[
  {
    "start": 16.94,
    "end": 24.91,
    "text": "Welcome to a new episode of BFRR, our Bitcoin fiat and rock-and-roll podcast that explores the intersection of traditional finance digital assets."
  },
  {
    "start": 25.03,
    "end": 25.67,
    "text": "And digital money."
  },
  {
    "start": 26.05,
    "end": 30.15,
    "text": "helps you understand how both digital assets and money will evolve in the future."
  },
  {
    "start": 30.75,
    "end": 31.69,
    "text": "I'm cohost Jonas Groes."
  },
  {
    "start": 31.87,
    "end": 35.01,
    "text": "today i am joined again by guest host Jonathan Noll from Atonic."
  },
  {
    "start": 35.23,
    "end": 35.73,
    "text": "Hi Jonathan"
  },
  {
    "start": 36.31,
    "end": 40.39,
    "text": "Hey Jonas great to be back for another episode of our Digital Money interview series."
  },
  {
    "start": 40.83,
    "end": 41.37,
    "text": "Yes, indeed."
  },
  {
    "start": 41.45,
    "end": 49.57,
    "text": "Today we are speaking with Ran Goldi, Goldstein so a very famous guy from the space who goes by the name Goldy."
  },
  {
    "start": 50.13,
    "end": 51.69,
    "text": "I'm sure most of you have heard of Goldie."
  },
  {
    "start": 51.73,
    "end": 54.69,
    "text": "he's SVP of payments and network at Fireblocks."
  },
  {
    "start": 54.85,
    "end": 65.69,
    "text": "So We Are Very Happy To Have You Know Somebody From Fireblox Finally In This Podcast And One Of The As I Said Think Well Most Well Known Industry Personality in Space."
  },
  {
    "start": 66.31,
    "end": 68.27,
    "text": "Yeah, I mean nice of you to have me guys."
  },
  {
    "start": 68.37,
    "end": 70.49,
    "text": "And uh i was waiting for this for like."
  },
  {
    "start": 71.27,
    "end": 74.83,
    "text": "Uh You know five six six years i want already."
  },
  {
    "start": 75.17,
    "end": 75.69,
    "text": "so uh."
  },
  {
    "start": 75.73,
    "end": 76.17,
    "text": "So thank you."
  },
  {
    "start": 76.57,
    "end": 76.99,
    "text": "and by the way?"
  },
  {
    "start": 77.09,
    "end": 84.15,
    "text": "I want to compliment you for the best podcast name Of all that bitcoin fiat on rock n roll,"
  },
  {
    "start": 84.61,
    "end": 88.03,
    "text": "you know It's funny you say that golden because um i think it's a great name."
  },
  {
    "start": 88.21,
    "end": 92.05,
    "text": "and The intro music i always tell the guy is the intro music just by far the best."
  },
  {
    "start": 92.45,
    "end": 93.83,
    "text": "i mean it sure its rock-n-roll."
  },
  {
    "start": 94.75,
    "end": 96.17,
    "text": "So we appreciate that Goldie."
  },
  {
    "start": 96.21,
    "end": 99.09,
    "text": "kudos goes to Alex, my colleague who started this podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 99.23,
    "end": 105.05,
    "text": "And yeah I mean the people often don't remember the podcast name but just did something with rock and roll um... But it sticks in their heads."
  },
  {
    "start": 105.17,
    "end": 105.65,
    "text": "so thats fine"
  },
  {
    "start": 106.01,
    "end": 108.05,
    "text": "And I'm super excited, Goldie thanks for joining us."
  },
  {
    "start": 108.73,
    "end": 110.57,
    "text": "Obviously we go back a ways right."
  },
  {
    "start": 110.89,
    "end": 116.73,
    "text": "early days of Libra your first company First Digital was an early supporter doing a lot of work in that space."
  },
  {
    "start": 116.81,
    "end": 119.11,
    "text": "so We've known each other a few years."
  },
  {
    "start": 119.33,
    "end": 124.99,
    "text": "You know watch you're progression through the fire blocks acquisition leading payments and network."
  },
  {
    "start": 125.05,
    "end": 128.61,
    "text": "but Personally too, I'm so very excited because Goldy is my go-to guy."
  },
  {
    "start": 128.81,
    "end": 130.63,
    "text": "When when i want to figure out okay?"
  },
  {
    "start": 131.21,
    "end": 135.85,
    "text": "I read some PR announcements like Okay goldie what's really happening here or how does this really work?"
  },
  {
    "start": 136.329,
    "end": 141.53,
    "text": "So I've appreciated over the years you giving me your wisdom and your input."
  },
  {
    "start": 141.63,
    "end": 141.97,
    "text": "So it was."
  },
  {
    "start": 142.01,
    "end": 147.25,
    "text": "we're really excited to have you on here And as Yona said if any listener has been do any blockchain a payments event."
  },
  {
    "start": 147.31,
    "end": 148.65,
    "text": "You probably across Goldi"
  },
  {
    "start": 150.07,
    "end": 150.57,
    "text": "Absolutely."
  },
  {
    "start": 150.67,
    "end": 153.13,
    "text": "And I think Goldi maybe to start with, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 153.17,
    "end": 155.37,
    "text": "So may be there are a few folks around who don't know you."
  },
  {
    "start": 155.51,
    "end": 164.59,
    "text": "so for these folks like how did your end up spending your career at this intersection where currently our namely between payments blockchain and ultimately financial infrastructure?"
  },
  {
    "start": 165.21,
    "end": 166.93,
    "text": "Yeah wow that's the tough question."
  },
  {
    "start": 166.99,
    "end": 172.29,
    "text": "first of all again thankyouforhavingme Super happy to be here and talk you too."
  },
  {
    "start": 173.31,
    "end": 185.79,
    "text": "And again, Jonathan You say I'm your go-to guy Maybe for a lot of things but i think definitely For everything around the world Of identity The word of compliance These type of issues."
  },
  {
    "start": 186.15,
    "end": 187.11,
    "text": "Your my goto guys."
  },
  {
    "start": 187.21,
    "end": 191.09,
    "text": "So super happy To Be Here and share that."
  },
  {
    "start": 191.45,
    "end": 194.13,
    "text": "so how did i get to be at this intersection?"
  },
  {
    "start": 194.17,
    "end": 197.31,
    "text": "Of payments Blockchain financial infrastructure?"
  },
  {
    "start": 197.77,
    "end": 200.93,
    "text": "well i never planned to be here honestly."
  },
  {
    "start": 202.97,
    "end": 220.65,
    "text": "I'm a tech geek at heart, uh i've been programming since a very young age and had several startups like five colossal failures some my faults but then was lucky to join founders."
  },
  {
    "start": 220.75,
    "end": 222.37,
    "text": "we actually had an ad tag company."
  },
  {
    "start": 222.45,
    "end": 231.65,
    "text": "this was back in twenty twelve twenty thirteen And that was the first time I really discovered finance."
  },
  {
    "start": 232.51,
    "end": 238.39,
    "text": "Honestly, not into finance before probably because it had no money but cause its weird to be into finance with no money."
  },
  {
    "start": 238.79,
    "end": 245.11,
    "text": "so i found out what finance is and how the ecosystem is."
  },
  {
    "start": 245.85,
    "end": 257.33,
    "text": "then after that ad tech company...I was too young at a sea level in public companies of this age and wanted to have a company without people or clients as much."
  },
  {
    "start": 258.71,
    "end": 262.05,
    "text": "And I went into algorithmic trading, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 262.09,
    "end": 267.19,
    "text": "So all the trading we were trading futures and options in other types of derivatives."
  },
  {
    "start": 267.37,
    "end": 268.63,
    "text": "Again this is before crypto."
  },
  {
    "start": 269.669,
    "end": 286.25,
    "text": "As i was doing that... ...I saw how the settlement layer it's just broken globally.. ..and how money has just broken when you actually do need to move that quickly because you want a trade so you wouldn't move between Korea & Europe & Israel & The US & whatnot."
  },
  {
    "start": 287.57,
    "end": 288.83,
    "text": "That was very frustrating for me."
  },
  {
    "start": 288.99,
    "end": 296.71,
    "text": "So after that company got acquired and after taking a year off, I... Well actually maybe this is important?"
  },
  {
    "start": 296.789,
    "end": 297.19,
    "text": "It took a year."
  },
  {
    "start": 297.27,
    "end": 302.77,
    "text": "often it went to a lot of Burning Men events And in Burning Men Events-I don't know if you guys know this but Yeah!"
  },
  {
    "start": 302.87,
    "end": 308.87,
    "text": "A lot people really like being a libertarian and talk about money from that prisma."
  },
  {
    "start": 309.47,
    "end": 316.37,
    "text": "basically In Bitcoin this was probably around twenty fifteen and sixteen so Bitcoin was definitely on the rise back then."
  },
  {
    "start": 317.11,
    "end": 321.549,
    "text": "And when I came back, now bored because they didn't have a company."
  },
  {
    "start": 322.35,
    "end": 328.39,
    "text": "I really wanted to start new startup and knew it was gonna be in finance but i didn't exactly know how and what."
  },
  {
    "start": 328.73,
    "end": 341.289,
    "text": "But after coming from that trip It's sort of cleared for me That its digital assets has the chance Of moving needle breaking current financial infrastructure or upgrading it."
  },
  {
    "start": 343.11,
    "end": 345.45,
    "text": "and that's what I went into, blockchain payments."
  },
  {
    "start": 345.61,
    "end": 347.47,
    "text": "And well Jonathan you know this."
  },
  {
    "start": 347.63,
    "end": 358.809,
    "text": "but when i started my company back in twenty sixteen seventeen then about blockchain payments really no one cared because stablecoin were not a thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 359.73,
    "end": 361.25,
    "text": "Payments on blockchain are NOT A THING!"
  },
  {
    "start": 361.53,
    "end": 363.21,
    "text": "But thats how it got here."
  },
  {
    "start": 363.57,
    "end": 365.37,
    "text": "Well so its the perfect segue to do."
  },
  {
    "start": 365.73,
    "end": 376.37,
    "text": "um... Because you have that long arc of seeing all these developments And obviously, when we first met to it was still even though, obviously, Iber was a big deal that coming onto the marketplace."
  },
  {
    "start": 376.429,
    "end": 377.909,
    "text": "But It was still very much of."
  },
  {
    "start": 379.289,
    "end": 381.95,
    "text": "what is this strange crypto topic?"
  },
  {
    "start": 382.09,
    "end": 385.01,
    "text": "and how are going do payments with crypto etc?"
  },
  {
    "start": 385.789,
    "end": 388.51,
    "text": "Then you look at today... We'll get into the big announcement in just a moment."
  },
  {
    "start": 388.57,
    "end": 396.549,
    "text": "but every major payments conference talking about stablecoins its The Killer app Its new thing You guys doing tremendous volume in it."
  },
  {
    "start": 397.07,
    "end": 408.289,
    "text": "Did you expect thinking back now if You can time to, you know talk yourself in twenty fifteen-twenty sixteen and say the market's gonna develop like this as a gun fast."
  },
  {
    "start": 408.49,
    "end": 410.15,
    "text": "As it goes slow from your perspective?"
  },
  {
    "start": 412.07,
    "end": 412.49,
    "text": "It is good."
  },
  {
    "start": 412.59,
    "end": 414.669,
    "text": "question about speed did I expected?"
  },
  {
    "start": 414.809,
    "end": 419.25,
    "text": "yes i don't want sound like profit but because of not cause alot."
  },
  {
    "start": 419.39,
    "end": 426.45,
    "text": "people were expecting that thing But was very much into opinion That this will change financial infrastructure."
  },
  {
    "start": 426.77,
    "end": 436.21,
    "text": "And again if u remember aha moment right when I was talking to someone we had our company already and We actually needed."
  },
  {
    "start": 436.97,
    "end": 460.61,
    "text": "Uh, we were doing like on off ramps for payments back in the day even with Bitcoin And i remember we didn't have enough bitcoin because And basically, we had to wait until the acquirer would settle with us for whatever Bitcoin we sold."
  },
  {
    "start": 460.909,
    "end": 465.59,
    "text": "But that will take forever three days and I really need more Bitcoin inventory."
  },
  {
    "start": 466.01,
    "end": 471.53,
    "text": "so i called my friend who was probably one of the luckiest smartest people around."
  },
  {
    "start": 471.669,
    "end": 477.289,
    "text": "he bought a whole lot of bitcoin in twenty ten and twenty-ten twenty eleven."
  },
  {
    "start": 477.75,
    "end": 479.51,
    "text": "I told him, listen."
  },
  {
    "start": 479.57,
    "end": 486.95,
    "text": "I need you to send me like ten million dollars worth of Bitcoin and he said oh it's okay i already have your wallet done sent And i'm like."
  },
  {
    "start": 487.289,
    "end": 488.89,
    "text": "You know a few seconds later?"
  },
  {
    "start": 488.99,
    "end": 496.49,
    "text": "I'm like Oh It's here and then you're Like all right, you Know if I just move ten million Dollars like this Then yes We will change the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 496.89,
    "end": 504.57,
    "text": "bitcoin or not stablecoins are not and I was Already into fiat based stablecoin Fiat pegged assets how we called them back then I Was really into that."
  },
  {
    "start": 505.19,
    "end": 507.51,
    "text": "do I think its fast enough for naught?"
  },
  {
    "start": 508.39,
    "end": 509.21,
    "text": "Look, I'm a tech guy."
  },
  {
    "start": 509.87,
    "end": 511.37,
    "text": "For me everything is too slow."
  },
  {
    "start": 513.15,
    "end": 525.39,
    "text": "But when I talked to a bank and And you know one of the bankers in One of the largest banks G-SIBs told Me like You Know Goldie we've been at this for as A Bank?"
  },
  {
    "start": 525.97,
    "end": 531.89,
    "text": "For about six or seven years and We're now changing our core platforms because Of This."
  },
  {
    "start": 532.51,
    "end": 537.73,
    "text": "In The World of Banking Six Seven Years is, you know it's nothing."
  },
  {
    "start": 538.01,
    "end": 550.51,
    "text": "Like usually he takes us thirty years but and I actually looked that up if you look at core banking platforms in banks the average lifespan of a banking platform is about twenty eight years right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 551.93,
    "end": 552.03,
    "text": "Yeah!"
  },
  {
    "start": 552.13,
    "end": 562.709,
    "text": "The average people are still doing calculations with sticking stones But like for me its too slow."
  },
  {
    "start": 563.189,
    "end": 566.23,
    "text": "honestly It's actually running in a really good nice space."
  },
  {
    "start": 566.89,
    "end": 569.569,
    "text": "Yeah, and that's a great segue into the big news."
  },
  {
    "start": 569.63,
    "end": 570.79,
    "text": "let's start with that right."
  },
  {
    "start": 570.87,
    "end": 585.05,
    "text": "so recently more than one hundred forty companies including Fireblocks but also bunch of big names like Blackrock and Visa and Coinbase Google MasterCard Stripe seems to be leading a lot of this, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 585.43,
    "end": 586.589,
    "text": "And it's long list."
  },
  {
    "start": 586.63,
    "end": 597.39,
    "text": "It has a hundred and forty names announced OpenUSD new dollar-backed stablecoin with an independent company called OpenStandard that is going launch later this year."
  },
  {
    "start": 597.53,
    "end": 601.17,
    "text": "so the big announcement just came out."
  },
  {
    "start": 602.11,
    "end": 613.87,
    "text": "what I think really interesting as commercial aspects there are free issuance and redemption And the fact that they're going to take the reserve earnings and share it across all of the consortium members."
  },
  {
    "start": 614.31,
    "end": 620.87,
    "text": "So maybe just a quick one for you, why did Fireblocks say we need to be part of this?"
  },
  {
    "start": 621.15,
    "end": 622.329,
    "text": "Why do guys decide to join?"
  },
  {
    "start": 623.209,
    "end": 629.829,
    "text": "Well I think first and foremost... We really try but sometimes people don't believe us."
  },
  {
    "start": 629.93,
    "end": 634.069,
    "text": "But like..we want to be agnostic To everyone!"
  },
  {
    "start": 639.15,
    "end": 644.209,
    "text": "We've never told anyone on our platform use USDT or USDC, or USDG."
  },
  {
    "start": 644.55,
    "end": 645.069,
    "text": "Or whatever."
  },
  {
    "start": 645.61,
    "end": 648.43,
    "text": "we don't know what is the right source to bet?"
  },
  {
    "start": 648.47,
    "end": 649.51,
    "text": "I don't think anybody knows."
  },
  {
    "start": 650.11,
    "end": 652.03,
    "text": "and will it be USDG?"
  },
  {
    "start": 653.05,
    "end": 655.589,
    "text": "PYUSD or OpenUSD?"
  },
  {
    "start": 656.13,
    "end": 658.15,
    "text": "The last one that came out...we don't Know!"
  },
  {
    "start": 660.329,
    "end": 671.29,
    "text": "To make sure that if you're in this space and want to build a wallet or tokenize an asset, move money then we should probably be the go-to infrastructure for you."
  },
  {
    "start": 671.49,
    "end": 674.81,
    "text": "And to be that infrastructure We need support all of them."
  },
  {
    "start": 675.93,
    "end": 684.209,
    "text": "So it's not like oh there is new stable coin, let's put all of our chips on it."
  },
  {
    "start": 684.35,
    "end": 686.63,
    "text": "It is going to break the internet or something?"
  },
  {
    "start": 686.75,
    "end": 686.829,
    "text": "No!"
  },
  {
    "start": 687.069,
    "end": 695.79,
    "text": "Its like its a new stablecoin great and looks really good addition to our ecosystem will be successful?"
  },
  {
    "start": 696.17,
    "end": 699.689,
    "text": "I don't know but im not gonna prevent clients from trying."
  },
  {
    "start": 700.49,
    "end": 704.31,
    "text": "so we need to supportive in every one those initiatives."
  },
  {
    "start": 704.43,
    "end": 705.41,
    "text": "that how i look at"
  },
  {
    "start": 706.31,
    "end": 709.25,
    "text": "Yeah, and what's that perspective of where we met?"
  },
  {
    "start": 709.81,
    "end": 716.03,
    "text": "This does feel a little bit like Libra on steroids or maybe Libra at the right time is more appropriate way putting it."
  },
  {
    "start": 717.15,
    "end": 726.31,
    "text": "We used to internally joke democracy as hard were dealing with twenty eight very large brands many of them competitors And now they're looking at this today."
  },
  {
    "start": 727.25,
    "end": 728.63,
    "text": "how does governance actually work?"
  },
  {
    "start": 730.449,
    "end": 735.25,
    "text": "competitors in many cases, doing those decision-making sharing economics things like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 735.569,
    "end": 737.709,
    "text": "Any thoughts on the governance piece of this?"
  },
  {
    "start": 738.29,
    "end": 739.41,
    "text": "I don't know more than you do."
  },
  {
    "start": 739.85,
    "end": 745.689,
    "text": "even though we are participating and our part of this i think a lot is still in flight."
  },
  {
    "start": 748.05,
    "end": 749.63,
    "text": "it was good they came out with."
  },
  {
    "start": 749.709,
    "end": 753.79,
    "text": "it said were releasing stablecoin."
  },
  {
    "start": 753.97,
    "end": 756.689,
    "text": "here's great companies will participate."
  },
  {
    "start": 757.329,
    "end": 767.11,
    "text": "But I do honestly believe that there's still a lot of things probably in play anywhere between the incentive structure to the governance, then i'm gonna wait to unfold."
  },
  {
    "start": 767.77,
    "end": 777.069,
    "text": "I think at this point and time what we collectively can say or in this podcast about is it looks really good?"
  },
  {
    "start": 777.53,
    "end": 784.55,
    "text": "There are some names like Mastercard, Visa, Amex."
  },
  {
    "start": 785.05,
    "end": 794.089,
    "text": "Last time they joined forces was nineteen ninety six to create him Vico right the standard for cards so To fight fraud, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 794.47,
    "end": 795.91,
    "text": "Now that was like thirty years ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 796.55,
    "end": 801.53,
    "text": "They haven't done a lot joint You know Initiative sense."
  },
  {
    "start": 801.87,
    "end": 807.55,
    "text": "That's why this is like super interesting and I think it also signals our ecosystem."
  },
  {
    "start": 809.37,
    "end": 814.01,
    "text": "There's a lot of names there that you wouldn't usually see doing anything big in our space."
  },
  {
    "start": 814.949,
    "end": 817.63,
    "text": "The fact that those names are there, it gets me excited."
  },
  {
    "start": 817.689,
    "end": 821.569,
    "text": "I'm not going to lie but the proof as always is in the pudding!"
  },
  {
    "start": 822.03,
    "end": 826.75,
    "text": "i was also excited about a lot of other stablecoins That never saw light-of-day."
  },
  {
    "start": 827.01,
    "end": 842.47,
    "text": "and you saw me In the Libra and DM days...I was working sixteen hours per day To convince people to get on Libra..i was thrown through the door Got back from window And you know what?"
  },
  {
    "start": 842.569,
    "end": 845.85,
    "text": "At the end of day, didn't matter because it was... It didn't fly."
  },
  {
    "start": 846.11,
    "end": 846.17,
    "text": "So"
  },
  {
    "start": 846.73,
    "end": 847.67,
    "text": "I'm optimistic"
  },
  {
    "start": 847.75,
    "end": 852.77,
    "text": "as always but i'm keeping myself cool to see what happens and"
  },
  {
    "start": 852.81,
    "end": 853.51,
    "text": "its super early days."
  },
  {
    "start": 853.55,
    "end": 854.27,
    "text": "so unfair question."
  },
  {
    "start": 854.329,
    "end": 856.79,
    "text": "But I noticed that there's a couple names missing on this list."
  },
  {
    "start": 857.03,
    "end": 859.67,
    "text": "amazingly with one hundred forty One is Meadow."
  },
  {
    "start": 860.069,
    "end": 862.85,
    "text": "Do think they may join later ?"
  },
  {
    "start": 862.89,
    "end": 865.49,
    "text": "I don't know My honest answer."
  },
  {
    "start": 866.79,
    "end": 872.39,
    "text": "Unfortunately Marzakorburg has stopped sharing with me directly his plans."
  },
  {
    "start": 872.949,
    "end": 876.709,
    "text": "But honestly, we have all those big names over there."
  },
  {
    "start": 877.65,
    "end": 884.55,
    "text": "I think it should be easy to add a lot of large merchants and you know enterprises."
  },
  {
    "start": 885.189,
    "end": 889.49,
    "text": "but again i think just like anything We Just Need To Wait And See!"
  },
  {
    "start": 891.449,
    "end": 912.01,
    "text": "Let's Have This Conversation Like Probably Six To Nine Months From Now And then we could see if it went over the... By the way, I look at like a hundred million as the first line that you need to get in terms of market cap."
  },
  {
    "start": 912.53,
    "end": 914.81,
    "text": "so i can take your stablecoin seriously."
  },
  {
    "start": 915.189,
    "end": 916.27,
    "text": "That's like the first hurdle."
  },
  {
    "start": 916.589,
    "end": 923.53,
    "text": "And then obviously, let's see how you climb through the billions like the one billion two billion but getting to the first hundred million."
  },
  {
    "start": 923.589,
    "end": 925.189,
    "text": "You would not believe how hard it is."
  },
  {
    "start": 925.709,
    "end": 931.79,
    "text": "maybe with those a hundred and forty names out there Maybe we'll be easier But I don't know."
  },
  {
    "start": 931.829,
    "end": 934.089,
    "text": "i think we're six nine months out from that."
  },
  {
    "start": 934.93,
    "end": 936.29,
    "text": "Yeah, and the distribution of power."
  },
  {
    "start": 936.39,
    "end": 937.31,
    "text": "I mean that's really massive."
  },
  {
    "start": 937.39,
    "end": 943.589,
    "text": "right because obviously currently everybody wants to launch a stablecoin Because everybody thinks you know hey we do have the best distribution?"
  },
  {
    "start": 943.67,
    "end": 950.67,
    "text": "I think now We have a player on the network naming the whole consortium That with combined forces has really the most Distributional powers."
  },
  {
    "start": 950.73,
    "end": 953.35,
    "text": "so definitely come back to this goal in six or nine months."
  },
  {
    "start": 953.99,
    "end": 956.79,
    "text": "there we speak again And see where does where it is developed."
  },
  {
    "start": 957.11,
    "end": 965.77,
    "text": "um i mean i totally Totally See You Know also super enthusiastic when i read This Also like The potential upside over joint standard working together."
  },
  {
    "start": 966.17,
    "end": 968.689,
    "text": "I'm really curious to see if the governance, you know?"
  },
  {
    "start": 968.75,
    "end": 975.189,
    "text": "If this will really work as also Jonathan asked a little misdirection like from your perspective maybe also a little bit on that."
  },
  {
    "start": 975.23,
    "end": 984.61,
    "text": "challenges Like what do you think are further another key challenge key risk for this initiative or Do You Think Now it's It Will Go Well?"
  },
  {
    "start": 984.93,
    "end": 988.23,
    "text": "Besides Maybe Of Course Crossing The One Hundred Million Threshold You Just Mentioned?"
  },
  {
    "start": 989.73,
    "end": 990.97,
    "text": "Yeah, I think you know."
  },
  {
    "start": 992.209,
    "end": 1004.67,
    "text": "Just like Jonathan here... ...I still carry the Libra slash DM scars meaning when i see something like this.. The first thing is what would the regulators say?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1005.35,
    "end": 1007.13,
    "text": "But we're in a different place!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1009.569,
    "end": 1014.53,
    "text": "When DM was out there it wasn't great environment."
  },
  {
    "start": 1016.13,
    "end": 1021.61,
    "text": "Now its probably best ever to be in digital assets, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1022.53,
    "end": 1025.95,
    "text": "So I don't know but i still have that as my knee jerk reaction."
  },
  {
    "start": 1027.03,
    "end": 1029.95,
    "text": "And the second thing is really liquidity."
  },
  {
    "start": 1033.03,
    "end": 1041.03,
    "text": "people underestimate how hard it A stable coin and make sure it has enough liquidity."
  },
  {
    "start": 1042.21,
    "end": 1051.53,
    "text": "I can tell you that, if i knew how to jumpstart a stablecoin And bring in like circle did or like tetheredid To one hundred billion dollars plus."
  },
  {
    "start": 1052.149,
    "end": 1059.41,
    "text": "Then i would probably not be here Or i will still be on your podcast because i'll be In the rock n roll part But i might not be at fireblocks."
  },
  {
    "start": 1060.629,
    "end": 1060.69,
    "text": "So"
  },
  {
    "start": 1061.03,
    "end": 1062.77,
    "text": "i think liquidity is going to Be a challenge."
  },
  {
    "start": 1062.85,
    "end": 1069.11,
    "text": "It's always a challenge If that group of companies could tap into the right use cases."
  },
  {
    "start": 1069.27,
    "end": 1073.629,
    "text": "And I think, you know within them alone there could be the right used cases."
  },
  {
    "start": 1074.17,
    "end": 1075.149,
    "text": "it would be interesting."
  },
  {
    "start": 1075.93,
    "end": 1085.99,
    "text": "but again i'm trying to be very careful because they think that we need to give all of these things time before we see how the chips fall."
  },
  {
    "start": 1086.55,
    "end": 1093.97,
    "text": "and I really hope the regulatory discussions you had with in Libra not like haunting you and robbing some sleep so They"
  },
  {
    "start": 1095.41,
    "end": 1095.97,
    "text": "will forever"
  },
  {
    "start": 1096.05,
    "end": 1096.45,
    "text": "haunt"
  },
  {
    "start": 1100.49,
    "end": 1100.53,
    "text": "me."
  },
  {
    "start": 1102.77,
    "end": 1112.91,
    "text": "Well, you recently wrote an article on a lot of different facets but in this one basically said like we won."
  },
  {
    "start": 1113.61,
    "end": 1113.97,
    "text": "now what?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1114.11,
    "end": 1119.23,
    "text": "so the question was fast for What do you mean by that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1119.29,
    "end": 1119.95,
    "text": "And where do we have"
  },
  {
    "start": 1120.07,
    "end": 1120.19,
    "text": "one?\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 1120.25,
    "end": 1122.87,
    "text": "So it was just a regulation, the technology."
  },
  {
    "start": 1122.97,
    "end": 1125.81,
    "text": "The adoption like what is it that maybe has won?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1126.11,
    "end": 1137.69,
    "text": "yeah I Do get asked at a lot because people ask me Like do you meet fireblocks you want or are like Goldie personally wanted to make some money out of like ICO."
  },
  {
    "start": 1137.91,
    "end": 1145.25,
    "text": "no No, I meant as an industry and Actually this article was born in Jonathan You're gonna like this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1146.23,
    "end": 1151.17,
    "text": "It was actually created from a conversation I had with Christian Catalini, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1151.31,
    "end": 1158.51,
    "text": "So Christian Catalina By far one of the smartest person Versons in our inner space."
  },
  {
    "start": 1159.01,
    "end": 1177.47,
    "text": "He was the chief economist for I think four for Libra DM and then he went on with David Marcus and created light spark who Who's now by way also like really making like interesting moves and I called Christian because he left."
  },
  {
    "start": 1177.69,
    "end": 1185.05,
    "text": "He left Lightsbark and said, you know i'm gonna do some other things uh...I want to-he's such a smart person!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1185.61,
    "end": 1191.73,
    "text": "He wanted to double down on AI a bit more And own some other thing that is for him to share probably in the future."
  },
  {
    "start": 1191.77,
    "end": 1193.37,
    "text": "He has been working with really good stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 1194.629,
    "end": 1199.71,
    "text": "We talked about how not only him but other people are leaving this space."
  },
  {
    "start": 1201.05,
    "end": 1216.629,
    "text": "The reason some of the people are leaving is because like the hard part Of convincing and I think this my thesis right so, I think that the hard Part of Convincing the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1217.19,
    "end": 1229.01,
    "text": "And when I say the world they mean the regulators the governments the financial institutions the banks the DDCC's the largest exchanges in clearing houses of the World."
  },
  {
    "start": 1229.49,
    "end": 1233.55,
    "text": "the heart part was convincing them That we are not"
  },
  {
    "start": 1234.129,
    "end": 1234.29,
    "text": "Just"
  },
  {
    "start": 1234.37,
    "end": 1235.97,
    "text": "crypto bros, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1236.01,
    "end": 1244.55,
    "text": "That we're not just here to sell them on NFTs that were actually here because you really want upgrade the financial infrastructure."
  },
  {
    "start": 1246.19,
    "end": 1258.57,
    "text": "Now it feels like if I went into a bank five years ago and would say hey can someone hear talking about digital assets or crypto?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1259.41,
    "end": 1267.19,
    "text": "We're like within five seconds of that sentence, but now I come into a bank."
  },
  {
    "start": 1267.29,
    "end": 1268.77,
    "text": "There's you know there's a red carpet."
  },
  {
    "start": 1269.09,
    "end": 1270.45,
    "text": "Oh You want to talk about stable coins?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1270.57,
    "end": 1272.37,
    "text": "Wow we really wanna Talk About stable cause."
  },
  {
    "start": 1272.41,
    "end": 1277.29,
    "text": "who've been waiting for For To get Into stable Coins or token as deposits Or whatever?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1277.37,
    "end": 1278.07,
    "text": "That is right."
  },
  {
    "start": 1278.41,
    "end": 1284.49,
    "text": "so i think we won As an industry in explaining Why."
  },
  {
    "start": 1285.149,
    "end": 1287.47,
    "text": "Right the why Is sort Of one."
  },
  {
    "start": 1288.29,
    "end": 1289.45,
    "text": "No one needs to ask why."
  },
  {
    "start": 1289.57,
    "end": 1289.79,
    "text": "Why?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1289.889,
    "end": 1298.11,
    "text": "Because, you know faster transparency ownership there's Upgrade of every process that you can think of them."
  },
  {
    "start": 1298.17,
    "end": 1302.37,
    "text": "fashion system could actually be Maybe been made better by this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1302.81,
    "end": 1308.57,
    "text": "That was the y we won with the Y. now We're at how How do we do this?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1308.81,
    "end": 1312.35,
    "text": "or what exact while use case exactly are using this for?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1312.47,
    "end": 1317.23,
    "text": "because again And I know this is too long of an answer, but i'll just wrap it up by saying."
  },
  {
    "start": 1317.57,
    "end": 1325.83,
    "text": "I always tell people Guys no matter what you read on linkedin stablecoins are not the solution to every problem in the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1326.25,
    "end": 1329.57,
    "text": "It's not gonna solve world hunger and it's now."
  },
  {
    "start": 1329.71,
    "end": 1333.93,
    "text": "its not going to solve every payments problem You have But for some problems?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1334.23,
    "end": 1334.95,
    "text": "It's amazing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1335.41,
    "end": 1345.149,
    "text": "so I think we wanted the why Now We need to as An industry Like really bring up this entire ecosystem to better solve the how."
  },
  {
    "start": 1345.83,
    "end": 1348.91,
    "text": "yeah, actually Great great thoughts there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1348.97,
    "end": 1359.87,
    "text": "And let me just call out Christian as well one of the smartest people I've ever personally met for sure we he just We just had him on the show here think it was our last guest would talk a lot about agentics."
  },
  {
    "start": 1359.91,
    "end": 1361.01,
    "text": "So really really cool."
  },
  {
    "start": 1361.51,
    "end": 1370.149,
    "text": "so hundred percent on that time and maybe double-click in what you're saying because You've had this vantage point of the arc, you know in ten years or more right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1370.21,
    "end": 1375.73,
    "text": "And now especially with fire blocks and I think a lot financial institutions are coming to you."
  },
  {
    "start": 1376.33,
    "end": 1377.129,
    "text": "They're moving from this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1377.25,
    "end": 1378.83,
    "text": "oh i'm curious about this thing too."
  },
  {
    "start": 1378.91,
    "end": 1381.59,
    "text": "okay let's actually execute Let's go into production."
  },
  {
    "start": 1382.07,
    "end": 1385.33,
    "text": "so what would be your advice B for seeing all these projects?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1385.37,
    "end": 1395.389,
    "text": "What is like the biggest mistake that every institution makes when they when they start out their stable coin journey, what do you think they get wrong the first six months?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1397.23,
    "end": 1409.19,
    "text": "I think they underestimate maybe like how deep they need to get into the understanding of the actual technology."
  },
  {
    "start": 1410.01,
    "end": 1410.95,
    "text": "What do i mean by that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1412.03,
    "end": 1426.53,
    "text": "a lot of times and this is interesting because And it sort of crosses the chasm from early adopters, anarchists who are willing to try out anything."
  },
  {
    "start": 1426.649,
    "end": 1431.129,
    "text": "Any protocol any new technology that comes in crypto digital assets."
  },
  {
    "start": 1431.19,
    "end": 1432.91,
    "text": "they were happy trying."
  },
  {
    "start": 1432.95,
    "end": 1434.29,
    "text": "now industry has evolved."
  },
  {
    "start": 1434.33,
    "end": 1442.23,
    "text": "we're at a different place where mainstream adopter financial institutions banks whatever They don't want to try everything."
  },
  {
    "start": 1442.45,
    "end": 1445.17,
    "text": "just wanted you give them box literally."
  },
  {
    "start": 1446.75,
    "end": 1449.47,
    "text": "You know, money in that is not stable coins."
  },
  {
    "start": 1449.57,
    "end": 1452.75,
    "text": "Money out it is stable coins or something here?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1452.85,
    "end": 1456.45,
    "text": "In this box will create a magical token as depositor of some thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1458.149,
    "end": 1459.95,
    "text": "I think that and its good."
  },
  {
    "start": 1460.01,
    "end": 1460.31,
    "text": "It's good."
  },
  {
    "start": 1460.37,
    "end": 1461.31,
    "text": "they want solutions."
  },
  {
    "start": 1461.37,
    "end": 1467.37,
    "text": "They don't want product then one edge like devices or something Like the actually wanted solution."
  },
  {
    "start": 1467.95,
    "end": 1476.149,
    "text": "but I think that with this specific technology, you still need to have at least like one or two people inside every institution."
  },
  {
    "start": 1476.57,
    "end": 1481.53,
    "text": "They really understand the core of this technology."
  },
  {
    "start": 1481.69,
    "end": 1482.67,
    "text": "what do i mean by core?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1483.73,
    "end": 1485.67,
    "text": "You know, how does really a blockchain work?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1485.99,
    "end": 1488.61,
    "text": "What are the real properties of different chains."
  },
  {
    "start": 1488.99,
    "end": 1511.53,
    "text": "How could you as a financial institution or business can actually leverage a property or two to create a mode Or to create some sort of an edge for yourself because if everyone just runs The same playbook Then I'm not sure that's the right way for them to create Some sort of a business advantage."
  },
  {
    "start": 1511.91,
    "end": 1514.889,
    "text": "so If you're asking what they are doing wrong, I don't think that's right."
  },
  {
    "start": 1515.19,
    "end": 1524.37,
    "text": "But i just need to make sure They have like one or two people who can actually get down into the nitty-gritty and then bring That back up Into."
  },
  {
    "start": 1524.69,
    "end": 1527.389,
    "text": "What Can The Business use To create value out"
  },
  {
    "start": 1527.43,
    "end": 1527.47,
    "text": "of?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1528.19,
    "end": 1538.09,
    "text": "Yeah And this also really echoes well with feel when we talk, you know to clients about this topic is really that they have the feeling."
  },
  {
    "start": 1538.129,
    "end": 1546.23,
    "text": "You understand there's high level and it can be stable coins as can be digital identity, digital euro but if not going into the nitty-gritty details also the technical detail."
  },
  {
    "start": 1547.55,
    "end": 1549.69,
    "text": "so I totally see that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1550.45,
    "end": 1560.87,
    "text": "Goldy he talked A little bit about that before, when you joined OpenUSD one of the reasons Fireblock wants to be like... The infrastructure layer is kind of agnostic."
  },
  {
    "start": 1561.33,
    "end": 1566.85,
    "text": "Stablecoins here other products there doesn't matter which blockchains everything."
  },
  {
    "start": 1568.45,
    "end": 1569.149,
    "text": "what do want offer?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1570.129,
    "end": 1572.25,
    "text": "maybe really, really high level and in simple terms."
  },
  {
    "start": 1572.33,
    "end": 1577.29,
    "text": "Our key audience here are a lot of people from the financial sector also working digital assets team."
  },
  {
    "start": 1577.35,
    "end": 1580.35,
    "text": "but what is this fire blocks infrastructure you're talking about?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1581.91,
    "end": 1585.389,
    "text": "So if somebody uses fireblocks like which problem is the solving?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1585.45,
    "end": 1586.11,
    "text": "What can they use?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1586.61,
    "end": 1588.87,
    "text": "yeah well that's good question."
  },
  {
    "start": 1588.95,
    "end": 1593.45,
    "text": "probably our marketing team will yell at me for not starting with dad when I introduce myself."
  },
  {
    "start": 1593.97,
    "end": 1598.07,
    "text": "all right so real quickly because commercial."
  },
  {
    "start": 1599.91,
    "end": 1607.41,
    "text": "We've built over the last eight years what we believe is probably you know, the most scalable infrastructure to run digital asset applications."
  },
  {
    "start": 1607.49,
    "end": 1608.05,
    "text": "What does that mean?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1608.59,
    "end": 1623.33,
    "text": "If you are a Neobank like Revolute or NewBank and want wallets, meaning like stablecoin accounts or other type of digital asset based accounts for your users."
  },
  {
    "start": 1623.41,
    "end": 1626.87,
    "text": "You would probably use Fireblocks to create those wallets in a secure manner."
  },
  {
    "start": 1627.27,
    "end": 1637.11,
    "text": "Or if you want to tokenize an asset Like we've tokenized more than one hundred assets today including stablecoins and bonds And whatnot will have We have a platform to do that at scale."
  },
  {
    "start": 1637.49,
    "end": 1638.81,
    "text": "or If you are payments company?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1638.97,
    "end": 1657.129,
    "text": "We have about three hundred fifty payment companies Including you know stripe and visa and new vey and A lot of different great companies that are just moving stablecoins from one place to another, either if they want to do merchant settlement so their merchants could get settled faster or over the weekend like checkout.com is doing?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1657.649,
    "end": 1663.69,
    "text": "Or If you wanted to do APAR faster then That's a never type of use case we're seeing!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1668.37,
    "end": 1673.85,
    "text": "Currently experiencing like twenty to thirty percent growth quarter over a quarter, which is really astonishing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1674.57,
    "end": 1679.07,
    "text": "That specific use case of sending stable coins two marketplace creators."
  },
  {
    "start": 1680.23,
    "end": 1684.61,
    "text": "So we would be that platform that allows you do all those different use cases."
  },
  {
    "start": 1684.79,
    "end": 1695.49,
    "text": "put You know the governance layer on top of that The policies their enterprise need the identity slash AML KYC layers that are needed to adhere to regulation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1695.99,
    "end": 1704.95,
    "text": "All of that today is packaged in a platform, and I'm happy to say that today we power seventy percent financial institutions globally."
  },
  {
    "start": 1705.55,
    "end": 1710.03,
    "text": "Fifteen percent of every blockchain transfer in the world moves through fire blocks."
  },
  {
    "start": 1710.07,
    "end": 1718.51,
    "text": "so we have really good view like what's happening and interesting And last year moved about six trillion dollars."
  },
  {
    "start": 1718.59,
    "end": 1728.91,
    "text": "this year i can only assume it will be much more than We want to think of ourselves as the go-to infrastructure for this world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1730.129,
    "end": 1735.55,
    "text": "And even if you said before that, we won is not about you personally or Fireblocks but the industry."
  },
  {
    "start": 1735.71,
    "end": 1742.77,
    "text": "one could also argue it could be us about Fireblox because by far most of market share."
  },
  {
    "start": 1743.51,
    "end": 1744.67,
    "text": "Yeah super impressive!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1745.649,
    "end": 1757.85,
    "text": "When when look into this infrastructure volume going via the fireblocks infrastructure Is there like a key comment denominator when it comes to the use cases that are used for?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1758.05,
    "end": 1759.73,
    "text": "Or is this really... So, you know."
  },
  {
    "start": 1759.81,
    "end": 1769.149,
    "text": "It's their key use case that the platform has been useful as segmented across many different use cases maybe with similar shares which just be curious to understand what"
  },
  {
    "start": 1769.35,
    "end": 1790.43,
    "text": "does- I think The most important piece That also shared by everyone and people sometimes underestimate And it sounds like so trivial, but just having... It doesn't matter if you're creating wallets for others or you are creating a wallet for your treasury management."
  },
  {
    "start": 1790.49,
    "end": 1801.649,
    "text": "So you could do repatriation of funds faster Or If You Are Creating A Wallet To Hold The Tokenized Asset Because You Wanted to Create A Yield-Bearing Bond For Your Users."
  },
  {
    "start": 1803.71,
    "end": 1806.81,
    "text": "The Wallet Is the Main Piece That's Shared By Everyone."
  },
  {
    "start": 1808.129,
    "end": 1808.83,
    "text": "You know, it's funny."
  },
  {
    "start": 1809.11,
    "end": 1813.83,
    "text": "We didn't know we will be creating the most secured wallet in the world when we started?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1814.33,
    "end": 1830.87,
    "text": "We just wanted to allow people to do faster transfers and not just faster like more secure transfers between exchange A and exchange B. but then one of the first feedbacks really like Firebox didn't even start as a wallet."
  },
  {
    "start": 1831.31,
    "end": 1831.49,
    "text": "right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1831.649,
    "end": 1832.91,
    "text": "is that like a custodial?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1833.53,
    "end": 1835.03,
    "text": "sorry there was a platform for wallets."
  },
  {
    "start": 1835.629,
    "end": 1837.25,
    "text": "people could make it a custodian platform later."
  },
  {
    "start": 1837.35,
    "end": 1847.43,
    "text": "But one of the earliest feedbacks were like, hey can you... We not necessarily want to move this to an overexchange we might just wanna hold."
  },
  {
    "start": 1848.37,
    "end": 1864.77,
    "text": "And then that really helped us as we were like doing a lot of customer discovery, come to the understanding that The Wallet piece will actually be THE most important piece and which again I'm really happy We went down there because it helps us create this MPC protocol or bring It up through the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1864.83,
    "end": 1869.629,
    "text": "They would say Run the most secure wallet infrastructure."
  },
  {
    "start": 1869.73,
    "end": 1871.23,
    "text": "Well, you've done a fantastic job."
  },
  {
    "start": 1871.31,
    "end": 1877.29,
    "text": "So I mean, you know kudos to guys and we do need to talk about AI."
  },
  {
    "start": 1877.41,
    "end": 1880.09,
    "text": "of course That's that's a requirement nowadays."
  },
  {
    "start": 1880.87,
    "end": 1881.03,
    "text": "Yeah"
  },
  {
    "start": 1881.19,
    "end": 1886.73,
    "text": "when it is a huge It's a huge topic And love to get your view because you talked about it a little bit differently."
  },
  {
    "start": 1886.87,
    "end": 1888.43,
    "text": "Most people talking about AI"
  },
  {
    "start": 1888.79,
    "end": 1888.91,
    "text": "or"
  },
  {
    "start": 1889.91,
    "end": 1892.57,
    "text": "or AI payments and bots, things like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1892.889,
    "end": 1895.57,
    "text": "And you talk more in terms of agentic commerce."
  },
  {
    "start": 1896.11,
    "end": 1897.21,
    "text": "so maybe to double click on."
  },
  {
    "start": 1897.25,
    "end": 1898.43,
    "text": "what do you mean by that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1899.27,
    "end": 1902.85,
    "text": "How does this represent a shift into how commerce is done today?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1903.35,
    "end": 1914.85,
    "text": "First I will say as tech guy i'm big believer And I'm a big believer in agent to commerce because they can see it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1915.05,
    "end": 1921.59,
    "text": "I have open claw myself, I've been running agents and trying to pay for stuff i Can't see where is gonna go?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1922.37,
    "end": 1926.21,
    "text": "Second thing I will say Is that none of this happening right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 1926.77,
    "end": 1938.47,
    "text": "an all-I'm seeing is vendors doing A lot of joint testing and obviously PRs as well but like joined projects."
  },
  {
    "start": 1938.57,
    "end": 1939.55,
    "text": "Now no That's fine."
  },
  {
    "start": 1940.25,
    "end": 1945.389,
    "text": "I we've partake of that because We do believe that this will be the future."
  },
  {
    "start": 1945.67,
    "end": 1948.99,
    "text": "but it's just important for me to set The scene so people won't think they're right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 1949.05,
    "end": 1954.27,
    "text": "There's like a trillion agents running out there and paying no, there's not Right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1954.57,
    "end": 1959.59,
    "text": "The way we thought about This is again from fire blocks his view their."
  },
  {
    "start": 1959.75,
    "end": 1961.51,
    "text": "first of all we joined the export to foundation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1961.59,
    "end": 1968.35,
    "text": "It took us some time But eventually we decided okay That's probably what we really believed in Out Of All Different Types."
  },
  {
    "start": 1968.93,
    "end": 1978.67,
    "text": "And What we believe is, We've heard a lot of people say you need to be able to issue a card or to issue wallet for every agent."
  },
  {
    "start": 1979.149,
    "end": 1984.81,
    "text": "And we actually took the other side that our CEO Michael if never met him."
  },
  {
    "start": 1984.99,
    "end": 1992.07,
    "text": "he's like one of smartest best operators out there but really believes in hands-on."
  },
  {
    "start": 1992.19,
    "end": 2005.21,
    "text": "so made all us buy Mac minis and install Open Claw and they told us you have a week to do this, actually go out and start buying stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 2005.93,
    "end": 2006.129,
    "text": "Right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2006.29,
    "end": 2006.889,
    "text": "And see how it"
  },
  {
    "start": 2006.95,
    "end": 2007.21,
    "text": "works.\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 2007.83,
    "end": 2014.71,
    "text": "Then we hit so many walls when we issued wallets for every time our agent went just through something."
  },
  {
    "start": 2015.149,
    "end": 2020.43,
    "text": "We realized that's not the right approach because then we ended up with like seventy wallets each and we need to reconcile them."
  },
  {
    "start": 2020.73,
    "end": 2021.31,
    "text": "We said okay no!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2021.83,
    "end": 2026.59,
    "text": "Our approach again as platform that has created more than probably you"
  },
  {
    "start": 2026.85,
    "end": 2026.99,
    "text": "know,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2027.29,
    "end": 2028.55,
    "text": "seven hundred million wallets today."
  },
  {
    "start": 2029.29,
    "end": 2036.41,
    "text": "We want to enable our clients to give their users a delegated access to a wallet."
  },
  {
    "start": 2036.75,
    "end": 2037.55,
    "text": "what do I mean by that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2037.99,
    "end": 2047.19,
    "text": "Let's say you are Revolute and your running Fireblocks And You're already user of Revolue ,you already have A Wallet .You don't Want... You Already Have an Account!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2047.69,
    "end": 2049.61,
    "text": "You Don'T wanna issue an account To Your Agent !"
  },
  {
    "start": 2049.73,
    "end": 2054.05,
    "text": "You Just Wanna Manage The Delegated Access You Can Give That Agent."
  },
  {
    "start": 2054.43,
    "end": 2057.71,
    "text": "what can they spend on, what terms how and why?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2057.75,
    "end": 2060.41,
    "text": "Because if you'll just create more and more accounts."
  },
  {
    "start": 2060.81,
    "end": 2061.57,
    "text": "You will get lost."
  },
  {
    "start": 2061.61,
    "end": 2068.11,
    "text": "there would be a lot of dust over there meaning like residue money in these wallets which doesn't make sense as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 2068.57,
    "end": 2069.79,
    "text": "So we took that angle."
  },
  {
    "start": 2069.89,
    "end": 2089.29,
    "text": "We created whole layer to delegate access To an agent from existing wallet but also build the other side where because were powering so many PSP's to receive, you know requests from agents and then via an X-forward to facilitator."
  },
  {
    "start": 2089.33,
    "end": 2090.35,
    "text": "I don't want to get too technical."
  },
  {
    "start": 2090.75,
    "end": 2093.73,
    "text": "Basically accept that type of payment."
  },
  {
    "start": 2093.87,
    "end": 2099.35,
    "text": "so we're trying to do both sides And i'll be very honest it's still early days."
  },
  {
    "start": 2099.49,
    "end": 2101.17,
    "text": "We are now working with a lot of vendors."
  },
  {
    "start": 2101.39,
    "end": 2103.25,
    "text": "we haven't seen a lot Of transactions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2104.13,
    "end": 2108.05,
    "text": "yeah by the way uh...I think That is super refreshing And this is what I love."
  },
  {
    "start": 2108.31,
    "end": 2111.27,
    "text": "and the new having you as a guest was going to get that straight answer."
  },
  {
    "start": 2111.81,
    "end": 2118.49,
    "text": "Because there's so much PR out there, but we also have to be grounded in where are today?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2119.35,
    "end": 2119.47,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 2120.07,
    "end": 2125.63,
    "text": "And when we talk about agentic and also like maybe a genetic payments in this, uh, context as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 2125.71,
    "end": 2129.07,
    "text": "so I agree that lot of this is still fantasy and the lot off."
  },
  {
    "start": 2129.17,
    "end": 2131.19,
    "text": "just you know it's story storytelling."
  },
  {
    "start": 2131.35,
    "end": 2135.05,
    "text": "um Also agreed with directions heading or the future is heading into this direction."
  },
  {
    "start": 2135.11,
    "end": 2136.09,
    "text": "What do you think Goldie?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2136.15,
    "end": 2139.35,
    "text": "Is there let's say The means of payments for agents?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2139.51,
    "end": 2141.11,
    "text": "So put differently Do your things."
  },
  {
    "start": 2141.15,
    "end": 2145.05,
    "text": "stable coins You know will be heavily used by agents For payments."
  },
  {
    "start": 2145.23,
    "end": 2150.67,
    "text": "Or you know Will this Be traditional rails or i don't Know Maybe something even we don't know or foresee today?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2151.11,
    "end": 2155.97,
    "text": "Yeah, I think that question is actually a lot of questions together."
  },
  {
    "start": 2156.45,
    "end": 2157.89,
    "text": "So what do you mean by that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2158.59,
    "end": 2169.37,
    "text": "look i think digital money Or digital assets will be the backbone Of The financial infrastructure globally for settlement."
  },
  {
    "start": 2170.05,
    "end": 2181.37,
    "text": "now i'm not trying to confuse anyone i'm just trying To say then i don't Know if it's a stable coin By the way, or Is It A token as Deposit that has some interoperability with other token as deposits, maybe."
  },
  {
    "start": 2181.81,
    "end": 2183.69,
    "text": "That's how an agent will pay I don't know?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2184.17,
    "end": 2191.75,
    "text": "I know that an agent who'll play with a currency is in like with dollars or with Mexican peso whatever and they're."
  },
  {
    "start": 2191.81,
    "end": 2206.09,
    "text": "no I'm sure that the agent would want to be instantly meaning they were probably need to use digital assets right there reality I think like, you know a card is just a form factor."
  },
  {
    "start": 2206.17,
    "end": 2215.17,
    "text": "really it could be stablecoins in the back and even if In The Future they will Just pay with i don't Know Like ACH transfers maybe ACH Will run those table coins right."
  },
  {
    "start": 2215.21,
    "end": 2220.85,
    "text": "we can only hope Zell Is Obviously Making Those Moves Right And Creating Their Own Stablecoin."
  },
  {
    "start": 2221.13,
    "end": 2223.09,
    "text": "so why not that So good point yeah?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2223.59,
    "end": 2223.69,
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 2223.99,
    "end": 2231.23,
    "text": "So my Point is like Agents Will Pay With the fastest payment method That Supports This Smallest Type of Payment."
  },
  {
    "start": 2231.65,
    "end": 2234.21,
    "text": "Today That's a stable coin, one hundred percent."
  },
  {
    "start": 2234.63,
    "end": 2244.73,
    "text": "Tomorrow it could be a token as deposit or another payment rail that has evolved and is running different settlement layer underneath to use that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2245.05,
    "end": 2248.79,
    "text": "Okay so crystal ball time despite all of this right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2249.37,
    "end": 2249.69,
    "text": "Bitcoin"
  },
  {
    "start": 2249.73,
    "end": 2250.53,
    "text": "price at eighty three K?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2252.47,
    "end": 2253.65,
    "text": "no bitcoin price I promise."
  },
  {
    "start": 2255.53,
    "end": 2267.85,
    "text": "but what percentage online commerce do you think in five years will involve an actual human being clicking by now, as opposed to kind of initiated in whatever that infrastructure ends up being."
  },
  {
    "start": 2268.25,
    "end": 2270.49,
    "text": "Some software acting on behalf over a human right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2271.21,
    "end": 2272.03,
    "text": "And two part questions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2272.07,
    "end": 2272.71,
    "text": "and what does it mean?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2272.85,
    "end": 2275.75,
    "text": "obviously for banks PSPs merchants etc."
  },
  {
    "start": 2276.25,
    "end": 2277.51,
    "text": "your core segments?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2278.47,
    "end": 2288.09,
    "text": "Yeah I try To remind myself That fifty percent Of B-to-B payments In the US are still done By checks."
  },
  {
    "start": 2288.35,
    "end": 2299.39,
    "text": "I try to remind myself that from time-to-time, so that i wouldn't get ahead of my skis in thinking how much the world has evolved."
  },
  {
    "start": 2300.11,
    "end": 2307.39,
    "text": "And when you ask me a question like that five years into future what's percentage of online commerce?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2307.87,
    "end": 2310.07,
    "text": "They think we're both human clicking by now."
  },
  {
    "start": 2310.83,
    "end": 2313.13,
    "text": "So I will tell you this... I'll split my answer for two."
  },
  {
    "start": 2313.59,
    "end": 2323.07,
    "text": "If were talking about monetary value I think that ninety-five percent, at least will still be done by humans."
  },
  {
    "start": 2323.47,
    "end": 2332.31,
    "text": "If we're talking about the amount of transactions which i think would be different because again this is our wishful thinking for agents right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2332.93,
    "end": 2345.13,
    "text": "They could be doing micropayments which we cannot today then...I'd probably say twenty per cent global transactions if not even thirty would an agent?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2345.65,
    "end": 2348.53,
    "text": "Right, but I'm not sure it's the monetary value because i don't think you will."
  },
  {
    "start": 2349.75,
    "end": 2350.09,
    "text": "You know how?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2350.31,
    "end": 2351.01,
    "text": "I bought my car."
  },
  {
    "start": 2351.47,
    "end": 2355.21,
    "text": "I went on tesla calm a few years ago and I clicked buy."
  },
  {
    "start": 2355.31,
    "end": 2363.09,
    "text": "now I'm Not gonna let an agent click that by now button But if they want to go and buy domain for me for a dollar short"
  },
  {
    "start": 2363.33,
    "end": 2363.83,
    "text": "Yeah It's great way."
  },
  {
    "start": 2363.91,
    "end": 2364.97,
    "text": "look at it honestly."
  },
  {
    "start": 2365.09,
    "end": 2367.99,
    "text": "Because uh hundred percent with you mean is you Know ten years?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2368.05,
    "end": 2372.55,
    "text": "so it's going to be very different potentially yeah, but it takes A lot longer than people."
  },
  {
    "start": 2372.61,
    "end": 2373.65,
    "text": "thank absolutely."
  },
  {
    "start": 2374.11,
    "end": 2376.13,
    "text": "hey um Oh great, you understood."
  },
  {
    "start": 2376.41,
    "end": 2385.01,
    "text": "Yeah it's really good to zoom out here Goldie right because of my expectations or we forget that we are still kind living in our bubble."
  },
  {
    "start": 2385.19,
    "end": 2387.09,
    "text": "I mean obviously volumes increase."
  },
  {
    "start": 2387.99,
    "end": 2392.03,
    "text": "We're talking about millions billions part leaving trillions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2392.35,
    "end": 2402.25,
    "text": "so its a complete different position than ten years ago but still not everywhere and thats also something i think we have to remind ourselves from time-to-time just wanted."
  },
  {
    "start": 2402.77,
    "end": 2406.83,
    "text": "So I think what we want to do next, we're going to run out of time unfortunately."
  },
  {
    "start": 2407.17,
    "end": 2415.37,
    "text": "There's always never enough time... We'll have you on again i'm sure but what we are introducing now is kind of a new segment and uh let Jonas lead this."
  },
  {
    "start": 2415.57,
    "end": 2417.89,
    "text": "um we call it the lightning round right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2418.65,
    "end": 2422.07,
    "text": "It just literally quick questions in your top-of-mind answers."
  },
  {
    "start": 2422.95,
    "end": 2423.59,
    "text": "Yes, exactly."
  },
  {
    "start": 2423.67,
    "end": 2425.17,
    "text": "So it's really just about everything."
  },
  {
    "start": 2425.23,
    "end": 2432.65,
    "text": "you're the perfect candidate to do this The first time because they're not giving us very long bullshit answers but Very sharp and clear answer."
  },
  {
    "start": 2432.73,
    "end": 2434.07,
    "text": "so It's really about You know."
  },
  {
    "start": 2434.17,
    "end": 2436.35,
    "text": "three quick question whatever comes to mind of use."
  },
  {
    "start": 2436.43,
    "end": 2438.57,
    "text": "or you know Just in a few in a couple seconds?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2438.67,
    "end": 2439.91,
    "text": "Oh let's try this out."
  },
  {
    "start": 2440.69,
    "end": 2440.83,
    "text": "Yeah!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2442.27,
    "end": 2442.73,
    "text": "What are your think?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2442.77,
    "end": 2445.19,
    "text": "Goldie is the biggest misconception About stablecoins?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2446.05,
    "end": 2447.23,
    "text": "Ah easy then They're cheaper."
  },
  {
    "start": 2448.95,
    "end": 2449.35,
    "text": "Okay,"
  },
  {
    "start": 2449.81,
    "end": 2450.87,
    "text": "they're not faster."
  },
  {
    "start": 2451.15,
    "end": 2452.45,
    "text": "They're faster than cheaper."
  },
  {
    "start": 2452.51,
    "end": 2455.49,
    "text": "if you can derive economic value from speed go use them."
  },
  {
    "start": 2456.65,
    "end": 2458.71,
    "text": "If you don't then it's another currency."
  },
  {
    "start": 2459.35,
    "end": 2460.49,
    "text": "that is a great answer"
  },
  {
    "start": 2461.19,
    "end": 2461.35,
    "text": "okay."
  },
  {
    "start": 2462.27,
    "end": 2462.99,
    "text": "And what do you think?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2463.13,
    "end": 2466.41,
    "text": "Is overhyped in the digital money and digital asset space?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2467.15,
    "end": 2467.75,
    "text": "stable coins?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2468.29,
    "end": 2470.09,
    "text": "no I mean"
  },
  {
    "start": 2470.19,
    "end": 2471.09,
    "text": "first of all honestly"
  },
  {
    "start": 2471.71,
    "end": 2474.33,
    "text": "Honestly yes stable coins are overhype."
  },
  {
    "start": 2477.87,
    "end": 2479.17,
    "text": "Okay, okay."
  },
  {
    "start": 2479.65,
    "end": 2480.09,
    "text": "Fair enough."
  },
  {
    "start": 2480.59,
    "end": 2483.97,
    "text": "and then the question in other direction what's underhyped?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2484.21,
    "end": 2485.63,
    "text": "What does that not get?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2486.55,
    "end": 2487.41,
    "text": "attention it should get?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2488.61,
    "end": 2489.07,
    "text": "Identity?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2490.17,
    "end": 2493.19,
    "text": "again I would think either identity or privacy."
  },
  {
    "start": 2493.95,
    "end": 2500.67,
    "text": "but i think privacy is getting into a more hyped area Not bad hype like good hype."
  },
  {
    "start": 2501.15,
    "end": 2504.29,
    "text": "there are some more privacy chains privacy protocols."
  },
  {
    "start": 2504.93,
    "end": 2512.41,
    "text": "identity is such an underhyped issue that, and when crypto started by the way it was hyped."
  },
  {
    "start": 2512.63,
    "end": 2514.93,
    "text": "There were like sixteen companies trying to do identity."
  },
  {
    "start": 2515.07,
    "end": 2515.87,
    "text": "they all died."
  },
  {
    "start": 2516.57,
    "end": 2520.89,
    "text": "but now It's funny because now its a new world."
  },
  {
    "start": 2521.19,
    "end": 2523.19,
    "text": "You need try everything you tried before?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2523.31,
    "end": 2528.33,
    "text": "You need to try again Because people are listening And I know Like i was there where they didn't."
  },
  {
    "start": 2528.77,
    "end": 2531.43,
    "text": "So Identity definitely"
  },
  {
    "start": 2531.99,
    "end": 2535.13,
    "text": "Cool, and then maybe you said identity will play a core role."
  },
  {
    "start": 2535.21,
    "end": 2543.19,
    "text": "And obviously we do agree here like your also recently launched the open transactions layer right which is also in some part related to all of that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2543.25,
    "end": 2544.73,
    "text": "Like Which problem are you trying to solve?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2544.77,
    "end": 2546.07,
    "text": "may be also just quickly too."
  },
  {
    "start": 2546.13,
    "end": 2546.65,
    "text": "close this up?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2547.21,
    "end": 2548.83,
    "text": "Yeah No way by the way."
  },
  {
    "start": 2549.03,
    "end": 2555.81,
    "text": "please everyone go to OTL Don Network Open Transaction Layer OPEN OTL don network and check it out."
  },
  {
    "start": 2555.91,
    "end": 2580.15,
    "text": "what We did Is we really believe That now is The time to create that coordination protocol between entities who are moving money on chain, payments or any type of movement of money is not just sending dollars you know, just doing a push payment to an address."
  },
  {
    "start": 2580.21,
    "end": 2580.99,
    "text": "That's not payments."
  },
  {
    "start": 2581.41,
    "end": 2582.03,
    "text": "Payments is."
  },
  {
    "start": 2582.49,
    "end": 2583.29,
    "text": "what's the intent?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2583.35,
    "end": 2595.37,
    "text": "Doing pre-flight checks, po-flight check running business process on whatever it is that your moving checking identities for verified credentials of sorts or credit investors and whatnot."
  },
  {
    "start": 2595.79,
    "end": 2597.03,
    "text": "this whole world."
  },
  {
    "start": 2597.39,
    "end": 2605.71,
    "text": "messaging allowing people have more data transactions we always found missing but no one cared."
  },
  {
    "start": 2606.25,
    "end": 2609.91,
    "text": "Now people care because now there's banks involved."
  },
  {
    "start": 2609.95,
    "end": 2624.31,
    "text": "There is financial institutions as well, more and more People who cannot move an inch without having identity Because of regulators or having the more information on transactions because of regulators which Is a good thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 2624.73,
    "end": 2628.91,
    "text": "so yes we're putting A lot of effort On that open transaction layer."
  },
  {
    "start": 2629.17,
    "end": 2630.77,
    "text": "I really hope will be able to do it."
  },
  {
    "start": 2631.17,
    "end": 2633.35,
    "text": "Yeah, I think it's absolutely a very clever move."
  },
  {
    "start": 2633.69,
    "end": 2637.65,
    "text": "We've also engaged with Melody and Felix and others."
  },
  {
    "start": 2637.73,
    "end": 2640.49,
    "text": "maybe we'll have them on the show and do a deeper dive in that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2640.61,
    "end": 2642.03,
    "text": "It is absolutely critical!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2642.53,
    "end": 2646.27,
    "text": "We're absolutely convinced identity and compliance has to go hand-in-hand."
  },
  {
    "start": 2646.33,
    "end": 2647.55,
    "text": "so well done on that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2647.87,
    "end": 2654.15,
    "text": "Goalie unfortunately were running out of time trying keep these at about forty five minutes right up against."
  },
  {
    "start": 2655.21,
    "end": 2657.07,
    "text": "Thank you so much, really appreciate."
  },
  {
    "start": 2657.37,
    "end": 2660.51,
    "text": "You join us today in sharing all your wisdom and knowledge."
  },
  {
    "start": 2663.07,
    "end": 2663.17,
    "text": "I'm"
  },
  {
    "start": 2663.79,
    "end": 2668.59,
    "text": "always happy to tell you the truth from my point of view on things."
  },
  {
    "start": 2669.15,
    "end": 2674.31,
    "text": "And this was very insightful, so thanks Golden for my side and we will link information too!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2676.03,
    "end": 2681.07,
    "text": "For Fireblocks also an open transaction layer as well with Christian Catalini in these show notes."
  },
  {
    "start": 2681.29,
    "end": 2683.19,
    "text": "Also our audience."
  },
  {
    "start": 2683.27,
    "end": 2683.89,
    "text": "Thanks for joining."
  },
  {
    "start": 2683.95,
    "end": 2685.05,
    "text": "Bitcoin Fiat Rock'n Roll."
  },
  {
    "start": 2685.55,
    "end": 2686.89,
    "text": "Hope you enjoyed this episode."
  },
  {
    "start": 2687.23,
    "end": 2694.61,
    "text": "If you like this podcast feel free to recommend us To your friends family or whoever is interested in the future of money."
  },
  {
    "start": 2694.83,
    "end": 2697.99,
    "text": "So yeah, this was it for today and see you next episode!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2698.15,
    "end": 2698.33,
    "text": "Thanks"
  },
  {
    "start": 2720.79,
    "end": 2721.71,
    "text": "everyone."
  }
]