[ { "start": 0.02, "end": 5.58, "text": "I grew up in a house that he built in the 30s in Switzerland." }, { "start": 6.66, "end": 11.86, "text": "So, of course, I was like very close to that Bauhaus legacy." }, { "start": 12.42, "end": 18.38, "text": "My name is Peter Fischli and I'm the son of Hans Fischli. I'm Gina Fischli." }, { "start": 18.66, "end": 22.9, "text": "I'm an artist and I'm a granddaughter of Hans Fischli." }, { "start": 23.14, "end": 29.98, "text": "I'm Fredi Fischli. I'm the grandson of Hans Fischli. and I'm a curator and" }, { "start": 29.98, "end": 34.02, "text": "I'm working on an exhibition for Zentrum Paul Klee on Hans Fischli." }, { "start": 34.7, "end": 39.48, "text": "My name is Anja Guttenberger and this is my podcast bauhaus faces." }, { "start": 55.29, "end": 60.43, "text": "Welcome back to a brand new episode of bauhaus faces. Thanks for tuning in again." }, { "start": 60.87, "end": 66.15, "text": "This time we are going to talk about the Swiss architect and artist Hans Fischli." }, { "start": 66.89, "end": 72.15, "text": "I was really happy to have been able to interview not only one, but three Fischlis." }, { "start": 72.49, "end": 77.09, "text": "His son, Peter, and his grandson and granddaughter, Fredi and Gina." }, { "start": 77.35, "end": 81.97, "text": "In our conversation, we concentrated on trying to get close to Hans Fischli as" }, { "start": 81.97, "end": 83.63, "text": "a person and to some of his works." }, { "start": 84.31, "end": 88.39, "text": "Therefore, this time you will hear about the biographical information from me." }, { "start": 88.77, "end": 93.15, "text": "Because my interview partners sometimes use specific German words that are not" }, { "start": 93.15, "end": 97.71, "text": "so easy to translate, I decided to compile a glossary for you in the show notes." }, { "start": 97.93, "end": 101.89, "text": "So, whenever you are hearing a German word, please have a look there to find" }, { "start": 101.89, "end": 103.31, "text": "the English translation for it." }, { "start": 103.99, "end": 108.25, "text": "If you are a first-time listener of bauhaus faces, please don't forget to subscribe" }, { "start": 108.25, "end": 112.77, "text": "to the podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube or wherever you are listening." }, { "start": 112.77, "end": 117.97, "text": "And I would be very happy if you left a 5-star-rating to help make the podcast" }, { "start": 117.97, "end": 121.77, "text": "more visible for others who don't know about bauhaus faces yet." }, { "start": 122.21, "end": 128.61, "text": "So, without much further ado, let's now dive into a new episode of bauhaus faces" }, { "start": 128.61, "end": 131.55, "text": "and shine a light on Hans Fischli." }, { "start": 134.56, "end": 138.88, "text": "Hans Fischli was born on October 9, 1909 in Zurich." }, { "start": 139.26, "end": 143.12, "text": "After failing the admission examination for the teacher training seminar," }, { "start": 143.6, "end": 147.0, "text": "Fischli tried to find an apprenticeship as bricklayer or carpenter." }, { "start": 147.44, "end": 153.72, "text": "However, due to some health issues, Fischli suffered from severe asthma attacks, no one accepted him." }, { "start": 154.32, "end": 160.4, "text": "Finally, he found a position as draftsman in the architecture office Ruggli in Zurich in 1925." }, { "start": 161.22, "end": 166.44, "text": "In the \"Bauzeitung\", an architectural magazine, Hans Fischli read about the Weißenhof" }, { "start": 166.44, "end": 170.84, "text": "Estate in Stuttgart, headed by the well-known architect Ludwig Mies van der Rohe." }, { "start": 171.24, "end": 175.46, "text": "(Just a quick recommendation here to also listen to my podcast about Mies in" }, { "start": 175.46, "end": 178.38, "text": "which you will find out what the Weißenhof Estate meant for him." }, { "start": 178.76, "end": 181.4, "text": "Spoiler alert, it was a real turning point." }, { "start": 182.08, "end": 186.48, "text": "Fischli spontaneously decided to go and see the Estate for himself and bought" }, { "start": 186.48, "end": 190.48, "text": "a ticket to Stuttgart, and he was impressed by the architecture that you saw there." }, { "start": 191.24, "end": 195.56, "text": "On his way back home, Fischli read several brochures of the Weißenhof Estate" }, { "start": 195.56, "end": 200.44, "text": "and learned that one of the houses was by Walter Gropius, founder and first" }, { "start": 200.44, "end": 201.54, "text": "director of the Bauhaus." }, { "start": 202.62, "end": 208.02, "text": "Around the same time, Fischli visited an exhibition of abstract art at the Kunsthaus in Zurich." }, { "start": 208.2, "end": 213.94, "text": "In his autobiography, \"Rapport\", which he published in 1978, Fischli described" }, { "start": 213.94, "end": 216.94, "text": "that since then there was a restlessness in me." }, { "start": 217.2, "end": 223.24, "text": "He now wanted to study architecture and painting with Paul Klee and Wassily Kandinsky," }, { "start": 223.54, "end": 225.88, "text": "both teachers at the Bauhaus in Dessau." }, { "start": 226.94, "end": 232.46, "text": "So he applied, sending construction plans, drawings, paintings, and photographs." }, { "start": 232.74, "end": 237.34, "text": "One of it was a square moon that is still in the family, as Gina and Peter told me." }, { "start": 238.0, "end": 245.16, "text": "I have this drawing with the square moon, and you sometimes tell this story" }, { "start": 245.16, "end": 247.86, "text": "that this was something he did in the Vorkurs, no?" }, { "start": 248.26, "end": 254.36, "text": "When he wanted to go to the Bauhaus, he had to send some works." }, { "start": 254.36, "end": 262.2, "text": "So one of the work that he was sending them was a drawing of a square moon." }, { "start": 262.6, "end": 264.74, "text": "And of course he was accepted." }, { "start": 265.24, "end": 269.18, "text": "And I mean, yeah, he was 19. He understood what they wanted." }, { "start": 270.54, "end": 276.78, "text": "His parents finally agreed to pay for one year the 120 Marks he needed as a monthly support." }, { "start": 277.46, "end": 281.22, "text": "He avoided the final exam of his apprenticeship as a draftsman." }, { "start": 281.22, "end": 285.34, "text": "On the day of his exam, Fischli was sitting on a train to Dessau." }, { "start": 286.08, "end": 290.5, "text": "Hans Fischli arrived on April 11th, 1928 at the Bauhaus in Dessau." }, { "start": 290.96, "end": 295.06, "text": "Like everyone else, he started his studies at the Bauhaus, with the so-called" }, { "start": 295.06, "end": 298.34, "text": "Vorkurs, the preliminary course, with Josef Albers." }, { "start": 298.76, "end": 302.74, "text": "What stuck to his brain for the rest of his life was Albers' motto: \"" }, { "start": 303.18, "end": 308.16, "text": "make the most of what little you have,\" which he applied to the buildings he later designed." }, { "start": 308.82, "end": 313.84, "text": "The month that Fischli came to the Bauhaus was also the beginning of a new era of the school." }, { "start": 314.52, "end": 317.88, "text": "Walter Gropius had just left the Bauhaus and Hannes Meyer had taken over," }, { "start": 318.26, "end": 321.78, "text": "ready to change the structure of the workshops and the overall alignment." }, { "start": 322.44, "end": 326.16, "text": "If you're interested in that topic, please find my episode of bauhaus faces" }, { "start": 326.16, "end": 327.8, "text": "about Hannes Meyer with Dara Kiese." }, { "start": 328.8, "end": 332.06, "text": "Unfortunately, there are no works preserved from that time." }, { "start": 332.6, "end": 337.72, "text": "After the Vorkurs, Fischli was admitted to the wall painting workshop, headed by Hinnerk Scheper." }, { "start": 338.2, "end": 342.08, "text": "As member of the wallpainting workshop, he painted the newly built houses of" }, { "start": 342.08, "end": 343.14, "text": "the Dessau-Törten Estate." }, { "start": 343.76, "end": 350.06, "text": "He later wrote that, In addition to learning our craft, we also got to know the new houses well." }, { "start": 350.36, "end": 354.54, "text": "For me, this was the people's version of Stuttgart's Weißenhof Estate," }, { "start": 354.76, "end": 356.14, "text": "which had prompted me to come here." }, { "start": 357.18, "end": 362.38, "text": "During his second semester, Fischli participated in a wallpaper competition, which" }, { "start": 362.38, "end": 365.72, "text": "the wallpaper company Gebrüder Rasch had launched for the Bauhaus students." }, { "start": 366.16, "end": 369.2, "text": "Most designs that the company bought were by Fischli." }, { "start": 369.76, "end": 374.14, "text": "He received 239 Reichsmark and 16 Pfennig." }, { "start": 374.82, "end": 378.92, "text": "But his designs were lost, so we don't know today what they actually looked like." }, { "start": 379.86, "end": 383.92, "text": "The two-semester attendance in which the students were supposed to learn a craft" }, { "start": 383.92, "end": 386.9, "text": "was required to be finally admitted to the building department," }, { "start": 386.9, "end": 388.94, "text": "but this never happened for Fischli." }, { "start": 389.98, "end": 393.16, "text": "Although he had come to the Bauhaus to be trained as an architect," }, { "start": 393.48, "end": 397.32, "text": "Fischli left at the end of March 1929 after only one year." }, { "start": 397.88, "end": 402.52, "text": "Why, is somewhat unclear. Maybe his parents couldn't afford the monthly support" }, { "start": 402.52, "end": 404.68, "text": "of 120 Reichsmarks anymore." }, { "start": 405.72, "end": 408.66, "text": "After all, they had agreed on only one year." }, { "start": 409.44, "end": 414.04, "text": "Until 1930, though, he was still registered at the Bauhaus on leave." }, { "start": 414.38, "end": 418.92, "text": "For a while, he was sure he would come back, but it turned out differently for him." }, { "start": 419.56, "end": 422.64, "text": "Even though Fischli had never studied architecture at the Bauhaus," }, { "start": 422.74, "end": 425.36, "text": "he indeed made first attempts on becoming an architect." }, { "start": 425.8, "end": 430.06, "text": "For a competition, he designed a kindergarten and neighborhood center in Zurich" }, { "start": 430.06, "end": 434.82, "text": "as a collaborative project with his Swiss fellow student Max Bill in 1928." }, { "start": 435.68, "end": 440.14, "text": "Although they had high hopes of winning the competition, their plans flopped" }, { "start": 440.14, "end": 442.54, "text": "and they were eliminated in the first round." }, { "start": 443.46, "end": 447.72, "text": "\"Unbalanced structures\" was the merciless verdict of the jury's report." }, { "start": 449.01, "end": 453.75, "text": "When he came back, he refused to go to military service." }, { "start": 453.99, "end": 459.33, "text": "And within the prison cell where they locked him up in the village of Meilen," }, { "start": 459.71, "end": 466.45, "text": "he did drawings of biological cells where you can really see the learnings from" }, { "start": 466.45, "end": 472.47, "text": "the Bauhaus, but in freer forms, not in a dogmatic, modernist way." }, { "start": 472.47, "end": 478.45, "text": "But he would position himself as this pacifist that would be working." }, { "start": 478.77, "end": 485.61, "text": "Although then when he got out of the cell, he realized the danger and the resistance." }, { "start": 486.19, "end": 489.17, "text": "And then he entered voluntarily to the military." }, { "start": 489.55, "end": 491.87, "text": "So this \"Zellengebilde,\"" }, { "start": 492.01, "end": 494.43, "text": "these drawings are like super beautiful." }, { "start": 494.81, "end": 499.77, "text": "Sometimes I regret that he was not longer in prison. No, he had to be like 90" }, { "start": 499.77, "end": 502.67, "text": "days and there are nine. Every day he made one of these." }, { "start": 503.79, "end": 507.11, "text": "Back from prison, Hans Fischli shortly returned to his old teacher," }, { "start": 507.21, "end": 510.95, "text": "Robert Ruggli, but quickly applied as a draftsman in the architecture office" }, { "start": 510.95, "end": 515.11, "text": "of Karl Hubacher and Rudolf Steiger, two architects that were bringing the new" }, { "start": 515.11, "end": 516.21, "text": "building to Switzerland." }, { "start": 517.45, "end": 521.79, "text": "Fischli was surprised that he got the job. He was 20 years old at that point" }, { "start": 521.79, "end": 525.37, "text": "and started working on the Swiss Werkbund Neubühl Estate." }, { "start": 526.27, "end": 530.65, "text": "First, he was responsible for drawing the submission plans. In 1930," }, { "start": 530.69, "end": 534.19, "text": "he was assigned to the office responsible for constructing the Estate." }, { "start": 534.53, "end": 538.11, "text": "This is Fredi describing the Neubühl Estate in Zurich for you." }, { "start": 539.73, "end": 545.37, "text": "It's situated on top of a hill, so a little bit in comparison to the house that" }, { "start": 545.37, "end": 548.67, "text": "he built Hans Fischli for himself and his parents." }, { "start": 548.87, "end": 554.15, "text": "They had to move out of the city to find it, and through this," }, { "start": 554.37, "end": 557.47, "text": "it is very much embedded with the landscape." }, { "start": 558.23, "end": 563.39, "text": "You get all these greeneries in between, and you sit on top of this hill," }, { "start": 563.49, "end": 568.43, "text": "and you can look down to the lake. It's like super idyllic, but at the time" }, { "start": 568.43, "end": 572.57, "text": "it was like regarded as something, suburbs, like out of it." }, { "start": 572.71, "end": 578.37, "text": "And then it's really built as one master plan, the way that you circulate." }, { "start": 578.51, "end": 583.19, "text": "Also that when you come in, there is a children's daycare." }, { "start": 583.43, "end": 588.77, "text": "There is the fountain that Hans Fischli built also as a communal place where you can go." }, { "start": 589.51, "end": 594.39, "text": "There is this studio for guests. I think that they also were," }, { "start": 594.53, "end": 595.95, "text": "that is still functioning today." }, { "start": 596.21, "end": 599.11, "text": "And I think this was also built from the start." }, { "start": 599.41, "end": 602.61, "text": "And it's built existential minimum." }, { "start": 602.93, "end": 610.89, "text": "It's super cheap and small, but it has a lot of terraces and gathering places for communal living." }, { "start": 611.09, "end": 617.37, "text": "It was so central that it was this Siedlung, because otherwise there were singular" }, { "start": 617.37, "end": 621.59, "text": "modernist buildings, like the factories or the house that he would be building." }, { "start": 621.59, "end": 627.53, "text": "But the whole programmatic idea of also building for existential minimum," }, { "start": 627.91, "end": 634.95, "text": "but in a beautiful way, with a garden within nature sitting on top of the hill." }, { "start": 635.21, "end": 640.67, "text": "It was like the presentation of how we should build for the future." }, { "start": 641.53, "end": 645.83, "text": "Hans Fischli once wrote about his time with Hubacher and Steiger: \"In" }, { "start": 645.83, "end": 648.65, "text": "the office, it's not just drawing plans that makes money." }, { "start": 648.65, "end": 652.85, "text": "If you remember Albers, you become an employee who has a say.\"" }, { "start": 653.69, "end": 658.19, "text": "Hans Fischli was thriving on challenges and rose from draftsman to architect" }, { "start": 658.19, "end": 659.45, "text": "of the new building style." }, { "start": 660.33, "end": 663.65, "text": "Now, it was time to establish his own architectural office." }, { "start": 664.97, "end": 670.73, "text": "He worked also a little bit in other offices, but then he was a very charismatic figure." }, { "start": 670.95, "end": 674.75, "text": "He wouldn't be the one that could be working with others." }, { "start": 674.77, "end": 679.93, "text": "It was more about him that also set up his own system of working." }, { "start": 680.31, "end": 687.63, "text": "And within that, there was Michel Parasol, your godfather and adopted brother" }, { "start": 687.63, "end": 694.57, "text": "that lost his family in Paris and was adopted by the family and lived with them," }, { "start": 694.71, "end": 701.57, "text": "but also worked heavily kind of his whole life with Hans Fischli running the office." }, { "start": 702.67, "end": 706.83, "text": "Yeah, but unfortunately, Michel Parasol is no more here." }, { "start": 706.99, "end": 712.49, "text": "He could like tell all this story because he was right from the beginning on always in the office." }, { "start": 712.97, "end": 715.23, "text": "But I don't know the details." }, { "start": 716.13, "end": 720.39, "text": "I was not born back then when he was coming back from the Bauhaus." }, { "start": 720.39, "end": 726.29, "text": "I just know these stories also by him telling about them." }, { "start": 727.55, "end": 732.31, "text": "His masterpiece and first house as an independent architect was the so-called" }, { "start": 732.31, "end": 735.67, "text": "\"Schlehstud\" in Obermeilen that he built for his own family." }, { "start": 735.93, "end": 742.11, "text": "It is a rational, unsentimental house made of wood with a protruding flat roof." }, { "start": 743.09, "end": 746.37, "text": "It was built through and through in the spirit of classical modernism." }, { "start": 746.69, "end": 750.03, "text": "Big windows flooded the rooms with natural light." }, { "start": 750.39, "end": 754.59, "text": "Only the most necessary space was calculated, cheap materials used," }, { "start": 754.75, "end": 758.25, "text": "and the building was adapted to the hilly building site." }, { "start": 758.93, "end": 762.35, "text": "From the east, it seems to be a single-storey bungalow; f" }, { "start": 762.69, "end": 766.51, "text": "rom the south, a long, beautiful house with more windows than wards; f" }, { "start": 766.73, "end": 770.35, "text": "rom the west, it looks like a narrow, three-storey building." }, { "start": 770.97, "end": 776.15, "text": "The family moved into the ship-like house after only 100 days of construction time." }, { "start": 777.34, "end": 784.86, "text": "He went quite young to the Bauhaus, and then he came back and he wanted to build" }, { "start": 784.86, "end": 791.8, "text": "a house, and he convinced his father, my grandfather to" }, { "start": 791.8, "end": 795.5, "text": "sell their house in Zurich." }, { "start": 795.62, "end": 801.72, "text": "They had a small house, so he convinced them to sell that house," }, { "start": 801.9, "end": 807.2, "text": "and with that money they could build the \"Schlehstud\". Because of course," }, { "start": 807.36, "end": 811.82, "text": "when you are 24, you don't have a client for doing that." }, { "start": 812.0, "end": 817.74, "text": "So it's kind of astonishing that my grandfather said yes to that." }, { "start": 817.94, "end": 823.5, "text": "Also a certain risk, because he had no experience. It was his first house. But" }, { "start": 823.5, "end": 824.72, "text": "he was at the Bauhaus." }, { "start": 824.9, "end": 830.68, "text": "But back then, it's like the Bauhaus then didn't have a legacy, you" }, { "start": 830.68, "end": 835.2, "text": "know, it was not, it's just like some insiders would know," }, { "start": 835.46, "end": 841.36, "text": "\"Oh, this is a really good school.\" But it was not like a household thing that" }, { "start": 841.36, "end": 844.9, "text": "knowing that Bauhaus is something. So my grandfather," }, { "start": 845.53, "end": 850.41, "text": "in a way, trusted him. But the budget was not big, you know," }, { "start": 850.49, "end": 855.29, "text": "because that house, it was like an Reihenhaus back then a little bit in the" }, { "start": 855.29, "end": 857.31, "text": "suburbs of Zurich, in Wollishofen." }, { "start": 857.73, "end": 864.11, "text": "So they had like to look for cheap land and a cheap way of doing it." }, { "start": 864.33, "end": 871.19, "text": "And the cheap land they found, now it's an irony, they found it at the Goldküste," }, { "start": 871.41, "end": 875.53, "text": "which is now the most expensive land or place." }, { "start": 875.81, "end": 881.73, "text": "And also back then in the Thirties, there was also no Bauzonen." }, { "start": 882.09, "end": 884.93, "text": "You could build a house wherever you wanted." }, { "start": 885.51, "end": 891.31, "text": "And the more you went up the hill, the cheaper it came." }, { "start": 891.53, "end": 895.21, "text": "So then he built that house up there." }, { "start": 895.45, "end": 902.15, "text": "And the deal was also with my grandfather that this would be the house for the" }, { "start": 902.15, "end": 904.45, "text": "whole family, including them." }, { "start": 904.85, "end": 910.11, "text": "So I grew also up with my grandfather and grandmother." }, { "start": 910.43, "end": 914.61, "text": "Grandmother was blind, so she needed a little bit of help." }, { "start": 915.11, "end": 920.53, "text": "I mean, construction-wise, it was, as I said, it was like very simple." }, { "start": 920.81, "end": 928.87, "text": "It was a steel skeleton and the rest all with wood, so just like wood boards" }, { "start": 928.87, "end": 932.37, "text": "but they were like placed horizontal and" }, { "start": 933.51, "end": 937.05, "text": "not like as you would know it, like from these American houses," }, { "start": 937.05, "end": 939.97, "text": "they would be vertical, but these were horizontal." }, { "start": 940.41, "end": 943.95, "text": "So a very, very simple way of doing it." }, { "start": 944.07, "end": 949.31, "text": "There was no basement because then you had to make a Baugrube and all these things." }, { "start": 949.71, "end": 953.41, "text": "So they, yeah, that's expensive." }, { "start": 953.69, "end": 961.65, "text": "So everything that would be on the ground floor, it was, I would say, two thirds was open." }, { "start": 961.65, "end": 969.45, "text": "And this was like his studio for making sculptures, seine Werkstatt." }, { "start": 969.79, "end": 977.97, "text": "And then the second floor on the right side, it was the rooms for my grandparents." }, { "start": 978.47, "end": 983.61, "text": "And on the left side, it was the family where we lived." }, { "start": 984.37, "end": 991.83, "text": "And then on the top floor with a nice terrace and a beautiful studio, it was his studio." }, { "start": 992.05, "end": 995.33, "text": "So he also organized it a little bit clever." }, { "start": 995.59, "end": 998.83, "text": "So he had like, yeah, he had the Filetstück." }, { "start": 999.81, "end": 1006.49, "text": "Yeah. And something that was also like super special, the staircase was outside." }, { "start": 1006.83, "end": 1012.73, "text": "The house had no staircase inside, also for making it more simple." }, { "start": 1013.39, "end": 1018.31, "text": "So in winter, when we had to go to another floor, we always had to go out," }, { "start": 1018.49, "end": 1023.35, "text": "which then my mother, at a certain moment, I think she protested," }, { "start": 1023.49, "end": 1026.15, "text": "and they made like a provisory staircase, s" }, { "start": 1026.85, "end": 1033.41, "text": "o one could go up to his floor, you know, not going outside." }, { "start": 1033.97, "end": 1039.63, "text": "Then my parents, they divorced in the mid-60s. But I think the first thing he" }, { "start": 1039.63, "end": 1043.39, "text": "did was taking the stair out. I don't know." }, { "start": 1043.84, "end": 1048.7, "text": "Yeah, also, it's like, it's always the problem when you build a house," }, { "start": 1048.88, "end": 1054.26, "text": "that the rooms that you eat up too many space for Verkehrswege," }, { "start": 1054.58, "end": 1060.18, "text": "you know, so then this was like something separate and it made it just like very clear." }, { "start": 1060.18, "end": 1065.12, "text": "And the house was quite radical in his simplicity." }, { "start": 1065.72, "end": 1072.36, "text": "So one thing was also, like, big windows didn't exist then, or they existed," }, { "start": 1072.5, "end": 1074.3, "text": "or would be, like, super expensive." }, { "start": 1074.68, "end": 1081.0, "text": "So he used single glass, which is, like, for heating, not the best," }, { "start": 1081.18, "end": 1087.08, "text": "and industrial glass, because the industrial glass is also cheaper." }, { "start": 1087.08, "end": 1091.28, "text": "But industrial glass, it doesn't have an even thickness." }, { "start": 1092.28, "end": 1098.0, "text": "So when you were standing and looking – and the view is the best possible view" }, { "start": 1098.0, "end": 1101.7, "text": "you can imagine, because you had all the Swiss mountains." }, { "start": 1102.06, "end": 1108.6, "text": "But when we were standing in the living room and moving our head up and down," }, { "start": 1108.8, "end": 1112.96, "text": "the landscape would make psychedelic distortions." }, { "start": 1113.66, "end": 1116.18, "text": "So this is just like an example." }, { "start": 1116.8, "end": 1121.48, "text": "Also, the technique for the flat roof was not" }, { "start": 1121.48, "end": 1124.58, "text": "mature, but he wanted to do it." }, { "start": 1124.88, "end": 1128.86, "text": "It was done like very simple, so it was leaking." }, { "start": 1129.46, "end": 1134.66, "text": "But this was like then on the top floor. This was something we were not allowed" }, { "start": 1134.66, "end": 1138.64, "text": "to talk about, you know. It was the elephant in the room." }, { "start": 1138.94, "end": 1142.38, "text": "And just like once a year, they did a paint job." }, { "start": 1142.58, "end": 1148.12, "text": "It was just like overpainting it. And it was not leaking that like water would" }, { "start": 1148.12, "end": 1150.58, "text": "fall in my soup. Not like that." }, { "start": 1151.87, "end": 1156.27, "text": "It's still existent. Unfortunately, it's no more in the family." }, { "start": 1157.07, "end": 1162.11, "text": "My father sold it, or he made a contract for selling it a year before he died." }, { "start": 1162.91, "end": 1167.99, "text": "It's quite outstanding how simple the house has been done." }, { "start": 1168.23, "end": 1175.91, "text": "I think the original budget was only 20,000 Swiss francs. 18,000 Swiss francs." }, { "start": 1176.05, "end": 1179.21, "text": "Like a really low number for a big house," }, { "start": 1179.95, "end": 1186.77, "text": "with the land and everything. Also, there was something like nearly spartanic about it." }, { "start": 1186.99, "end": 1196.01, "text": "I mean, like all this Bauhaus kind of glamorous or luxury thing that was total absent." }, { "start": 1196.01, "end": 1202.03, "text": "And back then, everything, like the room that I lived in it and had to share" }, { "start": 1202.03, "end": 1209.79, "text": "with my brother, it had space for two beds and just like a corridor to get to your bed." }, { "start": 1209.93, "end": 1213.33, "text": "But the kitchen was like incredibly small." }, { "start": 1213.71, "end": 1219.31, "text": "Everything was like this idea of the minimum, no?! It was like very important." }, { "start": 1219.31, "end": 1222.27, "text": "Also the doors for" }, { "start": 1222.27, "end": 1225.99, "text": "the kitchen and the bedroom were" }, { "start": 1225.99, "end": 1229.41, "text": "only 45 centimeters like" }, { "start": 1229.41, "end": 1232.85, "text": "very small because it's just like eating up" }, { "start": 1232.85, "end": 1240.19, "text": "space. And I remember he told me that he measured back then when you went on" }, { "start": 1240.19, "end": 1246.77, "text": "a train the train doors were also like very small and he measured just the door" }, { "start": 1246.77, "end": 1251.19, "text": "of the trains which was like 45 centimeters and said," }, { "start": 1251.47, "end": 1253.99, "text": "well, everybody can get in and out." }, { "start": 1254.29, "end": 1256.03, "text": "Why should I make bigger doors?" }, { "start": 1256.49, "end": 1262.25, "text": "I mean, when he got older, he had quite a nice belly. And so he had like to squeeze him." }, { "start": 1263.15, "end": 1265.83, "text": "But all these decisions were very programmatic." }, { "start": 1266.85, "end": 1270.55, "text": "With the experience of building his own house, the \"Schlehstud\"," }, { "start": 1270.97, "end": 1275.07, "text": "Fischli planned the workers' settlement \"Gwad\" in Wädenswil in 1943." }, { "start": 1275.73, "end": 1279.63, "text": "The terrace settlement was established on the initiative of Walter Blattmann," }, { "start": 1279.87, "end": 1281.71, "text": "an industrialist from Wädenswil." }, { "start": 1282.27, "end": 1287.53, "text": "A cooperative was founded, local authorities had made land available under building law." }, { "start": 1288.03, "end": 1292.87, "text": "This way, local workers were given the opportunity to build their own home with" }, { "start": 1292.87, "end": 1294.87, "text": "little or no capital of their own." }, { "start": 1295.69, "end": 1300.17, "text": "They contributed their labor, and the architect planned the houses cost-effectively." }, { "start": 1301.09, "end": 1304.81, "text": "Fischli calculated how big a house could be for a family in which the father," }, { "start": 1305.07, "end": 1309.67, "text": "with wife and four children, earned 6,000 francs in 1942." }, { "start": 1310.29, "end": 1314.45, "text": "His result was that they could afford a house of 82 square meters." }, { "start": 1314.71, "end": 1318.55, "text": "Each house couldn't cost more than 18,000 francs, he calculated." }, { "start": 1319.21, "end": 1324.07, "text": "And he also calculated the permissible shaded area for the development of the" }, { "start": 1324.07, "end": 1326.61, "text": "property, based on the angle of the sunlight." }, { "start": 1327.61, "end": 1331.27, "text": "The rows of houses were staggered on top of each other in the north-south" }, { "start": 1331.27, "end": 1335.19, "text": "orientation so that the apartments received morning and evening sun." }, { "start": 1336.05, "end": 1340.87, "text": "The result was an entire village in which every house had a view of the" }, { "start": 1340.87, "end": 1342.33, "text": "lake over the neighboring roofs." }, { "start": 1343.47, "end": 1346.87, "text": "Adapted to the slope of the terrain, the settlement was barely visible." }, { "start": 1347.96, "end": 1351.8, "text": "28 families moved in and lived in healthy conditions in a modern," }, { "start": 1352.04, "end": 1353.08, "text": "cost-saving settlement." }, { "start": 1354.1, "end": 1359.06, "text": "Fischli knew about his social responsibility. It was something that he had learned at the Bauhaus." }, { "start": 1359.5, "end": 1364.74, "text": "In an interview on Swiss television in 1981, Fischli said that he had learned" }, { "start": 1364.74, "end": 1368.0, "text": "at the Bauhaus \"to think new from the very start.\"" }, { "start": 1368.18, "end": 1372.34, "text": "And that \"new architecture didn't just mean to build a house with a flat roof," }, { "start": 1372.58, "end": 1377.52, "text": "but that the new form,\" according to Fischli, \"develops from the lighting of the rooms.\"" }, { "start": 1378.32, "end": 1383.04, "text": "His strong social commitment and his understanding of new modern architecture" }, { "start": 1383.04, "end": 1387.9, "text": "is also evident in his involvement in the planning and realization of the Pestalozzi" }, { "start": 1387.9, "end": 1391.74, "text": "children's village in Trogen between 1944 and 1949," }, { "start": 1392.06, "end": 1395.04, "text": "this time in a more traditionally Swiss style." }, { "start": 1396.56, "end": 1400.86, "text": "Mr. Blattmann, the initiator of the workers' settlement, then commissioned Hans" }, { "start": 1400.86, "end": 1404.12, "text": "Fischli to plan a new metalware factory in Wädenswil." }, { "start": 1404.58, "end": 1409.06, "text": "Fischli himself enjoyed designing factory buildings even more than private houses" }, { "start": 1409.06, "end": 1415.78, "text": "because \"industrial clients give you their full support since you build objectively," }, { "start": 1416.16, "end": 1420.1, "text": "that means based on function, and since you think about the economic aspects.\"" }, { "start": 1420.84, "end": 1424.9, "text": "Fischli stressed in an interview that the Bauhaus not only educated and formed" }, { "start": 1424.9, "end": 1428.04, "text": "architects, but also the first industrial designers." }, { "start": 1428.6, "end": 1433.76, "text": "\"At the Bauhaus,\" he said, \"we assumed that designs should be made for industry," }, { "start": 1433.96, "end": 1436.06, "text": "suitable for machines or materials.\"" }, { "start": 1437.18, "end": 1440.62, "text": "This approach and buildings like the Bauhaus in Dessau itself," }, { "start": 1440.8, "end": 1446.48, "text": "or the ADGB Trade Union School in Bernau, all very deliberately used ideas from" }, { "start": 1446.48, "end": 1450.54, "text": "factory buildings to construct efficiently and to keep costs low:" }, { "start": 1450.94, "end": 1456.16, "text": "big windows with opening mechanisms to open several windows at once," }, { "start": 1456.72, "end": 1460.32, "text": "shed roofs or skylights to direct natural light into the building," }, { "start": 1460.86, "end": 1466.42, "text": "long glass passageways or bridges to connect different parts of a building, and so on." }, { "start": 1467.2, "end": 1470.96, "text": "Fischli seems to have done a satisfactory job on the metalware factory," }, { "start": 1471.18, "end": 1474.98, "text": "as the Blattmans recommended him to the company Adolf Feller AG," }, { "start": 1474.98, "end": 1479.9, "text": "for whom Fischli would plan numerous buildings during the next three decades." }, { "start": 1480.64, "end": 1484.28, "text": "He always started with what he had internalized at the Bauhaus:" }, { "start": 1484.46, "end": 1486.5, "text": "to look at the basic factors." }, { "start": 1486.7, "end": 1491.42, "text": "So, for factories, Fischli studied the workflow of the production before even" }, { "start": 1491.42, "end": 1494.38, "text": "thinking about the building to understand what is being needed," }, { "start": 1494.78, "end": 1497.46, "text": "where what is needed and how it is supposed to look." }, { "start": 1498.51, "end": 1503.25, "text": "This way, he was able to involve the owners and operation managers and make" }, { "start": 1503.25, "end": 1506.91, "text": "sure to uncover errors and voids early on in the process." }, { "start": 1508.35, "end": 1513.41, "text": "Fischli then looked at the nature of the construction site, hilly or even landscape," }, { "start": 1513.65, "end": 1516.87, "text": "and at what materials to use to keep costs within limits." }, { "start": 1517.53, "end": 1521.87, "text": "His factory buildings for the Blattmanns and the Fellers are not only functional" }, { "start": 1521.87, "end": 1526.69, "text": "and satisfiedFischli's clients, but they also look beautiful and extraordinary." }, { "start": 1527.45, "end": 1532.93, "text": "For an extension building for the Feller AG, a manufacturer of electrical engineering products," }, { "start": 1533.41, "end": 1538.63, "text": "he translated the shed roof onto the facade, this way creating a unique look" }, { "start": 1538.63, "end": 1545.55, "text": "of zig-zag-glazing and at the same time supplying the rooms behind it with indirect natural light." }, { "start": 1546.55, "end": 1551.91, "text": "This helped promote the face of the company, too. It also embodies a clear vision" }, { "start": 1551.91, "end": 1556.73, "text": "of modern architecture and design, an interplay of functionality and aesthetics." }, { "start": 1559.52, "end": 1564.12, "text": "The first was the house in Meilen, and through this, in a way," }, { "start": 1564.2, "end": 1573.9, "text": "he managed to have these clients that was the factory Feller and the factory Metallbau Blattmann." }, { "start": 1574.52, "end": 1581.52, "text": "These were then the big clients in the beginning, but also before it was the Pestalozzidorf." }, { "start": 1581.52, "end": 1590.16, "text": "And the Pestalozzidorf, which was an asylum for children that came from France" }, { "start": 1590.16, "end": 1594.92, "text": "or Germany, Jewish, you know. This was like the beginning." }, { "start": 1596.54, "end": 1599.84, "text": "In the beginning, just speaking of the anti-fascist movement," }, { "start": 1599.84, "end": 1603.78, "text": "I think you should also mention your mother, Elena Fischli-Dreher," }, { "start": 1603.98, "end": 1610.24, "text": "who was really coming from the partisan movement out of Italy and was strongly" }, { "start": 1610.24, "end": 1613.42, "text": "involved with children, children's education," }, { "start": 1613.98, "end": 1617.42, "text": "therefore also the building of Trogen, Pestalozzi," }, { "start": 1618.06, "end": 1624.52, "text": "not just as an architect, but really as a dealing with the world was so much embedded." }, { "start": 1625.82, "end": 1630.5, "text": "I think Switzerland was also a little bit like divided then." }, { "start": 1631.3, "end": 1638.22, "text": "And, yeah, that's what's showing the history of Switzerland, is that certain" }, { "start": 1638.22, "end": 1641.58, "text": "people had sympathy for Nazi Germany. B" }, { "start": 1641.58, "end": 1649.58, "text": "ut then there was this strong will to sneak through with neutrality and stay out of the war." }, { "start": 1649.8, "end": 1653.92, "text": "And one of the symbols was the Landesausstellung." }, { "start": 1654.32, "end": 1659.16, "text": "That was very important. That Hans Fischli also was working with." }, { "start": 1659.48, "end": 1664.56, "text": "He was the Chefadjudant from the general architect." }, { "start": 1665.4, "end": 1670.0, "text": "For the \"Landesausstellung\", the Swiss national exhibition (also affectionately" }, { "start": 1670.0, "end": 1675.32, "text": "called \"Landi\"), Hans Fischli worked as exhibition architect from 1936 to 1939." }, { "start": 1675.64, "end": 1680.06, "text": "He was responsible for the well-received amusement palace and the children's" }, { "start": 1680.06, "end": 1681.98, "text": "paradise, which he was very proud of." }, { "start": 1682.7, "end": 1686.58, "text": "Let's return to Peter and Fredi Fischli, who will now address Switzerland's" }, { "start": 1686.58, "end": 1690.8, "text": "role during the wartime and what effect it had on Swiss art and architecture." }, { "start": 1692.34, "end": 1697.9, "text": "You know, Switzerland really then tried to have this own identity." }, { "start": 1698.28, "end": 1703.62, "text": "And it was also the moment when my father, who was a pacifist," }, { "start": 1703.88, "end": 1706.48, "text": "but then he went to the army." }, { "start": 1706.7, "end": 1711.84, "text": "You know, he said, OK, but now I have to rethink my position." }, { "start": 1711.98, "end": 1718.14, "text": "And he went to the army without ... never did like the whole, this like learning" }, { "start": 1718.14, "end": 1720.6, "text": "process, the Rekrutenschule." }, { "start": 1721.1, "end": 1726.72, "text": "But he was just like then in the Planungsstab, something like that." }, { "start": 1727.18, "end": 1732.1, "text": "But the modernists had to convince against the so-called \"Heimatstil\"." }, { "start": 1732.86, "end": 1739.08, "text": "The \"Heimatstil,\" when you arrive in Zurich, you find like a fake castle that" }, { "start": 1739.08, "end": 1743.26, "text": "was also built as a kind of nationalistic idea." }, { "start": 1743.94, "end": 1746.72, "text": "The Landesmuseum it is now." }, { "start": 1747.44, "end": 1754.06, "text": "And slowly, through this like little circle also around Siegfried and Carola" }, { "start": 1754.26, "end": 1758.92, "text": "Giedeon, of internationally connected modernists, they could," }, { "start": 1759.16, "end": 1764.48, "text": "through Landesausstellung and things that would be representative," }, { "start": 1765.24, "end": 1770.18, "text": "get into the kind of main culture of Switzerland." }, { "start": 1770.4, "end": 1774.88, "text": "But it was like a small group of people, universities and art schools." }, { "start": 1775.5, "end": 1780.5, "text": "What Fredi mentioned, it's interesting because there was like this geistiger" }, { "start": 1780.5, "end": 1786.88, "text": "Widerstand. But this geistiger Widerstand, it was not like completely open for" }, { "start": 1786.88, "end": 1790.48, "text": "modernists because they had like this kind of Heimatstil." }, { "start": 1790.48, "end": 1798.84, "text": "And they are some really interesting architects like Hans Leutzinger." }, { "start": 1799.0, "end": 1806.46, "text": "And they were like influenced a little bit by the regional way of how to build houses." }, { "start": 1806.7, "end": 1810.36, "text": "And they wanted to use the same materials." }, { "start": 1811.52, "end": 1820.08, "text": "And it was called \"Unaufgeregte Moderne\". Not like really looking for a provocative different style." }, { "start": 1820.48, "end": 1828.08, "text": "But just like how to embed it in a certain way in something what Fredi described: \"Heimatstil\"." }, { "start": 1829.14, "end": 1837.42, "text": "They were really looking at these kind of houses and not going for a complete interruption." }, { "start": 1839.38, "end": 1842.66, "text": "We have now discussed Hans Fischli's architecture quite extensively." }, { "start": 1843.38, "end": 1846.84, "text": "Let's have a short look at his development as a painter for a moment." }, { "start": 1847.44, "end": 1852.84, "text": "After his first steps during his 90-day imprisonment, when he produced his Zellengebilde" }, { "start": 1853.06, "end": 1857.7, "text": "(the cell structures), his drawings and paintings gradually developed into images" }, { "start": 1857.7, "end": 1859.74, "text": "of more abstract biomorphic forms." }, { "start": 1860.82, "end": 1866.42, "text": "In 1932, Fischli became, like Max Bill, member of the Parisian artists' group" }, { "start": 1866.42, "end": 1867.96, "text": "\"Abstraction-Création.\"" }, { "start": 1868.62, "end": 1872.22, "text": "In this group, he was now eye to eye with his former Bauhaus teacher," }, { "start": 1872.38, "end": 1876.66, "text": "Wassily Kandinsky, who had also been one of the reasons why he had originally" }, { "start": 1876.66, "end": 1878.44, "text": "wanted to go study at the Bauhaus." }, { "start": 1879.22, "end": 1884.5, "text": "Fischli's paintings eventually became bigger. Following a personal and professional" }, { "start": 1884.5, "end": 1890.08, "text": "crisis after the 1947 ZÜKA exhibition – the exhibition architect was blamed for" }, { "start": 1890.08, "end": 1891.4, "text": "the poor economic success –" }, { "start": 1891.88, "end": 1894.38, "text": "Fischli underwent an intense experimental phase." }, { "start": 1894.38, "end": 1898.66, "text": "He mixed sand and ash into his pigments and hurled, crushed," }, { "start": 1898.92, "end": 1904.26, "text": "burned and crusted this mixture on wooden panels, creating aggressively expressive," }, { "start": 1904.56, "end": 1905.84, "text": "materially driven works." }, { "start": 1906.24, "end": 1909.96, "text": "It is the same time when Fischli also began with sculpture." }, { "start": 1910.86, "end": 1916.36, "text": "In the 1950s, Fischli's paintings calmed down. He now primarily turned to overlapping" }, { "start": 1916.36, "end": 1918.6, "text": "geometric structures in his compositions." }, { "start": 1919.34, "end": 1925.0, "text": "Through repeated masking, painting, sanding and polishing he produced multilayered," }, { "start": 1925.22, "end": 1928.5, "text": "translucent works. During the last years," }, { "start": 1928.9, "end": 1933.4, "text": "the circle, the square and occasionally the spiral became his preferred motifs" }, { "start": 1933.4, "end": 1939.06, "text": "in his paintings and also in his sculptures. They breathe silent meditation and" }, { "start": 1939.06, "end": 1945.64, "text": "harmony. I asked his son Peter if his father was a well-known artist. This was his answer." }, { "start": 1947.18, "end": 1952.5, "text": "In Switzerland, he was quite successful, and there was like this gallery in" }, { "start": 1952.5, "end": 1961.66, "text": "Zürich, Suzanne Bollag, which showed the Zürcher Konkrete, and he was also in that group Allianz." }, { "start": 1962.38, "end": 1968.24, "text": "So back then, it was also kind of hard to be an international artist," }, { "start": 1968.24, "end": 1972.74, "text": "also because of the war, and there was like not that many exchanges." }, { "start": 1972.74, "end": 1980.88, "text": "But he did a retrospective at the Kunsthaus in '68 and he was always working, but" }, { "start": 1980.88, "end": 1986.42, "text": "his art ... And especially in the beginning more like paintings and drawings" }, { "start": 1986.42, "end": 1992.28, "text": "and then more and more in the 60s he was doing a lot of sculpture." }, { "start": 1992.76, "end": 2000.08, "text": "This is also something that I remember from my youth. on the weekend or like in the evening he" }, { "start": 2000.08, "end": 2005.74, "text": "had extremely energy because after, like, teaching or, like," }, { "start": 2005.78, "end": 2012.42, "text": "being director of the school, he had to go to the architectural office, which he had a partner," }, { "start": 2013.52, "end": 2017.52, "text": "Eichholzer and Michel Parasol, and, I mean, they were, like," }, { "start": 2017.58, "end": 2019.74, "text": "also taking care of a lot of the things." }, { "start": 2019.9, "end": 2026.46, "text": "But then in the evening and the night, he was doing his paintings or working on his sculptures," }, { "start": 2027.24, "end": 2035.56, "text": "doing a lot of stone sculptures, which he sizzled by himself and I remember" }, { "start": 2035.56, "end": 2037.66, "text": "just always like hearing like" }, { "start": 2037.66, "end": 2046.76, "text": "this sizzle taktak taktak, and that was like on the weekend. He was just like doing that." }, { "start": 2048.43, "end": 2052.95, "text": "Yeah, like with the paintings, it was like often when he finished the painting," }, { "start": 2053.37, "end": 2057.21, "text": "then the whole family had to look at the painting." }, { "start": 2057.59, "end": 2062.97, "text": "But you just had to look at the painting, not talking too much." }, { "start": 2063.25, "end": 2068.35, "text": "And I just remember in the beginning, there were some figurative things," }, { "start": 2068.61, "end": 2073.75, "text": "but then it was like abstract or concrete, Konkrete Kunst." }, { "start": 2073.75, "end": 2079.09, "text": "And this was also something he was like really talking bad about, like figurative." }, { "start": 2079.19, "end": 2081.23, "text": "\"Oh, that's a figurative artist,\" you know." }, { "start": 2082.43, "end": 2086.75, "text": "When Hans Fischli became director of the School of Applied Arts and the Museum" }, { "start": 2086.75, "end": 2092.67, "text": "of Applied Arts in Zurich in 1954, his focus shifted to communicate what he" }, { "start": 2092.67, "end": 2095.01, "text": "had learned from his educators at the Bauhaus." }, { "start": 2095.53, "end": 2100.43, "text": "He adapted the Bauhaus idea and was inspired by Max Bill's program for the Ulm" }, { "start": 2100.43, "end": 2105.87, "text": "School of Design, the HFG Ulm. So he put the Vorkurs, the preliminary course," }, { "start": 2106.05, "end": 2108.57, "text": "at the center of the studies at the School of Applied Arts." }, { "start": 2109.25, "end": 2112.75, "text": "After an election, the head of the school authority changed." }, { "start": 2113.09, "end": 2117.47, "text": "From then on, there were constant quarrels at the school about the reform program" }, { "start": 2117.47, "end": 2121.45, "text": "and about Fischli's own architectural office that he continued to operate." }, { "start": 2122.35, "end": 2126.49, "text": "When Fischli felt that he could no longer trust the head and his colleagues," }, { "start": 2126.75, "end": 2129.07, "text": "he left the school and museum in 1961." }, { "start": 2130.37, "end": 2134.15, "text": "If you are interested in the principles and the curriculum of the Ulm School" }, { "start": 2134.15, "end": 2139.05, "text": "of Design, the HFG Ulm, you should definitely not miss to listen to my bonus" }, { "start": 2139.05, "end": 2143.85, "text": "episode on bauhaus faces with Martin Mäntele, head of the HFG Ulm Archive." }, { "start": 2144.11, "end": 2147.21, "text": "And if you are interested in listening to more about Max Bill," }, { "start": 2147.59, "end": 2150.67, "text": "there's also a whole episode waiting for you." }, { "start": 2151.65, "end": 2155.89, "text": "During our interview, Fredi told me that Hans Fischli had always been interested" }, { "start": 2155.89, "end": 2160.71, "text": "in educating people, not only as director of the School of Applied Arts in Zurich," }, { "start": 2160.87, "end": 2162.81, "text": "but from the very beginning onward," }, { "start": 2163.17, "end": 2168.05, "text": "even on the construction sites of the buildings that he designed, planned and built." }, { "start": 2169.41, "end": 2176.99, "text": "He was a big educator and working with Hans Fischli and also all the stories that I hear from him." }, { "start": 2177.65, "end": 2180.53, "text": "My mother was always so deeply impressed by him." }, { "start": 2180.69, "end": 2186.39, "text": "He could really explain you the world out of his learnings from the Bauhaus." }, { "start": 2186.61, "end": 2191.21, "text": "And I guess this building, it wasn't just only for living for him or his family," }, { "start": 2191.37, "end": 2197.29, "text": "but kind of to showing in a radical way the principles that he learned at the Bauhaus." }, { "start": 2197.29, "end": 2202.67, "text": "And then he also became this figure in the city, of course, next to Max Bill. But" }, { "start": 2202.67, "end": 2208.25, "text": "then also Hans Fischli became the director of the Kunstgewerbemuseum in" }, { "start": 2208.25, "end": 2209.33, "text": "Zürich, where the whole discourse..." }, { "start": 2210.03, "end": 2216.35, "text": "And Schule. And Schule, yeah. Through this also, he came very close to the younger generation." }, { "start": 2216.67, "end": 2222.65, "text": "But just going back to this kind of teachings: I remember when I was a young" }, { "start": 2222.65, "end": 2230.79, "text": "teenager, we often went on the weekend to see a building somewhere that he was interested." }, { "start": 2230.79, "end": 2233.69, "text": "And then he said, who wants to come?" }, { "start": 2234.21, "end": 2239.29, "text": "And for me, it was just like the possibility. Then we took the train to Geneva" }, { "start": 2239.29, "end": 2245.03, "text": "or Berne or Basel and looked at some buildings he was interested." }, { "start": 2246.65, "end": 2252.11, "text": "And once I was saying something about like a building, \"but this is also building" }, { "start": 2252.11, "end": 2254.07, "text": "the style of the Bauhaus.\"" }, { "start": 2254.37, "end": 2259.13, "text": "And then he said: \"Bauhaus is not a style. Es ist eine Gesinnung.\"" }, { "start": 2260.45, "end": 2265.95, "text": "Working as an architect and artist at the same time, that this wasn't considered" }, { "start": 2265.95, "end": 2273.45, "text": "like as different disciplines, but one understanding of how we want to build the world." }, { "start": 2273.75, "end": 2279.47, "text": "And the Kunstgewerbeschule definitely, that even people that would be working" }, { "start": 2279.47, "end": 2284.21, "text": "in fashion, like I had a neighbor, who would refer to Hans Fischli." }, { "start": 2284.41, "end": 2289.07, "text": "Like it would be really diverse, the learnings that would be happening there." }, { "start": 2289.07, "end": 2291.73, "text": "And this was also the programmatic idea." }, { "start": 2292.83, "end": 2296.41, "text": "I think the Kunstgewerbemuseum" }, { "start": 2296.41, "end": 2303.73, "text": "and Kunstgewerbeschule already had the strong Bauhaus legacy in it." }, { "start": 2303.95, "end": 2309.53, "text": "It was built by Karl Egender, which was also, I think Egender was not at the" }, { "start": 2309.53, "end": 2313.49, "text": "Bauhaus, but like very influenced of the Bauhaus." }, { "start": 2313.95, "end": 2324.07, "text": "And it was Itten that was before him also director. So, the Bauhaus idea was already there." }, { "start": 2324.21, "end": 2330.33, "text": "And that's maybe also because he was elected as a director for it." }, { "start": 2330.33, "end": 2332.65, "text": "And also because of the war." }, { "start": 2332.83, "end": 2337.05, "text": "That's also something that we often talk about, that they had to protect the" }, { "start": 2337.05, "end": 2342.77, "text": "ideas of the Bauhaus here in Switzerland, and it was closed in Germany." }, { "start": 2343.09, "end": 2348.97, "text": "So even more, it made them obliged to not overcome, but in a way," }, { "start": 2349.05, "end": 2351.49, "text": "continue the tradition of the learnings." }, { "start": 2351.49, "end": 2360.51, "text": "Yeah, I mean, that modernism was also really also the countervoice against Nazi Germany." }, { "start": 2360.51, "end": 2368.89, "text": "And so it has a much larger meaning than sometimes that you just see it as a" }, { "start": 2368.89, "end": 2373.27, "text": "movement that is like inside of art and culture." }, { "start": 2373.27, "end": 2380.79, "text": "It was like really something political. And then modernism was so much preserved" }, { "start": 2380.79, "end": 2387.93, "text": "because it had to be that maybe Switzerland, the culture, was also a little bit late to rethink." }, { "start": 2388.57, "end": 2396.93, "text": "And maybe for a next generation, it became a little bit too dogmatic that only modernism," }, { "start": 2399.59, "end": 2405.01, "text": "that this is the only way that art could be made, where if you would compare" }, { "start": 2405.01, "end": 2406.97, "text": "it to the original Bauhaus ideas," }, { "start": 2407.27, "end": 2411.71, "text": "which were much more mixed and discussed in which direction it goes," }, { "start": 2411.91, "end": 2416.85, "text": "it ended up in a maybe in a too rigid understanding of modernism." }, { "start": 2416.85, "end": 2423.41, "text": "Yeah, but when you look at it a little bit more closely, you can see that it" }, { "start": 2423.41, "end": 2427.01, "text": "was not like one day it was this and then the next day." }, { "start": 2427.19, "end": 2430.01, "text": "It was like it went step by step." }, { "start": 2430.57, "end": 2437.11, "text": "And especially in Zurich, it's interesting the example of the Hausmanns," }, { "start": 2437.45, "end": 2442.29, "text": "the architect Hausmanns. and they were like really good friends with my father." }, { "start": 2442.61, "end": 2450.91, "text": "And they were modernists then starting going like in a very Swiss way into postmodernism." }, { "start": 2451.09, "end": 2453.71, "text": "And my father was open to that." }, { "start": 2454.11, "end": 2457.95, "text": "So in a way, it was the transmission." }, { "start": 2458.17, "end": 2464.93, "text": "It was happening as a dissolve, something like that, and not an ideological war." }, { "start": 2465.27, "end": 2468.63, "text": "But you must tell the story when Hans Fischli worked together." }, { "start": 2468.63, "end": 2473.11, "text": "It's Robert Hausmann. Yeah, that's like, it's one of... This is very funny." }, { "start": 2474.47, "end": 2482.29, "text": "So for the Gartenbauausstellung in the 60s, there was ein Wettbewerb for doing" }, { "start": 2482.29, "end": 2486.57, "text": "a kiosk in all the parks around the lake." }, { "start": 2486.81, "end": 2492.51, "text": "And Hans Fischli and Robert Hausmann, they made a project together." }, { "start": 2492.53, "end": 2498.09, "text": "And the project was, let's just do a three-meter ball." }, { "start": 2498.47, "end": 2503.75, "text": "And then it could go open, and also you can place them everywhere," }, { "start": 2503.97, "end": 2510.23, "text": "like these balls, and they would be like a kiosk where people can buy sandwiches or ice cream." }, { "start": 2510.23, "end": 2513.65, "text": "And then when they had to make the plan." }, { "start": 2514.25, "end": 2520.13, "text": "Robert Hausmann said, listen, Hans, if you want that this looks," }, { "start": 2520.35, "end": 2525.53, "text": "because it's three meter, we have to make it slightly distorted." }, { "start": 2525.79, "end": 2532.47, "text": "Because when you look from down and you do a ball, it will look like a flat egg." }, { "start": 2532.67, "end": 2535.91, "text": "So we have to make it a little bit distorted." }, { "start": 2536.33, "end": 2539.79, "text": "And then my father said: \"No way!" }, { "start": 2540.23, "end": 2545.51, "text": "There is only one truth, and this is the geometrical truth.\"" }, { "start": 2545.99, "end": 2549.35, "text": "And in a way, they went apart because of that." }, { "start": 2549.57, "end": 2554.25, "text": "And Hans Fischli was clear on the point, a ball is a ball." }, { "start": 2554.59, "end": 2561.55, "text": "It's for me the best example to explain the difference between a modernist and a postmodernist." }, { "start": 2561.65, "end": 2567.67, "text": "You know, that you say, no, the postmodernist would say, no, the image is important." }, { "start": 2568.57, "end": 2576.93, "text": "I think I have to add something. They both, they reflected and they would also laugh about it." }, { "start": 2577.19, "end": 2582.33, "text": "It's not that he was not like this kind of dogmatic, you know," }, { "start": 2582.59, "end": 2586.57, "text": "they would like joking about it. It's important to say that." }, { "start": 2587.93, "end": 2595.35, "text": "In the end, I asked my favorite question, and that's: \"What is your favorite piece of art by Hans Fischli?\"" }, { "start": 2595.53, "end": 2598.65, "text": "And this is what Peter, Fredi, and Gina answered." }, { "start": 2600.19, "end": 2603.49, "text": "It goes a little bit through all the periods." }, { "start": 2604.13, "end": 2608.59, "text": "Of course, the Zellengebilde, I like a lot, like a lot of the things," }, { "start": 2608.87, "end": 2615.75, "text": "like from the 30s/40s, but then also like from the 60s, some of the sculptures." }, { "start": 2616.55, "end": 2619.85, "text": "It's not a certain period that I like most." }, { "start": 2620.23, "end": 2625.59, "text": "Yeah, just like individual works that I think they are like formally very strong." }, { "start": 2625.59, "end": 2632.33, "text": "I would say it is somewhat the early work, because maybe it's also farther away," }, { "start": 2632.53, "end": 2639.67, "text": "and the later work maybe resembles Zurich modernism that I also know from other" }, { "start": 2639.67, "end": 2642.09, "text": "artists, but like how the early work," }, { "start": 2642.55, "end": 2651.81, "text": "Klee and Albers, the teachers really push through and give also this kind of dreamy, mysterious" }, { "start": 2652.77, "end": 2654.45, "text": "figurative paintings." }, { "start": 2654.45, "end": 2657.43, "text": "Things that still I don't get it as much as like the" }, { "start": 2657.43, "end": 2661.19, "text": "later abstract work and how this playfulness" }, { "start": 2661.19, "end": 2664.53, "text": "goes together with the wooden architecture" }, { "start": 2664.53, "end": 2668.07, "text": "that is also done in a kind of humble way" }, { "start": 2668.07, "end": 2673.65, "text": "that I like a lot. Because then the later work, I also know the TV interviews" }, { "start": 2673.65, "end": 2674.77, "text": "that he did that are" }, { "start": 2674.77, "end": 2678.91, "text": "still there and you can see him as this like giant man. He" }, { "start": 2678.91, "end": 2685.23, "text": "was like really big and like so dogmatic, kind of, in a way the man that knows everything." }, { "start": 2685.53, "end": 2687.95, "text": "Then there is also a different," }, { "start": 2688.31, "end": 2691.97, "text": "more mysterious early side that I'm intrigued by." }, { "start": 2692.49, "end": 2698.67, "text": "Yeah, I also connect a lot to the Zellengebilde, but there are so many works" }, { "start": 2698.67, "end": 2702.99, "text": "that have mysterious and also tender sides that are really interesting." }, { "start": 2703.19, "end": 2708.35, "text": "But I also, I haven't seen a lot of the work yet and I'm really excited for" }, { "start": 2708.35, "end": 2713.63, "text": "the exhibition you're about to do also, to discover more and really look at things" }, { "start": 2713.63, "end": 2717.67, "text": "that were maybe in the archive for a while that I've never seen." }, { "start": 2719.3, "end": 2723.5, "text": "As you might have noticed, we haven't covered Hans Fischli's paintings and sculptures" }, { "start": 2723.5, "end": 2725.02, "text": "as much as his architecture." }, { "start": 2725.42, "end": 2728.84, "text": "But his architecture is what he is most known for today." }, { "start": 2729.54, "end": 2733.48, "text": "Fischli was one of the few architects who brought new building to Switzerland." }, { "start": 2733.96, "end": 2739.32, "text": "He added his very own and personal note by using wood as building material to" }, { "start": 2739.32, "end": 2743.14, "text": "keep construction costs low and to coin a very specific appearance." }, { "start": 2743.72, "end": 2747.94, "text": "There are many more buildings that Hans Fischli designed that we haven't mentioned" }, { "start": 2747.94, "end": 2749.1, "text": "in this podcast episode." }, { "start": 2749.3, "end": 2754.4, "text": "Single-story holiday houses, a studio house for the Bauhaus master Oskar Schlemmer," }, { "start": 2754.66, "end": 2756.9, "text": "and multi-story apartment buildings." }, { "start": 2757.3, "end": 2761.86, "text": "If you want to know more about Hans Fischli, you can find all relevant links," }, { "start": 2761.88, "end": 2763.4, "text": "as always, in the show notes." }, { "start": 2763.68, "end": 2768.64, "text": "Or you just go and visit the exhibition at Zentrum Paul Klee that Fredi is currently arranging." }, { "start": 2768.96, "end": 2774.02, "text": "From the end of January 2026, he will exhibit paintings and drawings by Hans" }, { "start": 2774.02, "end": 2776.9, "text": "Fischli within the Kosmos Klee of Zentrum Paul Klee." }, { "start": 2776.9, "end": 2781.4, "text": "If you liked this episode or any other episode of bauhaus faces," }, { "start": 2781.66, "end": 2786.5, "text": "please don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube and recommend" }, { "start": 2786.5, "end": 2788.44, "text": "it to your friends, family or colleagues." }, { "start": 2788.7, "end": 2793.06, "text": "And don't forget to subscribe to my podcast newsletter on bauhaus faces.com" }, { "start": 2793.06, "end": 2796.42, "text": "to stay up to date about new episodes of bauhaus faces." }, { "start": 2796.76, "end": 2803.68, "text": "And now, there's nothing left to say but tune in next time for a new episode of bauhaus faces." } ]