[
  {
    "start": 17.02,
    "end": 36.48,
    "text": "Hello and welcome to a new episode of Bitcoin Fiat & Rock'n Roll, the podcast where we explore from a European perspective."
  },
  {
    "start": 36.58,
    "end": 45.26,
    "text": "My name is Michael Blaschke, I'm one of your co-hosts and so often i am not doing this alone with me as our fellow co host Stefan."
  },
  {
    "start": 45.36,
    "end": 46.64,
    "text": "Stefan, great to have you here!"
  },
  {
    "start": 47.04,
    "end": 53.84,
    "text": "Hi Michael, hi everybody And today we've got guests that are really looking forward to joining us for London."
  },
  {
    "start": 54.019,
    "end": 55.84,
    "text": "I assume it's Pat Patel."
  },
  {
    "start": 56.64,
    "end": 57.78,
    "text": "Welcome to the show."
  },
  {
    "start": 58.18,
    "end": 60.379,
    "text": "Thank you very much, Miquel and Stefan."
  },
  {
    "start": 61.019,
    "end": 63.68,
    "text": "I used to be in London but now live in Singapore."
  },
  {
    "start": 63.92,
    "end": 68.4,
    "text": "so yes...I struggle with both countries But i spend most of my time in Singapore."
  },
  {
    "start": 68.84,
    "end": 70.28,
    "text": "Yeah great cities to live in."
  },
  {
    "start": 70.42,
    "end": 71.52,
    "text": "I enjoyed living in London."
  },
  {
    "start": 71.82,
    "end": 72.2,
    "text": "Manuel."
  },
  {
    "start": 72.28,
    "end": 74.84,
    "text": "our co-hosts enjoy living in Singapore."
  },
  {
    "start": 74.98,
    "end": 76.1,
    "text": "Singapore is still on my list."
  },
  {
    "start": 76.62,
    "end": 77.22,
    "text": "Cannot wait"
  },
  {
    "start": 77.82,
    "end": 78.66,
    "text": "It's a great place."
  },
  {
    "start": 79.2,
    "end": 89.5,
    "text": "Let me quickly tell our listeners why we are so excited To have you here because Your career touches almost every part of how modern financial infrastructure got built."
  },
  {
    "start": 89.86,
    "end": 105.06,
    "text": "So you started at VocaLink working on the UK's faster payment services, which is I think the world's first national real-time retail payments system back in two thousand days similar to Switzerland's Twin maybe?"
  },
  {
    "start": 105.58,
    "end": 111.96,
    "text": "You then launched money twenty twenty Europe and which has become a major fintech event in Europe."
  },
  {
    "start": 112.039,
    "end": 131.06,
    "text": "In twenty nineteen you joined the monetary authority in Singapore and your very first month there coincided with this pivotal moment, with Facebook presenting Libra than PM And while at Mars You spun out Elevandy Which has now grown into GFTN today?"
  },
  {
    "start": 138.28,
    "end": 146.24,
    "text": "of Moja loop and open-source software project aimed at more cost effective and inclusive instant payment systems."
  },
  {
    "start": 146.859,
    "end": 157.9,
    "text": "So you've been a software builder, an event convener regulator insider And now you orchestrate public private dialogue globally such as the point zero forum."
  },
  {
    "start": 158.079,
    "end": 162.079,
    "text": "Zurich quieter combination pet That's only short version."
  },
  {
    "start": 162.22,
    "end": 163.22,
    "text": "are happy with that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 163.299,
    "end": 164.0,
    "text": "or is there anything?"
  },
  {
    "start": 165.18,
    "end": 166.2,
    "text": "So it's a lot."
  },
  {
    "start": 166.299,
    "end": 174.88,
    "text": "It feels like this is your life or This Is My Life and I don't know, when i think about it everything is about these sliding doors moments."
  },
  {
    "start": 175.06,
    "end": 175.34,
    "text": "so i don't."
  },
  {
    "start": 175.38,
    "end": 180.46,
    "text": "if you've seen the movie...I think it was Gwyneth Paltrowes one of her first movies."
  },
  {
    "start": 180.64,
    "end": 193.9,
    "text": "she was in way back in the nineties And um..you have those sliding door moment where You can either take One Path Or Another pretty much characterised a great deal of my life."
  },
  {
    "start": 194.079,
    "end": 216.28,
    "text": "And so moving on from the insurance world, where I first started my career in The Heart Of London and then moving into payments because a good friend of mine said... In two thousand seven he says look, payment is an interesting inflection point And the world is moving from physical to digital."
  },
  {
    "start": 216.98,
    "end": 224.299,
    "text": "There are a lot of changes happening and people will start making payments with their mobile phones, it would be very popular."
  },
  {
    "start": 226.76,
    "end": 229.359,
    "text": "took the leap of faith and moved into the payment sector."
  },
  {
    "start": 230.079,
    "end": 243.079,
    "text": "And then, same with the move from Vocalink in to Money Twenty-Twenty I was working on a really big deal at Vocalinks... ...and i think spent best part two years on this deal."
  },
  {
    "start": 244.4,
    "end": 245.4,
    "text": "It didn't come through!"
  },
  {
    "start": 246.96,
    "end": 250.46,
    "text": "When it did not came though.. ..I decided that had leave."
  },
  {
    "start": 251.26,
    "end": 256.48,
    "text": "I felt a little bit emotional at the time, and so i took that leap of an opportunity."
  },
  {
    "start": 256.579,
    "end": 262.98,
    "text": "there came to move which is a strange move from being in the payment sector into an events company."
  },
  {
    "start": 263.06,
    "end": 264.54,
    "text": "Which you know was money twenty-twenty."
  },
  {
    "start": 265.1,
    "end": 275.16,
    "text": "although it wasn't a normal events company It was run by two founders That had just sold their business into google And it Was probably one Of the wildest rides In The early Years."
  },
  {
    "start": 275.24,
    "end": 283.24,
    "text": "So working with Two crazy Founders Building out what they were doing in Las Vegas and the plus side I got to go to las Vegas for like six years in a row."
  },
  {
    "start": 283.9,
    "end": 289.72,
    "text": "And building, What They Were Doing In Las Vegas Taking It To Europe taking it to Singapore or taking it China?"
  },
  {
    "start": 290.52,
    "end": 297.18,
    "text": "Then another sliding doors moment when i met Sopin Dumahanti who is Or was The Chief FinTech Officer at the MAS."
  },
  {
    "start": 298.8,
    "end": 303.88,
    "text": "He convinced me to leave the events world and come join him as in the MAS."
  },
  {
    "start": 304.88,
    "end": 308.18,
    "text": "That was another kind of really strange move."
  },
  {
    "start": 308.34,
    "end": 312.44,
    "text": "Of all places where people ask me, why didn't you go to the FCA or The Bank of England?"
  },
  {
    "start": 313.16,
    "end": 314.68,
    "text": "I'm quite glad i did!"
  },
  {
    "start": 315.28,
    "end": 319.54,
    "text": "I've realized a lot things about this part of the world that are really warm too."
  },
  {
    "start": 319.76,
    "end": 324.58,
    "text": "is one...the people and culture And energy we're seeing across Southeast Asia."
  },
  {
    "start": 325.34,
    "end": 327.1,
    "text": "South-Asia is pretty phenomenal."
  },
  {
    "start": 327.36,
    "end": 328.56,
    "text": "So yeah it's been wild ride."
  },
  {
    "start": 329.94,
    "end": 334.12,
    "text": "Yeah, it's funny when you think about the things you've done because you don't tend to look back."
  },
  {
    "start": 334.74,
    "end": 336.32,
    "text": "You're always looking forward."
  },
  {
    "start": 336.86,
    "end": 345.56,
    "text": "so When you come on podcasts like this It's a reminder of the things that you've Done and sometimes there are moments where you feel ah maybe I could have done something different."
  },
  {
    "start": 345.66,
    "end": 346.68,
    "text": "This sounds so different."
  },
  {
    "start": 346.72,
    "end": 351.62,
    "text": "these different Positions in your career is their common threat across all of them?"
  },
  {
    "start": 352.24,
    "end": 353.62,
    "text": "So um There's probably two things."
  },
  {
    "start": 354.74,
    "end": 362.76,
    "text": "Being On The Edge Of What You Know The insurance sector at the beginning was probably a little bit less, but a vocal link."
  },
  {
    "start": 363.3,
    "end": 369.88,
    "text": "If you think... Vocal Link was the company that built the first real-time clearing system."
  },
  {
    "start": 370.38,
    "end": 384.48,
    "text": "Prior to that, you had something in Japan called Zenjin which was built in the nineteen seventies but it was built off a real-time gross settlement system whereas this is the first kind of real time payment system for retail payments on national level."
  },
  {
    "start": 384.98,
    "end": 395.2,
    "text": "and so The same with Money Twenty-Twenty, because Money Twenty Twenty redefined the way the event sector worked."
  },
  {
    "start": 395.24,
    "end": 401.66,
    "text": "Because you know prior to Money Twenty twenty you would have banking conferences for bankers payments conferences for Payments."
  },
  {
    "start": 401.72,
    "end": 416.44,
    "text": "folks investor conferences for investors was what Many Twenty Twenty did is bring all of those communities together in one place Bring a DJ in add the fun factor back and no one at these events wore suits."
  },
  {
    "start": 417.14,
    "end": 430.52,
    "text": "And it was the first time I went to Vegas in twenty-twelve, with the First Money Twenty-Twenty."
  },
  {
    "start": 432.8,
    "end": 440.66,
    "text": "a sea of people in trainers and jeans, casual wear."
  },
  {
    "start": 441.3,
    "end": 444.96,
    "text": "I got back up the escalator, got changed came down again."
  },
  {
    "start": 446.42,
    "end": 447.68,
    "text": "so it's kind of edge."
  },
  {
    "start": 447.88,
    "end": 448.66,
    "text": "what was going on?"
  },
  {
    "start": 449.02,
    "end": 454.98,
    "text": "we didn't know at that time but beginning of fintech they thought building payments conference."
  },
  {
    "start": 459.26,
    "end": 462.7,
    "text": "And you had people, the founders of Coinbase."
  },
  {
    "start": 462.8,
    "end": 471.44,
    "text": "You have Vitalik there and all these guys that were still scrambling around looking to try in fine deals, pitch... All sorts!"
  },
  {
    "start": 471.86,
    "end": 473.36,
    "text": "The founders of Wires where they're as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 474.04,
    "end": 482.72,
    "text": "so it was quite a surreal experience but its theme being on the edge what industry currently knows?"
  },
  {
    "start": 483.06,
    "end": 484.42,
    "text": "pushing those boundaries forward."
  },
  {
    "start": 484.96,
    "end": 491.86,
    "text": "then same with MAS Probably one of the most progressive regulators."
  },
  {
    "start": 492.48,
    "end": 520.159,
    "text": "And you have a supervisory side, but you have development-side which is unusual because normally two are split in most marketplaces whereas when we had together they unique access and quite rightly pointed out that within first month being there Libra sent big delegation to come into MAS do an open Q&A behind closed doors, obviously."
  },
  {
    "start": 520.74,
    "end": 540.62,
    "text": "But that access where it was phenomenal and then getting the opportunity to spin out a startup from a regulator so secure seed capital build-a team within the regulator present into you know the senior management of MAS which is the board at the time."
  },
  {
    "start": 541.1,
    "end": 550.4,
    "text": "You have the Deputy Prime Minister Singapore on that MAS Board And you have the opportunity to kind of take an idea, build this out."
  },
  {
    "start": 550.5,
    "end": 557.36,
    "text": "Secure the capital and we secure go-up finding... ...and then spinning out from a regulator which isn't a well trodden path."
  },
  {
    "start": 557.579,
    "end": 561.339,
    "text": "I can't recall many instances that a regulator has spun out an entity?"
  },
  {
    "start": 562.62,
    "end": 569.439,
    "text": "That journey is continued with Elevandy and now GFTN because what we do at GFTn it's quite unique."
  },
  {
    "start": 570.339,
    "end": 574.16,
    "text": "There wasn't company like us Because were not event organizer."
  },
  {
    "start": 574.9,
    "end": 576.579,
    "text": "you know, when a lot of people think we are."
  },
  {
    "start": 577.26,
    "end": 585.56,
    "text": "You know, we have an events business but we kind of see them as vehicles to deliver a set of outcomes for governments and industry."
  },
  {
    "start": 586.26,
    "end": 595.219,
    "text": "And then we have in advisory business that provides solutions for public and private sector side from education and capacity building all the way through to policy advisory?"
  },
  {
    "start": 595.76,
    "end": 601.12,
    "text": "Then were going to have fund in couple months time with key partner form Japan."
  },
  {
    "start": 601.26,
    "end": 611.959,
    "text": "so it's kinda unique organization... The point you are making the common thread, it's kind of being on the edge of what I know has characterized my career to date."
  },
  {
    "start": 612.439,
    "end": 617.78,
    "text": "And then also on the flip side of that flying by the seat with my pants—I don't know if you know that phrase?"
  },
  {
    "start": 618.579,
    "end": 629.76,
    "text": "It is an English phrase where you are on the edges constantly and have a full one-side or other but you're at your end most times so…."
  },
  {
    "start": 629.98,
    "end": 635.959,
    "text": "So this characterisation probably runs rife throughout my career today."
  },
  {
    "start": 636.959,
    "end": 648.939,
    "text": "So would it then be fair to say that you certainly not only build financial products in here, I'm really thinking of the payment rails?"
  },
  {
    "start": 649.98,
    "end": 652.459,
    "text": "Not sure if its a startup or a scale up."
  },
  {
    "start": 652.52,
    "end": 653.5,
    "text": "so Moja Loops."
  },
  {
    "start": 654.16,
    "end": 666.439,
    "text": "when i prepared for this episode The common thread that I observed is You do NOT Build Financial Products Only but Really if you will, the ecosystems that allow for financial products."
  },
  {
    "start": 667.02,
    "end": 680.88,
    "text": "Either of you or all the organizations participating in the events of GFTN and Point Zero Forum to then scale ultimately scale which is a major hurdle for digital assets and digital money space?"
  },
  {
    "start": 681.0,
    "end": 682.36,
    "text": "And would be fair say"
  },
  {
    "start": 683.459,
    "end": 685.3,
    "text": "Yeah, it's along those lines."
  },
  {
    "start": 686.04,
    "end": 693.4,
    "text": "We absolutely don't build financial products or you know we're not a bank... ...we don't provide financial services and have licenses in that regard."
  },
  {
    "start": 693.839,
    "end": 699.199,
    "text": "but yeah your right the bit we do is operate at the intersection of policy finance & tech."
  },
  {
    "start": 700.0,
    "end": 715.319,
    "text": "so we convene these three communities give them an opportunity by curating their dialogues for them to come together resolve problem statements or align on their respective road map."
  },
  {
    "start": 715.579,
    "end": 740.1,
    "text": "So whether it's a policy roadmap, or tech roadmap, financial services roadmap and start to align towards an element of in some cases growth In other cases To get them speak the same language because as you can imagine regulators have a different way of expressing themselves, then say some other tech folks and certainly the financial services folks."
  },
  {
    "start": 740.5,
    "end": 755.219,
    "text": "And at times across different jurisdictions they're speaking in different languages and what we do is provide that translation to enable opportunities or overcome some of the industry challenges."
  },
  {
    "start": 756.079,
    "end": 757.26,
    "text": "So it's kind that what we do."
  },
  {
    "start": 757.54,
    "end": 769.339,
    "text": "and then you know obviously, We have an advisory part to our organization so we can provide guidance for pathways To be able to advance a particular set Of outcomes."
  },
  {
    "start": 769.56,
    "end": 773.6,
    "text": "And in terms of private sector folks, we support their growth."
  },
  {
    "start": 773.939,
    "end": 791.18,
    "text": "We've worked with companies like Circle, PAXOS even Tether today Ripple expand beyond their current region, so predominantly the US and help them to expand into the APAC Region or parts of Africa."
  },
  {
    "start": 791.459,
    "end": 795.36,
    "text": "Or even into Europe as well And we give them a bit of a soft landing."
  },
  {
    "start": 795.8,
    "end": 802.52,
    "text": "We help them engage and we support Their pathways in two different ecosystems both on the public and private sector side."
  },
  {
    "start": 802.939,
    "end": 812.939,
    "text": "That's very cool actually there and I only can confirm that when first went to a point zero forum and later, to the Singapore Fintech Festival."
  },
  {
    "start": 812.98,
    "end": 818.199,
    "text": "That's quite an unique achievement... ...to bring all these different stakeholders together!"
  },
  {
    "start": 819.02,
    "end": 819.86,
    "text": "And you still have the DJ?"
  },
  {
    "start": 820.219,
    "end": 828.819,
    "text": "Yeah so I was very surprised when i attended the Singapore FinTech festival and it felt like something Google organized but not a regulator."
  },
  {
    "start": 829.439,
    "end": 837.24,
    "text": "So that is really unique for regulators who feel approachable for the rest of the audience, I think that's quite a cool achievement."
  },
  {
    "start": 837.86,
    "end": 839.26,
    "text": "you make that dialogue happen."
  },
  {
    "start": 840.4,
    "end": 849.66,
    "text": "We're lucky in that regard because we were born from EMAs and have a lot of regulators who work at GFTM."
  },
  {
    "start": 850.459,
    "end": 860.459,
    "text": "We are able to provide safe space where people can create a dialogue which makes them feel comfortable for an open conversation."
  },
  {
    "start": 861.66,
    "end": 865.5,
    "text": "And in some cases, quite a few of the regulators... So it's not just MAS."
  },
  {
    "start": 865.699,
    "end": 871.959,
    "text": "It is the FCA, the Bank de France, FINMA, SMB, The Bundesbank and a whole raft of others."
  },
  {
    "start": 872.459,
    "end": 880.38,
    "text": "but quite frequently they come to us and essentially when we run around table on our programs its kind like industry consultation."
  },
  {
    "start": 881.1,
    "end": 882.9,
    "text": "So, they will lead the dialogue."
  },
  {
    "start": 883.26,
    "end": 890.219,
    "text": "They'll bring a little bit of public sector but more private sector and then we have an open consultation."
  },
  {
    "start": 890.6,
    "end": 911.74,
    "text": "if you think for years that predominantly it would be e-mail sent around to industry or on government website go into the government link write down your thoughts policy or regulatory kind of considerations."
  },
  {
    "start": 912.24,
    "end": 918.3,
    "text": "And that was such a kind of archaic way to do it, why not have a mature conversation around the table?"
  },
  {
    "start": 919.0,
    "end": 924.98,
    "text": "Get ascribe and you can keep a fluid conversation to get inputs from the industry."
  },
  {
    "start": 925.3,
    "end": 933.48,
    "text": "exactly just last week Last Friday we discussed in blockchain Bundesverband Bundesblock about with next version of Mika And it's exactly that again."
  },
  {
    "start": 933.719,
    "end": 940.56,
    "text": "You have a lot of questions in different sectors and then many experts come together, think about how to respond to that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 940.74,
    "end": 942.26,
    "text": "How do you get into dialogue actually?"
  },
  {
    "start": 942.839,
    "end": 946.36,
    "text": "That is what happens at point zero forum which has quite an opportunity."
  },
  {
    "start": 947.079,
    "end": 957.68,
    "text": "but let me ask one more question because on these events we see so much technology And you have to decide about the program, so which technologies to cover."
  },
  {
    "start": 958.3,
    "end": 968.28,
    "text": "Which less-to-cover... From all your experience what makes an innovation actually adopted and scaling over others?"
  },
  {
    "start": 968.339,
    "end": 975.9,
    "text": "So we know many technologies that are just good at conferences and everybody talks about them, but they never hit the reality somehow."
  },
  {
    "start": 975.98,
    "end": 984.78,
    "text": "And we in The Blockchain Space, we're guilty of that too or to early In many cases... ...and everyone hopes that some point in time the adoption might come."
  },
  {
    "start": 985.68,
    "end": 986.5,
    "text": "What do you see bad?"
  },
  {
    "start": 987.14,
    "end": 993.36,
    "text": "Is there something common About successful technologies and less so about others?"
  },
  {
    "start": 994.74,
    "end": 997.5,
    "text": "Yeah, I think obviously the easy answer."
  },
  {
    "start": 997.579,
    "end": 998.56,
    "text": "I'm sure you get this a lot."
  },
  {
    "start": 998.88,
    "end": 999.459,
    "text": "it's timing."
  },
  {
    "start": 999.54,
    "end": 1001.939,
    "text": "Obviously It's you know right time right place?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1002.54,
    "end": 1007.68,
    "text": "I think today Geopolitics is playing a role in this little bit as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1007.78,
    "end": 1010.439,
    "text": "now You know if you think of the last kind of year or two."
  },
  {
    "start": 1010.74,
    "end": 1017.76,
    "text": "But I think its capital If there was enough capital behind it your start to see some movement."
  },
  {
    "start": 1018.02,
    "end": 1027.9,
    "text": "and invariably You know, we see some of these things come from the US in a big way and China where that capital media movement."
  },
  {
    "start": 1028.12,
    "end": 1036.92,
    "text": "That tends to kind of move markets and starts to influence and shape what goes on everywhere between China and U.S.. So that's part of it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1037.0,
    "end": 1044.56,
    "text": "but for my perspective... We were different in lot."
  },
  {
    "start": 1044.76,
    "end": 1045.76,
    "text": "event companies."
  },
  {
    "start": 1046.42,
    "end": 1053.58,
    "text": "They will speak to the smart minds that they know, and they will try in get their views of opinions on people."
  },
  {
    "start": 1054.24,
    "end": 1057.86,
    "text": "To put onto their agenda And sometimes you can get bias from them."
  },
  {
    "start": 1058.04,
    "end": 1064.1,
    "text": "Sometimes we have a thesis about what we're looking at."
  },
  {
    "start": 1065.72,
    "end": 1079.52,
    "text": "When we think about our broader thesis We kind look back at the first wave of fintech If you think it was characterized by three, four or five fundamental technologies."
  },
  {
    "start": 1080.14,
    "end": 1082.1,
    "text": "One was the mobile phone."
  },
  {
    "start": 1082.38,
    "end": 1092.28,
    "text": "in two thousand and seven that-that was a big driver APIs cloud some would say digital public infrastructure which came a little bit later on."
  },
  {
    "start": 1092.42,
    "end": 1096.96,
    "text": "so The India stacks of this world and Singapore has sing pass and fast."
  },
  {
    "start": 1097.74,
    "end": 1099.12,
    "text": "Brazil Lateron had pics."
  },
  {
    "start": 1099.78,
    "end": 1101.56,
    "text": "but then you also have blockchain technology."
  },
  {
    "start": 1102.36,
    "end": 1113.14,
    "text": "And so this was the fundamental wave of that fueled fintech between two thousand seven, two thousand and eight all the way through to kind of probably in the last few years or So."
  },
  {
    "start": 1113.34,
    "end": 1114.82,
    "text": "but these technologies are maturing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1120.06,
    "end": 1126.16,
    "text": "We're going through a really exciting time in the world today, despite all of the conflicts and or these challenges that we are facing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1126.68,
    "end": 1135.6,
    "text": "But were on tech cycle next wave is gonna be dominated by clearly AI tokenization and quantum."
  },
  {
    "start": 1136.1,
    "end": 1145.12,
    "text": "Quantum probably still some way to go catch up with rest But we're seeing great movement and experimentation largely out of universities."
  },
  {
    "start": 1145.2,
    "end": 1151.72,
    "text": "And ECH is doing some great things in this space, but others are as well when were beginning to see the private sector."
  },
  {
    "start": 1151.78,
    "end": 1153.68,
    "text": "come on that...but it's those three."
  },
  {
    "start": 1153.88,
    "end": 1159.22,
    "text": "so will zone-in on these three ...and thats the tech stack that we see!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1160.16,
    "end": 1171.26,
    "text": "This kind cycle would last more than ten or fifteen maybe twenty years also whether its individual technology advancements or the interplay of technologies."
  },
  {
    "start": 1171.32,
    "end": 1176.56,
    "text": "And that's a bit where we see is, The interplay and combinations of these technologies."
  },
  {
    "start": 1176.64,
    "end": 1179.38,
    "text": "That um... We will cover at most of our programs."
  },
  {
    "start": 1179.94,
    "end": 1188.88,
    "text": "Having said that You know..the programs we do in say Africa Or Central Asia We will kind of slump that a little bit differently."
  },
  {
    "start": 1189.08,
    "end": 1208.96,
    "text": "So in Africa, it's more inclusion-based and we'll overlay a little around stables in there because that is really hot topic at the moment whereas when you look at Central Asia... ...we focus on Islamic finance and intersection where technology is beginning to solve some real world challenges."
  },
  {
    "start": 1210.1,
    "end": 1218.62,
    "text": "now The interplay of emerging technologies that hopefully, after all our conversations make it to relevant use cases."
  },
  {
    "start": 1218.94,
    "end": 1224.96,
    "text": "So this emergence of these technologies you alluded I think was AI and quantum tokenization."
  },
  {
    "start": 1225.36,
    "end": 1235.72,
    "text": "they might be an explanation for why architecture and compliance yes For the next generation or financial infrastructure is one of two themes of point zero forum."
  },
  {
    "start": 1235.8,
    "end": 1252.52,
    "text": "twenty-twenty six because It's challenging enough to bring one emerging technology to fruition, but then that convergence and bridging them into the core banking systems or into the traditional or into a tech stack of traditional finance."
  },
  {
    "start": 1252.58,
    "end": 1254.28,
    "text": "That is really an architectural challenge."
  },
  {
    "start": 1254.34,
    "end": 1267.18,
    "text": "so one bringing it in to an old or let us say historically grown tech stack For multiple converging technologies, that's really an architectural challenge."
  },
  {
    "start": 1267.24,
    "end": 1271.88,
    "text": "And that's why I really enjoy seeing architecture as one of the two big themes here."
  },
  {
    "start": 1273.0,
    "end": 1275.08,
    "text": "Yeah no completely agree."
  },
  {
    "start": 1275.14,
    "end": 1287.54,
    "text": "and it is you know what these technologies have to do with redefine rewire base foundation within financial services systems?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1289.0,
    "end": 1295.24,
    "text": "The previous wave of technology kind of sat on top of existing infrastructure."
  },
  {
    "start": 1295.78,
    "end": 1324.46,
    "text": "You know, within the main if you think mobile as a distribution channel cloud was just enabling storage and then APIs which is connecting random systems whereas If he can rewire that fundamental kind of architecture That's where a lot of the conversations will be going And I spent a bit of time in the US when we start to look at The advancements being made It's kind of fundamentally going to change how companies operate."
  },
  {
    "start": 1324.94,
    "end": 1341.34,
    "text": "They're operating models all the way through to how you serve your customers and distribution channels, so as I said despite all of their challenges in the world it is probably one of most interesting times from a tech-and broader financial services perspective."
  },
  {
    "start": 1342.26,
    "end": 1342.56,
    "text": "I really"
  },
  {
    "start": 1342.64,
    "end": 1344.28,
    "text": "like your global perspective here, Pat."
  },
  {
    "start": 1344.5,
    "end": 1346.5,
    "text": "Let's go a bit deeper down on that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1346.56,
    "end": 1352.68,
    "text": "regarding digital assets you touched upon the differences between Africa and APEC for example."
  },
  {
    "start": 1353.14,
    "end": 1362.38,
    "text": "but if we look at Europe Singapore US Gulf region or emerging markets when it comes to digital assets and digital money what is the difference in these different regions?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1362.6,
    "end": 1370.64,
    "text": "What should our listeners should look at, because sometimes I got the feeling here in Germany that everything's working somehow with banks and some fintechs."
  },
  {
    "start": 1370.78,
    "end": 1372.66,
    "text": "And everything is OK good enough."
  },
  {
    "start": 1372.84,
    "end": 1376.12,
    "text": "now for instance APA we have faster payment channels."
  },
  {
    "start": 1376.3,
    "end": 1383.38,
    "text": "Now fifteen or eighteen years after UK We also had a pleasure of using faster payments on broader scale."
  },
  {
    "start": 1383.9,
    "end": 1386.42,
    "text": "But what's different discussion actually?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1386.54,
    "end": 1388.04,
    "text": "In different regions?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1388.12,
    "end": 1390.36,
    "text": "how do you see when it comes to digital assets?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1391.26,
    "end": 1404.18,
    "text": "I think this is an interesting question, and... ...I have to keep re-reinforming or reevaluating my views every kind of three to six months because things are changing quite quickly."
  },
  {
    "start": 1404.96,
    "end": 1408.66,
    "text": "In the US clearly there's two pieces of regulation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1408.92,
    "end": 1414.94,
    "text": "Clarity & Genius have changed the game for the US, and not only the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1415.1,
    "end": 1415.42,
    "text": "U.S.,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1415.9,
    "end": 1428.22,
    "text": "it's changed the games everywhere else because... The conversation around stablecoins about a year-and-a-half or years ago wasn't really on the mind of regulators in a positive way."
  },
  {
    "start": 1429.14,
    "end": 1436.5,
    "text": "And when these changes come across from the u.s.. It has been an inevitability A direction of travel."
  },
  {
    "start": 1437.46,
    "end": 1441.98,
    "text": "So you're seeing movement being influenced because of what the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1442.1,
    "end": 1442.7,
    "text": "U.S.'s"
  },
  {
    "start": 1443.4,
    "end": 1450.78,
    "text": "regulation has done, we were in Africa recently and you know...we go to Rwanda and Ghana each year."
  },
  {
    "start": 1450.88,
    "end": 1456.6,
    "text": "We run a program with the government And last year it wasn't on the agenda as such."
  },
  {
    "start": 1457.68,
    "end": 1459.98,
    "text": "There was a few sessions but that was about it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1460.68,
    "end": 1469.22,
    "text": "This year we managed to bring governors & deputy governors in a room with the industry to talk about stablecoins."
  },
  {
    "start": 1469.68,
    "end": 1483.5,
    "text": "And we went into detail on this and, You know the outcomes from these sessions, you know have led to a few things."
  },
  {
    "start": 1483.64,
    "end": 1492.6,
    "text": "one is A series of working groups that the public and private sectors will have in Africa In those kind of regions east and west."
  },
  {
    "start": 1493.16,
    "end": 1496.78,
    "text": "The second day's looking into local stablecoins projects between?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1497.66,
    "end": 1499.32,
    "text": "The regulator and the industry."
  },
  {
    "start": 1500.04,
    "end": 1515.16,
    "text": "And the third one which is quite interesting Is you know the wave of fast regulation that is kind of making its way across multiple markets, the concept of adding a passporting framework into a piece of policy or regulation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1515.78,
    "end": 1519.18,
    "text": "And so these are the things that we're beginning to see as a result."
  },
  {
    "start": 1523.32,
    "end": 1540.82,
    "text": "I feel sad sometimes about the plight of Europe."
  },
  {
    "start": 1541.42,
    "end": 1550.7,
    "text": "You know, you guys are kind living and breathing this but it just feels that Europe was first to come out with its regulation on this or one."
  },
  {
    "start": 1552.0,
    "end": 1557.48,
    "text": "But it's kind of hindered innovation a little bit, and its erred more as we all know on consumer protection."
  },
  {
    "start": 1557.66,
    "end": 1564.84,
    "text": "So not seeing much excitement but we're beginning to see I suppose a renewed vigor coming back."
  },
  {
    "start": 1566.1,
    "end": 1568.14,
    "text": "you guys would have heard of is it Qvalis?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1568.54,
    "end": 1576.12,
    "text": "That looking the consortium banks come in and start create a euro stable coin."
  },
  {
    "start": 1580.46,
    "end": 1586.92,
    "text": "But yeah, you still can't look any further than the US I think and certainly the big organizations."
  },
  {
    "start": 1587.32,
    "end": 1588.82,
    "text": "And with the"
  },
  {
    "start": 1588.92,
    "end": 1589.16,
    "text": "U.S.,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1589.24,
    "end": 1612.44,
    "text": "it's not just that they're big stablecoin companies but if we look at some of things that Stripe is doing how their bringing AI together or gentic AI to get there where its acquisition a bridge in stablecoins moving money on velocity much quicker across complex supply chains, and that's probably one area where I think there is a lot of work to be done."
  },
  {
    "start": 1612.5,
    "end": 1621.16,
    "text": "And a lot problems can be solved through effective use or stablecoins as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1621.28,
    "end": 1622.84,
    "text": "so thats kind of what we are."
  },
  {
    "start": 1622.98,
    "end": 1623.46,
    "text": "its the shame."
  },
  {
    "start": 1623.7,
    "end": 1627.0,
    "text": "China isn't really in this game by choice."
  },
  {
    "start": 1629.22,
    "end": 1637.14,
    "text": "We assume there are other elements that they're doing, but not necessarily on cryptstables as far as I'm aware."
  },
  {
    "start": 1637.54,
    "end": 1639.7,
    "text": "Maybe to double down on the role of US."
  },
  {
    "start": 1639.8,
    "end": 1648.42,
    "text": "so i think They actually pressure everybody against their own standards and against their speed which is really amazing when it comes to stable coins."
  },
  {
    "start": 1649.14,
    "end": 1652.5,
    "text": "But how do you see their moves regarding tokenized securities?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1652.9,
    "end": 1659.22,
    "text": "Like all the action around public equity these days with DTCC, NASDAQ and IC joining in."
  },
  {
    "start": 1659.9,
    "end": 1661.94,
    "text": "Do you expect that same pressure?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1662.46,
    "end": 1667.38,
    "text": "because it's obviously most important capital market as well beyond the whole payments thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1667.94,
    "end": 1675.92,
    "text": "so will we see for tokenized securities just with a twelve-month delay in regards to the stablecoin movement?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1676.02,
    "end": 1678.26,
    "text": "or how do you expect that to play out?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1678.64,
    "end": 1679.96,
    "text": "Yeah, I think your spot on it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1680.36,
    "end": 1683.44,
    "text": "It's what you mentioned there—the strength of capital markets."
  },
  {
    "start": 1683.52,
    "end": 1685.98,
    "text": "and I think the tentacles of U.S."
  },
  {
    "start": 1686.08,
    "end": 1690.3,
    "text": "capital market is all seeing an oil encompassing in multiple marketplace."
  },
  {
    "start": 1693.02,
    "end": 1696.12,
    "text": "The capital markets in the US is just strengthened even further."
  },
  {
    "start": 1696.5,
    "end": 1705.48,
    "text": "And if you watch the markets today over the last kind of five months since the conflict, it just feels like its strengthened and has gone from strength to strength."
  },
  {
    "start": 1705.78,
    "end": 1711.6,
    "text": "so yeah I think there will be a slight delay but it will follow the same patterns for sure."
  },
  {
    "start": 1711.88,
    "end": 1718.42,
    "text": "It's very calculated what has been going on, regardless of whether views are in US and all these things."
  },
  {
    "start": 1718.94,
    "end": 1729.6,
    "text": "Stimulating activity in the ripples is probably having intended but also unintended consequences as well And its the unintended consequence that I find quite interesting."
  },
  {
    "start": 1730.08,
    "end": 1745.32,
    "text": "For example at the stablecoin side Its a local stable coin project which i found really interesting because this whole movement has forced a sovereignty challenge and a sovereignty issue that is being raised in Europe for sure, and will be covered at point zero."
  },
  {
    "start": 1745.9,
    "end": 1747.52,
    "text": "But certainly in Africa as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1747.8,
    "end": 1757.72,
    "text": "you know there's defiance independence move away from de-dollarization which I find the inner rebel on me really likes it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1758.3,
    "end": 1769.86,
    "text": "Yeah, so I'm gonna come back to a statement that you made on these different languages spoken among the participants of the events."
  },
  {
    "start": 1769.98,
    "end": 1781.22,
    "text": "but in We have central bankers, commercial bankers regulators FinTechs which are often more in a startup or scale up stage."
  },
  {
    "start": 1781.32,
    "end": 1790.72,
    "text": "we have the crypto native firms ,we have technology incumbents so the hyperscalers and business software vendors like SAP."
  },
  {
    "start": 1791.56,
    "end": 1803.64,
    "text": "they do speak different language And I think not only on this global level as you just explained it Which is what contributions international perspective but also different languages."
  },
  {
    "start": 1804.62,
    "end": 1834.88,
    "text": "Communication science teaches us that every conversation, ever debate is a semantic debate in its first place so we need to align on what actually mean with our words and experience it for sure but particularly true for the digital assets and digital money industry or an institutional DLT because crypto native language is a different one than regulators, then our commercial bankers to some extent."
  },
  {
    "start": 1835.26,
    "end": 1837.92,
    "text": "And I think next to bringing the world together."
  },
  {
    "start": 1838.08,
    "end": 1852.36,
    "text": "so thanks to your global perspective that at least trying to settle the semantic debates and have these actors understand."
  },
  {
    "start": 1852.86,
    "end": 1863.44,
    "text": "Do you probably have examples where this happened, so a banker understood what a regulator meant or what Vitalik Buterin wants?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1865.2,
    "end": 1866.72,
    "text": "Yeah no it's good one!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1869.06,
    "end": 1875.9,
    "text": "The trick we find is having Good moderators when you have these closed-door sessions."
  },
  {
    "start": 1875.94,
    "end": 1877.54,
    "text": "I think it's really, really important."
  },
  {
    "start": 1878.22,
    "end": 1883.48,
    "text": "somebody that can understand both sides and Can ask questions in a way?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1884.46,
    "end": 1898.3,
    "text": "That brings it to life And resonates with the particular segment but then also provides the summary in away That can be understood by the key kind of people that are in the room."
  },
  {
    "start": 1898.52,
    "end": 1914.46,
    "text": "And one of things we did at the first point zero, which I thought was groundbreaking... We worked with MAS and brought together a large round table that consisted on…."
  },
  {
    "start": 1915.74,
    "end": 1920.72,
    "text": "One side of the room were deputy governors and some payment leaders."
  },
  {
    "start": 1921.36,
    "end": 1929.62,
    "text": "The other side of the room were crypto exchanges and a few kind-of in and around adjacent spaces."
  },
  {
    "start": 1930.42,
    "end": 1941.4,
    "text": "And MAS regulated this session, or regulated moderated this session... ...and they asked questions about industry And the regulators kept quiet."
  },
  {
    "start": 1941.46,
    "end": 1942.26,
    "text": "They were just listening."
  },
  {
    "start": 1942.88,
    "end": 1951.7,
    "text": "so they asked questions, they got their views across opinions Some kind of you know polarizing ones to draw out this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1952.28,
    "end": 1954.8,
    "text": "and that was The first part of the round table."
  },
  {
    "start": 1954.88,
    "end": 1956.12,
    "text": "So it was about an hour."
  },
  {
    "start": 1957.12,
    "end": 1974.94,
    "text": "then had a break Then industry left and then it was just MAS with the regulators and then MAS then literally went through and had a dialogue about what they've just heard, to draw out the insights."
  },
  {
    "start": 1975.1,
    "end": 1977.64,
    "text": "To draw out ways to collaborate with those"
  },
  {
    "start": 1977.72,
    "end": 1978.34,
    "text": "regulators.\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 1978.42,
    "end": 1987.22,
    "text": "And I'd never seen a session like that before where you have The Voice of the Industry... You think in twenty-twenty two…."
  },
  {
    "start": 1987.44,
    "end": 1994.94,
    "text": "A lot of the regulators were very nervous being in their room because it was at the start of crypto winter."
  },
  {
    "start": 1995.68,
    "end": 1998.92,
    "text": "So they were very nervous about even talking about this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1999.6,
    "end": 2010.42,
    "text": "They wouldn't have spoken in an open forum like that or session-like, but more comfortable part two of the sessions to share their views on what they just heard."
  },
  {
    "start": 2010.64,
    "end": 2028.84,
    "text": "so... That's kind of a genesis point zero when you have these types and there are multiple things throughout early years familiarity with the language, you start to get a familiarity with people."
  },
  {
    "start": 2029.46,
    "end": 2038.14,
    "text": "And so now five years on I guaranteeing that regulators will still remember the conversations they had with some of the crypto players."
  },
  {
    "start": 2038.8,
    "end": 2048.199,
    "text": "and there is different vibe especially when you bring regulators out their buildings into a new location like Zurich."
  },
  {
    "start": 2048.639,
    "end": 2055.38,
    "text": "You tend have a different dialogue than you would do within your own office, if you see what I mean."
  },
  {
    "start": 2055.92,
    "end": 2063.179,
    "text": "Before we jump back into today's episode a quick word about an event close to our hearts the Point Zero Forum."
  },
  {
    "start": 2063.62,
    "end": 2072.699,
    "text": "An annual gathering of over two thousand policymakers central bankers regulators and industry leaders at The Intersectional Finance Technology & Policy."
  },
  {
    "start": 2073.44,
    "end": 2082.239,
    "text": "BFRR is proud media partner of the Point Zero Forum and will be reporting live on site with the full co-host team."
  },
  {
    "start": 2083.08,
    "end": 2094.54,
    "text": "Organized by the Global Finance & Technology Network, and The Swiss State Secretariat of Finance, the Point zero forum takes place in Zurich from twenty third to twenty fifth June."
  },
  {
    "start": 2094.58,
    "end": 2101.22,
    "text": "twenty twenty six this year's lineup includes swiss federal councillor Karin Keller Souter."
  },
  {
    "start": 2115.359,
    "end": 2122.66,
    "text": "The agenda covers everything from AI in financial services and digital assets of stablecoins, tokenization."
  },
  {
    "start": 2123.259,
    "end": 2126.6,
    "text": "And the new regulatory frontier where."
  },
  {
    "start": 2129.96,
    "end": 2144.279,
    "text": "Come meet us in Zurich, register at pointzeroforum.com and as a BFRR listener you get thirty percent off the full-price industry pass with code bfrr."
  },
  {
    "start": 2144.72,
    "end": 2146.16,
    "text": "Twenty twenty six."
  },
  {
    "start": 2147.68,
    "end": 2148.08,
    "text": "I repeat"
  },
  {
    "start": 2155.56,
    "end": 2155.98,
    "text": "Absolutely."
  },
  {
    "start": 2156.16,
    "end": 2175.44,
    "text": "I can only confirm that being one of those moderators at both Point Zero and Singapore FinTech Festival, I vividly remember a discussion in twenty-twenty four in Singapore... ...I had ninety minutes with twelve participants from Bank Of England visa circle Manuel Klein here our co-host was representing Deutsche Bank at the time."
  },
  {
    "start": 2175.799,
    "end": 2184.92,
    "text": "it is so interesting for me to guide between these different perspectives of these experts, to understand what is digital money all about."
  },
  {
    "start": 2185.0,
    "end": 2192.48,
    "text": "So we went from retail CBDC to wholesale CBDC two tokenized deposits and stablecoins And I was forced to create a white paper afterwards."
  },
  {
    "start": 2192.54,
    "end": 2195.44,
    "text": "so just twelve papers Chatham house rules applied etc."
  },
  {
    "start": 2195.7,
    "end": 2199.98,
    "text": "etc...and everybody had to somehow agree on this."
  },
  {
    "start": 2200.04,
    "end": 2215.299,
    "text": "twelve pages The ninety minutes at the event, but it was the whole preparation getting everybody comfortable beforehand to get a nice ninety minute session Trying to be entertaining and then also to summarize up that Everybody agreed upon."
  },
  {
    "start": 2215.379,
    "end": 2215.98,
    "text": "so I think it's uh."
  },
  {
    "start": 2216.02,
    "end": 2221.18,
    "text": "It's a three-month process Where people interact on a quite safe level?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2221.319,
    "end": 2228.759,
    "text": "I guess due to Chatham households That you are not allowed to tell who said what but just general flavor of what's being talked about and that is very cool."
  },
  {
    "start": 2229.6,
    "end": 2242.1,
    "text": "We will bring it to a point zero in just two or three weeks, as BFRR we are an official media partner which leads me into the question pad – What should be our role?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2242.18,
    "end": 2244.22,
    "text": "As a podcast you know usually don't go"
  },
  {
    "start": 2245.22,
    "end": 2245.399,
    "text": "really"
  },
  {
    "start": 2246.42,
    "end": 2249.839,
    "text": "live but we have chance to optimize little bit!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2250.72,
    "end": 2253.259,
    "text": "What would you recommend us co-hosts?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2255.58,
    "end": 2256.319,
    "text": "to that dialogue."
  },
  {
    "start": 2257.379,
    "end": 2269.16,
    "text": "Sure, no I think it's... It's all about getting that temperature check of what is going on, and so there will be a lot people open to quick fireside chats or conversations."
  },
  {
    "start": 2270.22,
    "end": 2276.12,
    "text": "To get the insight with your audience I think would very useful."
  },
  {
    "start": 2277.759,
    "end": 2283.799,
    "text": "you'll also find some regulators may have been able to share their views in opinions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2283.899,
    "end": 2299.42,
    "text": "they might not do podcasts But you can at least get a synthesis of a handful of regulators to kind of get the temperature check, what they see happening now and further down the line."
  },
  {
    "start": 2300.08,
    "end": 2308.48,
    "text": "I think there's going be number really interesting roundtables that are worth kind of just jumping into."
  },
  {
    "start": 2309.18,
    "end": 2327.68,
    "text": "I think the session with Tether, so Paolo from Tether—I think that would be quite a key session because he's going to be interviewed by a former regulator…so they've ever been on a stage, or I don't think Paolo's never been on the stage with a regulator before."
  },
  {
    "start": 2328.259,
    "end": 2330.339,
    "text": "Or being interviewed by a regulator for sure."
  },
  {
    "start": 2331.22,
    "end": 2340.58,
    "text": "so that will be quite unique one as well and we'll talking actually with you know Tether announced Gelt last week."
  },
  {
    "start": 2341.14,
    "end": 2348.52,
    "text": "They announce The Stablecoins Projects With National Bank of Georgia And so there will be a little bit around that on stage as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 2348.6,
    "end": 2362.46,
    "text": "So the governor's coming from that, see Tether they're talking about it as well which I think could an interesting... pathway for other countries to follow in a similar footprint, public-private stablecoin."
  },
  {
    "start": 2362.94,
    "end": 2368.5,
    "text": "Essentially all I can say is get involved and it's not just during the day or evenings."
  },
  {
    "start": 2368.54,
    "end": 2377.42,
    "text": "there will be some interesting activities so you can mingle with overseas crowd"
  },
  {
    "start": 2378.24,
    "end": 2380.5,
    "text": "At this point in time, maybe a full disclaimer."
  },
  {
    "start": 2380.62,
    "end": 2401.879,
    "text": "We are an official and proud media partner at the Point Zero Forum And Pat believe me will make best use of that to capture exclusive insights unspoken words as much As possible and your team pat is doing a great job in helping us find different avenues for doing so."
  },
  {
    "start": 2402.759,
    "end": 2408.6,
    "text": "So our co-hosts will be in the very sessions as a panelist."
  },
  {
    "start": 2409.399,
    "end": 2412.94,
    "text": "We learned that conversations are rich, offstage."
  },
  {
    "start": 2413.0,
    "end": 2417.399,
    "text": "of course we'll do our best to capture voices from all these parties."
  },
  {
    "start": 2417.52,
    "end": 2429.72,
    "text": "we mentioned central bankers commercial bankers regulators fintech's crypto native firms and maybe one last question on point zero forum happening in Switzerland."
  },
  {
    "start": 2429.779,
    "end": 2440.14,
    "text": "so with different stakeholders or parties attending, where do you currently see the biggest gap in understanding between these groups?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2441.22,
    "end": 2442.2,
    "text": "The biggest gap."
  },
  {
    "start": 2445.879,
    "end": 2446.66,
    "text": "That's a thing!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2448.16,
    "end": 2449.899,
    "text": "It is really good question by the way I think..."
  },
  {
    "start": 2450.66,
    "end": 2452.44,
    "text": "I have ideas but i don't want to bias you."
  },
  {
    "start": 2453.5,
    "end": 2464.96,
    "text": "Yeah yeah Yeah, the gap is has certainly started to close because people have an openness now a much bigger openness I think it's."
  },
  {
    "start": 2465.299,
    "end": 2472.58,
    "text": "It's gonna be around Probably some of their considerations around The cross-border space."
  },
  {
    "start": 2473.279,
    "end": 2474.64,
    "text": "I Think between regions?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2474.68,
    "end": 2483.66,
    "text": "I think that Is probably one element and i think um the Gap Around views around sovereignty on what That looks like for different markets."
  },
  {
    "start": 2484.259,
    "end": 2486.06,
    "text": "I think thats going To Be A big piece."
  },
  {
    "start": 2487.08,
    "end": 2491.299,
    "text": "Certainly that needs some level of resolution on that, I think."
  },
  {
    "start": 2491.799,
    "end": 2493.42,
    "text": "But be interested to hear your thoughts Michael."
  },
  {
    "start": 2493.96,
    "end": 2494.779,
    "text": "So just a bit."
  },
  {
    "start": 2494.96,
    "end": 2497.58,
    "text": "understand y'all initial point correctly."
  },
  {
    "start": 2497.68,
    "end": 2499.74,
    "text": "so the concern is To what extent?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2500.02,
    "end": 2504.58,
    "text": "A financial infrastructure remains sovereign so bound to our nation state?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2505.04,
    "end": 2520.48,
    "text": "or really And actually, that's one of the massive opportunities of DLT to once and for all give us a global financial infrastructure in which sending money or managing money is as easy globally like sending emails globally."
  },
  {
    "start": 2520.58,
    "end": 2524.92,
    "text": "Or WhatsApp text message at least in the Western realm off the internet."
  },
  {
    "start": 2525.48,
    "end": 2526.759,
    "text": "so it is that your point?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2526.879,
    "end": 2533.339,
    "text": "Like this tradeoff between national sovereign financial infrastructure on this one unified global infrastructure."
  },
  {
    "start": 2534.2,
    "end": 2536.08,
    "text": "Yeah, it's the point around that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2536.12,
    "end": 2540.339,
    "text": "It's the ownership I think and just having You know?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2540.799,
    "end": 2548.899,
    "text": "I think there is a fear of not being able to use A particular type of service because There was no ownership on this."
  },
  {
    "start": 2549.0,
    "end": 2559.399,
    "text": "but if you thinking about it And that email analogy has been used quite a bit It all boils down to money, and it boils down like six or seven use cases of money."
  },
  {
    "start": 2559.54,
    "end": 2563.92,
    "text": "That's how you spend save manage borrow share lend money."
  },
  {
    "start": 2564.12,
    "end": 2565.16,
    "text": "I think there might be one other."
  },
  {
    "start": 2565.68,
    "end": 2571.42,
    "text": "we've just put legacy rules legacy people with legacy systems To govern the How We Do Those Things?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2571.96,
    "end": 2577.48,
    "text": "And so breaking Down some Of that thinking i Think where we're seeing now in spades."
  },
  {
    "start": 2578.08,
    "end": 2580.339,
    "text": "but You know do you need to own it?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2580.799,
    "end": 2582.56,
    "text": "Can you own parts of this?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2582.7,
    "end": 2584.779,
    "text": "can You own the core kind of IP Of it."
  },
  {
    "start": 2585.14,
    "end": 2592.14,
    "text": "I think there is a debate There that will certainly rage not just at point zero, but we'll rage for For a little bit."
  },
  {
    "start": 2592.6,
    "end": 2615.259,
    "text": "and Pat since you are so in my view The biggest gap In understanding between these groups Is actually Between either A coexistence of digital of different forms of Digital money or Winner takes all of one or two winning forms of digital money."
  },
  {
    "start": 2615.42,
    "end": 2631.279,
    "text": "So too often, I still observe conversation in which then central bankers assume a hope for a north star future of finance and with CBDCs are the central form of digital Money And then off course the crypto maxis or maximalists opt for."
  },
  {
    "start": 2631.339,
    "end": 2635.62,
    "text": "it's still up for a future In which Bitcoin is the predominant form of Digital Money."
  },
  {
    "start": 2636.68,
    "end": 2643.12,
    "text": "My only view here is that we will observe a co-evolution and coexistence of digital forms, money."
  },
  {
    "start": 2643.379,
    "end": 2649.08,
    "text": "And it's not just on this first level like... Is there going to be CBDC or stablecoin?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2649.14,
    "end": 2650.22,
    "text": "Or tokenized deposit?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2650.399,
    "end": 2660.16,
    "text": "even if you double click on stablecoins for example as you have parties fighting for Treadfy Threadfy, adjacent stablecoins."
  },
  {
    "start": 2660.339,
    "end": 2665.46,
    "text": "You have parties opting for or fighting for defy native stablecoins."
  },
  {
    "start": 2665.6,
    "end": 2673.08,
    "text": "So even within the stablecoin space you have different Parties if you will that fight forward."
  },
  {
    "start": 2673.12,
    "end": 2677.1,
    "text": "Different design choices and design characteristics of stablecoins."
  },
  {
    "start": 2677.56,
    "end": 2679.56,
    "text": "Yeah No no no That's spot on."
  },
  {
    "start": 2679.779,
    "end": 2690.66,
    "text": "I think it feels like its a race And everyone has a different mode of transportation, and they're all trying to get this holy grail."
  },
  {
    "start": 2690.759,
    "end": 2696.259,
    "text": "But essentially our view here is that there has to be co-existence."
  },
  {
    "start": 2696.319,
    "end": 2697.819,
    "text": "There have been interoperability."
  },
  {
    "start": 2697.899,
    "end": 2701.66,
    "text": "It had to set up principles so people can work too."
  },
  {
    "start": 2701.94,
    "end": 2705.46,
    "text": "So we would see it as digital money principles."
  },
  {
    "start": 2706.0,
    "end": 2716.08,
    "text": "which ever route you want take there is a level of harmonization that you can at least have the level interoperability between these in some way, shape or form."
  },
  {
    "start": 2716.72,
    "end": 2723.48,
    "text": "That's something where we'll be looking to convene through GFT and working groups."
  },
  {
    "start": 2723.52,
    "end": 2727.319,
    "text": "so were running series on this work group across jurisdictions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2731.7,
    "end": 2737.92,
    "text": "Whichever you decide, whether the provider or one that's going to be using these as a business."
  },
  {
    "start": 2738.46,
    "end": 2741.7,
    "text": "There is some level of alignment there and an implementation pathway."
  },
  {
    "start": 2741.74,
    "end": 2743.16,
    "text": "I think it's really important."
  },
  {
    "start": 2744.279,
    "end": 2747.92,
    "text": "The stablecoin thing has problem with such global movement."
  },
  {
    "start": 2749.379,
    "end": 2757.1,
    "text": "If you accept Euro stablecoin from a US issuer, then immediately have very interesting questions where the reserves are held."
  },
  {
    "start": 2757.279,
    "end": 2761.96,
    "text": "And if you send the stablecoin across borders what's happening with these reserves?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2762.04,
    "end": 2764.04,
    "text": "Do they also need to move behind the scenes?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2764.1,
    "end": 2769.899,
    "text": "and all of this discussions which are tightly related to geopolitical aspects not just investor protection"
  },
  {
    "start": 2770.62,
    "end": 2770.7,
    "text": "or"
  },
  {
    "start": 2771.0,
    "end": 2773.379,
    "text": "consumer protection but it is about influence."
  },
  {
    "start": 2774.22,
    "end": 2775.859,
    "text": "who has the strongest influence?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2776.259,
    "end": 2778.56,
    "text": "This comes in my perspective always form market."
  },
  {
    "start": 2779.02,
    "end": 2790.819,
    "text": "And coming back to one of the topics you originally mentioned was the whole AI thing and maybe agentic finance is another of these market drivers that I really want to touch upon, get your thoughts pat."
  },
  {
    "start": 2792.339,
    "end": 2797.399,
    "text": "You bring both topics – AI and stablecoins in point zero forum again together?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2797.859,
    "end": 2799.48,
    "text": "How do you see them playing together?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2801.0,
    "end": 2806.44,
    "text": "what's the impact of AI on the payments realm Exactly."
  },
  {
    "start": 2806.819,
    "end": 2810.98,
    "text": "And which kinds of debates do you expect at the next conferences in that regard?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2811.56,
    "end": 2815.54,
    "text": "Yeah, I know for sure and we see a convergence of these technologies."
  },
  {
    "start": 2815.58,
    "end": 2818.18,
    "text": "then they'll be into place certainly as mentioned before."
  },
  {
    "start": 2818.899,
    "end": 2831.0,
    "text": "but i think with Agentech when i think about some movements happening Like Amazon's making great ground here, but Stripe is making some really good ground and you know they've got their own link wallet now."
  },
  {
    "start": 2831.18,
    "end": 2836.46,
    "text": "And agents can speak to retail agents and start conduct transactions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2836.52,
    "end": 2837.92,
    "text": "and that's beginning to pick up."
  },
  {
    "start": 2838.52,
    "end": 2841.74,
    "text": "But the debate we'll see in point zero."
  },
  {
    "start": 2842.899,
    "end": 2849.18,
    "text": "what are the rules of governance around these interactions between agents?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2849.48,
    "end": 2850.92,
    "text": "What does it kind look like?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2852.42,
    "end": 2855.56,
    "text": "There is a regulatory lens there, there was a consumer protection lens."
  },
  {
    "start": 2855.62,
    "end": 2886.0,
    "text": "There's the charge-backed lens in here as well and these are things that... ...there were a number of roundtables and stage sessions where we started to bring those together and start to inform thinking on both sides of defence because I think for years now the number of transactions conducted by agents increase quite a fair amount, driven by the US but we'll see others in between doing the same."
  },
  {
    "start": 2887.24,
    "end": 2900.379,
    "text": "I think there is a topic to be had clearly around more broader governance and... ...I think more about at least some level of harmonisation across regions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2901.14,
    "end": 2909.7,
    "text": "That's the piece that Point Zero does quite well because we're able to bring not only the European regulators and community together, you'll get a US voice."
  },
  {
    "start": 2909.96,
    "end": 2914.879,
    "text": "You will get a Middle East an Africa voice to a degree And then you've got Asia Voice."
  },
  {
    "start": 2915.42,
    "end": 2920.66,
    "text": "But thats where you can start create cross-regional harmonization at least."
  },
  {
    "start": 2921.399,
    "end": 2923.779,
    "text": "sharing of ideas best practices."
  },
  {
    "start": 2924.2,
    "end": 2926.22,
    "text": "Thats'the piece I think we see alot more."
  },
  {
    "start": 2926.859,
    "end": 2934.06,
    "text": "obviously Europe came out very quickly again with their AI act and that's coming into play very soon, I believe."
  },
  {
    "start": 2934.359,
    "end": 2936.279,
    "text": "But is that the right model?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2937.339,
    "end": 2944.299,
    "text": "Some would argue it's a hindrance or its very pro consumer protection that hinders innovation."
  },
  {
    "start": 2944.44,
    "end": 2946.06,
    "text": "so you'll see."
  },
  {
    "start": 2946.2,
    "end": 2948.52,
    "text": "maybe some AI companies stay."
  },
  {
    "start": 2948.779,
    "end": 2953.299,
    "text": "others may have no choice but to move other jurisdictions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2953.7,
    "end": 2958.2,
    "text": "Yeah, Pat on the intersection of AI and finance or stablecoin in particular."
  },
  {
    "start": 2958.259,
    "end": 2973.96,
    "text": "I just came back from our global major event that is SAP Sapphire in Orlando And i can tell you That exactly this intersection predominates The whole conversation In the business software landscape."
  },
  {
    "start": 2974.02,
    "end": 2980.68,
    "text": "Naturally You heard Of the SARS-COPOLIPS threat to the whole industry."
  },
  {
    "start": 2981.12,
    "end": 3015.779,
    "text": "And I think we move from a word in which we run on deterministic business processes and software only to a world, to a target state in which deterministic software is to some extent combined by probabilistic software that it's software that rests on and builds on authentic AI or AI agents that then also make use of money Of course, of digital money because how were an agent... I mean, because digital money just lends itself to agents."
  },
  {
    "start": 3017.04,
    "end": 3036.22,
    "text": "But if this vision that at least many business vendors have turns out to be true so if AI agents become really economic actors and contribute a probabilistic part to business processes like settling a transaction or making payment."
  },
  {
    "start": 3037.14,
    "end": 3047.359,
    "text": "So economic actors that can initiate transactions, manage workflows in companies or negotiate services even... That might be an interesting use case."
  },
  {
    "start": 3047.399,
    "end": 3054.46,
    "text": "so what kind of money and compliance infrastructure do these agents then need?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3054.779,
    "end": 3066.44,
    "text": "There would have to be rules put in place here, so the business or consumer will have to put their set of rules and then there would have been a governance at regulatory level."
  },
  {
    "start": 3067.22,
    "end": 3071.2,
    "text": "So that's the piece where I don't think we're quite there yet."
  },
  {
    "start": 3071.48,
    "end": 3076.04,
    "text": "And how does it get embedded into the agent?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3076.18,
    "end": 3088.16,
    "text": "Or transaction activity which actually happens And that's where regulated thinking now on, instead of regulating by product or by vertical or industry segment."
  },
  {
    "start": 3088.62,
    "end": 3106.44,
    "text": "It is regulation by activity and if we start to think along regulation by activities you can create the right type of regulation for financial transaction because everything seems to be blurring across multiple lines."
  },
  {
    "start": 3108.259,
    "end": 3111.319,
    "text": "Does that fit in a certain box A or box B?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3111.399,
    "end": 3118.48,
    "text": "Or does there need to be kind of a grayer area where you get the surety, you got the safety."
  },
  {
    "start": 3118.68,
    "end": 3136.08,
    "text": "You know... The assurance I suppose is that they're payment being made if there's charge back attributable to it and there was cap limit because you would want to have some level of confidence about those transactions taking place."
  },
  {
    "start": 3136.5,
    "end": 3141.259,
    "text": "If it's your agent with a retailer or an agent, what does that kind look like?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3141.52,
    "end": 3146.859,
    "text": "But I think Stripe has their link wallet and is quite impressive."
  },
  {
    "start": 3147.44,
    "end": 3151.799,
    "text": "still only a handful of transactions but we'll start see grow quickly."
  },
  {
    "start": 3152.68,
    "end": 3166.759,
    "text": "Yeah, what you're describing is essentially exactly the pushback of the whole software industry and that there remains a potentially small part in driving than our North Star financial system if you will."
  },
  {
    "start": 3166.819,
    "end": 3173.98,
    "text": "A tokenized economy That prevents a Chantic AI or AI agents from simply doing what they want."
  },
  {
    "start": 3174.2,
    "end": 3179.319,
    "text": "There will always be regulatory and legal boundaries, hopefully."
  },
  {
    "start": 3179.56,
    "end": 3193.16,
    "text": "I mean there has to be... And it will be software that ensures at any point in time At least a serious companies that ensure these agents use the form of digital money they are supposed to use."
  },
  {
    "start": 3193.24,
    "end": 3194.46,
    "text": "Use it in compliant way."
  },
  {
    "start": 3194.62,
    "end": 3197.24,
    "text": "That's fascinating future We're building right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 3198.72,
    "end": 3201.46,
    "text": "So i think we were quite far from podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 3201.52,
    "end": 3210.14,
    "text": "We need slowly but surely come to an end that we talked about this year, but let's look into the future."
  },
  {
    "start": 3210.18,
    "end": 3215.66,
    "text": "If we meet again at point zero forum in twenty-twenty nine what will have changed in the financial landscape?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3217.839,
    "end": 3230.02,
    "text": "Yeah so I think quantum would be a big part of that dialogue and i think there'll be a lot of discussions around the interplay of all three technologies."
  },
  {
    "start": 3230.319,
    "end": 3233.62,
    "text": "clearly AI would've advanced quite a bit on tokenization."
  },
  {
    "start": 3234.319,
    "end": 3258.94,
    "text": "hopefully We have, you know to Mikau's point we have some level of clarity around these different modes or payments with different methods and a level interoperability that comes in there rather than everyone going off their own directions creating walled gardens."
  },
  {
    "start": 3259.879,
    "end": 3272.62,
    "text": "So I think there will be a level of interoperability, their level of harmonization on how different ways of transacting can not collaborate but at least coexist with each other."
  },
  {
    "start": 3273.22,
    "end": 3287.839,
    "text": "I think those three technologies as i mentioned again or say it again because they're in our labor the point that The Three Will Start To Create More Ways In Which It Can Disrupt The Underlying Financial Services System."
  },
  {
    "start": 3288.92,
    "end": 3290.64,
    "text": "I hope so, yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 3290.879,
    "end": 3297.879,
    "text": "Yeah for sure and always look back at the learnings from where the world was straight after the financial crisis."
  },
  {
    "start": 3298.94,
    "end": 3302.56,
    "text": "People are beginning to use the mobile phone in different ways."
  },
  {
    "start": 3302.64,
    "end": 3307.0,
    "text": "They started your experiment with APIs and cloud, all of these things."
  },
  {
    "start": 3307.14,
    "end": 3310.22,
    "text": "I think that is a good reference point."
  },
  {
    "start": 3310.94,
    "end": 3313.7,
    "text": "but i would hope this next wave."
  },
  {
    "start": 3313.779,
    "end": 3332.259,
    "text": "so A lot of regulators we have you know Are very more open than they've been say ten, fifteen or twenty years ago and it's this next wave that we're seeing coming through our kind of mid-level moving up to deputy governor level even in some cases."
  },
  {
    "start": 3333.24,
    "end": 3335.22,
    "text": "This waves have grown."
  },
  {
    "start": 3335.399,
    "end": 3351.16,
    "text": "with the technology being close as its been moving they will start see an even more regulatory environment that's willing to kind of have these, you know awkward and tough conversations or willing upscale."
  },
  {
    "start": 3351.42,
    "end": 3353.799,
    "text": "To be able keep pace with what is going on."
  },
  {
    "start": 3355.04,
    "end": 3361.52,
    "text": "And thats the piece I think would like see in three-four years time."
  },
  {
    "start": 3361.98,
    "end": 3362.799,
    "text": "Yeah, Petter."
  },
  {
    "start": 3363.04,
    "end": 3370.16,
    "text": "Twenty-twenty nine is one thing but point zero forum twenty twenty six is approaching fast this year already."
  },
  {
    "start": 3370.339,
    "end": 3376.7,
    "text": "so who should come to this year's Point Zero Forum and what mindset these attendees bring?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3377.52,
    "end": 3383.02,
    "text": "For sure, I think you know when i think about point zero forum It's the place."
  },
  {
    "start": 3383.06,
    "end": 3385.339,
    "text": "You go for that substance is the place?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3385.58,
    "end": 3387.2,
    "text": "Go to feed your soul."
  },
  {
    "start": 3387.319,
    "end": 3397.98,
    "text": "so if you're an intellectual If you are a thinker if you were dreamer in the industry then this Is The Place for you if you like sitting In and listening To substantive conversations About That."
  },
  {
    "start": 3398.1,
    "end": 3410.42,
    "text": "you Know the direction of travel for x or y Your keen about the AI space Or tokenization And stable Space all the interplayers or tech more broadly, you know the applications of tech."
  },
  {
    "start": 3410.62,
    "end": 3412.08,
    "text": "then this is a place for you."
  },
  {
    "start": 3413.02,
    "end": 3434.759,
    "text": "It's not for the faint-hearted it's for those that want to increase their capacity and the framing where things can go because we've also had companies come Learn or developed a new product based of what they've learned from around table, Or in particular direction of travel from a regular policymaker or regulator."
  },
  {
    "start": 3434.899,
    "end": 3439.66,
    "text": "So that's kind the people who would get their most value for point zero."
  },
  {
    "start": 3440.279,
    "end": 3440.66,
    "text": "Very cool."
  },
  {
    "start": 3441.18,
    "end": 3442.66,
    "text": "One final question on my side."
  },
  {
    "start": 3443.02,
    "end": 3449.24,
    "text": "Is there one conversation The financial industry is usually avoiding That will be talked about at Point Zero?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3450.14,
    "end": 3460.879,
    "text": "I was going to say the geopolitics piece but I think it will be talked about, but in those closed-door settings or late night networking sessions."
  },
  {
    "start": 3461.799,
    "end": 3464.54,
    "text": "That's probably the big piece right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 3465.299,
    "end": 3483.16,
    "text": "The other one is these corridors and there are a lot of things being talked about between jurisdictions I would say kosher corridors, others probably less so for geopolitics reasons."
  },
  {
    "start": 3483.22,
    "end": 3492.64,
    "text": "So that's the piece we'll see a lot of this cross-border economic corridor that lends itself to applications"
  },
  {
    "start": 3494.48,
    "end": 3506.1,
    "text": "Understandably, the hot topics in a sense of sensitivity once you want to avoid on our public stage are then discussed and silent closed rooms."
  },
  {
    "start": 3506.96,
    "end": 3521.08,
    "text": "I really hope that exactly will happen at Point Zero Forum so that the financial industry would talk about the topic it has been avoiding but need urgent reconciliation."
  },
  {
    "start": 3521.399,
    "end": 3529.66,
    "text": "So that's one of my big hopes when attending Point Zero Forum, yeah with that first and foremost to our listeners."
  },
  {
    "start": 3530.08,
    "end": 3535.68,
    "text": "thanks for listening to Bitcoin-Vietnam Rock'n Roll And For Making It Until The End Of This Lovely Conversation."
  },
  {
    "start": 3536.04,
    "end": 3543.859,
    "text": "Thank You so Much To You Pat & Your Team For Making This Interview Happen And For The Takes And Insights You Gave Us Today."
  },
  {
    "start": 3544.319,
    "end": 3547.42,
    "text": "If you All Enjoyed the Podcast Please Recommend And Rate Us."
  },
  {
    "start": 3547.64,
    "end": 3556.1,
    "text": "That really helps us the most in contributing and scaling this content, this European perspective to the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 3556.5,
    "end": 3560.6,
    "text": "Yeah make sure to visit our website for more detailed analysis and detail."
  },
  {
    "start": 3560.7,
    "end": 3579.319,
    "text": "show notes Make sure to subscribe to BFRR wherever you get your podcast And by the way engage In our conversation on In our expert communities on Telegram, they are available both in German and English."
  },
  {
    "start": 3579.359,
    "end": 3587.44,
    "text": "And by the way Pat feel free to join the English speaking telegram channel too for great discussions."
  },
  {
    "start": 3587.52,
    "end": 3588.58,
    "text": "we have them."
  },
  {
    "start": 3588.77,
    "end": 3594.69,
    "text": "Yeah, join us next week when we'll be exploring another critical development in the evolution of digital finance."
  },
  {
    "start": 3594.93,
    "end": 3622.41,
    "text": "Until then this is Bitcoin-FirtenbackendRoll bringing Europe's perspective on institutional DLT to Always conduct your own research and make well-informed decisions before investing."
  },
  {
    "start": 3623.01,
    "end": 3629.29,
    "text": "Please be aware that the hosts and guests may hold cryptocurrencies or digital assets discussed in this episode."
  }
]