[
  {
    "start": 0.0,
    "end": 10.04,
    "text": " My name is Martin Wolff and I am the official podcast representative of Golem.de."
  },
  {
    "start": 10.04,
    "end": 15.84,
    "text": " This podcast is the English original version of a talk with Richard Eske about his TRS-80."
  },
  {
    "start": 15.84,
    "end": 18.92,
    "text": " We made a translated version with a machine learning tool."
  },
  {
    "start": 18.92,
    "end": 22.96,
    "text": " This German version is available on the same platforms as this podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 22.96,
    "end": 25.28,
    "text": " It will be linked in the show notes as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 25.28,
    "end": 29.92,
    "text": " My guest Richard Eske agreed to this experimental translation."
  },
  {
    "start": 29.92,
    "end": 33.0,
    "text": " Hello and welcome to another episode."
  },
  {
    "start": 33.0,
    "end": 36.52,
    "text": " Which is very strange for me to say this in English."
  },
  {
    "start": 36.52,
    "end": 38.52,
    "text": " And I still haven't come to terms with that."
  },
  {
    "start": 38.52,
    "end": 43.28,
    "text": " There are two episodes that are in English right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 43.28,
    "end": 48.6,
    "text": " There's one about a Soviet computer with Eugene and the one we are recording right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 48.6,
    "end": 49.6,
    "text": " Richard Eske."
  },
  {
    "start": 49.6,
    "end": 52.52,
    "text": " Thank you for coming here."
  },
  {
    "start": 52.52,
    "end": 58.44,
    "text": " And the point is Richard, because you obviously don't speak German so you didn't listen to"
  },
  {
    "start": 58.44,
    "end": 59.44,
    "text": " this podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 59.44,
    "end": 63.64,
    "text": " But I always start the podcast with saying, \"Yeah, my name is that and that and I'm the"
  },
  {
    "start": 63.64,
    "end": 68.96,
    "text": " podcast by Auftraktor of Golem.de and I should be an English translation for that.\""
  },
  {
    "start": 68.96,
    "end": 73.2,
    "text": " But I'm not sure if this is going to be a standard that we are doing English podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 73.2,
    "end": 78.24,
    "text": " So I'll give this to future Martin to take care of."
  },
  {
    "start": 78.24,
    "end": 85.68,
    "text": " Richard, thank you for coming to my office and to talk about the TRS-80."
  },
  {
    "start": 85.68,
    "end": 92.84,
    "text": " I met you at VCFB, which is the vintage computer festival Berlin a couple of weeks ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 92.84,
    "end": 101.72,
    "text": " And I immediately, I was drawn to your desk when I saw this gray computer with something"
  },
  {
    "start": 101.72,
    "end": 106.24,
    "text": " that looked like a TV as a monitor."
  },
  {
    "start": 106.24,
    "end": 113.88,
    "text": " And of course, it is a TRS-80, but as it is usually the case in Europe, I don't know"
  },
  {
    "start": 113.88,
    "end": 115.68,
    "text": " much about it."
  },
  {
    "start": 115.68,
    "end": 121.44,
    "text": " So how did you get to see your first TRS-80 in the house?"
  },
  {
    "start": 121.44,
    "end": 123.16,
    "text": " What's the story behind it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 123.16,
    "end": 129.56,
    "text": " My first TRS-80 actually would be the bigger one that was there."
  },
  {
    "start": 129.56,
    "end": 135.28,
    "text": " So I had three TRS-80s there."
  },
  {
    "start": 135.28,
    "end": 140.96,
    "text": " There was the Model 1 and the Model 3 and then the Model 100 that I have."
  },
  {
    "start": 140.96,
    "end": 148.52,
    "text": " I also have another one that would be the Cocoa 2 or the Color Computer 2 that is also"
  },
  {
    "start": 148.52,
    "end": 151.52,
    "text": " labeled as a TRS-80."
  },
  {
    "start": 151.52,
    "end": 157.0,
    "text": " But that one actually is having problems, so I did not bring it."
  },
  {
    "start": 157.0,
    "end": 165.16,
    "text": " But the TRS-80 that you're describing is the TRS-80 Model 1 and its monitor is a black"
  },
  {
    "start": 165.16,
    "end": 167.6,
    "text": " and white TV."
  },
  {
    "start": 167.6,
    "end": 174.44,
    "text": " And is this computer actually the one that you got back then or did you have one?"
  },
  {
    "start": 174.44,
    "end": 176.0,
    "text": " So how did you start computing?"
  },
  {
    "start": 176.0,
    "end": 180.0,
    "text": " Oh, I started computing with a real computer."
  },
  {
    "start": 180.0,
    "end": 182.92,
    "text": " It would be a Commodore 64."
  },
  {
    "start": 182.92,
    "end": 186.84,
    "text": " That would be my first actual computer."
  },
  {
    "start": 186.84,
    "end": 192.0,
    "text": " I've used Apple II's in the past, but that was for the classroom."
  },
  {
    "start": 192.0,
    "end": 200.4,
    "text": " And I've used consoles or should say I've played on video game consoles the Atari 2600."
  },
  {
    "start": 200.4,
    "end": 202.88,
    "text": " So I'm dating myself."
  },
  {
    "start": 202.88,
    "end": 209.36,
    "text": " You do, but I played on the Atari 2600 as well and it was not in the 70s."
  },
  {
    "start": 209.36,
    "end": 210.56,
    "text": " That's what I can say."
  },
  {
    "start": 210.56,
    "end": 214.36,
    "text": " So we're talking, I think about the 80s or?"
  },
  {
    "start": 214.36,
    "end": 215.36,
    "text": " Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 215.36,
    "end": 218.36,
    "text": " So one thing I have to say, you're from the US."
  },
  {
    "start": 218.36,
    "end": 220.52,
    "text": " Yeah, I mean we have to say."
  },
  {
    "start": 220.52,
    "end": 221.52,
    "text": " I am at this rate."
  },
  {
    "start": 221.52,
    "end": 222.52,
    "text": " There is a difference."
  },
  {
    "start": 222.52,
    "end": 226.0,
    "text": " Yeah, it come out of the US."
  },
  {
    "start": 226.0,
    "end": 231.64,
    "text": " You started computing in the 80s in the US, but where did it take you from there?"
  },
  {
    "start": 231.64,
    "end": 237.32,
    "text": " A lot of places in the United States."
  },
  {
    "start": 237.32,
    "end": 240.52,
    "text": " First it was computing in California."
  },
  {
    "start": 240.52,
    "end": 243.36,
    "text": " Then I moved to New Mexico."
  },
  {
    "start": 243.36,
    "end": 246.04,
    "text": " It's a Southwestern state."
  },
  {
    "start": 246.04,
    "end": 251.72,
    "text": " And then from there, I should say while I was there in New Mexico, I was stayed."
  },
  {
    "start": 251.72,
    "end": 259.28,
    "text": " I lived there for about 20, many years and graduated with a computer science degree and"
  },
  {
    "start": 259.28,
    "end": 264.48,
    "text": " then moved up to Seattle and I've worked with multiple companies all the way through."
  },
  {
    "start": 264.48,
    "end": 275.28,
    "text": " So back in, back in New Mexico, I actually worked at Intel as a computer technician and"
  },
  {
    "start": 275.28,
    "end": 277.48,
    "text": " network guy."
  },
  {
    "start": 277.48,
    "end": 287.56,
    "text": " And then in Seattle, I actually worked for backup administration with Amazon and then"
  },
  {
    "start": 287.56,
    "end": 290.72,
    "text": " I worked as Azure support."
  },
  {
    "start": 290.72,
    "end": 295.08,
    "text": " So doing cloud computing for Microsoft directly."
  },
  {
    "start": 295.08,
    "end": 299.48,
    "text": " Well, in the sense, I shouldn't say directly as a contractor."
  },
  {
    "start": 299.48,
    "end": 304.96,
    "text": " So another company contracted my services to Microsoft."
  },
  {
    "start": 304.96,
    "end": 311.6,
    "text": " I still was on Microsoft territory, I was property doing Microsoft's work directly."
  },
  {
    "start": 311.6,
    "end": 315.84,
    "text": " So it says in your LinkedIn, which I put in the show notes, of course, a seasoned Linux"
  },
  {
    "start": 315.84,
    "end": 320.04,
    "text": " administrator with strong DevOps automation with Ansible and Python."
  },
  {
    "start": 320.04,
    "end": 325.08,
    "text": " I understand the words A with and with."
  },
  {
    "start": 325.08,
    "end": 330.0,
    "text": " Okay, I know what Linux is and I know what an administrator does, but DevOps, Ansible"
  },
  {
    "start": 330.0,
    "end": 331.0,
    "text": " and Python."
  },
  {
    "start": 331.0,
    "end": 332.0,
    "text": " I know what Python is."
  },
  {
    "start": 332.0,
    "end": 333.0,
    "text": " It's a snake."
  },
  {
    "start": 333.0,
    "end": 343.88,
    "text": " Ansible is a configuration tool or configuration language and DevOps is development operations"
  },
  {
    "start": 343.88,
    "end": 353.24,
    "text": " and the idea is to have the ability to automate deploying, deploying computers or changing"
  },
  {
    "start": 353.24,
    "end": 354.24,
    "text": " computers."
  },
  {
    "start": 354.24,
    "end": 360.0,
    "text": " So you have a company that has multiple, say 500 servers doing your work, but you want"
  },
  {
    "start": 360.0,
    "end": 363.2,
    "text": " to change that to something else."
  },
  {
    "start": 363.2,
    "end": 370.2,
    "text": " Instead of doing each and every server to a specific point, you have programs to do"
  },
  {
    "start": 370.2,
    "end": 371.2,
    "text": " that."
  },
  {
    "start": 371.2,
    "end": 372.28,
    "text": " So you have Ansible."
  },
  {
    "start": 372.28,
    "end": 379.68,
    "text": " Ansible then reaches out to all those computers and changes the configuration programmically"
  },
  {
    "start": 379.68,
    "end": 383.84,
    "text": " where you actually just tell it to do its thing and it does it."
  },
  {
    "start": 383.84,
    "end": 389.12,
    "text": " So I certainly heard the difference before, but I never dare to ask what it is."
  },
  {
    "start": 389.12,
    "end": 390.44,
    "text": " Thank you for telling me."
  },
  {
    "start": 390.44,
    "end": 395.24,
    "text": " And also you're at the moment you're looking for work as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 395.24,
    "end": 397.04,
    "text": " Yes, I am."
  },
  {
    "start": 397.04,
    "end": 400.24,
    "text": " So seasoned professional."
  },
  {
    "start": 400.24,
    "end": 407.4,
    "text": " While I would say that I can understand some Deutsch, I would not."
  },
  {
    "start": 407.4,
    "end": 411.96,
    "text": " Aber ich kann sprechen etwas Deutsch."
  },
  {
    "start": 411.96,
    "end": 418.52,
    "text": " Mein Deutsch ist nicht toll."
  },
  {
    "start": 418.52,
    "end": 437.12,
    "text": " Aber ich löhne mehr Deutsch und ich kann der DDoS verstehen."
  },
  {
    "start": 437.12,
    "end": 441.76,
    "text": " At least verstehen, which is already 50 percent."
  },
  {
    "start": 441.76,
    "end": 443.52,
    "text": " No, it's not 50 percent of the way there."
  },
  {
    "start": 443.52,
    "end": 448.04,
    "text": " I think for you speaking people, the DDoS is like, that's a big hurdle to take."
  },
  {
    "start": 448.04,
    "end": 451.48,
    "text": " So there's a reason why we do this podcast in English."
  },
  {
    "start": 451.48,
    "end": 456.56,
    "text": " From now on, did you start collecting when you were still in the US?"
  },
  {
    "start": 456.56,
    "end": 461.56,
    "text": " Yes, that's one of the more expensive parts about moving to the US."
  },
  {
    "start": 461.56,
    "end": 464.6,
    "text": " I would, yeah, I reckon that would be not so cheap."
  },
  {
    "start": 464.6,
    "end": 466.84,
    "text": " So you brought the TRS80."
  },
  {
    "start": 466.84,
    "end": 468.84,
    "text": " It's a real US American."
  },
  {
    "start": 468.84,
    "end": 469.84,
    "text": " It is a US."
  },
  {
    "start": 469.84,
    "end": 478.08,
    "text": " I was running a transformer while I was at the Berlin Festival."
  },
  {
    "start": 478.08,
    "end": 485.72,
    "text": " I was using a large thousand or two thousand watt transformer and that I was powering everything"
  },
  {
    "start": 485.72,
    "end": 486.72,
    "text": " on."
  },
  {
    "start": 486.72,
    "end": 495.12,
    "text": " Luckily, those computers were able to handle the 50 hertz that normally happen in Europe."
  },
  {
    "start": 495.12,
    "end": 497.44,
    "text": " That's a thing that we don't."
  },
  {
    "start": 497.44,
    "end": 502.36,
    "text": " I think sometimes we don't really appreciate the stuff we have right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 502.36,
    "end": 506.6,
    "text": " I never have to care about anything of that anymore at all."
  },
  {
    "start": 506.6,
    "end": 511.92,
    "text": " If I go to the US, I just take my usual stuff with me and I have a plug that adapts the"
  },
  {
    "start": 511.92,
    "end": 512.92,
    "text": " other."
  },
  {
    "start": 512.92,
    "end": 517.08,
    "text": " Yeah, all the plug, most plugs these days have that ability to switch from the high voltage"
  },
  {
    "start": 517.08,
    "end": 519.52,
    "text": " to the low voltage automatically."
  },
  {
    "start": 519.52,
    "end": 525.96,
    "text": " So even the smallest plug for your phone, the adapter, a power adapter is already set"
  },
  {
    "start": 525.96,
    "end": 526.96,
    "text": " for that."
  },
  {
    "start": 526.96,
    "end": 531.28,
    "text": " The only thing you can do is just change the way that it's plugged in."
  },
  {
    "start": 531.28,
    "end": 532.28,
    "text": " Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 532.28,
    "end": 534.44,
    "text": " So let's get back to the 80s."
  },
  {
    "start": 534.44,
    "end": 541.96,
    "text": " You had a C64, which I still, I always thought that the C64 was not that common in the US."
  },
  {
    "start": 541.96,
    "end": 543.56,
    "text": " It was very common."
  },
  {
    "start": 543.56,
    "end": 545.44,
    "text": " It was one of the big ones."
  },
  {
    "start": 545.44,
    "end": 554.48,
    "text": " It was considered a, if not the biggest, it was one of the biggest in the 80s."
  },
  {
    "start": 554.48,
    "end": 560.52,
    "text": " The Atari had the 400 and 800 and that was big, but it was starting to fall away a little"
  },
  {
    "start": 560.52,
    "end": 561.72,
    "text": " bit."
  },
  {
    "start": 561.72,
    "end": 567.64,
    "text": " And then the Commodore 60, the Commodore Vic opened up cheap computers and then the"
  },
  {
    "start": 567.64,
    "end": 573.6,
    "text": " Commodore 64 just pretty much threw that door open."
  },
  {
    "start": 573.6,
    "end": 579.28,
    "text": " Apples were too big, were too expensive to be completely a game machine or a machine"
  },
  {
    "start": 579.28,
    "end": 581.0,
    "text": " that you would give your kid."
  },
  {
    "start": 581.0,
    "end": 586.04,
    "text": " But a Commodore was in that nice price point where you could do that."
  },
  {
    "start": 586.04,
    "end": 588.92,
    "text": " As you're saying that, I remember that."
  },
  {
    "start": 588.92,
    "end": 589.92,
    "text": " That's right."
  },
  {
    "start": 589.92,
    "end": 600.28,
    "text": " There was a commercial with William Chetner of a star enterprise fame who praised the"
  },
  {
    "start": 600.28,
    "end": 604.28,
    "text": " Vic 20 as the wonder computer of the 80s, I guess."
  },
  {
    "start": 604.28,
    "end": 609.76,
    "text": " When it first came out in the 1980, it was considered that way because it was one of"
  },
  {
    "start": 609.76,
    "end": 617.88,
    "text": " the first computers with actual graphics, this colored graphics cheap."
  },
  {
    "start": 617.88,
    "end": 620.04,
    "text": " But we'll go back three years."
  },
  {
    "start": 620.04,
    "end": 622.6,
    "text": " That is 1977."
  },
  {
    "start": 622.6,
    "end": 633.68,
    "text": " There is the so-called 1977 Trinity, which is comprised of the Apple II, the TRS-80 and"
  },
  {
    "start": 633.68,
    "end": 636.28,
    "text": " the Commodore PET."
  },
  {
    "start": 636.28,
    "end": 641.44,
    "text": " So if you could choose, which one would you, right now?"
  },
  {
    "start": 641.44,
    "end": 649.92,
    "text": " If I choose, I like the fact that the Apple had the high graphics."
  },
  {
    "start": 649.92,
    "end": 653.32,
    "text": " You would have to put a lot more effort for the PET."
  },
  {
    "start": 653.32,
    "end": 658.68,
    "text": " The PET actually, I think, didn't have any type of graphics outside of the Alpha Moneric."
  },
  {
    "start": 658.68,
    "end": 663.72,
    "text": " And the TRS-80 had very blocky graphics."
  },
  {
    "start": 663.72,
    "end": 672.6,
    "text": " And also it was only two colors while the Apple had 16 or six."
  },
  {
    "start": 672.6,
    "end": 677.84,
    "text": " So it was more expensive, but it also did more."
  },
  {
    "start": 677.84,
    "end": 679.08,
    "text": " It did."
  },
  {
    "start": 679.08,
    "end": 683.6,
    "text": " And this Trinity, in a way, the kickstarted the home computer revolution because these"
  },
  {
    "start": 683.6,
    "end": 690.28,
    "text": " three were the first ones that came assembled and were ready to purchase in a shop, a normal"
  },
  {
    "start": 690.28,
    "end": 691.28,
    "text": " store."
  },
  {
    "start": 691.28,
    "end": 695.36,
    "text": " You did not have to fiddle with any type of selections."
  },
  {
    "start": 695.36,
    "end": 700.8,
    "text": " You did not have to work fiddle with ROM chips or any type."
  },
  {
    "start": 700.8,
    "end": 702.44,
    "text": " You didn't have to install."
  },
  {
    "start": 702.44,
    "end": 704.96,
    "text": " And you did not have to make them."
  },
  {
    "start": 704.96,
    "end": 710.68,
    "text": " You did not have to actually solder them up, which the other ones you did if you wanted"
  },
  {
    "start": 710.68,
    "end": 715.24,
    "text": " to save money or you had to pay extra to have someone else do it for you."
  },
  {
    "start": 715.24,
    "end": 718.68,
    "text": " So the other two, we can cover the two."
  },
  {
    "start": 718.68,
    "end": 725.64,
    "text": " And the PET, which are like, if I go by looks, I would say the PET."
  },
  {
    "start": 725.64,
    "end": 733.16,
    "text": " But on the other hand, the TRS-80 has a very distinct look, I would say."
  },
  {
    "start": 733.16,
    "end": 737.08,
    "text": " It's, yeah, it's special."
  },
  {
    "start": 737.08,
    "end": 740.96,
    "text": " So but we'll stick with the TRS-80."
  },
  {
    "start": 740.96,
    "end": 743.92,
    "text": " Do you know the back story?"
  },
  {
    "start": 743.92,
    "end": 749.64,
    "text": " I mean, TRS stands for Tandy Radio Shack, which is already a thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 749.64,
    "end": 758.6,
    "text": " On the forehand, I know the Tandy Taning Company got into with Radio Shack first."
  },
  {
    "start": 758.6,
    "end": 767.16,
    "text": " So they bought the electronic company Tandy, sorry, Radio Shack and worked with a distribution"
  },
  {
    "start": 767.16,
    "end": 769.68,
    "text": " of electronics."
  },
  {
    "start": 769.68,
    "end": 777.4,
    "text": " And then as technology advanced into the '70s, they saw an opportunity to put a lot of those"
  },
  {
    "start": 777.4,
    "end": 783.36,
    "text": " off-the-shelf components into a computer."
  },
  {
    "start": 783.36,
    "end": 789.32,
    "text": " Because computers at the time of 1970, 1975, when they probably started to actually look"
  },
  {
    "start": 789.32,
    "end": 793.68,
    "text": " into it, they probably saw that, yeah, we could probably do this."
  },
  {
    "start": 793.68,
    "end": 800.0,
    "text": " And then since they were already a company with resources, they could do it relatively"
  },
  {
    "start": 800.0,
    "end": 801.0,
    "text": " cheaply."
  },
  {
    "start": 801.0,
    "end": 807.56,
    "text": " And that's what the big, big push for the TRS-80 Model 1 was it was cheap."
  },
  {
    "start": 807.56,
    "end": 808.56,
    "text": " It was far cheaper."
  },
  {
    "start": 808.56,
    "end": 810.44,
    "text": " I think it was like half the cost of a..."
  },
  {
    "start": 810.44,
    "end": 811.88,
    "text": " Welcome to the numbers."
  },
  {
    "start": 811.88,
    "end": 812.88,
    "text": " I have them here."
  },
  {
    "start": 812.88,
    "end": 813.88,
    "text": " Okay."
  },
  {
    "start": 813.88,
    "end": 816.12,
    "text": " No, welcome to the, oh, the juicy numbers."
  },
  {
    "start": 816.12,
    "end": 817.12,
    "text": " Welcome to them."
  },
  {
    "start": 817.12,
    "end": 825.72,
    "text": " Okay, Radio Shack is a name that even for someone who's not fluent in English or whatever,"
  },
  {
    "start": 825.72,
    "end": 827.64,
    "text": " it's a strange name."
  },
  {
    "start": 827.64,
    "end": 830.72,
    "text": " I mean, what even is a Radio Shack?"
  },
  {
    "start": 830.72,
    "end": 835.24,
    "text": " And it turns out a Radio Shack is where the radio is at."
  },
  {
    "start": 835.24,
    "end": 844.2,
    "text": " The Ham Radio guys, mostly guys, I presume, in the early years of radio, like in the '20s"
  },
  {
    "start": 844.2,
    "end": 851.52,
    "text": " or whatever, there was a growing scene of amateur radio people."
  },
  {
    "start": 851.52,
    "end": 859.52,
    "text": " And they were catered to by this company, which called itself after what they said,"
  },
  {
    "start": 859.52,
    "end": 862.6,
    "text": " where the radio station is, which is the Radio Shack."
  },
  {
    "start": 862.6,
    "end": 869.44,
    "text": " So everybody knew, okay, this is where I can get my electronics fixed, whatever it is."
  },
  {
    "start": 869.44,
    "end": 874.8,
    "text": " And then as you said, Tandy bought them and Tandy with a leather tanning cover."
  },
  {
    "start": 874.8,
    "end": 877.88,
    "text": " It is a bit strange to have this..."
  },
  {
    "start": 877.88,
    "end": 878.88,
    "text": " Yes it is."
  },
  {
    "start": 878.88,
    "end": 887.76,
    "text": " Because I'm sure you know that there's another leather company with their hands in microelectronics,"
  },
  {
    "start": 887.76,
    "end": 888.76,
    "text": " which is Colico."
  },
  {
    "start": 888.76,
    "end": 889.76,
    "text": " Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 889.76,
    "end": 890.76,
    "text": " Is that normal?"
  },
  {
    "start": 890.76,
    "end": 894.76,
    "text": " And you ask the leather company is doubling into microelectronics?"
  },
  {
    "start": 894.76,
    "end": 895.76,
    "text": " I don't know."
  },
  {
    "start": 895.76,
    "end": 897.16,
    "text": " Obviously, I don't know."
  },
  {
    "start": 897.16,
    "end": 898.68,
    "text": " But yeah, after thinking about it."
  },
  {
    "start": 898.68,
    "end": 906.56,
    "text": " It is kind of interesting that you would have two leather companies get into electronics"
  },
  {
    "start": 906.56,
    "end": 911.16,
    "text": " about the same time and then produce computers."
  },
  {
    "start": 911.16,
    "end": 912.88,
    "text": " It is strange."
  },
  {
    "start": 912.88,
    "end": 916.4,
    "text": " And neither of their computers has a leather finish."
  },
  {
    "start": 916.4,
    "end": 918.96,
    "text": " But that's a mischievous thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 918.96,
    "end": 921.24,
    "text": " I mean, it could have been so nice."
  },
  {
    "start": 921.24,
    "end": 923.52,
    "text": " I think they wanted to keep the prices down."
  },
  {
    "start": 923.52,
    "end": 931.6,
    "text": " So I think having extra $100 in the leather, there might have also been heat issues."
  },
  {
    "start": 931.6,
    "end": 932.6,
    "text": " I don't know."
  },
  {
    "start": 932.6,
    "end": 934.6,
    "text": " Yeah, we'll never find out."
  },
  {
    "start": 934.6,
    "end": 938.64,
    "text": " But what we can find out is the story behind the T-S80."
  },
  {
    "start": 938.64,
    "end": 944.92,
    "text": " There is a funny story about the way they introduced it to the higher ups."
  },
  {
    "start": 944.92,
    "end": 946.08,
    "text": " Do you know about this?"
  },
  {
    "start": 946.08,
    "end": 948.24,
    "text": " How it came to be?"
  },
  {
    "start": 948.24,
    "end": 949.72,
    "text": " Not entirely, no."
  },
  {
    "start": 949.72,
    "end": 957.6,
    "text": " Anyways, I did some research before this podcast and I found this story about how they, one"
  },
  {
    "start": 957.6,
    "end": 961.64,
    "text": " of the sales guys, what's the opposite?"
  },
  {
    "start": 961.64,
    "end": 962.64,
    "text": " What's the research?"
  },
  {
    "start": 962.64,
    "end": 964.68,
    "text": " Do you have like a researcher?"
  },
  {
    "start": 964.68,
    "end": 971.36,
    "text": " No, if you have like such a big electronics, I don't know, chain, they have like a person"
  },
  {
    "start": 971.36,
    "end": 973.84,
    "text": " that looks into stuff that is too, yeah, the buyer."
  },
  {
    "start": 973.84,
    "end": 975.72,
    "text": " Okay, so it's that easy."
  },
  {
    "start": 975.72,
    "end": 980.16,
    "text": " There's one of those buyers and he's meeting with other people and then they go, yeah,"
  },
  {
    "start": 980.16,
    "end": 984.08,
    "text": " wouldn't that be nice to have a computer kid?"
  },
  {
    "start": 984.08,
    "end": 988.72,
    "text": " Because they saw that this is a thing and the homebrew computer club, which was a thing"
  },
  {
    "start": 988.72,
    "end": 989.92,
    "text": " then."
  },
  {
    "start": 989.92,
    "end": 997.6,
    "text": " And there was one of those homebrew guys called Steve Leininger, who obviously was very talented"
  },
  {
    "start": 997.6,
    "end": 1003.4,
    "text": " in developing ideas for turning this into a real product."
  },
  {
    "start": 1003.4,
    "end": 1007.16,
    "text": " Because there's one thing to say, okay, we are like an electronics chain and we can do"
  },
  {
    "start": 1007.16,
    "end": 1011.52,
    "text": " all that, we have the parts, but you have to have the knowledge to put this together."
  },
  {
    "start": 1011.52,
    "end": 1016.36,
    "text": " And he said, wouldn't it be nice to have like a computer that isn't a kid that is all put"
  },
  {
    "start": 1016.36,
    "end": 1018.12,
    "text": " together already?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1018.12,
    "end": 1021.76,
    "text": " That was the trend in the late seventies."
  },
  {
    "start": 1021.76,
    "end": 1026.2,
    "text": " And they did with not a lot of money."
  },
  {
    "start": 1026.2,
    "end": 1033.64,
    "text": " It is there is one number and it is 150,000 US dollars for like the development of the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1033.64,
    "end": 1037.44,
    "text": " whole computer, which is a astonishing deal."
  },
  {
    "start": 1037.44,
    "end": 1047.36,
    "text": " But yeah, yeah, I remember millions being stories of millions being sent to Atari for"
  },
  {
    "start": 1047.36,
    "end": 1056.08,
    "text": " its 2600 million, so much so that they actually had to get investment from Time Warner for"
  },
  {
    "start": 1056.08,
    "end": 1064.2,
    "text": " the Atari 2600 because they needed that much research to see that the TRS-80, I knew it"
  },
  {
    "start": 1064.2,
    "end": 1071.48,
    "text": " felt like the TRS-80 came across as something cobbled together and thrown up oddly enough"
  },
  {
    "start": 1071.48,
    "end": 1077.7,
    "text": " similar to the original IBMs actually, because those were very much just thrown together"
  },
  {
    "start": 1077.7,
    "end": 1080.2,
    "text": " and then have a BIOS."
  },
  {
    "start": 1080.2,
    "end": 1081.72,
    "text": " But that's essentially what happened here."
  },
  {
    "start": 1081.72,
    "end": 1088.96,
    "text": " I could see is that they had a very simple, they had a Z80 memory in this case, I think"
  },
  {
    "start": 1088.96,
    "end": 1097.48,
    "text": " four kilobytes, a total for the first, a very basic ROM that could fit and then just put"
  },
  {
    "start": 1097.48,
    "end": 1099.8,
    "text": " it into a plastic case."
  },
  {
    "start": 1099.8,
    "end": 1106.08,
    "text": " And they had the means of production, which Atari probably didn't have in that, or I"
  },
  {
    "start": 1106.08,
    "end": 1111.68,
    "text": " mean they had probably all the components that they needed already on shelves."
  },
  {
    "start": 1111.68,
    "end": 1114.4,
    "text": " Which Atari didn't have, they have to buy everything."
  },
  {
    "start": 1114.4,
    "end": 1121.76,
    "text": " And when RadioShake probably had, which brings us to the monitor, which is a good, that's"
  },
  {
    "start": 1121.76,
    "end": 1129.92,
    "text": " a good point, how they used already existing technology that they had to put this computer"
  },
  {
    "start": 1129.92,
    "end": 1133.96,
    "text": " together because the monitor was just a TV without the tuner."
  },
  {
    "start": 1133.96,
    "end": 1136.72,
    "text": " I actually opened up the one that I had."
  },
  {
    "start": 1136.72,
    "end": 1139.56,
    "text": " I recently picked up the power supply to it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1139.56,
    "end": 1148.16,
    "text": " So at that festival, our at that meetup was really the first time I turned it on and left"
  },
  {
    "start": 1148.16,
    "end": 1150.2,
    "text": " it on for any length of time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1150.2,
    "end": 1159.96,
    "text": " I did open it up and dust out to keep that TV and looked at it, make sure that the capacitors"
  },
  {
    "start": 1159.96,
    "end": 1161.56,
    "text": " didn't have any issues or anything like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1161.56,
    "end": 1164.28,
    "text": " It was just, but that would be the first time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1164.28,
    "end": 1167.4,
    "text": " And it handled itself very well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1167.4,
    "end": 1175.96,
    "text": " But I could see where a tuner would be because they had the cutouts for the dials in the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1175.96,
    "end": 1181.72,
    "text": " back and the, in those times you had full dials to turn on and so you had the volume control"
  },
  {
    "start": 1181.72,
    "end": 1184.6,
    "text": " and you had the dial and then maybe you would use UV."
  },
  {
    "start": 1184.6,
    "end": 1185.6,
    "text": " UHF?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1185.6,
    "end": 1187.6,
    "text": " Yeah, UHF and so forth."
  },
  {
    "start": 1187.6,
    "end": 1191.04,
    "text": " And you would have to kind of click to the right one."
  },
  {
    "start": 1191.04,
    "end": 1195.88,
    "text": " If you know what to look for, you'll see it because I will link a picture of one in the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1195.88,
    "end": 1200.96,
    "text": " show notes, of course, you'll see that the actual screen is not centered, which is very"
  },
  {
    "start": 1200.96,
    "end": 1205.0,
    "text": " unusual for computer screen because there's no reason to not make a center."
  },
  {
    "start": 1205.0,
    "end": 1210.44,
    "text": " But if it's a TV, which has obviously a speaker on the right or the left side, in this case"
  },
  {
    "start": 1210.44,
    "end": 1213.68,
    "text": " on the right side, then not, yeah, it's not centered."
  },
  {
    "start": 1213.68,
    "end": 1217.12,
    "text": " So yeah, we'll put that in the show notes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1217.12,
    "end": 1223.24,
    "text": " Even in the 70s, actually, black and white TVs or a commodity and they were very cheap"
  },
  {
    "start": 1223.24,
    "end": 1225.88,
    "text": " because the electronics were simple."
  },
  {
    "start": 1225.88,
    "end": 1231.04,
    "text": " The color TVs were in force."
  },
  {
    "start": 1231.04,
    "end": 1237.2,
    "text": " But you could with a simple black and white screen, you can make the computer and this"
  },
  {
    "start": 1237.2,
    "end": 1239.16,
    "text": " is essentially what they did."
  },
  {
    "start": 1239.16,
    "end": 1247.96,
    "text": " So we're still in the 70s and the construction, yeah, the project TRS80 is underway."
  },
  {
    "start": 1247.96,
    "end": 1254.16,
    "text": " So it was all, it was greenlit and they put it all together and they had a, do you know"
  },
  {
    "start": 1254.16,
    "end": 1258.12,
    "text": " the story about the first, the presentation to the higher ups?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1258.12,
    "end": 1259.2,
    "text": " Must have been interesting."
  },
  {
    "start": 1259.2,
    "end": 1261.76,
    "text": " It is, it is."
  },
  {
    "start": 1261.76,
    "end": 1266.08,
    "text": " They showed it to Charles David Tandy."
  },
  {
    "start": 1266.08,
    "end": 1268.56,
    "text": " Okay, so one of the Tandy's."
  },
  {
    "start": 1268.56,
    "end": 1275.08,
    "text": " And that was, yeah, as the name suggests, it's like one of the really the bosses of the corporations."
  },
  {
    "start": 1275.08,
    "end": 1280.2,
    "text": " And they showed it with then tax accounting program because it should have some use."
  },
  {
    "start": 1280.2,
    "end": 1285.6,
    "text": " I mean, yeah, that wouldn't show a simple this guy, but you know, everybody's got to"
  },
  {
    "start": 1285.6,
    "end": 1286.6,
    "text": " the Texas."
  },
  {
    "start": 1286.6,
    "end": 1294.68,
    "text": " So in, and one of the points, of course, is you have to enter your salary, which he did,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1294.68,
    "end": 1301.68,
    "text": " which let the program to crash because the salary was over 150,000."
  },
  {
    "start": 1301.68,
    "end": 1309.12,
    "text": " It was 16 bit integer and they ask him, okay, it's okay to earn that much money, but for"
  },
  {
    "start": 1309.12,
    "end": 1316.52,
    "text": " the computer would be good if you could only have 32,000 a year of income."
  },
  {
    "start": 1316.52,
    "end": 1322.76,
    "text": " So which he, yeah, he agreed not to have that less income, but he agreed to type it in and"
  },
  {
    "start": 1322.76,
    "end": 1323.76,
    "text": " then it worked."
  },
  {
    "start": 1323.76,
    "end": 1326.12,
    "text": " And yeah, they got it out the door."
  },
  {
    "start": 1326.12,
    "end": 1328.64,
    "text": " I don't know where this anecdote is from."
  },
  {
    "start": 1328.64,
    "end": 1331.08,
    "text": " I'll try to put a link in the description."
  },
  {
    "start": 1331.08,
    "end": 1333.48,
    "text": " I'm not sure if it's accurate, but it's very nice."
  },
  {
    "start": 1333.48,
    "end": 1335.88,
    "text": " And I mean, yeah, it sounds interesting."
  },
  {
    "start": 1335.88,
    "end": 1337.88,
    "text": " Yeah, it does."
  },
  {
    "start": 1337.88,
    "end": 1344.04,
    "text": " So they were estimating how much, how many computers will they sell?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1344.04,
    "end": 1350.12,
    "text": " I mean, there was no, there was no, there was no precedent to that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1350.12,
    "end": 1357.92,
    "text": " In the 1970s, especially if it was 77, the others no precedent because those three in"
  },
  {
    "start": 1357.92,
    "end": 1361.8,
    "text": " the original triumph and that was it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1361.8,
    "end": 1367.8,
    "text": " Because I think Atari's computers came out in 1979."
  },
  {
    "start": 1367.8,
    "end": 1369.72,
    "text": " So these three were it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1369.72,
    "end": 1372.08,
    "text": " These were the first three."
  },
  {
    "start": 1372.08,
    "end": 1380.12,
    "text": " So they thought, I mean, the guys who French was the one of, one was called Mr. French."
  },
  {
    "start": 1380.12,
    "end": 1384.76,
    "text": " He was from Radio Shack and the Nininja was the one who came from the Homebrew Computer"
  },
  {
    "start": 1384.76,
    "end": 1387.28,
    "text": " Club and they were very optimistic."
  },
  {
    "start": 1387.28,
    "end": 1389.96,
    "text": " They said, we could do 50,000."
  },
  {
    "start": 1389.96,
    "end": 1395.44,
    "text": " But the executives thought, nah, come on, a thousand to 3000."
  },
  {
    "start": 1395.44,
    "end": 1397.68,
    "text": " That is what we said."
  },
  {
    "start": 1397.68,
    "end": 1404.48,
    "text": " Then one of them told them, okay, so let's do three and a half thousand because that"
  },
  {
    "start": 1404.48,
    "end": 1406.6,
    "text": " is the amount of stores we have."
  },
  {
    "start": 1406.6,
    "end": 1412.88,
    "text": " So even if they're not sold, the store can use them for accounting, which would be good,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1412.88,
    "end": 1413.88,
    "text": " wouldn't it be?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1413.88,
    "end": 1416.36,
    "text": " So they said, okay, we'll do."
  },
  {
    "start": 1416.36,
    "end": 1421.12,
    "text": " Now what happened was that 15,000 people in the first days of the announcement called"
  },
  {
    "start": 1421.12,
    "end": 1425.44,
    "text": " Radio Shack to purchase a tier 80."
  },
  {
    "start": 1425.44,
    "end": 1429.72,
    "text": " The whole telephone line went blacked out."
  },
  {
    "start": 1429.72,
    "end": 1430.72,
    "text": " I can see that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1430.72,
    "end": 1431.72,
    "text": " That could be funny."
  },
  {
    "start": 1431.72,
    "end": 1433.72,
    "text": " It's definitely the..."
  },
  {
    "start": 1433.72,
    "end": 1439.76,
    "text": " In the first one and a half months, they sold over 10,000 and over 200,000 during the product's"
  },
  {
    "start": 1439.76,
    "end": 1445.32,
    "text": " lifetime, which is quite a lot for this time, I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 1445.32,
    "end": 1452.12,
    "text": " For the 1970s because actually that's Apple II numbers is in that realm."
  },
  {
    "start": 1452.12,
    "end": 1455.2,
    "text": " If you're selling hundreds of thousands, that's what the Apple II."
  },
  {
    "start": 1455.2,
    "end": 1459.84,
    "text": " No, that's the part where I go with the numbers."
  },
  {
    "start": 1459.84,
    "end": 1463.48,
    "text": " Now the tier is 80 at first."
  },
  {
    "start": 1463.48,
    "end": 1469.2,
    "text": " The price for a kit, obviously they had like a kit, but it was not expected that many people"
  },
  {
    "start": 1469.2,
    "end": 1470.2,
    "text": " buy it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1470.2,
    "end": 1474.4,
    "text": " It was 399, which is $2,000 today."
  },
  {
    "start": 1474.4,
    "end": 1480.36,
    "text": " The normal one with the monitor and the tape recorder, which is of course necessary to"
  },
  {
    "start": 1480.36,
    "end": 1492.12,
    "text": " get data in and out of this thing, was 599, which is $3,116.59 in two days, which is..."
  },
  {
    "start": 1492.12,
    "end": 1502.28,
    "text": " Yeah, we have November 24, which would in Germany have amounted to over 7,000,000"
  },
  {
    "start": 1502.28,
    "end": 1506.0,
    "text": " in German and German."
  },
  {
    "start": 1506.0,
    "end": 1515.32,
    "text": " So you can immediately see why it took so long for Germany to catch up with computers."
  },
  {
    "start": 1515.32,
    "end": 1522.44,
    "text": " The exchange rate for the US currency for the dollar was so high that the prices were"
  },
  {
    "start": 1522.44,
    "end": 1523.44,
    "text": " up in the sky."
  },
  {
    "start": 1523.44,
    "end": 1526.2,
    "text": " I'll give you another example because this is..."
  },
  {
    "start": 1526.2,
    "end": 1527.44,
    "text": " I love it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1527.44,
    "end": 1531.08,
    "text": " The Apple II, which was the most expensive of them."
  },
  {
    "start": 1531.08,
    "end": 1532.08,
    "text": " It was the premium."
  },
  {
    "start": 1532.08,
    "end": 1535.08,
    "text": " Yeah, that was in dollars."
  },
  {
    "start": 1535.08,
    "end": 1549.6,
    "text": " It was 1,298 at launch, which amounts to over $6,700 today, and it amounted to a staggering"
  },
  {
    "start": 1549.6,
    "end": 1553.32,
    "text": " 15,600 Deutschmarks."
  },
  {
    "start": 1553.32,
    "end": 1563.88,
    "text": " Now a VW Kaffer or a Beetle, as you might call it, in 1977, in the Cabrio version, which"
  },
  {
    "start": 1563.88,
    "end": 1569.28,
    "text": " is the better one with a cigarette lighter as a standard, which is the better one, would"
  },
  {
    "start": 1569.28,
    "end": 1574.08,
    "text": " have cost you 13,255 Deutschmarks."
  },
  {
    "start": 1574.08,
    "end": 1575.08,
    "text": " There you go."
  },
  {
    "start": 1575.08,
    "end": 1578.64,
    "text": " That's an Apple computer for you in 1977."
  },
  {
    "start": 1578.64,
    "end": 1586.0,
    "text": " So just to put this into perspective, why didn't the Germans have computers when the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1586.0,
    "end": 1590.4,
    "text": " US people had it in the end of the '70s and the beginning of the '80s?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1590.4,
    "end": 1591.4,
    "text": " It is really..."
  },
  {
    "start": 1591.4,
    "end": 1592.92,
    "text": " It is the currency."
  },
  {
    "start": 1592.92,
    "end": 1600.84,
    "text": " It was difficult to get a computer for that sum of money."
  },
  {
    "start": 1600.84,
    "end": 1604.92,
    "text": " If you say it's even complicated in the US because there was no precedent and people"
  },
  {
    "start": 1604.92,
    "end": 1608.64,
    "text": " didn't know what to expect, imagine the situation in Europe."
  },
  {
    "start": 1608.64,
    "end": 1611.24,
    "text": " It was even worse."
  },
  {
    "start": 1611.24,
    "end": 1616.76,
    "text": " So I already mentioned that it sold very well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1616.76,
    "end": 1622.2,
    "text": " Are there other reasons that come to mind why it would have been successful?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1622.2,
    "end": 1624.08,
    "text": " RadioShack itself."
  },
  {
    "start": 1624.08,
    "end": 1628.36,
    "text": " They owned this distribution."
  },
  {
    "start": 1628.36,
    "end": 1634.36,
    "text": " They owned RadioShack so they could send them to those shops and the shops, and then they"
  },
  {
    "start": 1634.36,
    "end": 1640.2,
    "text": " could buy them also because RadioShack had all the electronics and was a big player in"
  },
  {
    "start": 1640.2,
    "end": 1641.2,
    "text": " the electronics."
  },
  {
    "start": 1641.2,
    "end": 1646.84,
    "text": " The people that would gravitate who would want to buy a computer already are going to"
  },
  {
    "start": 1646.84,
    "end": 1648.16,
    "text": " these shops."
  },
  {
    "start": 1648.16,
    "end": 1654.6,
    "text": " So finding a computer that costs half as much or more half the than say an Apple II would"
  },
  {
    "start": 1654.6,
    "end": 1660.4,
    "text": " probably go for that, especially if they were thinking of business-related items."
  },
  {
    "start": 1660.4,
    "end": 1665.16,
    "text": " I mean, the reason why I picked the Apple II is because of the graphics."
  },
  {
    "start": 1665.16,
    "end": 1671.92,
    "text": " However, if I was after an accountant or doing job or work, then it becomes much harder"
  },
  {
    "start": 1671.92,
    "end": 1680.28,
    "text": " to say whether you want it or not because they both blip and the graphics that you do"
  },
  {
    "start": 1680.28,
    "end": 1682.8,
    "text": " get are functional."
  },
  {
    "start": 1682.8,
    "end": 1695.72,
    "text": " They're black and white and you can also see how the numbers have the killer app as Apple"
  },
  {
    "start": 1695.72,
    "end": 1699.08,
    "text": " II would say would be the quick calc."
  },
  {
    "start": 1699.08,
    "end": 1702.32,
    "text": " Yeah, supercalc, no, what was it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1702.32,
    "end": 1703.32,
    "text": " One of the cafe owners."
  },
  {
    "start": 1703.32,
    "end": 1705.84,
    "text": " Yeah, essentially the spreadsheet."
  },
  {
    "start": 1705.84,
    "end": 1712.04,
    "text": " And the spreadsheet can also be put on all the, it could be on the pet, it could be on"
  },
  {
    "start": 1712.04,
    "end": 1715.68,
    "text": " the Aterozade as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1715.68,
    "end": 1719.2,
    "text": " You would need to have some extra memory to it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1719.2,
    "end": 1722.12,
    "text": " But yeah, you could run that as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1722.12,
    "end": 1726.88,
    "text": " And putting a memory after the fact is also quite possible."
  },
  {
    "start": 1726.88,
    "end": 1733.48,
    "text": " And you had an adapter that would give you extra memory."
  },
  {
    "start": 1733.48,
    "end": 1738.32,
    "text": " So instead of saying 4K, you could have 20K."
  },
  {
    "start": 1738.32,
    "end": 1746.52,
    "text": " And then you can do basic Excel spreadsheets and ledgering and such."
  },
  {
    "start": 1746.52,
    "end": 1748.4,
    "text": " And there is also some technology."
  },
  {
    "start": 1748.4,
    "end": 1754.72,
    "text": " I could have brought, I have a suite, I have an accounting software package."
  },
  {
    "start": 1754.72,
    "end": 1763.24,
    "text": " While it's not leather bound, it has fall, it has the soft vinyl to it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1763.24,
    "end": 1764.24,
    "text": " And it's three."
  },
  {
    "start": 1764.24,
    "end": 1770.68,
    "text": " That you can squeeze, there's the vinyl stuff where there's foam inside and you can squeeze."
  },
  {
    "start": 1770.68,
    "end": 1775.92,
    "text": " So not quite leather bound, but it's definitely trying to imitate it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1775.92,
    "end": 1776.92,
    "text": " The next best thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1776.92,
    "end": 1778.4,
    "text": " Yeah, it's trying to imitate it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1778.4,
    "end": 1780.08,
    "text": " Three volumes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1780.08,
    "end": 1783.16,
    "text": " Has all the software that I want, everything."
  },
  {
    "start": 1783.16,
    "end": 1784.44,
    "text": " Is it on disk or is it on tape?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1784.44,
    "end": 1787.44,
    "text": " I think it's on disk."
  },
  {
    "start": 1787.44,
    "end": 1789.08,
    "text": " It definitely would come in later."
  },
  {
    "start": 1789.08,
    "end": 1796.2,
    "text": " So I could apply it to the TRS-80 Model 3 that I have."
  },
  {
    "start": 1796.2,
    "end": 1802.64,
    "text": " And that one has a, that one still has the same tube as the Model 1."
  },
  {
    "start": 1802.64,
    "end": 1806.84,
    "text": " It's TV, but it's now a tube that's inside."
  },
  {
    "start": 1806.84,
    "end": 1813.04,
    "text": " We should get to the follow-up generations, but we need to do some of the specifications."
  },
  {
    "start": 1813.04,
    "end": 1814.04,
    "text": " You already mentioned it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1814.04,
    "end": 1819.88,
    "text": " The standard configuration was four kilobytes, which is, if you hear it today, it's absolutely"
  },
  {
    "start": 1819.88,
    "end": 1823.04,
    "text": " meager, but memory was very expensive."
  },
  {
    "start": 1823.04,
    "end": 1824.04,
    "text": " Yes, it was."
  },
  {
    "start": 1824.04,
    "end": 1827.4,
    "text": " Extremely expensive and the prices were falling fast."
  },
  {
    "start": 1827.4,
    "end": 1832.96,
    "text": " So like, I mean, three, four years later, that would have been."
  },
  {
    "start": 1832.96,
    "end": 1839.04,
    "text": " Three or four years later, you had the VIC-20 with 16K."
  },
  {
    "start": 1839.04,
    "end": 1840.8,
    "text": " Four times for less than that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1840.8,
    "end": 1850.0,
    "text": " And then even a year or two later, you would have the Commodore 64 with 64 active memory."
  },
  {
    "start": 1850.0,
    "end": 1854.52,
    "text": " This was, would have been astronomically expensive in the '77."
  },
  {
    "start": 1854.52,
    "end": 1861.56,
    "text": " 64 kilobytes would have the prices skyrocketing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1861.56,
    "end": 1863.96,
    "text": " So four kilobytes, which was respectable."
  },
  {
    "start": 1863.96,
    "end": 1870.72,
    "text": " You had, as mentioned, a cassette interface where you could store and load programs."
  },
  {
    "start": 1870.72,
    "end": 1876.56,
    "text": " You had this monochrome monitor, which had 64 by 16 text mode."
  },
  {
    "start": 1876.56,
    "end": 1879.0,
    "text": " So that is that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1879.0,
    "end": 1882.68,
    "text": " And you had a Xiloc Z80, Z80."
  },
  {
    "start": 1882.68,
    "end": 1886.04,
    "text": " There is the American for you."
  },
  {
    "start": 1886.04,
    "end": 1887.64,
    "text": " It's called the Z80."
  },
  {
    "start": 1887.64,
    "end": 1891.32,
    "text": " However, it could be called the Z80 as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1891.32,
    "end": 1896.96,
    "text": " But that's more of an English term, but it's in America, it's usually called the Z80."
  },
  {
    "start": 1896.96,
    "end": 1900.76,
    "text": " I think the Z80, she has a better way to say it, but that's beside the point."
  },
  {
    "start": 1900.76,
    "end": 1908.4,
    "text": " Okay, the point is 1.77 megahertz, which is not bad at all."
  },
  {
    "start": 1908.4,
    "end": 1913.12,
    "text": " And yeah, and you had basic in ROM, which is a big selling point, I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 1913.12,
    "end": 1921.44,
    "text": " Yeah, it was, because a lot of, even later companies had basic in a tape or a cassette."
  },
  {
    "start": 1921.44,
    "end": 1922.76,
    "text": " You mentioned the Coleco."
  },
  {
    "start": 1922.76,
    "end": 1929.2,
    "text": " Well, their computer Coleco Atom, you had to install the, you had to run the basic off"
  },
  {
    "start": 1929.2,
    "end": 1931.12,
    "text": " of the tape."
  },
  {
    "start": 1931.12,
    "end": 1938.96,
    "text": " So I mean all of the three of the Trinity they had basic, I guess Apple, no, didn't Apple"
  },
  {
    "start": 1938.96,
    "end": 1943.0,
    "text": " have to deliver it afterwards?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1943.0,
    "end": 1949.96,
    "text": " There might have been a glitch, but it had, it had similar basic in the sense that it"
  },
  {
    "start": 1949.96,
    "end": 1951.36,
    "text": " was an integer basic."
  },
  {
    "start": 1951.36,
    "end": 1961.2,
    "text": " Both the TR-Z80 and the Apple II had a basic basic, which didn't have a whole, it didn't"
  },
  {
    "start": 1961.2,
    "end": 1965.08,
    "text": " have the floating point, because that took a lot of space."
  },
  {
    "start": 1965.08,
    "end": 1968.92,
    "text": " So it dealt with integer math, like you said, the 16-bit integer map."
  },
  {
    "start": 1968.92,
    "end": 1975.84,
    "text": " So you can only have values to 65,000."
  },
  {
    "start": 1975.84,
    "end": 1981.96,
    "text": " So when it came to doing in a floating point,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1981.96,
    "end": 1986.21,
    "text": " You usually needed 32 bits or essentially double that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1986.21,
    "end": 1992.93,
    "text": " And you also needed the mechanisms and the routines to use actual floating point."
  },
  {
    "start": 1992.93,
    "end": 2001.17,
    "text": " That took up much more space. So when they did bring out new stuff or since they upgraded"
  },
  {
    "start": 2001.17,
    "end": 2009.25,
    "text": " of the basic level two, I think it was 12 kilobytes for it. But that had that had the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2009.25,
    "end": 2017.17,
    "text": " ability to handle 32 bit floating point, which most of the basics in that 8 bit era had."
  },
  {
    "start": 2017.17,
    "end": 2023.81,
    "text": " And you could still work with 32 bit floating point. But these days you can go up to absurd"
  },
  {
    "start": 2023.81,
    "end": 2028.77,
    "text": " floating point, but I'm digressing again. Yeah, there's no context of today's."
  },
  {
    "start": 2028.77,
    "end": 2035.49,
    "text": " You can't really compare any of that to today's computers. That would have been, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 2036.29,
    "end": 2044.21,
    "text": " So you could expand this by later buying an expansion interface, which looks very"
  },
  {
    "start": 2044.21,
    "end": 2051.09,
    "text": " computer-y, like it is like a box, gray silver appeal, I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 2051.09,
    "end": 2054.29,
    "text": " Yeah, that was the that was the big thing for them was the gray silver."
  },
  {
    "start": 2054.29,
    "end": 2058.85,
    "text": " You put it under the monitor and it looks good. And it does have a floppy disk controller,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2058.85,
    "end": 2064.93,
    "text": " an expansion port, a serial port. You could put RAM into that up to 32K."
  },
  {
    "start": 2064.93,
    "end": 2071.89,
    "text": " You had signals, it says signals for a real time clock. I don't know what you would need"
  },
  {
    "start": 2071.89,
    "end": 2078.61,
    "text": " a real time clock for. There's actually a reason because of the whole Radio Shack time with the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2078.61,
    "end": 2085.97,
    "text": " electronics. They actually did a lot of home automation early. You talk about smart homes"
  },
  {
    "start": 2085.97,
    "end": 2091.09,
    "text": " and figuring things out and timing everything. That was done with Radio Shack equipment."
  },
  {
    "start": 2093.09,
    "end": 2100.29,
    "text": " Then, so 1970s, now it was very basic and you didn't have any type of feedback. It was all just"
  },
  {
    "start": 2100.29,
    "end": 2110.77,
    "text": " timers, essentially. But you could make a timer for your for heaters, for lights, all of that back"
  },
  {
    "start": 2110.77,
    "end": 2120.53,
    "text": " in the 80s, in 1980s. Imagine that you have a TRS80 and you start home automation in the 80s."
  },
  {
    "start": 2120.53,
    "end": 2131.73,
    "text": " I mean, in 1978, 79, that would be, I mean, yeah, talking about cutting edge. I mean,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2131.73,
    "end": 2137.73,
    "text": " really, that is a whole different level of... And you can time it and you can sequence it."
  },
  {
    "start": 2137.73,
    "end": 2143.65,
    "text": " I actually have a couple of books on the interface scene, the TRS80 to various tools."
  },
  {
    "start": 2145.01,
    "end": 2149.97,
    "text": " There was also a lot of books on doing it with other computers, but there is a really,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2149.97,
    "end": 2159.65,
    "text": " because again, it has the Radio Shack angle or the Radio Shack source. So it was already geared for"
  },
  {
    "start": 2159.65,
    "end": 2168.13,
    "text": " using those electronics with it. Now, I won't say it was compatible because you had to"
  },
  {
    "start": 2168.13,
    "end": 2177.41,
    "text": " actually do your own soldering, but there was more cross-pollination, if you can understand the term,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2177.41,
    "end": 2183.57,
    "text": " where you're in the store, you have it, and then you have these components, and then you can find"
  },
  {
    "start": 2183.57,
    "end": 2189.01,
    "text": " the books for these components to work with it. So, while you can't just simply plug it in and go,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2189.01,
    "end": 2194.85,
    "text": " you can find the resources necessary to do it anyway."
  },
  {
    "start": 2196.53,
    "end": 2202.45,
    "text": " As you're an American and as you no doubt have been in a Radio Shack store in your life,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2202.45,
    "end": 2208.53,
    "text": " yeah, I have. Do you remember how it was when you first came into such a store? What does it feel?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2208.53,
    "end": 2214.61,
    "text": " Or what did it feel like? Oh, interesting mix, because the stories that I remember,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2214.61,
    "end": 2218.85,
    "text": " the first half is for the consumer. So this is where you would have your..."
  },
  {
    "start": 2220.37,
    "end": 2228.93,
    "text": " You would have your general purpose items, your stereos, your various tools,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2228.93,
    "end": 2235.81,
    "text": " and remote control cars. They were very big on remote control cars. They had it every..."
  },
  {
    "start": 2235.81,
    "end": 2243.57,
    "text": " That was the big thing when I remember. But in the later part, or certainly in the back of the store,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2243.57,
    "end": 2252.93,
    "text": " away from all the stereos and such, you had the raw electronics. So you would have the chips,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2252.93,
    "end": 2259.33,
    "text": " the resistors. You would have all of the basic electronics that you wanted. You might have some"
  },
  {
    "start": 2259.33,
    "end": 2267.73,
    "text": " kits, but this is where, if you needed to get it apart, you would get from there. So the Radio"
  },
  {
    "start": 2267.73,
    "end": 2276.13,
    "text": " Shack was sort of these sort of mix of, at least in the later years, was a mix of the easy to get"
  },
  {
    "start": 2276.13,
    "end": 2282.53,
    "text": " straight, you just simply buy and go and take home to the electronics that you wanted. There was a"
  },
  {
    "start": 2282.53,
    "end": 2287.73,
    "text": " little bit of a premium, because it was all nice and packaged and it had the brand name."
  },
  {
    "start": 2287.73,
    "end": 2297.49,
    "text": " I mean, you could always go to a distributor or a non-Radio Shack branded electronic shop."
  },
  {
    "start": 2297.89,
    "end": 2303.49,
    "text": " And then buy direct that way. Usually get better prices, but you won't get the brand name."
  },
  {
    "start": 2303.49,
    "end": 2307.89,
    "text": " And then you'll get some things that are sort of in the middle."
  },
  {
    "start": 2307.89,
    "end": 2319.65,
    "text": " But Radio Shack, I remember, had the electronic toys, had the remote control cars. That was one"
  },
  {
    "start": 2319.65,
    "end": 2325.17,
    "text": " of the big places where you can get half decent electronics. You can get some very cheap stuff,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2326.45,
    "end": 2335.73,
    "text": " or you can get some fairly expensive remote control cars there. You also had stereo equipment and,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2335.73,
    "end": 2342.69,
    "text": " of course, TVs. I mean, it's interesting because they seem to still then have cater to the like the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2342.69,
    "end": 2348.29,
    "text": " ham radio crowd and all the people who just wanted to tinker with electronics at all, which is not"
  },
  {
    "start": 2349.01,
    "end": 2358.69,
    "text": " how you would imagine a contemporary media on market or whatever we have now, which is quite"
  },
  {
    "start": 2358.69,
    "end": 2365.33,
    "text": " different. Even a cable runs you like a triple of what it should cost. And a cable is like,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2365.33,
    "end": 2373.25,
    "text": " a cable is already like advanced stuff that's already considered something that is advanced."
  },
  {
    "start": 2374.85,
    "end": 2384.53,
    "text": " A cable, you get a hummer cable for a hummer couple for 10 euros or something like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2384.53,
    "end": 2388.13,
    "text": " Yeah, there you go. And that's already the advanced stuff. I'm not talking about soldering"
  },
  {
    "start": 2388.13,
    "end": 2394.61,
    "text": " stations or components. Oh, no, you'll never see that. A cable is already like, and it's been"
  },
  {
    "start": 2394.61,
    "end": 2402.37,
    "text": " like that for quite a while. I remember that even in the 2000s, like the most advanced thing that"
  },
  {
    "start": 2402.37,
    "end": 2407.33,
    "text": " you could ask where is a specialized printer cable or something, there's no, you know, you can't buy"
  },
  {
    "start": 2407.33,
    "end": 2417.09,
    "text": " like, I don't know, like boards or stuff to solder something right there. I can't imagine."
  },
  {
    "start": 2417.09,
    "end": 2425.41,
    "text": " I can't remember any of those. You have, well, yeah, media more had the CDs, you had the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2426.21,
    "end": 2433.73,
    "text": " appliances, you had a lot of coffee makers. A lot of that's right. And you had the photos, you had the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2433.73,
    "end": 2442.29,
    "text": " it felt more like a Sears or essentially department if it's a department store, maybe more electronics."
  },
  {
    "start": 2442.29,
    "end": 2447.65,
    "text": " Yeah, maybe my comparison is wrong because we had of course, we had stores like that in Germany too."
  },
  {
    "start": 2447.65,
    "end": 2452.45,
    "text": " They were called Conrad and Rachel. And they were. Yeah, I heard about this. I would like to go back"
  },
  {
    "start": 2452.45,
    "end": 2456.85,
    "text": " to it. I would like to go to a Conrad's if they're still around. I guess that they're all closed"
  },
  {
    "start": 2456.85,
    "end": 2463.17,
    "text": " right now. I think I read the news on golem.de, which we should mention right here right now,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2463.17,
    "end": 2470.37,
    "text": " that the last ones are closed too. But I would have seen one. I would like to have seen one."
  },
  {
    "start": 2470.37,
    "end": 2476.45,
    "text": " Yeah, I don't know, but Berlin did have at least one. I don't know. I'm still, I would like to find it."
  },
  {
    "start": 2476.45,
    "end": 2481.17,
    "text": " I would like to find a good, a good electronic store in Berlin."
  },
  {
    "start": 2481.17,
    "end": 2491.01,
    "text": " Hints about this and also future guests and topics to golem, no, to podcast@golem.de, please."
  },
  {
    "start": 2491.01,
    "end": 2498.93,
    "text": " Now, back to the, to the story of the TRS80. So it did start pretty well and then it"
  },
  {
    "start": 2498.93,
    "end": 2505.09,
    "text": " did continue to do well. So well, in fact, that there were successors. As you said, there was a"
  },
  {
    "start": 2505.09,
    "end": 2510.93,
    "text": " there, you said you have a three. So that probably was a two. So what? Yeah, the two, okay, the,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2510.93,
    "end": 2520.05,
    "text": " the model three is essentially a model one with the memory. So it has 48 kilobytes set of four."
  },
  {
    "start": 2520.05,
    "end": 2528.21,
    "text": " It has the basic level two. So it had the floating point. It has a built-in monitor,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2528.21,
    "end": 2534.45,
    "text": " which is still the same monitor as the level. It's the TV, but it's just the tube this time."
  },
  {
    "start": 2534.45,
    "end": 2539.81,
    "text": " The tube and some of the D, some of the electronics to deconstruct, but"
  },
  {
    "start": 2539.81,
    "end": 2546.85,
    "text": " and it has two floppy disks were five and a quarter or essentially the standard five and a"
  },
  {
    "start": 2546.85,
    "end": 2554.53,
    "text": " quarter Stuttgart design. Now the model two had less memory. I think it was 32 kilobytes,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2554.53,
    "end": 2562.13,
    "text": " but had eight inch Stuttgart derives. And then there was the model four, which I think had"
  },
  {
    "start": 2563.41,
    "end": 2570.93,
    "text": " refinements and also I think a high def, a high definition graphics, something that was lacking"
  },
  {
    "start": 2570.93,
    "end": 2582.93,
    "text": " with the other models. They, they had fairly simple. So it was 128 by 48 pixels that you can get"
  },
  {
    "start": 2582.93,
    "end": 2591.49,
    "text": " access to. While more common machines, especially when the 80s started to come around had like 192"
  },
  {
    "start": 2591.49,
    "end": 2598.77,
    "text": " or 256 or 300 versus, so the graphics needed to be improved. So that's where the model four came"
  },
  {
    "start": 2598.77,
    "end": 2606.21,
    "text": " into be. There was also the color computers, which already had essentially those were the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2606.21,
    "end": 2613.01,
    "text": " home lines for more gameplay for the gamer that would essentially compete against the common or"
  },
  {
    "start": 2613.01,
    "end": 2623.81,
    "text": " 64 and the common or VIX. So were they compatible? No, of course. The 80s we were talking about,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2623.81,
    "end": 2629.41,
    "text": " of course they're not compatible. Back, yeah, the eight bit era of computers,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2629.41,
    "end": 2639.89,
    "text": " there was very little direct compatibility. Even between typical machines, you're, you actually"
  },
  {
    "start": 2639.89,
    "end": 2647.49,
    "text": " have examples right here. You have a Commodore 64 or 128 and then you have a, oh, I wish it was a"
  },
  {
    "start": 2647.49,
    "end": 2654.05,
    "text": " 28, but it's a 128. It's a Commodore 64. And you have the plus four and you have the Commodore 16."
  },
  {
    "start": 2654.05,
    "end": 2663.33,
    "text": " They're not compatible. Same company and almost the same look. No, okay, okay. You got me there."
  },
  {
    "start": 2663.33,
    "end": 2671.97,
    "text": " You got me there. But they are not called, they are not called C16 model one, two and three."
  },
  {
    "start": 2671.97,
    "end": 2678.05,
    "text": " They have different names and you, those are, those are compatible. Now the, the models,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2678.05,
    "end": 2684.77,
    "text": " the commoners, the TIRS 80 is compatible. Model one, model two, model three, model four are"
  },
  {
    "start": 2684.77,
    "end": 2690.93,
    "text": " compatible. It was the, when I introduced the color computer, the cocoa, I'll say, that's not"
  },
  {
    "start": 2690.93,
    "end": 2697.09,
    "text": " compatible because it uses a completely different architecture and actually a different processor"
  },
  {
    "start": 2697.09,
    "end": 2704.77,
    "text": " entirely. But it's not the nice pretty, or I should say the black and white ones that I have."
  },
  {
    "start": 2704.77,
    "end": 2712.05,
    "text": " But the model two looks also does look, it looks entirely different than the model one. It looks"
  },
  {
    "start": 2712.05,
    "end": 2720.53,
    "text": " much, I would say, sleeker, but I'm not sure what, what they were going for with this one. It has the,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2720.53,
    "end": 2728.45,
    "text": " the, the TV style aesthetics with the non centered screen. But on the right, there is a disk drive,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2728.45,
    "end": 2734.85,
    "text": " which makes sense, I guess. And then you have a separate keyboard, which does it house the computer,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2734.85,
    "end": 2742.13,
    "text": " the keyboard? Is it in the, the, if in the model three that I have, no, it does not."
  },
  {
    "start": 2743.73,
    "end": 2752.13,
    "text": " The computer is actually in the back of the screen of the screen. The model one, it is."
  },
  {
    "start": 2752.13,
    "end": 2759.73,
    "text": " It's very similar. The model one in the model and the commoner 34 are very close in the sense of the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2759.73,
    "end": 2768.37,
    "text": " form in that you have a keyboard above the computer. So in the model one, it is there. It is above the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2768.37,
    "end": 2776.37,
    "text": " computer. So you, you would be typing essentially on the computer itself. The model two, I'm unsure."
  },
  {
    "start": 2776.37,
    "end": 2786.61,
    "text": " It could be using a line, essentially a very thick cable that goes to the machine. I suspect"
  },
  {
    "start": 2786.61,
    "end": 2790.93,
    "text": " that they might be doing the same thing with the model as the model three and have the computer in"
  },
  {
    "start": 2790.93,
    "end": 2799.25,
    "text": " the back and then just have a wire that goes to the keyboard. We had the TRS 80. We had the TRS"
  },
  {
    "start": 2799.25,
    "end": 2806.21,
    "text": " 80 models that followed none of them, none of which to my knowledge came to Europe with any success."
  },
  {
    "start": 2806.21,
    "end": 2814.45,
    "text": " Did they? I don't recall. The TRS 80s actually aren't well known even in the United States. They,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2815.81,
    "end": 2824.37,
    "text": " they came, they were superseded by Commodore and by the Apple and the IBM. They were still around"
  },
  {
    "start": 2824.37,
    "end": 2835.97,
    "text": " in the late 80s, but because Tandy switched over to the IBMs with the Tandy 1000 and its brand,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2836.61,
    "end": 2847.89,
    "text": " the, the, the predecessor or in this case, the TRS 80s fell away. They, and they were never really"
  },
  {
    "start": 2847.89,
    "end": 2856.53,
    "text": " loved. They were convenient in the sense that they were cheap. They did the job, but no one had"
  },
  {
    "start": 2856.53,
    "end": 2865.01,
    "text": " the love or the, they didn't have the passion that some of the others did because you had the"
  },
  {
    "start": 2865.01,
    "end": 2870.05,
    "text": " Commodore and you had, which was fairly passionate for a lot of people because it was their first"
  },
  {
    "start": 2870.05,
    "end": 2877.17,
    "text": " computer. It was also gaming computers. So the kids like myself would gravitate to the Commodore"
  },
  {
    "start": 2877.17,
    "end": 2884.61,
    "text": " even though you kind of took it, you look at basics and Commodore 64 basic was terrible,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2884.61,
    "end": 2892.05,
    "text": " but you didn't have that sort of emotional tie with the TRS 80. And then when the, as you would"
  },
  {
    "start": 2892.05,
    "end": 2897.17,
    "text": " with the Apple too, now I think the Apple too had a little bit more because you had,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2897.17,
    "end": 2905.01,
    "text": " you essentially had jobs in Wozniak and you also paid this, this very high amount for this,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2905.01,
    "end": 2908.93,
    "text": " this pretty thing. So you kind of felt like you had to fight for it."
  },
  {
    "start": 2908.93,
    "end": 2916.29,
    "text": " Also it had a lot going for it. Like the already, you already mentioned it, it had expansion"
  },
  {
    "start": 2916.29,
    "end": 2920.61,
    "text": " capability. It was a really good computer that it shouldn't be under a same age."
  },
  {
    "start": 2921.57,
    "end": 2928.13,
    "text": " Back to the TRS 80. Sure, sure. You said software. Now what we skipped was games?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2928.13,
    "end": 2933.09,
    "text": " Are there any games? I think good games. There are some good games. There's also some"
  },
  {
    "start": 2933.09,
    "end": 2940.21,
    "text": " demonstration games. There was one called the Dancing Demon. That's considered one of the more"
  },
  {
    "start": 2940.21,
    "end": 2948.37,
    "text": " favorite that I see a lot in the chats because I think it has some of the better animation."
  },
  {
    "start": 2949.25,
    "end": 2956.45,
    "text": " There was actually a Flight Simulator too. That actually did 3D graphics. So while you couldn't"
  },
  {
    "start": 2956.45,
    "end": 2964.69,
    "text": " have the detail, say with the Apple too, you did have that. There were some graphics like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2964.69,
    "end": 2973.89,
    "text": " Then pretty much all the text games, so like the Zorks definitely were moved over"
  },
  {
    "start": 2973.89,
    "end": 2980.21,
    "text": " because that's relatively easy to do. So text based games, Infocom probably was there."
  },
  {
    "start": 2980.21,
    "end": 2989.25,
    "text": " What other ones? Most, but there really wasn't a whole lot of games on the TRS 80s themselves."
  },
  {
    "start": 2989.25,
    "end": 2996.37,
    "text": " That was moved over to the color computers. Those are worth a lot of the games that were played."
  },
  {
    "start": 2996.37,
    "end": 3001.33,
    "text": " So you would have your munchers and so forth. Now there were some games that were brought back,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3002.37,
    "end": 3010.13,
    "text": " but games were never a thing for the TRS 80. It was never considered a game machine."
  },
  {
    "start": 3010.13,
    "end": 3019.09,
    "text": " It was a very business-oriented machine. Okay, so this is probably also a reason, as you said,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3019.09,
    "end": 3027.41,
    "text": " for it being a more obscure and forgotten computer because you don't have emotional ties to it."
  },
  {
    "start": 3027.41,
    "end": 3031.97,
    "text": " If you don't have emotional ties to it, and it's just a small computer from the beginning of the"
  },
  {
    "start": 3031.97,
    "end": 3040.85,
    "text": " 80s, I mean it obviously sold reasonably well. It's made an impact for at least for its company,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3040.85,
    "end": 3047.89,
    "text": " for RadioShack to continue producing computers. You said they transitioned to PC compatibles,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3047.89,
    "end": 3056.21,
    "text": " and they also removed RadioShack from the name. There's one, I mean, I don't know if it's true,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3056.21,
    "end": 3065.17,
    "text": " but one take on that is that they wanted to get rid of the name RadioSkrap or TRS 80,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3065.17,
    "end": 3072.29,
    "text": " which were synonyms for these computers. Right, because they didn't have the personal or the"
  },
  {
    "start": 3072.29,
    "end": 3082.53,
    "text": " public view that, say, the Atari or the Commodore had. The TRS 80 is a common trope, because it"
  },
  {
    "start": 3082.53,
    "end": 3090.85,
    "text": " didn't have the pretty graphics, it didn't have the look, and it was considered a subcom..."
  },
  {
    "start": 3090.85,
    "end": 3096.29,
    "text": " I should say, not a substandard computer. Even though it worked perfectly fine, it had all the"
  },
  {
    "start": 3096.29,
    "end": 3102.21,
    "text": " necessary tools to do it, and for a business owner, it can do a lot. And of course, it did"
  },
  {
    "start": 3102.21,
    "end": 3106.21,
    "text": " something that most of the others didn't do, and that was the home automation side of things,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3107.01,
    "end": 3112.61,
    "text": " because of its tie with RadioShack. Yeah, they liked it. Actually, the Tandies for a while"
  },
  {
    "start": 3112.61,
    "end": 3119.41,
    "text": " actually proved very useful. The Tandy 1000, the PC compatibles, they were actually pushing"
  },
  {
    "start": 3119.41,
    "end": 3126.93,
    "text": " things a little. They pushed some of the boundaries, because the IBM, at the time, the IBM PC"
  },
  {
    "start": 3126.93,
    "end": 3134.13,
    "text": " didn't have great graphics, didn't have any of that, but the Tandy 1000 did. That's why you have"
  },
  {
    "start": 3134.13,
    "end": 3142.61,
    "text": " the Tandy standard. When you look at early PC graphics, you'll see Tandy there. That's because"
  },
  {
    "start": 3142.61,
    "end": 3155.57,
    "text": " Tandy pushed for more colors in this 320, this space that usually is with the CGA. It went past that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3155.57,
    "end": 3163.01,
    "text": " and was considered a viable option for computer graphics in the early 80s with the"
  },
  {
    "start": 3164.05,
    "end": 3172.45,
    "text": " IBM compatibles. Before we come to the model that you brought with you, because of course,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3172.45,
    "end": 3181.49,
    "text": " you couldn't bring the model one with you for a legability reason, I would say. I would say"
  },
  {
    "start": 3181.49,
    "end": 3188.13,
    "text": " you do have one with you. But before we come to that, a final thing. So if someone who's listening"
  },
  {
    "start": 3188.13,
    "end": 3196.29,
    "text": " to this podcast wants to relive the TRS80 days, what are the options today? Obviously, you said"
  },
  {
    "start": 3196.29,
    "end": 3203.81,
    "text": " you brought yours from the US. If, for example, me, I will go to Las Vegas in January, if I could"
  },
  {
    "start": 3203.81,
    "end": 3208.93,
    "text": " pick up one and bring it here, it would be even though, even if someone would give the computer"
  },
  {
    "start": 3208.93,
    "end": 3215.25,
    "text": " to me for free, it would be very, very expensive to get it here. The shipping would be high."
  },
  {
    "start": 3216.37,
    "end": 3224.61,
    "text": " 150 to 200 euros, just to ship. So, and we already established that there is probably not a high,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3224.61,
    "end": 3232.13,
    "text": " there's not a high chance to find one used on eBay in Europe, or is there?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3232.13,
    "end": 3239.97,
    "text": " Well, let me put it, let me say one thing about that. Okay. The power supply that I got for my"
  },
  {
    "start": 3239.97,
    "end": 3248.61,
    "text": " model one, the one that I just found is a European plug. So they're out there somewhere."
  },
  {
    "start": 3248.61,
    "end": 3254.37,
    "text": " They're out there somewhere. If you are interested in hunting in Moundown, I suspect you could find"
  },
  {
    "start": 3254.37,
    "end": 3260.45,
    "text": " one. I see one. I see one on eBay. Yeah. It's 200 euros and it's just the keyboard. Yeah. And then"
  },
  {
    "start": 3260.45,
    "end": 3267.57,
    "text": " you just simply have to hook it up. But that what you might have to have an interface. I don't know"
  },
  {
    "start": 3267.57,
    "end": 3274.05,
    "text": " if that's, if it's the keyboard or if it's the model one, because there is an interface, it is"
  },
  {
    "start": 3274.05,
    "end": 3283.81,
    "text": " needed, it does need to be tied to the monitor. Then I see a user manual for 40 euros. So if you"
  },
  {
    "start": 3283.81,
    "end": 3288.05,
    "text": " don't have anything, you at least have that. But what are the real options right now? Is there"
  },
  {
    "start": 3288.05,
    "end": 3293.49,
    "text": " emulation? Yes, there is. There is definitely a lot of emulation for that. So you can go in and"
  },
  {
    "start": 3293.49,
    "end": 3299.25,
    "text": " check things out. I'm thinking about I might use an emulator just to program some basic,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3299.25,
    "end": 3309.17,
    "text": " because it's the, the editing on computer is interesting, because that doesn't allow you to"
  },
  {
    "start": 3309.17,
    "end": 3320.61,
    "text": " edit at all the places, but you can edit the line, a line of code. And it is very deep in the sense"
  },
  {
    "start": 3320.61,
    "end": 3328.37,
    "text": " that you have a lot of controls in that editing. But it is very, if you do not have a manual,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3328.37,
    "end": 3336.69,
    "text": " it is very confusing and becomes a problem. So the 40 euros are probably justified for the manual?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3336.69,
    "end": 3342.61,
    "text": " I don't know. So is there anything, if you have such a computer, some computers, they have known"
  },
  {
    "start": 3342.61,
    "end": 3350.13,
    "text": " weak spots. They know the capacitors are all, you know, is there something like that that is known"
  },
  {
    "start": 3350.13,
    "end": 3356.61,
    "text": " to you? Not that I know of for the capacitor. It's not, I haven't seen any weak capacitors."
  },
  {
    "start": 3356.61,
    "end": 3363.41,
    "text": " So you didn't have to do any maintenance on your models because they just turned on?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3363.41,
    "end": 3368.69,
    "text": " Yeah, they returned on. I could check, I could check the, I mean, all the capacitors definitely leak"
  },
  {
    "start": 3368.69,
    "end": 3375.73,
    "text": " over time. I probably could spend like a freaking, like a half a year or four years just replacing"
  },
  {
    "start": 3375.73,
    "end": 3380.93,
    "text": " the capacitors and all the systems that I have. But there are some, there are cases like the Amiga,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3380.93,
    "end": 3390.05,
    "text": " I think it's 600 and 1200 where you have to, where you have to swap a lot of parts because"
  },
  {
    "start": 3390.05,
    "end": 3397.49,
    "text": " they're known to all break down. So this is like a replacement on 1200. I have a 1200,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3397.49,
    "end": 3402.77,
    "text": " I made a 1200. And yes, I had to replace all the capacitors. So that's what I mean. That's more"
  },
  {
    "start": 3402.77,
    "end": 3407.17,
    "text": " like the kind of thing that I mean, but if there is no such weak spot, then all the better."
  },
  {
    "start": 3407.17,
    "end": 3415.49,
    "text": " I don't think so. Yeah, great. Yeah. They weren't cutting as many, I guess the components were"
  },
  {
    "start": 3415.49,
    "end": 3418.69,
    "text": " better built back then. I don't know, you could, you can make that assumption."
  },
  {
    "start": 3418.69,
    "end": 3428.53,
    "text": " Yeah. Yeah. On the other hand, there are these notorious reefer classitors, which definitely"
  },
  {
    "start": 3428.53,
    "end": 3434.13,
    "text": " are. Yes. Thank you for reminding me about the reefer's. So because I did replace them on my"
  },
  {
    "start": 3434.13,
    "end": 3442.21,
    "text": " TRS-80 model three, because the power supplies, while the rest of the power supply is fine,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3442.21,
    "end": 3449.01,
    "text": " the reefer's definitely because I could see the cracking. So I replaced those,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3449.01,
    "end": 3454.05,
    "text": " friend of them. I forgot about that. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. The reefer's,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3454.93,
    "end": 3459.65,
    "text": " you probably could get away with not having them there, but I had a friend who had some. So"
  },
  {
    "start": 3459.65,
    "end": 3466.69,
    "text": " I asked for it. Now we come to the first computer that we mentioned, the first TRS-80 that we"
  },
  {
    "start": 3466.69,
    "end": 3474.93,
    "text": " mentioned in this podcast an age ago, when we started it, it is the TRS-80 model 100. And I said,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3474.93,
    "end": 3483.17,
    "text": " it's neither TRS nor is it 80. I said it's not TRS because it's actually a model from a Japanese"
  },
  {
    "start": 3483.17,
    "end": 3491.25,
    "text": " company called Kyocera. And it's not 80 because it doesn't have the Z80 in it, but it has like"
  },
  {
    "start": 3491.25,
    "end": 3499.09,
    "text": " CPU in it that has an 80 in it. It seems to be an Intel 8085, which is a strange."
  },
  {
    "start": 3499.09,
    "end": 3505.41,
    "text": " That sounds like an Intel. Like that's a strange chip. So it's a portable computer. And not only"
  },
  {
    "start": 3505.41,
    "end": 3511.73,
    "text": " that, it's really, it is really portable. It's pocketable even. It is, I think you could, yeah,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3511.73,
    "end": 3517.33,
    "text": " you could have like maybe in a backpack. Yeah. Yeah, like that's what I mean. Yeah. So it is,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3517.33,
    "end": 3523.65,
    "text": " it is very light. It is, I am like holding it right now and I have, you can hold it in one hand."
  },
  {
    "start": 3523.65,
    "end": 3534.13,
    "text": " It is, ah, it is a overly thick iPad. It's essentially, you could say that. Yeah. It's a"
  },
  {
    "start": 3534.13,
    "end": 3541.17,
    "text": " very thick iPad with a keyboard. And it is, it's a bit heavier than my very lightweight normal"
  },
  {
    "start": 3541.17,
    "end": 3549.65,
    "text": " notebook with 1.3 kilograms. That is not much. I guess that's a lot better. I feel like this would"
  },
  {
    "start": 3549.65,
    "end": 3556.45,
    "text": " be close to about just just a kilo. But okay, okay, I'm just reading what that says here. And it's,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3556.45,
    "end": 3564.45,
    "text": " it's running on four AA batteries, which is, which is amazing for next to 20 hours. Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 3564.45,
    "end": 3574.93,
    "text": " For about 20 hours. It's that there are no, the LED or say the display is very classic LCD."
  },
  {
    "start": 3574.93,
    "end": 3586.61,
    "text": " Non-backlit. Yeah. Non-backlit. It is, it has the standard LCD ghosting. You can change the"
  },
  {
    "start": 3586.61,
    "end": 3599.33,
    "text": " contrast, but, but yeah, it just, it, it was very good for reporters back in the, in the 1980s,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3599.33,
    "end": 3606.85,
    "text": " because they could carry it around and then type in their correspondence and then has an RS232 port,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3606.85,
    "end": 3613.97,
    "text": " so it could, they could send that information out. And it also has a good T-bar. Yeah. It has a nice"
  },
  {
    "start": 3615.81,
    "end": 3622.53,
    "text": " there you go. It has a very nice physical keyboard, the, the mechanical keyboards that"
  },
  {
    "start": 3622.53,
    "end": 3629.49,
    "text": " everybody likes to talk about. Now, and if we said that the Tendi, the, the TRS80, the original was"
  },
  {
    "start": 3629.49,
    "end": 3637.09,
    "text": " a success, this one was even more because it was sold under different brands. They shipped"
  },
  {
    "start": 3637.09,
    "end": 3646.61,
    "text": " around 6 million of them in, in total worldwide, which means in opposition to the TRS80 that we"
  },
  {
    "start": 3646.61,
    "end": 3652.77,
    "text": " talked about in this podcast, you can actually go and buy one right now for not a whole lot of"
  },
  {
    "start": 3652.77,
    "end": 3657.65,
    "text": " money. I mean, everything is expensive today if it's retro, but it's possible to find one of these"
  },
  {
    "start": 3657.65,
    "end": 3665.57,
    "text": " and they usually work and it's, I think it's a nice, like, yeah, it's a nice. If you wanted to get"
  },
  {
    "start": 3665.57,
    "end": 3670.53,
    "text": " into that, this is probably a very good start. You don't have to, you don't have to worry about"
  },
  {
    "start": 3670.53,
    "end": 3678.29,
    "text": " Hertz or voltages too much. All you have to do is pop in some batteries."
  },
  {
    "start": 3678.29,
    "end": 3686.69,
    "text": " You will have to deal with cassettes or find a way to get data in and out of it. However,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3687.65,
    "end": 3696.29,
    "text": " that's all. Now, there are some caveats. One of them is this computer cannot count"
  },
  {
    "start": 3696.29,
    "end": 3703.49,
    "text": " above the year 2000. So whatever you, you, you should make sure that it happens before the year"
  },
  {
    "start": 3703.49,
    "end": 3712.21,
    "text": " 2000, which is like generally a good kind of advice, I think. I could see it having the problem"
  },
  {
    "start": 3712.21,
    "end": 3718.21,
    "text": " that would be built, baked into the raw, but it does have the ability to have extra ROMs. There"
  },
  {
    "start": 3718.21,
    "end": 3727.09,
    "text": " is a switch. It also comes with basics. So it's a computer that you can, yeah, you can get some"
  },
  {
    "start": 3727.09,
    "end": 3736.13,
    "text": " basic skills. And it is in a certain point, it has some historic value in Germany because there was"
  },
  {
    "start": 3736.13,
    "end": 3742.45,
    "text": " a, a hack in the 80s. It's called the BTX hack. Have you ever heard of that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3742.45,
    "end": 3743.65,
    "text": " No, I haven't."
  },
  {
    "start": 3743.65,
    "end": 3752.37,
    "text": " There was a kind of online service that the Deutsche Post had. It was called BTX for built"
  },
  {
    "start": 3752.37,
    "end": 3761.41,
    "text": " chump text, like screen text. And you could log in. And the CCC, the hacking club in Germany,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3762.05,
    "end": 3767.89,
    "text": " they wanted to prove that it is unsafe so that you can hack into it and you can read personal"
  },
  {
    "start": 3767.89,
    "end": 3775.65,
    "text": " data, which the post set isn't possible. But they, yeah, they obviously they, they managed to,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3775.65,
    "end": 3784.21,
    "text": " to get into the account of a bank, but not in their banking account, but into their BTX account."
  },
  {
    "start": 3784.21,
    "end": 3791.73,
    "text": " And then they had like, they had the bank call their website, whatever it is called, like the"
  },
  {
    "start": 3791.73,
    "end": 3799.17,
    "text": " site that they had, which was billing them for 999 every time. So, and that, there was,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3799.17,
    "end": 3805.09,
    "text": " there was a point in the whole hack where this had to be automated. The bank had to, you know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3805.09,
    "end": 3813.89,
    "text": " automatically. And that was done with a TRS 80, model 100, which I never knew, but I found out,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3813.89,
    "end": 3822.61,
    "text": " doing the research for this episode. It's strange. Okay, Richard, thank you so much for being here"
  },
  {
    "start": 3822.61,
    "end": 3829.25,
    "text": " and talking with me about the TRS 80. Thank all of you for listening so long to us. I don't know"
  },
  {
    "start": 3829.25,
    "end": 3836.53,
    "text": " how long the spot guys is. I don't know. We'll have a last coffee today, I think. And if you want"
  },
  {
    "start": 3836.53,
    "end": 3842.21,
    "text": " to meet Richard, you're probably, you'll be on the next vintage computing festival. Oh, yeah,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3842.21,
    "end": 3851.65,
    "text": " is that? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, I'm a regular at our monthly and bi-monthly meeting, virtual meets."
  },
  {
    "start": 3851.65,
    "end": 3860.61,
    "text": " We do a, a, a virtual meet where essentially a bunch of us, us friends get together and just hang"
  },
  {
    "start": 3860.61,
    "end": 3868.37,
    "text": " out. We do old computers. Literally, actually tomorrow, we plan to, I plan to go down to a"
  },
  {
    "start": 3868.37,
    "end": 3878.13,
    "text": " place called elab or Berlin creators. And that is where we just simply put together old computers"
  },
  {
    "start": 3878.13,
    "end": 3884.85,
    "text": " and just play with them. So I'll probably bring my cocoa to computer there because I want to see"
  },
  {
    "start": 3884.85,
    "end": 3892.13,
    "text": " if I can get it. I want to install a mod so that I can display more than just the,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3893.89,
    "end": 3901.57,
    "text": " the R signal that's there. But, and then two weeks or sorry, three weeks from now at the"
  },
  {
    "start": 3901.57,
    "end": 3912.13,
    "text": " last Saturday of each month, we have an Amiga meet where we set up Amiga's generally. But it's the,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3912.13,
    "end": 3919.57,
    "text": " but any computer can be brought in and we'll be happy to help if you have problems with it,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3919.57,
    "end": 3925.89,
    "text": " or if you just want to say hi. So we'll put links to all of that in the show. So if you're in"
  },
  {
    "start": 3925.89,
    "end": 3932.61,
    "text": " Berlin or the Berlin area, just drop by or drop by the VCFB, which is a year from now, I guess,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3932.61,
    "end": 3938.29,
    "text": " this along quite a long time to the next VCFB, I reckon, but all the other stuff is happening."
  },
  {
    "start": 3938.29,
    "end": 3945.89,
    "text": " And if you want to read anything about retro media in general, it is probably a good idea to"
  },
  {
    "start": 3945.89,
    "end": 3953.89,
    "text": " look at golem.de. I'm not sure how many people who listen to this are Germans. I'm not even sure"
  },
  {
    "start": 3953.89,
    "end": 3958.93,
    "text": " where this podcast is going to fit in the whole podcast thing that I'm doing, but we'll find out"
  },
  {
    "start": 3958.93,
    "end": 3963.57,
    "text": " together. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you, Richard, and see you next time."
  }
]