
    "end": 2293.3,
    "text": "we have the time to do that kind of maintenance stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 2293.52,
    "end": 2294.96,
    "text": "But it depends."
  },
  {
    "start": 2295.1,
    "end": 2297.94,
    "text": "I'm already seeing the roadmap for the next few months."
  },
  {
    "start": 2298.1,
    "end": 2302.74,
    "text": "I would expect that probably in February, March,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2302.88,
    "end": 2304.76,
    "text": "there won't be much time on the automation."
  },
  {
    "start": 2306.0,
    "end": 2308.02,
    "text": "Right now, we're kind of doing rotation,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2308.2,
    "end": 2310.34,
    "text": "that two people are supporting teams with their issue."
  },
  {
    "start": 2310.5,
    "end": 2312.58,
    "text": "One is writing automation and we're doing rotation"
  },
  {
    "start": 2312.72,
    "end": 2315.34,
    "text": "that everybody can do some automation tasks."
  },
  {
    "start": 2316.08,
    "end": 2319.36,
    "text": "But I don't think it will be possible for the February and March."
  },
  {
    "start": 2319.48,
    "end": 2322.32,
    "text": "Right now, I'm kind of trying to, you know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2322.34,
    "end": 2329.02,
    "text": "still working at the team capacity, have some for that task."
  },
  {
    "start": 2329.64,
    "end": 2332.12,
    "text": "But we will be seeing how it actually will be working."
  },
  {
    "start": 2333.8,
    "end": 2339.14,
    "text": "So my strategy is kind of looking at the backlog and having some capacity frozen for that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2339.26,
    "end": 2340.64,
    "text": "Yes, yes, that's great."
  },
  {
    "start": 2341.52,
    "end": 2344.7,
    "text": "And if you look at the upcoming year 2025,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2345.57,
    "end": 2349.98,
    "text": "do you think you will manage the whole transition this year?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2349.98,
    "end": 2355.4,
    "text": "or is it not possible or is it just not relevant for you"
  },
  {
    "start": 2355.62,
    "end": 2358.1,
    "text": "because it goes like it goes in the flow?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2361.82,
    "end": 2363.84,
    "text": "- Actually, that is very hard question."
  },
  {
    "start": 2363.98,
    "end": 2367.52,
    "text": "Personally, I would hope we will manage to move"
  },
  {
    "start": 2367.54,
    "end": 2371.9,
    "text": "most tests in 2025 to play that"
  },
  {
    "start": 2372.0,
    "end": 2376.9,
    "text": "because what actually was supposed to happen last year"
  },
  {
    "start": 2376.98,
    "end": 2382.72,
    "text": "but didn't because we knew we will be leaving Cypress is get more front-end developer into"
  },
  {
    "start": 2382.84,
    "end": 2388.16,
    "text": "test automation. It's actually happening with Playwright right now. Developers are participating"
  },
  {
    "start": 2388.38,
    "end": 2395.34,
    "text": "in the pull requests. Until we finish, you know, stabilization, the top 10, we don't want them to"
  },
  {
    "start": 2396.02,
    "end": 2402.14,
    "text": "write tests yet, but we will be planning to give them ability to write, maintain their own tests."
  },
  {
    "start": 2402.26,
    "end": 2405.66,
    "text": "So that will be also fascinating for us."
  },
  {
    "start": 2407.76,
    "end": 2409.4,
    "text": "But-- and this is giving me hope."
  },
  {
    "start": 2409.4,
    "end": 2411.22,
    "text": "The other thing that is giving me hope"
  },
  {
    "start": 2412.34,
    "end": 2415.8,
    "text": "is an experiment done also by that developer"
  },
  {
    "start": 2415.86,
    "end": 2416.88,
    "text": "I mentioned before."
  },
  {
    "start": 2417.22,
    "end": 2421.64,
    "text": "He did an experiment that it's still not working properly,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2421.94,
    "end": 2424.64,
    "text": "but with some maybe a few more tries"
  },
  {
    "start": 2424.7,
    "end": 2430.3,
    "text": "it will be using the cursor, which is the IDE"
  },
  {
    "start": 2430.3,
    "end": 2435.2,
    "text": "with built-in AI for translating tests from Cypress to Playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 2438.559,
    "end": 2442.46,
    "text": "And he did a few examples on his own."
  },
  {
    "start": 2442.84,
    "end": 2445.8,
    "text": "Those were great, but when he wanted to do the demo for us,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2446.11,
    "end": 2447.0,
    "text": "it didn't work."
  },
  {
    "start": 2447.01,
    "end": 2449.22,
    "text": "It actually on the demo, as you know, didn't work."
  },
  {
    "start": 2450.7,
    "end": 2452.46,
    "text": "But I'm seeing the potential there."
  },
  {
    "start": 2453.14,
    "end": 2456.1,
    "text": "Maybe it's either we need to create better prompts"
  },
  {
    "start": 2456.36,
    "end": 2458.04,
    "text": "or something else."
  },
  {
    "start": 2458.2,
    "end": 2462.66,
    "text": "but basically what he did, he took our Cypress repo,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2462.84,
    "end": 2464.86,
    "text": "do copy paste inside the Playwright repo,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2465.54,
    "end": 2468.76,
    "text": "and then he told to discuss it with the AI agent."
  },
  {
    "start": 2469.1,
    "end": 2471.6,
    "text": "So this is the Cypress repo, this is documentation,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2472.28,
    "end": 2473.92,
    "text": "here is the part that is Playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 2474.38,
    "end": 2476.9,
    "text": "And now I want you to help me,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2477.18,
    "end": 2478.16,
    "text": "the test is for example,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2478.44,
    "end": 2480.7,
    "text": "homepage smoke test or something like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2481.18,
    "end": 2483.54,
    "text": "And I want you to create for me"
  },
  {
    "start": 2484.36,
    "end": 2486.06,
    "text": "the version of the test in Playwright."
  },
  {
    "start": 2487.88,
    "end": 2492.02,
    "text": "And after a few tries, it managed to do something that actually worked."
  },
  {
    "start": 2493.06,
    "end": 2496.22,
    "text": "My problem with it is I'm still not convinced"
  },
  {
    "start": 2496.38,
    "end": 2498.18,
    "text": "about maintainability of the test,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2499.02,
    "end": 2503.52,
    "text": "but I'm seeing it more as we learn probably more"
  },
  {
    "start": 2503.66,
    "end": 2506.52,
    "text": "the ability of cursor as the whole team."
  },
  {
    "start": 2507.06,
    "end": 2510.24,
    "text": "I'm expecting that the speed of writing those tests will go faster."
  },
  {
    "start": 2511.2,
    "end": 2515.319,
    "text": "Yeah, great. So maybe we can make a future episode"
  },
  {
    "start": 2515.44,
    "end": 2519.92,
    "text": "about this, about the experience with your final migration"
  },
  {
    "start": 2520.06,
    "end": 2523.14,
    "text": "and transition to Playwright with AI support."
  },
  {
    "start": 2525.04,
    "end": 2527.0,
    "text": "- If you want, I have one interesting tidbit"
  },
  {
    "start": 2527.18,
    "end": 2529.72,
    "text": "because I was playing with the cloud desktop,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2531.7,
    "end": 2534.2,
    "text": "the cloud, you know, the AI agent,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2534.99,
    "end": 2539.12,
    "text": "they did the desktop agent that you can control"
  },
  {
    "start": 2539.16,
    "end": 2541.92,
    "text": "your desktop and I was doing some experimentation"
  },
  {
    "start": 2542.1,
    "end": 2544.48,
    "text": "how to use it to, you know, for test automation."
  },
  {
    "start": 2546.74,
    "end": 2549.3,
    "text": "Okay, so maybe we have a future topic here."
  },
  {
    "start": 2550.76,
    "end": 2554.88,
    "text": "Yeah, Maciej, thank you very much for all these insights."
  },
  {
    "start": 2555.0,
    "end": 2557.96,
    "text": "I think it was a very, very practical hands-on episode."
  },
  {
    "start": 2558.86,
    "end": 2564.62,
    "text": "I think for a lot of test automation engineers out there to get an idea of what to think"
  },
  {
    "start": 2564.66,
    "end": 2570.44,
    "text": "about the hackathon and the transition from one tool to another and your thoughts about"
  },
  {
    "start": 2570.42,
    "end": 2575.2,
    "text": "why you're choosing which tool and why we're leaving that was very interesting for me too."
  },
  {
    "start": 2575.92,
    "end": 2580.7,
    "text": "And yes, I wish you the best for the rest of your transition and for this for this whole year."
  },
  {
    "start": 2580.94,
    "end": 2586.18,
    "text": "And we will see in person in October or November, I think again."
  },
  {
    "start": 2586.58,
    "end": 2587.76,
    "text": "October, I think it's October."
  },
  {
    "start": 2587.82,
    "end": 2590.38,
    "text": "It's October. Okay, so a little bit up there."
  },
  {
    "start": 2591.7,
    "end": 2595.7,
    "text": "And yeah, I'm happy to see you then again. And thank you for joining the show."
  },
  {
    "start": 2596.74,
    "end": 2597.04,
    "text": "Thank you."
  },
  {
    "start": 2597.76,
    "end": 2597.92,
    "text": "Bye."
  },
  {
    "start": 2598.9,
    "end": 2599.02,
    "text": "Bye."
  }
]