[
  {
    "start": 16.7,
    "end": 21.29,
    "text": "Hello and welcome to another episode of BFRR, our Bitcoin Fiat & Rock'n Roll podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 21.41,
    "end": 22.49,
    "text": "My name is Stefan Grasman."
  },
  {
    "start": 22.71,
    "end": 27.69,
    "text": "Today we're taking a closer look at how financial market infrastructure actually evolving in practice."
  },
  {
    "start": 27.85,
    "end": 47.23,
    "text": "We've discussed many of these topics from different angles on the podcast From tokenization To digital money And new rails But what's often missing Is their perspective within institutions that run today And that's exactly why I'm looking forward to todays conversation with Thilo Derenbach from Deutsche Börser, ClearStream."
  },
  {
    "start": 47.39,
    "end": 48.03,
    "text": "Welcome Thilo!"
  },
  {
    "start": 48.45,
    "end": 49.629,
    "text": "Hi Stefan, good to see you."
  },
  {
    "start": 49.849,
    "end": 50.39,
    "text": "thanks for having me."
  },
  {
    "start": 50.67,
    "end": 50.849,
    "text": "Great,"
  },
  {
    "start": 50.93,
    "end": 59.31,
    "text": "Thilo your working as Head of Sales and BD in Digital Security Services at ClearStREAM & are in constant exchange with clients and market participants."
  },
  {
    "start": 59.97,
    "end": 63.73,
    "text": "Before we dive into the bigger topics, let's first calibrate our audience."
  },
  {
    "start": 64.01,
    "end": 66.13,
    "text": "What exactly is your role today at BSTream?"
  },
  {
    "start": 66.81,
    "end": 70.95,
    "text": "And how does it connect to the broader transformation happening in Deutsche Börse and BSTREAM?"
  },
  {
    "start": 71.21,
    "end": 71.31,
    "text": "Yeah"
  },
  {
    "start": 71.43,
    "end": 72.07,
    "text": "sure!"
  },
  {
    "start": 72.25,
    "end": 76.83,
    "text": "Perhaps just a baseline of whole conversation... So Deutsche Böse Group is an exchange organization."
  },
  {
    "start": 77.37,
    "end": 84.67,
    "text": "It runs the German market so the cash market derivatives markets ...it has integrated exchange organizations."
  },
  {
    "start": 85.25,
    "end": 98.21,
    "text": "that offers trading clearing What we call in the traditional world settlement custody asset servicing data dissemination products and in that sense is one of, I would say leading exchanges."
  },
  {
    "start": 99.01,
    "end": 103.01,
    "text": "Depending on product type in Europe but certainly globally active."
  },
  {
    "start": 104.07,
    "end": 115.47,
    "text": "when i represent clear stream in this podcast then also from an employment perspective and clear stream what do you want to post trade processing engine off German stock exchange?"
  },
  {
    "start": 115.55,
    "end": 122.61,
    "text": "so that would be comparable to something like the DTCC in US, Europe clears or other infrastructures in Asia."
  },
  {
    "start": 123.17,
    "end": 127.61,
    "text": "So we conduct everything that follows trading and clearing actually."
  },
  {
    "start": 127.75,
    "end": 131.35,
    "text": "so everything that we call settlement custody asset servicing."
  },
  {
    "start": 131.71,
    "end": 135.87,
    "text": "And when you talk about assets just to clarify this point We talked about securities."
  },
  {
    "start": 136.29,
    "end": 141.63,
    "text": "In Europe there is what typically called a MIFIT instrument That clarifies the organization."
  },
  {
    "start": 141.91,
    "end": 148.49,
    "text": "My role then as you say conduct business development, commercialize the products that we have."
  },
  {
    "start": 148.93,
    "end": 158.65,
    "text": "And of course a large proportion of our revenues are still related to traditional security services I would say and but we focus more and more."
  },
  {
    "start": 158.75,
    "end": 167.31,
    "text": "in ninety nine percent of my time i focused on digital initiatives But will talk about digitization and other things Of course In this podcast at length."
  },
  {
    "start": 167.99,
    "end": 169.13,
    "text": "Absolutely absolutely."
  },
  {
    "start": 169.25,
    "end": 176.03,
    "text": "so you're fully immersed For the audience, how was your way into this world?"
  },
  {
    "start": 176.09,
    "end": 181.03,
    "text": "So where did you come from and what qualified or... How do get that interesting job at Clearstream."
  },
  {
    "start": 181.23,
    "end": 183.23,
    "text": "I think many envy for that role!"
  },
  {
    "start": 183.83,
    "end": 186.41,
    "text": "Yeah, Jennifer we know each other quite some time."
  },
  {
    "start": 186.67,
    "end": 206.51,
    "text": "roles seem to evolve a little bit From traditional Treadfy roles in more web-free oriented or digital roles indeed And actually it is probably one of my most exciting roles Geographically, the most exciting time I think was when I was running The London Office a couple of years ago."
  },
  {
    "start": 206.59,
    "end": 207.71,
    "text": "but content-wise."
  },
  {
    "start": 208.09,
    "end": 218.67,
    "text": "The aspect of digitization comes very close to the exciting days of late nineties and early two thousands When we saw the electronefication of stock exchanges."
  },
  {
    "start": 219.41,
    "end": 221.49,
    "text": "that's the time where it started to work."
  },
  {
    "start": 222.23,
    "end": 229.73,
    "text": "Ultra exciting times because if you move from floor trading to electroneffications in that brought all other good things you know, dark pools."
  },
  {
    "start": 230.39,
    "end": 242.31,
    "text": "You know high frequency trading all of these wonderful things globally available trading activities and we see a similar sort of super cycle if you like in the financial markets now with digitization."
  },
  {
    "start": 242.37,
    "end": 249.13,
    "text": "so I couldn't be more excited about this role that i've had for bit more than three years."
  },
  {
    "start": 249.21,
    "end": 251.79,
    "text": "So im not a typical... Im NOT a crypto dude!"
  },
  {
    "start": 252.33,
    "end": 253.83,
    "text": "I don't come from that background."
  },
  {
    "start": 253.89,
    "end": 258.849,
    "text": "I'm actually Finding his way in the digital space"
  },
  {
    "start": 259.07,
    "end": 262.15,
    "text": "with a very good understanding of this base,"
  },
  {
    "start": 262.19,
    "end": 262.39,
    "text": "I guess."
  },
  {
    "start": 264.87,
    "end": 267.57,
    "text": "Oh Always honestly Stefan there's always more to learn."
  },
  {
    "start": 267.65,
    "end": 277.81,
    "text": "i mean we might talk about you know recent news later on But it's just astonishing then amount of news that you get now in the market On a daily basis."
  },
  {
    "start": 278.19,
    "end": 292.43,
    "text": "so Just a little excursion that one We write and weekly Digital newsletter And I must read my own newsletter that my colleagues, of course produce because i regularly miss one two or three really noteworthy messages in the market."
  },
  {
    "start": 292.47,
    "end": 293.63,
    "text": "Because there's just too much going on."
  },
  {
    "start": 294.03,
    "end": 297.41,
    "text": "I know exactly what you're talking about, because the same problem space."
  },
  {
    "start": 297.47,
    "end": 300.59,
    "text": "But i also might have a solution but more on that after the podcast!"
  },
  {
    "start": 301.05,
    "end": 301.19,
    "text": "Okay..."
  },
  {
    "start": 302.65,
    "end": 312.45,
    "text": "But given your role in sales and business development You are in quite unique position I think Because you constantly exposed to real client demand Not just internal strategic discussions."
  },
  {
    "start": 312.79,
    "end": 314.79,
    "text": "So where do currently see strongest?"
  },
  {
    "start": 315.01,
    "end": 320.33,
    "text": "pull from the market, where are clients actually pushing you for change?"
  },
  {
    "start": 320.47,
    "end": 321.39,
    "text": "For new offerings."
  },
  {
    "start": 321.51,
    "end": 321.75,
    "text": "Perhaps"
  },
  {
    "start": 322.29,
    "end": 324.89,
    "text": "one disclaimer beforehand on our clarification."
  },
  {
    "start": 324.97,
    "end": 331.53,
    "text": "rather when I talk about clients these would be exclusively and entirely institutional players."
  },
  {
    "start": 331.77,
    "end": 343.87,
    "text": "so we as a ClearStream organization don't engage with end investor not retail investors or any other end investor unless it is a bank financial intermediary professional of the financial markets."
  },
  {
    "start": 344.21,
    "end": 345.95,
    "text": "But that is the community we service."
  },
  {
    "start": 346.31,
    "end": 352.23,
    "text": "So my messages will be slightly different to perhaps responses from others, as you've already interviewed here in this podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 352.87,
    "end": 356.01,
    "text": "but uh...to your question then where's the biggest pull or push?"
  },
  {
    "start": 356.15,
    "end": 361.21,
    "text": "From their perspective it is generally the aspect of digitization."
  },
  {
    "start": 361.79,
    "end": 378.81,
    "text": "everyone in the industry yeah I'll claim every one pretty much everyone at least has understood that digitalisation leading way forward make or keep market participants and market players competitive, it brings numerous advantages."
  },
  {
    "start": 379.07,
    "end": 384.81,
    "text": "And this is where I insist on the aspect of digitization rather than blockchain technology or tokenization."
  },
  {
    "start": 384.91,
    "end": 402.83,
    "text": "specifically digitalization delivers speed efficiency data consistency to twenty four seven capabilities but also operational effects irrespectively over the underlying tech so that Everyone has understood and everyone wants to reap those benefits."
  },
  {
    "start": 402.87,
    "end": 411.33,
    "text": "So generally that push is towards Tilo or Clearstream or Deutsche Börse, you will operate and run financial markets."
  },
  {
    "start": 412.15,
    "end": 415.53,
    "text": "help us transition into the digital age if you like."
  },
  {
    "start": 416.05,
    "end": 419.49,
    "text": "deliver products so we can onward deliver them for our clients."
  },
  {
    "start": 420.27,
    "end": 427.81,
    "text": "classic B-to-B-to C sort of infrastructure therefore become more digital so that we can become more digital."
  },
  {
    "start": 428.13,
    "end": 432.17,
    "text": "I would say, leave it there for the moment and will certainly dive deeper into those aspects."
  },
  {
    "start": 432.25,
    "end": 433.93,
    "text": "but generally what they're pushing for"
  },
  {
    "start": 434.37,
    "end": 440.37,
    "text": "Okay okay And if you keep with that push You just told me you came back from Miami from consensus conference."
  },
  {
    "start": 441.67,
    "end": 445.71,
    "text": "A little bit of a dread leg i guess But We all know these discussions on stage."
  },
  {
    "start": 446.21,
    "end": 450.33,
    "text": "In my experience The discussion is always in the future."
  },
  {
    "start": 451.29,
    "end": 453.45,
    "text": "There's also different things."
  },
  {
    "start": 455.45,
    "end": 457.87,
    "text": "Could you help us to dissect that difference a bit?"
  },
  {
    "start": 457.95,
    "end": 463.43,
    "text": "So what is actual demand today compared to what it's usually discussed on these stages."
  },
  {
    "start": 466.05,
    "end": 473.83,
    "text": "belittle what is mentioned on those stages, because the people mention there not only their belief but it's actually happening around them."
  },
  {
    "start": 474.23,
    "end": 479.35,
    "text": "The question how sizable that volume and in comparison right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 479.83,
    "end": 483.99,
    "text": "I mean someone like Kliestream or other infrastructures are similar."
  },
  {
    "start": 484.43,
    "end": 494.81,
    "text": "we will be you know from a volume perspective rolling midsize European markers GDP every day in terms of volume, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 495.13,
    "end": 499.19,
    "text": "So when people tell us or tell you I have three billion on this."
  },
  {
    "start": 499.57,
    "end": 503.25,
    "text": "Or five and a half million off that That's all very nice."
  },
  {
    "start": 503.31,
    "end": 505.05,
    "text": "but then the grand scheme are things."
  },
  {
    "start": 505.51,
    "end": 508.43,
    "text": "it actually drop into ocean again not belittling activity."
  },
  {
    "start": 508.79,
    "end": 511.37,
    "text": "sometimes its not put into context."
  },
  {
    "start": 511.93,
    "end": 515.25,
    "text": "so thats why i would insist thats still good."
  },
  {
    "start": 515.329,
    "end": 522.569,
    "text": "ninety nine percent overall financial market activities still is traditional world slowly moving to new worlds."
  },
  {
    "start": 522.709,
    "end": 531.01,
    "text": "But what we see on stage are the dynamics and the sort of pathways to future behavior, future habits, future activities."
  },
  {
    "start": 531.57,
    "end": 539.93,
    "text": "There's a lot of talk around tokenization of real-world assets or RWA or I would call Real World Securities which is important."
  },
  {
    "start": 540.31,
    "end": 546.43,
    "text": "there's lots of talks about mobility and reuse of assets."
  },
  {
    "start": 547.29,
    "end": 550.85,
    "text": "Vaults are a hot topic, of course everywhere at the moment."
  },
  {
    "start": 551.03,
    "end": 559.39,
    "text": "Tokenization in general is digital cash solutions for any form and color top-of-the list but reality."
  },
  {
    "start": 560.13,
    "end": 569.91,
    "text": "if we look at least financial market intermediaries so banks or other professionals in that segment vast majority will have only started their journey."
  },
  {
    "start": 570.87,
    "end": 584.31,
    "text": "some are very forefront But the wider audience of the market is not so far advanced yet, but they are all willing and Of course able to transition into that digital space."
  },
  {
    "start": 584.35,
    "end": 585.67,
    "text": "But we'll need some time."
  },
  {
    "start": 586.11,
    "end": 593.77,
    "text": "It takes Not only time it takes money it takes resources And know-how to actually transition and this is where we all have to work together."
  },
  {
    "start": 593.83,
    "end": 598.81,
    "text": "So the vast volume in effect perhaps I will use one number."
  },
  {
    "start": 599.65,
    "end": 607.11,
    "text": "So out of the roughly twenty two trillion assets that we hold and DTCC announced, We might talk about this later again."
  },
  {
    "start": 607.49,
    "end": 612.83,
    "text": "Announced they're looking to tokenize more than a hundred trillion dollars worth of securities."
  },
  {
    "start": 613.49,
    "end": 620.37,
    "text": "That's very big number compared to possibly one or three billion of assets that are already tokenized."
  },
  {
    "start": 620.41,
    "end": 625.51,
    "text": "so The dynamics there is still very unbalanced."
  },
  {
    "start": 625.61,
    "end": 625.95,
    "text": "I would say"
  },
  {
    "start": 627.37,
    "end": 629.43,
    "text": "Thank you for that, better understanding."
  },
  {
    "start": 630.13,
    "end": 637.27,
    "text": "But before we go into these use cases and this latest news from DTCC and others let's first stay a bit on Deutsche Börse Group."
  },
  {
    "start": 638.61,
    "end": 643.35,
    "text": "so when you Google Deutsche Børse group there is lot of acronyms come up."
  },
  {
    "start": 643.45,
    "end": 652.65,
    "text": "So that's Deutsche Bürse itself, Glierstream, You have D-Seven, you've financed into startups like GryptoFinance."
  },
  {
    "start": 653.63,
    "end": 660.67,
    "text": "Could you give us an overview on how these different entities play together and which services they offer to whom?"
  },
  {
    "start": 661.07,
    "end": 662.83,
    "text": "I think that helps a lot in our discussion!"
  },
  {
    "start": 663.21,
    "end": 667.49,
    "text": "Yeah no i'll try to dissect that... And i'm not going down the marketing route."
  },
  {
    "start": 667.53,
    "end": 672.21,
    "text": "so keep it high level and really just focussed on some of the elements."
  },
  {
    "start": 672.55,
    "end": 674.99,
    "text": "No but ill start with very generic sentence."
  },
  {
    "start": 675.41,
    "end": 676.63,
    "text": "that is very important to understand."
  },
  {
    "start": 676.69,
    "end": 681.75,
    "text": "And then when we talk about different entities and how they work together, I think it will become clearer."
  },
  {
    "start": 682.33,
    "end": 688.03,
    "text": "so our if you want mantra is to digitize financial markets."
  },
  {
    "start": 688.31,
    "end": 698.27,
    "text": "as an exchange organization We run markets ,we work for the entire market .We cannot afford i would say or we don't push individual use cases."
  },
  {
    "start": 698.35,
    "end": 708.23,
    "text": "specifically Whatever we deploy needs to be available and applicable to the general financial market at large period."
  },
  {
    "start": 708.59,
    "end": 709.61,
    "text": "That's an important message!"
  },
  {
    "start": 710.31,
    "end": 720.61,
    "text": "We roll into this digital space, transition in that Digital Financial Market environment along three key driving principles."
  },
  {
    "start": 720.79,
    "end": 733.43,
    "text": "one is... ...that we have digitization of our mindset so like a digital first sort of mindset but we need to maintain a hybrid infrastructure because of what I've said earlier."
  },
  {
    "start": 733.51,
    "end": 741.51,
    "text": "Because the market at large is not yet transitioning or has not transitioned, and it will take you couple years until they do so."
  },
  {
    "start": 742.97,
    "end": 758.41,
    "text": "that allows market participants to remain in traditional world but start reaping benefits for digitization equally servicing native on-chain players who want access liquidity collateral instruments from the traditional worlds."
  },
  {
    "start": 758.91,
    "end": 761.39,
    "text": "This digital first hybrid infrastructure, I think is important."
  },
  {
    "start": 761.43,
    "end": 774.07,
    "text": "The second element is expansion of asset classes and i'll come back to that in a second when we talk about the legal entities you mentioned but the security space that we cover as an important MIFID instruments."
  },
  {
    "start": 774.97,
    "end": 782.75,
    "text": "MECA instruments stablecoin script occurrences and e-money tokens are becoming more popular also in institutional spaces."
  },
  {
    "start": 782.87,
    "end": 795.69,
    "text": "so The third element here from an asset class expansion perspective is that we talk about securities as financial instruments, but there's so many other non-securities financial instruments in the market."
  },
  {
    "start": 796.17,
    "end": 810.61,
    "text": "Credit notes export letters of credit bank guarantees syn loans promissory nodes all these sorts of things that form part of the financial services industry keep financial markets going and still are not digital."
  },
  {
    "start": 812.53,
    "end": 813.65,
    "text": "That's a wider picture."
  },
  {
    "start": 813.71,
    "end": 820.19,
    "text": "So expansion of asset classes is very large and important for us, And the third element of that strategy Is partnerships."
  },
  {
    "start": 820.83,
    "end": 824.87,
    "text": "so we acknowledge that Of course We can't do everything ourselves."
  },
  {
    "start": 825.53,
    "end": 830.33,
    "text": "Partnerships with modern on-chain web three players is Important!"
  },
  {
    "start": 830.47,
    "end": 846.43,
    "text": "And we announced Kraken & Ondo and A few other relationships and partnerships to learn To expand jointly because we are clear in our understanding Again, financial markets will be digital and there is a new environment ecosystem developing."
  },
  {
    "start": 846.51,
    "end": 847.71,
    "text": "And we need to be part of that."
  },
  {
    "start": 847.91,
    "end": 849.65,
    "text": "We cannot stay in our traditional world."
  },
  {
    "start": 850.13,
    "end": 858.79,
    "text": "So having said that scene if you talk about the different entities You have trading venues that are very traditional."
  },
  {
    "start": 858.93,
    "end": 876.65,
    "text": "so cash market like CETRA or Frankfurt's Floor Trading FWB Trading The Eurex Trading Entities for derivatives The Clearing Organization and Clearstream from a more traditional, vertical sort of value proposition."
  },
  {
    "start": 877.87,
    "end": 894.53,
    "text": "The names that are interesting going forward and playing part in the web-three environment would be the likes of Three Sixty X, Three DX, Crypto Finance and D-Seven Funtiality as well but I'll stay with those main elements."
  },
  {
    "start": 895.09,
    "end": 911.97,
    "text": "so on the trading side i talked about this hybrid environment we need trading venues And we're developing and building out trading venues that service tokenized securities, Mika instruments in other on-chain assets."
  },
  {
    "start": 912.67,
    "end": 915.59,
    "text": "That's what ThreeSixTX or threeDx would be doing."
  },
  {
    "start": 916.53,
    "end": 916.97,
    "text": "next to them."
  },
  {
    "start": 917.03,
    "end": 918.09,
    "text": "We have crypto finance."
  },
  {
    "start": 918.17,
    "end": 922.75,
    "text": "We acquired crypto finance entirely a couple of years ago now."
  },
  {
    "start": 923.07,
    "end": 931.09,
    "text": "Crypto Finance is Swiss organization FINMA regulated but also with the Mika license off course with a German entity that we work with."
  },
  {
    "start": 931.55,
    "end": 945.25,
    "text": "And crypto finance focuses entirely on the trading, the safekeeping of the administration as far as it's servicing if you like and of course staking of cryptocurrencies and other Mika instruments also stablecoins."
  },
  {
    "start": 945.65,
    "end": 948.03,
    "text": "so another very important complement for us."
  },
  {
    "start": 948.91,
    "end": 963.57,
    "text": "Then you have D-Seven which is the post trade digital infrastructure real world assets, so securities in the traditional sense but also tokenized and natively issued securities."
  },
  {
    "start": 964.07,
    "end": 972.75,
    "text": "So you can picture as again thinking of that hybrid model-the traditional infrastructure."
  },
  {
    "start": 974.91,
    "end": 981.85,
    "text": "And we're now taking these puzzle pieces and connecting them front to back, if you want from a securities processing perspective."
  },
  {
    "start": 983.19,
    "end": 997.97,
    "text": "You are starting for vertical integration of the value proposition along technical rails... ...and interoperability between infrastructures because of our need to offer hybrid infrastructure to traditional players as well as native players."
  },
  {
    "start": 998.69,
    "end": 999.19,
    "text": "I'll leave that there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1002.29,
    "end": 1010.43,
    "text": "Maybe one follow up question on that, because there's always an intense discussion with gratify players where blockchain actually fits into their old world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1011.21,
    "end": 1013.41,
    "text": "And many of them answer with post-trade."
  },
  {
    "start": 1014.03,
    "end": 1017.97,
    "text": "So if you look at NASDAQ and IC and DTCC You get a feeling okay."
  },
  {
    "start": 1018.41,
    "end": 1020.27,
    "text": "they want to keep the trading venue as is."
  },
  {
    "start": 1020.33,
    "end": 1022.95,
    "text": "They say this is optimized for speed."
  },
  {
    "start": 1023.27,
    "end": 1026.369,
    "text": "Let's try to keep it There At least for time being."
  },
  {
    "start": 1027.409,
    "end": 1034.05,
    "text": "Bring in blockchain For the post date settlement stuff like Which for me looks a bit conservative, I would say."
  },
  {
    "start": 1034.45,
    "end": 1044.81,
    "text": "When i listen to you and your setup of the different entities sounds like a different approach that also look into this trading venue part at least."
  },
  {
    "start": 1045.129,
    "end": 1047.29,
    "text": "so what's your position against these American players?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1047.329,
    "end": 1050.969,
    "text": "Do they go on the same route or is it subtly different?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1051.709,
    "end": 1061.33,
    "text": "You bring in the geographic element as well irrespectively of that one, just generalizing or generally putting this into context."
  },
  {
    "start": 1061.75,
    "end": 1069.31,
    "text": "So looking at it from a post trade perspective off course makes sense because post-trade infrastructure is complex."
  },
  {
    "start": 1069.489,
    "end": 1084.689,
    "text": "beast trading as sorry my colleagues will probably not like when I say but its relatively simple compared to trying make security move across the globe in different jurisdictions for settlement and custody purposes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1084.889,
    "end": 1099.649,
    "text": "That's where the complexity comes from, that is when all of life cycle events come into the predictable but also the unpredictable corporate event which brings complexity And therefore the processing effort or operational risk is high."
  },
  {
    "start": 1100.27,
    "end": 1106.31,
    "text": "So bringing it to digital technology helps for sure."
  },
  {
    "start": 1107.449,
    "end": 1109.649,
    "text": "It definitely is a right place."
  },
  {
    "start": 1111.129,
    "end": 1116.81,
    "text": "Is it the only place to apply digitization or digital technologies, namely blockchain technology?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1117.27,
    "end": 1117.31,
    "text": "No."
  },
  {
    "start": 1117.429,
    "end": 1117.83,
    "text": "It is not."
  },
  {
    "start": 1118.449,
    "end": 1133.969,
    "text": "we think that Not only are we moving into the digital space We also believe that Blockchain Technology is that technology That will be used going forward and it will be use along And across The value chain of a security in other asset classes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1134.469,
    "end": 1136.25,
    "text": "We firmly have this belief."
  },
  {
    "start": 1137.729,
    "end": 1142.389,
    "text": "while we might have started in the post-trade space, and it looks like its a Post-Trade Space."
  },
  {
    "start": 1142.429,
    "end": 1144.01,
    "text": "But I mentioned that in Kirstjen."
  },
  {
    "start": 1144.07,
    "end": 1147.449,
    "text": "we start issuing the securities and process them."
  },
  {
    "start": 1147.57,
    "end": 1153.969,
    "text": "so life of security actually starts with the post trade entity because they get issued there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1154.229,
    "end": 1159.409,
    "text": "So thats why you know looking at end of this process."
  },
  {
    "start": 1159.81,
    "end": 1170.129,
    "text": "well these infrastructures generally the Security gets created to Start With And here, we've already seen that and other infrastructures have as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1170.57,
    "end": 1172.689,
    "text": "That digitization at unit level."
  },
  {
    "start": 1172.889,
    "end": 1179.11,
    "text": "so with every transaction or security that gets issued you see the benefits of digitalisation"
  },
  {
    "start": 1179.629,
    "end": 1180.429,
    "text": "i.e.,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1180.689,
    "end": 1198.489,
    "text": "speed of issuance, efficiency in process, operational effects it has I can give an example on this one for a second and also ensuring data consistency which is easily kick-started, if you like."
  },
  {
    "start": 1198.629,
    "end": 1222.469,
    "text": "If you originate the security as a smart digital object and I think that's an important aspect what we need to ensure at our end then this will apply to others as well... ...if we want to offer say twenty four seven always on services Which we cannot today in the traditional world We'll need entirely digital rails And for the whole life cycle of the security For example!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1224.489,
    "end": 1226.85,
    "text": "our clients won't be able to provide it to their client either."
  },
  {
    "start": 1227.29,
    "end": 1241.969,
    "text": "So if we stick and were to stay stuck in a whatever, fourteen five sort of scenario where typically are today because there's no settlement or custody activity over the weekend then We're never going to reach that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1242.07,
    "end": 1245.969,
    "text": "And That is Where will fall behind competitors that I know market can."
  },
  {
    "start": 1246.209,
    "end": 1249.489,
    "text": "Or moving towards a twenty-four sevens service."
  },
  {
    "start": 1250.629,
    "end": 1253.75,
    "text": "just on this blockchain aspect, one other or last comment."
  },
  {
    "start": 1254.169,
    "end": 1264.909,
    "text": "We like to compare it in the car industry not only because of hybrid engine a very efficient combustion engine with an electric engine that can grow over time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1265.37,
    "end": 1271.59,
    "text": "but actually we believe and you know this Stefan right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1271.83,
    "end": 1281.61,
    "text": "No-one's questioning any longer whether hydrogen would be much better for energy for a car would be much better than electricity."
  },
  {
    "start": 1282.37,
    "end": 1285.189,
    "text": "It might, but it's not even a question any longer right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1285.229,
    "end": 1287.969,
    "text": "That decision has been made regulations being built around it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1288.51,
    "end": 1294.669,
    "text": "certain regions in the world are dominating that product an electric vehicle and pushing them into industry."
  },
  {
    "start": 1294.83,
    "end": 1296.909,
    "text": "so we can all assume they're moving forward."
  },
  {
    "start": 1297.429,
    "end": 1299.55,
    "text": "blockchain technology is quite similar."
  },
  {
    "start": 1299.61,
    "end": 1305.77,
    "text": "in that sense digital technologies will deliver value like hydrogen versus electricity."
  },
  {
    "start": 1306.37,
    "end": 1309.129,
    "text": "The decision has been made that blockchain technology is the one."
  },
  {
    "start": 1309.169,
    "end": 1316.51,
    "text": "That's going to move forward in the financial services industry and regulation starting to be built, written around blockchain technology."
  },
  {
    "start": 1317.149,
    "end": 1330.149,
    "text": "And then you have DTCC, Euroclear as SGX Hong Kong stock exchange many ASX SDX or Swiss exchange Many infrastructures Starting to deploy blockchain technology As well as market participants."
  },
  {
    "start": 1330.209,
    "end": 1331.57,
    "text": "So this where we're going."
  },
  {
    "start": 1333.489,
    "end": 1338.729,
    "text": "The ship has sailed, basically what I'm saying regarding the technology and therefore we need to push that forward."
  },
  {
    "start": 1339.129,
    "end": 1346.53,
    "text": "Maybe one critical question for this section of our conversation up... Many, many web three proponents."
  },
  {
    "start": 1347.149,
    "end": 1348.689,
    "text": "they talk a lot including myself."
  },
  {
    "start": 1349.11,
    "end": 1354.689,
    "text": "A lot about unbundling and rebundling And creating more competition on an open platform."
  },
  {
    "start": 1354.77,
    "end": 1361.31,
    "text": "in the end Now we see all these behemoth players In US and Europe everywhere actually moving."
  },
  {
    "start": 1361.51,
    "end": 1367.01,
    "text": "You are best example that you innovate On all levels to embrace this new technology."
  },
  {
    "start": 1367.59,
    "end": 1379.969,
    "text": "Do think This will be bit of more Open future That were heading too or I think you need to try it, to stay in the same rather monopolistic stage as you are."
  },
  {
    "start": 1380.25,
    "end": 1382.709,
    "text": "That's a commercial goal of company like yours."
  },
  {
    "start": 1383.189,
    "end": 1384.07,
    "text": "but how do see that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1384.149,
    "end": 1388.189,
    "text": "Will there be unbundling and rebundling which is somewhat unavoidable?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1388.35,
    "end": 1395.129,
    "text": "through their technology or if they can't stay at one stop shop for your clients then they're willing pay the fee for"
  },
  {
    "start": 1395.169,
    "end": 1395.35,
    "text": "them?\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 1395.75,
    "end": 1396.33,
    "text": "So no!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1396.889,
    "end": 1402.05,
    "text": "It's good question and many who will listen this podcast probably won't agree with me."
  },
  {
    "start": 1402.969,
    "end": 1405.909,
    "text": "the reality is, and they might have to wake up to that reality."
  },
  {
    "start": 1407.969,
    "end": 1414.409,
    "text": "Of course I'm generalizing this one-on-one textbook stuff with an industrial revolution."
  },
  {
    "start": 1415.01,
    "end": 1417.189,
    "text": "Cards are being missed."
  },
  {
    "start": 1417.689,
    "end": 1421.53,
    "text": "whatever English word it's mixed again a new."
  },
  {
    "start": 1422.229,
    "end": 1432.75,
    "text": "And of course incumbents while they have right to win... They have to earn their rights because Stay competitive."
  },
  {
    "start": 1432.79,
    "end": 1440.35,
    "text": "They have to be on their toes and you know, embrace the new technology bring things forward and deliver value in The End To The Clients."
  },
  {
    "start": 1440.689,
    "end": 1443.11,
    "text": "otherwise they do not Have a right to win Right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1443.59,
    "end": 1448.83,
    "text": "And this is where any market participant Any incumbent player would Be left behind."
  },
  {
    "start": 1448.909,
    "end": 1455.25,
    "text": "so if we were to sit On our hands Obviously, no one would give us the right to win."
  },
  {
    "start": 1455.629,
    "end": 1457.149,
    "text": "but we are moving forward."
  },
  {
    "start": 1457.27,
    "end": 1468.27,
    "text": "We're pushing that agenda digitizing the financial markets forward and for last few years were putting millions of euros or dollars against this message."
  },
  {
    "start": 1468.55,
    "end": 1468.689,
    "text": "Right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1468.79,
    "end": 1478.35,
    "text": "We're committing a lot money to deploy digital technologies on our own purposes so they can become better as well as enable clients in BtoB to see space."
  },
  {
    "start": 1480.25,
    "end": 1483.129,
    "text": "All of the incumbent players going to survive, I do not know."
  },
  {
    "start": 1483.449,
    "end": 1484.11,
    "text": "Possibly not!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1484.29,
    "end": 1490.149,
    "text": "Those who don't move certainly would find it difficult... ...to remain relevant in this"
  },
  {
    "start": 1490.189,
    "end": 1490.53,
    "text": "space.\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 1491.11,
    "end": 1492.149,
    "text": "Will we be in the future?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1492.31,
    "end": 1495.629,
    "text": "This is probably where many people will hopefully agree."
  },
  {
    "start": 1496.129,
    "end": 1502.409,
    "text": "Will we call ourselves as a CSD, a central security depository?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1503.57,
    "end": 1515.169,
    "text": "Possibly no but there's gonna something else that we are neutral and highly regulated robust, very scalable infrastructure will play a role of call it orchestration."
  },
  {
    "start": 1515.429,
    "end": 1524.35,
    "text": "Of markets which is perfectly fine right but we will have to show an evidence and our value contribution to the market into the clients otherwise off course."
  },
  {
    "start": 1524.409,
    "end": 1532.429,
    "text": "We have no rights to claim or insist that we remain relevant for the next decade And there's a lot of innovation coming in."
  },
  {
    "start": 1532.51,
    "end": 1547.469,
    "text": "so again perhaps looking back Not many floor stock brokers still exist and certainly not as floor stockbrokers in the traditional sense of the nineties or early two thousands."
  },
  {
    "start": 1548.07,
    "end": 1559.689,
    "text": "Some have evolved into real market makers, you know providing lots of liquidity offering high frequency trading capabilities across trading venues across the globe."
  },
  {
    "start": 1560.209,
    "end": 1563.409,
    "text": "but that classic floor trader we all remember from back then."
  },
  {
    "start": 1564.35,
    "end": 1570.469,
    "text": "They don't exist any longer, and it's okay because they would not be able to compete in this electronic high-frequency environment."
  },
  {
    "start": 1570.929,
    "end": 1582.129,
    "text": "So here again if we were not too digitized so I didn't want to dwell on that for a long time... If you wanted to push forward the digitalization in our own engine We will find it difficult to be able To compete."
  },
  {
    "start": 1582.33,
    "end": 1582.55,
    "text": "why?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1583.09,
    "end": 1584.909,
    "text": "And perhaps allow me that last sentence!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1585.35,
    "end": 1595.27,
    "text": "We clearly see In the retail space On chain A lot of developments That we think into the institutional space."
  },
  {
    "start": 1595.33,
    "end": 1618.969,
    "text": "So, a type of retailization of the industry where things like fractionalization instant transactions immediate confirmation or whatever transaction it is they always on twenty four seven sort-of character of the environment thinks that a retail investor basically assumes as normal nowadays will become."
  },
  {
    "start": 1619.25,
    "end": 1630.53,
    "text": "we think And if that is the case, then things need to change in the infrastructures and certainly the incumbents will need to changed more because we have legacy infrastructure."
  },
  {
    "start": 1630.83,
    "end": 1637.969,
    "text": "We have mainframe infrastructure still here and there even though everything or pretty much every thing's on a cloud doesn't make any difference."
  },
  {
    "start": 1638.129,
    "end": 1638.889,
    "text": "you're still process."
  },
  {
    "start": 1639.77,
    "end": 1642.469,
    "text": "fourteen five your engine does not work differently."
  },
  {
    "start": 1643.05,
    "end": 1646.03,
    "text": "Here are some competitors from web three world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1646.729,
    "end": 1653.53,
    "text": "of course They have no legacy to carry around, they start off from a not an easier base but more advanced space."
  },
  {
    "start": 1653.57,
    "end": 1656.11,
    "text": "So we have to keep up very different one now."
  },
  {
    "start": 1658.33,
    "end": 1674.449,
    "text": "Before we jump back into today's episode A quick word about an event close to our hearts The Point Zero Forum An annual gathering of over two thousand policymakers, central bankers regulators and industry leaders at the intersection of finance technology."
  },
  {
    "start": 1674.55,
    "end": 1675.11,
    "text": "And policy."
  },
  {
    "start": 1675.85,
    "end": 1691.949,
    "text": "BFRR is proud media partner off the point zero forum an we'll be reporting life on site with the full co-host team organized by the Global Finance and Technology Network, and the Swiss State Secretariat of Finance."
  },
  {
    "start": 1692.01,
    "end": 1696.969,
    "text": "The Point Zero Forum takes place in Zurich from twenty-third to twenty fifth June."
  },
  {
    "start": 1697.169,
    "end": 1715.629,
    "text": "twenty-twenty six this year's lineup includes swiss federal councillor Karin Keller Souter Tavasi or Paolo Ardoino former crypto head of policy at Andresen Horowitz Brian Quintens Nvidia's EMEA financial technology lead Dr."
  },
  {
    "start": 1715.889,
    "end": 1725.09,
    "text": "Jochen Papenbrock, the agenda covers everything from AI in financial services and digital assets of stable coins tokenization."
  },
  {
    "start": 1732.37,
    "end": 1746.689,
    "text": "Come meet us in Zurich, register at pointzeroforum.com and as a BFRR listener you get thirty percent off the full-price industry pass with code BFRR."
  },
  {
    "start": 1746.75,
    "end": 1750.51,
    "text": "twenty twenty six I repeat."
  },
  {
    "start": 1757.81,
    "end": 1761.909,
    "text": "But I really like that because and you also mentioned these three pillars, which are focusing on."
  },
  {
    "start": 1762.01,
    "end": 1763.669,
    "text": "And the third was this partnerships."
  },
  {
    "start": 1763.989,
    "end": 1767.53,
    "text": "That's what i recommend to all our clients is that hey come one!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1767.629,
    "end": 1768.909,
    "text": "You won't reinvent the wheel there."
  },
  {
    "start": 1769.05,
    "end": 1776.649,
    "text": "some blockchain native companies have seven eight sometimes ten years of advantage in how an on-chain vault for example works yeah?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1776.889,
    "end": 1784.709,
    "text": "I think centrifuges in its eighth year or fourth version or a third players like Quite interesting and versatile."
  },
  {
    "start": 1784.909,
    "end": 1792.909,
    "text": "And I think mixed together with the requirements from the Treadfy side can actually create quite a unique combination, successful one for my perspective."
  },
  {
    "start": 1792.989,
    "end": 1795.429,
    "text": "So congrats to that idea!"
  },
  {
    "start": 1795.729,
    "end": 1797.03,
    "text": "To look out for partnerships"
  },
  {
    "start": 1797.129,
    "end": 1807.429,
    "text": "No absolutely i mean The agility is just staggering...I won't name the company nor generalize this again but our release cycles."
  },
  {
    "start": 1807.489,
    "end": 1816.929,
    "text": "we have monthly smaller releases But three very large releases still in the traditional world a year, March or June and November release broadly speaking."
  },
  {
    "start": 1816.989,
    "end": 1818.409,
    "text": "And then smaller ones in between right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1819.07,
    "end": 1827.489,
    "text": "When I talk to an on-chain trading venue... My next release is three months down the road."
  },
  {
    "start": 1828.01,
    "end": 1839.79,
    "text": "they look at you and it's like that Three Months is lifetime for us because the competition amongst them within Web Three It's so aggressive, the competition is high."
  },
  {
    "start": 1840.25,
    "end": 1846.889,
    "text": "They cannot afford to wait three months for a new key feature and bring new products or services into market."
  },
  {
    "start": 1847.29,
    "end": 1851.189,
    "text": "We could in the past but now we need to adapt it as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1851.229,
    "end": 1859.53,
    "text": "But there are still discrepancies between their capabilities in terms of speed and delivery competitors hours when it comes to larger releases."
  },
  {
    "start": 1860.33,
    "end": 1862.649,
    "text": "That must be acknowledged and we must acknowledge that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1862.75,
    "end": 1878.03,
    "text": "It's fair, it is a very realistic and sober view but... We have to work on this because otherwise in few years time if you keep up the pace then they move at their pace they will be in a very different place, twelve months from here."
  },
  {
    "start": 1878.35,
    "end": 1878.85,
    "text": "Absolutely"
  },
  {
    "start": 1878.929,
    "end": 1879.25,
    "text": "absolutely."
  },
  {
    "start": 1879.61,
    "end": 1889.59,
    "text": "but this talk about partnerships leads us to the next section where we want to talk about industry shifts and convergence And you just announced an investment into Kraken About two hundred million."
  },
  {
    "start": 1889.949,
    "end": 1891.909,
    "text": "could You take as a bit on that journey?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1892.01,
    "end": 1896.03,
    "text": "As far as your allowed to tell us what's there What's the reasoning behind That?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1896.11,
    "end": 1896.77,
    "text": "how it does that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1896.83,
    "end": 1904.07,
    "text": "for me personally I thought okay you would tokenize A lot of Securities now via via d seven and gradually more on blockchain."
  },
  {
    "start": 1904.709,
    "end": 1910.07,
    "text": "Is that somewhat related to engaging with Kraken as an interesting trading venue there?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1910.209,
    "end": 1917.55,
    "text": "Or what part of Kraken, which is already also quite a beast was the most interesting part that brought you into that investment actually."
  },
  {
    "start": 1917.87,
    "end": 1926.409,
    "text": "Yeah I am and work in the post-trade space so i can talk about these sort of aspects but it's of course a larger consideration from a group perspective."
  },
  {
    "start": 1926.469,
    "end": 1929.429,
    "text": "And then goes back To What I said earlier."
  },
  {
    "start": 1929.55,
    "end": 1939.189,
    "text": "right if we truly believe in our digital transformation and the digital strategy of digitizing financial markets."
  },
  {
    "start": 1939.27,
    "end": 1951.889,
    "text": "As I said, we need to move that strategy forward quickly And to your point just whatever thirty forty seconds ago when you said actually You cannot build all this yourself."
  },
  {
    "start": 1952.29,
    "end": 1956.669,
    "text": "do not assume That you can't do all of these yourself In a short period of time?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1962.969,
    "end": 1971.03,
    "text": "Therefore, we've entered into a number of partnerships including a partnership with Kraken which we announced somewhere towards the end last year."
  },
  {
    "start": 1971.09,
    "end": 1978.79,
    "text": "I think it was twenty-twenty five is basically an actual consequent development or deepening of that relationships."
  },
  {
    "start": 1979.129,
    "end": 1988.449,
    "text": "So the partnerships themselves already help us to advance our understanding, our knowledge, accelerate our work integrate solutions from those partners and vice versa."
  },
  {
    "start": 1988.57,
    "end": 1991.29,
    "text": "it's really a two-way street with the partners we've announced."
  },
  {
    "start": 1991.33,
    "end": 1996.469,
    "text": "so be it the stablecoin issuers, the Krakens or the Ondos but also some others who have been announced."
  },
  {
    "start": 1996.87,
    "end": 2002.889,
    "text": "But for your question investment is really to accelerate digital asset strategy."
  },
  {
    "start": 2003.27,
    "end": 2011.79,
    "text": "It isn't an aim because we've already talked about the hybrid model, but it enhances that confirmation or underlines a conformation."
  },
  {
    "start": 2012.37,
    "end": 2024.889,
    "text": "We want to run digital first-but-hybrid infrastructures Because we have our traditional world and someone an investment in And very strong partner therefore In web three space For us."
  },
  {
    "start": 2026.03,
    "end": 2030.03,
    "text": "If you think about financial markets of future Be at Kraken."
  },
  {
    "start": 2030.11,
    "end": 2039.689,
    "text": "But these Web Three players will be large part doesn't not necessarily dominant place, but they will play a very relevant role in that future environment."
  },
  {
    "start": 2039.909,
    "end": 2047.35,
    "text": "And hence we want to be close To those in that environment have a foot in the door and then in the future financial market?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2048.37,
    "end": 2066.589,
    "text": "Be able to continue to service our clients In the traditional world for those who want to stay there and remain therefore longer But also than moving forward and opening the door much further for Deutsche Börse Group to provide digital services, product and services to its client."
  },
  {
    "start": 2067.069,
    "end": 2081.31,
    "text": "And when I talk clients again these are institutional clients banks but also larger fintechs and offer settlement custody security services or asset services for securities and other asset"
  },
  {
    "start": 2081.37,
    "end": 2081.63,
    "text": "types.\"."
  },
  {
    "start": 2081.889,
    "end": 2082.989,
    "text": "You mentioned Ondo."
  },
  {
    "start": 2083.389,
    "end": 2085.13,
    "text": "what's the reasoning behind that partnership?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2089.87,
    "end": 2105.109,
    "text": "On-chain, say trading venues or distribution venues are large players with investor bases that very intensively and extensively looking to invest into securities on other asset types."
  },
  {
    "start": 2106.33,
    "end": 2108.21,
    "text": "They live entirely in the blockchain."
  },
  {
    "start": 2108.67,
    "end": 2125.37,
    "text": "they have wallets investment opportunities capital to invest Assets scope in which they can invest into and of course securities represent a very large, relevant sort investment vehicle."
  },
  {
    "start": 2125.529,
    "end": 2126.69,
    "text": "If I could call it that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2127.19,
    "end": 2130.73,
    "text": "but these Securities are classically not yet on chain."
  },
  {
    "start": 2131.049,
    "end": 2131.97,
    "text": "They sit in the tradition."
  },
  {
    "start": 2132.049,
    "end": 2132.27,
    "text": "world."
  },
  {
    "start": 2132.49,
    "end": 2134.27,
    "text": "talked about the twenty two trillion with us."
  },
  {
    "start": 2135.75,
    "end": 2138.089,
    "text": "hundred plus trillion was your clear."
  },
  {
    "start": 2138.13,
    "end": 2141.67,
    "text": "sorry with DTCC you will have something in the forties or fifties as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 2142.13,
    "end": 2151.25,
    "text": "So you have roughly hundred eighty trillion, two hundred trillion of assets security asset sitting still in the traditional world that are not yet accessible to."
  },
  {
    "start": 2152.009,
    "end": 2152.83,
    "text": "on-chain players."
  },
  {
    "start": 2153.19,
    "end": 2160.15,
    "text": "What they do have access to are wrappers or derivatives of those securities, but it's not quite the same thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 2160.33,
    "end": 2163.13,
    "text": "I'm going into details about that asset."
  },
  {
    "start": 2163.23,
    "end": 2171.65,
    "text": "servicing security and having a derivative on chain you can invest in is not entirely the same."
  },
  {
    "start": 2171.93,
    "end": 2174.089,
    "text": "But we'll leave this aside for now."
  },
  {
    "start": 2174.23,
    "end": 2185.35,
    "text": "The key point is very large and liquid Very mobile collateral rich asset type is not yet on the blockchain."
  },
  {
    "start": 2185.85,
    "end": 2188.069,
    "text": "So to your question, why Ondo?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2188.93,
    "end": 2198.589,
    "text": "We would look to work with likes of Ondo but also Kraken and many others in the web three industry to tokenize the securities that we have."
  },
  {
    "start": 2198.85,
    "end": 2213.49,
    "text": "so the Siemens, Deutsche Banks, BASFs, Tusen Krups all those blue chip securities equities bonds funds, ETFs money market funds but also certificates and warrants for example."
  },
  {
    "start": 2213.87,
    "end": 2214.549,
    "text": "tokenize them."
  },
  {
    "start": 2214.609,
    "end": 2219.83,
    "text": "And make them available as the real thing if you like on chain and distribute them in."
  },
  {
    "start": 2219.89,
    "end": 2221.49,
    "text": "this goes back to their partnership."
  },
  {
    "start": 2221.65,
    "end": 2227.85,
    "text": "distribute these securities via the network that for example Ondel or also Kraken would have But many others are."
  },
  {
    "start": 2227.99,
    "end": 2229.15,
    "text": "so That's one way."
  },
  {
    "start": 2229.67,
    "end": 2243.73,
    "text": "The other ways of course say Of course we have to acknowledge that Securities equities perhaps in the future increasingly might be natively issued on the blockchain and possibly not with us, but other venues."
  },
  {
    "start": 2244.37,
    "end": 2252.43,
    "text": "Still our clients would love to have access to those securities because it's still a good security collateral value."
  },
  {
    "start": 2252.47,
    "end": 2258.81,
    "text": "is there something that they don't have access too if they are playing on chain?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2260.63,
    "end": 2264.549,
    "text": "We call it de-tokenizing or isonising, if that's a good word."
  },
  {
    "start": 2265.13,
    "end": 2266.589,
    "text": "Bring isonizing yet?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2267.089,
    "end": 2267.71,
    "text": "It's bit clunky."
  },
  {
    "start": 2267.83,
    "end": 2269.99,
    "text": "so let say de tokenizing."
  },
  {
    "start": 2270.47,
    "end": 2296.69,
    "text": "So we look to de-Tokenize those securities and bring them into the traditional world And then goes back this hybrid interoperable environment To bring natively issued Securities in to the Traditional World taking Traditional Securities and Tokenizing Them and Bringing Them on to the Blockchain so that the players who have a technological preference, have access to at least same or similar pool of securities they can invest into."
  },
  {
    "start": 2297.15,
    "end": 2305.33,
    "text": "And Ondo is one of those partners we want start with this and build it out in bidirectional manner."
  },
  {
    "start": 2306.529,
    "end": 2307.41,
    "text": "So its two-way street?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2309.009,
    "end": 2309.67,
    "text": "Very interesting!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2309.85,
    "end": 2316.589,
    "text": "It's all about distribution channels giving investors access they like."
  },
  {
    "start": 2318.81,
    "end": 2323.549,
    "text": "maybe more digital, maybe more traditional ways of interacting with these asset classes."
  },
  {
    "start": 2323.93,
    "end": 2324.77,
    "text": "Yeah very interesting."
  },
  {
    "start": 2325.049,
    "end": 2333.77,
    "text": "and perhaps one last analogy was not sure if that's the last one but what another analogy compared to the current industry?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2333.95,
    "end": 2342.069,
    "text": "If we think of aviation perhaps this might illustrate a little bit the partners here or the reasons for partnerships."
  },
  {
    "start": 2342.85,
    "end": 2351.45,
    "text": "We as an infrastructure I would say a terminal building runway sort of in industry, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2351.83,
    "end": 2353.13,
    "text": "We run an airport."
  },
  {
    "start": 2353.589,
    "end": 2355.45,
    "text": "Right we are not an airline!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2355.65,
    "end": 2382.37,
    "text": "We don't decide whether flight to Cannes should be expanded or one to Miami where it just came from is more appropriate and attract more clients in the future... ...we create the infrastructure.. ..we make sure that you can fly to Cannnes You Can Fly To Miami You Can Flight To Buenos Aires Whatever you prefer but Those parties that we've just mentioned are the ones providing flight traffic, connecting destinations."
  },
  {
    "start": 2382.43,
    "end": 2386.85,
    "text": "So they're producing products and services on the rails that we provide."
  },
  {
    "start": 2387.31,
    "end": 2391.23,
    "text": "those rails need to be traditional but then you also need to be blockchain real."
  },
  {
    "start": 2391.35,
    "end": 2395.37,
    "text": "So, You have runways for either type of plane if like right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2396.029,
    "end": 2401.109,
    "text": "But the planes and destinations all that is done by others we don't claim in their business."
  },
  {
    "start": 2401.47,
    "end": 2402.549,
    "text": "We are on infrastructure."
  },
  {
    "start": 2402.95,
    "end": 2405.71,
    "text": "long term infrastructure game costs a lot money."
  },
  {
    "start": 2405.97,
    "end": 2411.97,
    "text": "it takes little bit longer than perhaps developing specific use case or product service."
  },
  {
    "start": 2412.509,
    "end": 2413.91,
    "text": "The infrastructures important."
  },
  {
    "start": 2414.69,
    "end": 2416.17,
    "text": "our infrastructure needs hybrid"
  },
  {
    "start": 2417.31,
    "end": 2422.609,
    "text": "Which leads us to TTCC, because I think you just mentioned the two-way street of Deutsche Börse."
  },
  {
    "start": 2422.75,
    "end": 2433.549,
    "text": "I think DTCC announced quite a similar move or significant one with their new tokenization initiative together more than fifty major financial institutions."
  },
  {
    "start": 2435.73,
    "end": 2443.31,
    "text": "A few months after the SEC granted them no action letter they now moved forward adding an extreme speed from my perspective."
  },
  {
    "start": 2443.41,
    "end": 2454.13,
    "text": "I don't know how you see these announcements, but for me it seems rather quick that they want to go live with something in a pilot phase in July and broader even in October."
  },
  {
    "start": 2454.45,
    "end": 2465.509,
    "text": "They also say okay we bring all the traditional securities We can tokenize them on our platform And you can redeem them back From The Chain To The Traditional Format Later On."
  },
  {
    "start": 2465.93,
    "end": 2475.509,
    "text": "So i See A Lot Of Similarities of What DTCC seems to announce and seems to perform in the US like your strategy or do you see it similarly?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2475.65,
    "end": 2477.41,
    "text": "Or is where there's a difference."
  },
  {
    "start": 2477.81,
    "end": 2481.23,
    "text": "No, no I wouldn't really entirely agree."
  },
  {
    "start": 2481.35,
    "end": 2487.63,
    "text": "so the direction of travel is very clear DTCC as in your case because you refer them other infrastructures."
  },
  {
    "start": 2487.75,
    "end": 2505.089,
    "text": "well but through point here DTC has clearly understood also that they need branch into and develop themselves in to a digital infrastructure, be able to offer digital services or at least the rails that I've mentioned earlier."
  },
  {
    "start": 2505.45,
    "end": 2526.089,
    "text": "So tokenizing more than one hundred trillion of assets they have is big step forward for bringing liquidity on security onto blockchain which will spark adoption quite significantly adoption of blockchain technology and the use of securities on-chain."
  },
  {
    "start": 2526.91,
    "end": 2537.75,
    "text": "The strategies, to your point very similar hours is only in a sense different that it extends beyond the post rate element that DTCC represents right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2538.29,
    "end": 2556.47,
    "text": "We need integrate solutions from trading clearing settlement into one because Otherwise, the weakest link will always be the one that not dominates but basically defines how good and how much your product gets adopted."
  },
  {
    "start": 2557.049,
    "end": 2558.73,
    "text": "So that would be the difference."
  },
  {
    "start": 2558.87,
    "end": 2560.45,
    "text": "Otherwise, it is very similar."
  },
  {
    "start": 2560.83,
    "end": 2562.609,
    "text": "they have slightly larger volumes."
  },
  {
    "start": 2562.65,
    "end": 2564.25,
    "text": "we're talking about a hundred trillion what?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2564.41,
    "end": 2566.71,
    "text": "We have twenty two trillion but there are U.S."
  },
  {
    "start": 2566.99,
    "end": 2567.45,
    "text": "equities."
  },
  {
    "start": 2567.75,
    "end": 2576.43,
    "text": "we have European equities namely German But also other European blue chip Equities that were we will have in our portfolio then."
  },
  {
    "start": 2576.63,
    "end": 2582.77,
    "text": "so from perspective to to conclude or summarize direction of travel, very clear."
  },
  {
    "start": 2584.25,
    "end": 2604.17,
    "text": "Very similar moving at similar speeds but clearly also understanding and I need to emphasize that point being cautious how we build this out because we built infrastructure for decades And it has to be super solid Super reliable Super scalable Super trustworthy."
  },
  {
    "start": 2605.35,
    "end": 2612.19,
    "text": "so the market will continue to trust and rely on us for servicing securities, of course."
  },
  {
    "start": 2612.43,
    "end": 2614.549,
    "text": "Either here or there so traditional or tokenized."
  },
  {
    "start": 2614.89,
    "end": 2619.39,
    "text": "One other news from this week was the news from bullish taking over equinity."
  },
  {
    "start": 2620.049,
    "end": 2622.109,
    "text": "And actually you pointed me out."
  },
  {
    "start": 2623.19,
    "end": 2629.99,
    "text": "So for the listeners, bullish acquired equinity for four point two billion dollars beginning of the week."
  },
  {
    "start": 2630.63,
    "end": 2632.35,
    "text": "And Tilo take us through that."
  },
  {
    "start": 2632.47,
    "end": 2633.67,
    "text": "what does actually mean?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2633.73,
    "end": 2636.99,
    "text": "Because bullish is more on the new side or the crypto-side."
  },
  {
    "start": 2637.549,
    "end": 2645.17,
    "text": "they now buy into equity which is a global transfer agent, so they service around three thousand public companies as issuers."
  },
  {
    "start": 2645.23,
    "end": 2659.41,
    "text": "They have fifteen thousand corporate clients more than twenty million shareholders are serviced by them and they process five hundred billion in annual payments... ...which is small number compared to the one hundred trillion we just talked about but still sizable obviously!"
  },
  {
    "start": 2659.77,
    "end": 2661.39,
    "text": "What does that tell us?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2661.65,
    "end": 2665.549,
    "text": "That new players the more traditional ones."
  },
  {
    "start": 2665.89,
    "end": 2669.19,
    "text": "Yeah, yeah and Stefan I think that is the point right."
  },
  {
    "start": 2669.25,
    "end": 2684.77,
    "text": "so i won't specifically comment on bullish inequality because it's not my place to...I can interpret but its'nt really a place for me to comment about investment strategy of four-point two billion euros or dollars worth into a traditional player."
  },
  {
    "start": 2685.15,
    "end": 2689.45,
    "text": "But I think you make the pertinent one."
  },
  {
    "start": 2689.609,
    "end": 2695.87,
    "text": "in From a size perspective, as far I'm aware it's the first time."
  },
  {
    "start": 2698.17,
    "end": 2703.21,
    "text": "One of the first times at least where a web three player invests that amount."
  },
  {
    "start": 2704.549,
    "end": 2715.89,
    "text": "money has always been invested but these sizable amounts for four or five billion dollars worth investments into traditional financial market industry players."
  },
  {
    "start": 2716.13,
    "end": 2721.33,
    "text": "So that's, I think the most for me was the most remarkable sort of message."
  },
  {
    "start": 2721.79,
    "end": 2732.37,
    "text": "That we see evermore web three players looking to acquire and also as i called it having a foot in the door Of The Traditional World."
  },
  {
    "start": 2732.65,
    "end": 2741.29,
    "text": "so As We Look To Partner And Invest Into Web Three Players Because Of The Relationship They Were Looking To Establish In A Know-How That We're Looking To Gain."
  },
  {
    "start": 2742.009,
    "end": 2748.529,
    "text": "You Have other direction happening as well because these web three players are fantastic organization."
  },
  {
    "start": 2748.589,
    "end": 2752.99,
    "text": "They're super modern, super agile have fantastic creative new ideas."
  },
  {
    "start": 2753.75,
    "end": 2756.23,
    "text": "but the legacy player sit on the volumes right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2756.549,
    "end": 2757.77,
    "text": "We sit on assets."
  },
  {
    "start": 2758.41,
    "end": 2762.79,
    "text": "someone like equinity sits on volumes of transfer agent information."
  },
  {
    "start": 2762.87,
    "end": 2764.17,
    "text": "so corporate event information."
  },
  {
    "start": 2764.27,
    "end": 2769.089,
    "text": "for you said three thousand yeah or three thousand sort of issuers."
  },
  {
    "start": 2769.45,
    "end": 2770.81,
    "text": "That's a very, very large number."
  },
  {
    "start": 2770.89,
    "end": 2777.069,
    "text": "And I think many of those three thousand are Russell one-thousand components S&P five hundred component."
  },
  {
    "start": 2777.15,
    "end": 2782.529,
    "text": "so you're basically with this move bullish in this case."
  },
  {
    "start": 2782.609,
    "end": 2789.23,
    "text": "but the web three players is starting to consume and incorporate volumes that exist in traditional world."
  },
  {
    "start": 2790.609,
    "end": 2793.17,
    "text": "over time we'll look at bringing them on chain as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 2793.21,
    "end": 2796.75,
    "text": "looking our services on chain they will drag it through."
  },
  {
    "start": 2796.79,
    "end": 2798.19,
    "text": "these do this investment."
  },
  {
    "start": 2798.25,
    "end": 2800.17,
    "text": "So two aspects again to summarize."
  },
  {
    "start": 2800.31,
    "end": 2814.47,
    "text": "one is web three, it's putting a lot of money to access traditional financial market activity and volumes To learn from those who consume and integrate them into the proposition And modernize them so i.e."
  },
  {
    "start": 2814.609,
    "end": 2817.35,
    "text": "digitized or bring them on chain."
  },
  {
    "start": 2819.71,
    "end": 2821.19,
    "text": "That that's the main aspect."
  },
  {
    "start": 2822.47,
    "end": 2825.27,
    "text": "The second one I think generally valid."
  },
  {
    "start": 2825.93,
    "end": 2839.089,
    "text": "there's an acknowledgement that the Web three players just through sheer existence, I'm overgeneralizing but true sheer existence will not eat my breakfast nor my lunch or dinner if i move forward."
  },
  {
    "start": 2839.609,
    "end": 2850.77,
    "text": "But they realize working with traditional players actually is possibly a dominant strategy and more helpful because of volumes we can contribute to their client base."
  },
  {
    "start": 2851.83,
    "end": 2851.83,
    "text": "I"
  },
  {
    "start": 2852.25,
    "end": 2854.33,
    "text": "think we say that for years, but it's the convergence"
  },
  {
    "start": 2854.609,
    "end": 2854.85,
    "text": "between"
  },
  {
    "start": 2855.509,
    "end": 2856.95,
    "text": "DeFi and DratFy if you want."
  },
  {
    "start": 2857.109,
    "end": 2857.31,
    "text": "It is"
  },
  {
    "start": 2857.45,
    "end": 2859.63,
    "text": "really happening now then this is best evidence."
  },
  {
    "start": 2859.75,
    "end": 2862.87,
    "text": "four point two billion dollars should be evidenced enough yes?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2863.109,
    "end": 2871.549,
    "text": "It's funny because two years ago i did this market study about how DeFi might converge."
  },
  {
    "start": 2871.589,
    "end": 2881.19,
    "text": "in some of my interview partners they thought This was completely clear."
  },
  {
    "start": 2881.75,
    "end": 2886.31,
    "text": "Actually two and a half years ago it wasn't clear, many of the traditional players still had some doubts."
  },
  {
    "start": 2886.81,
    "end": 2892.109,
    "text": "maybe not you guys because your already moved at that time but Time is telling different story by now."
  },
  {
    "start": 2892.33,
    "end": 2892.89,
    "text": "It's interesting."
  },
  {
    "start": 2893.21,
    "end": 2902.509,
    "text": "I mean fifteen years ago GLT were said to indeed just eat financial market players again for breakfast."
  },
  {
    "start": 2905.009,
    "end": 2910.009,
    "text": "And I think that blockchain technology is a good technology and it's here to stay."
  },
  {
    "start": 2911.23,
    "end": 2916.31,
    "text": "The institutional, traditional players have caught up... ...and partnerships are needed both ways."
  },
  {
    "start": 2917.089,
    "end": 2919.069,
    "text": "That acknowledgement certainly has taken place."
  },
  {
    "start": 2919.509,
    "end": 2922.93,
    "text": "And the evidence clearly there that the adoption was there too."
  },
  {
    "start": 2923.35,
    "end": 2932.21,
    "text": "Everything up to twenty-twenty five was really very tough you know as we would say in German, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2932.75,
    "end": 2934.95,
    "text": "Marathon years but this year is a sprint here."
  },
  {
    "start": 2935.17,
    "end": 2943.43,
    "text": "A lot of make-and-break decisions will be made this year and infrastructures will be built for the future resulting... The foundations were rebuilt to see."
  },
  {
    "start": 2943.549,
    "end": 2943.77,
    "text": "I think"
  },
  {
    "start": 2944.19,
    "end": 2945.31,
    "text": "there's time running."
  },
  {
    "start": 2945.37,
    "end": 2947.31,
    "text": "But that one topic i don't want to miss."
  },
  {
    "start": 2947.509,
    "end": 2960.83,
    "text": "And you propose talk about collateral mobility because That's One of the promises Of that whole tokenization thing tokens more, faster than in the past."
  },
  {
    "start": 2961.87,
    "end": 2966.71,
    "text": "And collateral is extremely important especially in institutional play."
  },
  {
    "start": 2966.79,
    "end": 2969.91,
    "text": "when we talk to investment bankers it's all about repos."
  },
  {
    "start": 2969.97,
    "end": 2971.009,
    "text": "how do make them better?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2971.109,
    "end": 2978.27,
    "text": "How to reuse your capital with these new possibilities of for example blockchain technology?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2979.13,
    "end": 2980.049,
    "text": "what you view on this?"
  },
  {
    "start": 2980.109,
    "end": 2986.63,
    "text": "so What's client demand can take us one or two use cases that clients want to realize."
  },
  {
    "start": 2987.569,
    "end": 2989.43,
    "text": "So I'll start again in the traditional world."
  },
  {
    "start": 2989.509,
    "end": 2992.549,
    "text": "for those who are not so familiar with it, that tradition."
  },
  {
    "start": 2993.81,
    "end": 3013.569,
    "text": "In aggregate industry there will be well north of a trillion euros dollars worth of collateral value That is being used every day to cover exposures trading exposures clearing exposures bilateral exposures and one trillions probably going."
  },
  {
    "start": 3014.37,
    "end": 3024.99,
    "text": "But that's the sort of size we're talking about, not only securities in general but the collateral value of those assets are actually being applied."
  },
  {
    "start": 3025.89,
    "end": 3030.93,
    "text": "They fit into a traditional world and it is fine because currently where the exposures reside as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 3031.63,
    "end": 3051.41,
    "text": "Now increasingly you see on-chain trading venues distribution venues prime brokerage services popping up very legitimate ones starting to attract more and more investors, and these investors trading more and creating more exposures."
  },
  {
    "start": 3052.049,
    "end": 3062.45,
    "text": "Now on-chain because of the lack of securities in that environment will be using cash, crypto or stablecoins."
  },
  {
    "start": 3063.15,
    "end": 3065.029,
    "text": "More less those would be categories."
  },
  {
    "start": 3065.509,
    "end": 3070.029,
    "text": "use those sorts of assets to cover the exposes they are creating on chain."
  },
  {
    "start": 3070.75,
    "end": 3071.45,
    "text": "That's nice."
  },
  {
    "start": 3071.91,
    "end": 3078.27,
    "text": "And for the volumes that currently are being traded, and so the exposures that have been created."
  },
  {
    "start": 3078.31,
    "end": 3079.77,
    "text": "That's okay right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3080.089,
    "end": 3082.43,
    "text": "But cash is quite an expensive piece of collateral."
  },
  {
    "start": 3082.549,
    "end": 3090.609,
    "text": "For example crypto Is a relatively volatile one and stablecoins are perhaps not yet as available As one would want or need."
  },
  {
    "start": 3091.25,
    "end": 3100.609,
    "text": "So what we increasingly see is that Not only exposure venues on chain but investors on those exposure venues."
  },
  {
    "start": 3100.65,
    "end": 3115.45,
    "text": "So again, exchanges and other distribution menus on chain are looking to access their traditional collateral pools to cover those exposures ,to deliver that collateral through the exposure venue so they can trade more because they want do more ."
  },
  {
    "start": 3115.97,
    "end": 3118.109,
    "text": "And this I think is an important step forward."
  },
  {
    "start": 3119.31,
    "end": 3123.19,
    "text": "at first we as industry said ah tokenization, great."
  },
  {
    "start": 3123.33,
    "end": 3127.31,
    "text": "Once we can tokenize all of the infrastructures will go away into medias."
  },
  {
    "start": 3127.47,
    "end": 3128.35,
    "text": "won't it be necessary?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3128.47,
    "end": 3130.33,
    "text": "All that not correct?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3130.81,
    "end": 3132.41,
    "text": "as we know The evidence is clear."
  },
  {
    "start": 3133.049,
    "end": 3139.29,
    "text": "then We carried on and say ah but It's because we can do DVP on chain That the adoption isn't there."
  },
  {
    "start": 3140.13,
    "end": 3143.27,
    "text": "Well now we have stable coins with cryptocurrencies."
  },
  {
    "start": 3143.35,
    "end": 3148.37,
    "text": "We have a wholesale CBDC in Europe Coming up in September October this year."
  },
  {
    "start": 3148.93,
    "end": 3150.21,
    "text": "So that will be solved as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 3150.37,
    "end": 3159.13,
    "text": "And still the adoption won't be quick and voluminous, I believe this is something we've said probably a year or two ago already."
  },
  {
    "start": 3159.529,
    "end": 3161.41,
    "text": "We referred to the dead wood."
  },
  {
    "start": 3161.99,
    "end": 3165.029,
    "text": "people invest into tokenized security or tokenize asset."
  },
  {
    "start": 3165.089,
    "end": 3169.569,
    "text": "they hold it for till maturity or redemption but can actually mobilize."
  },
  {
    "start": 3169.73,
    "end": 3182.33,
    "text": "so you invest in some bit of a deadwood because That is changing once you have collateral management services that cover exposures on chain and of course, Once we have more tokenized assets on the blockchain."
  },
  {
    "start": 3182.77,
    "end": 3189.029,
    "text": "But The important piece that We want to help with Is to say Dear exposure location!"
  },
  {
    "start": 3189.77,
    "end": 3193.99,
    "text": "We will look To bring more and more Securities onto the Blockchain by tokenizing them?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3194.33,
    "end": 3195.71,
    "text": "That's gonna take a little bit Of time."
  },
  {
    "start": 3195.91,
    "end": 3199.65,
    "text": "until then why don't You in this again this two-way street?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3199.73,
    "end": 3201.45,
    "text": "Why don't you come into the tradition world?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3202.15,
    "end": 3203.29,
    "text": "Open an account with us."
  },
  {
    "start": 3203.91,
    "end": 3216.73,
    "text": "Your client is our client will allow that client to post collateral pledge collateral to you in the traditional world That you will reflect on your venue and then this client, This common client who'll be able to use it."
  },
  {
    "start": 3217.009,
    "end": 3217.29,
    "text": "So let's."
  },
  {
    "start": 3217.609,
    "end": 3219.97,
    "text": "that's a big piece that we're working on."
  },
  {
    "start": 3220.109,
    "end": 3223.23,
    "text": "And honestly when you talk institutional players?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3223.31,
    "end": 3228.109,
    "text": "That's what excites them most because most institutional players are not buy-and-hold clients."
  },
  {
    "start": 3228.49,
    "end": 3235.13,
    "text": "they will look to reuse the asset, mobilize the asset and you can only do that if you have a reused possibility."
  },
  {
    "start": 3235.63,
    "end": 3238.41,
    "text": "Collateral management would be one of those key enablers I"
  },
  {
    "start": 3239.25,
    "end": 3239.37,
    "text": "think."
  },
  {
    "start": 3239.43,
    "end": 3246.009,
    "text": "That's very similar with some new exchanges which talk about off-exchange collateral."
  },
  {
    "start": 3246.41,
    "end": 3249.089,
    "text": "so we actually also have security features."
  },
  {
    "start": 3249.13,
    "end": 3258.43,
    "text": "even though the exchange has a security breach your collateral is not endangered because it's somewhat guaranteed In a dedicated vault or in your old deposit?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3259.17,
    "end": 3259.83,
    "text": "Generally, sorry."
  },
  {
    "start": 3260.27,
    "end": 3266.37,
    "text": "I know you said time is running but generally there's so many fashionable words that are being used on chain and the end."
  },
  {
    "start": 3266.509,
    "end": 3272.65,
    "text": "we're always talking about the same stuff at least when we were amongst professionals of the financial markets right."
  },
  {
    "start": 3272.97,
    "end": 3284.73,
    "text": "call it lending called it staking call it evolved call it collateral basket all these fancy words just the same thing as modern sort labeling."
  },
  {
    "start": 3285.41,
    "end": 3287.73,
    "text": "But that's the reason why this podcast exists."
  },
  {
    "start": 3287.79,
    "end": 3288.87,
    "text": "We need to translate it."
  },
  {
    "start": 3289.009,
    "end": 3289.17,
    "text": "Yeah,"
  },
  {
    "start": 3290.33,
    "end": 3291.17,
    "text": "let's rock and roll!"
  },
  {
    "start": 3291.25,
    "end": 3291.91,
    "text": "I think rock-and-roll."
  },
  {
    "start": 3291.97,
    "end": 3294.009,
    "text": "everyone understands..."
  },
  {
    "start": 3294.069,
    "end": 3297.529,
    "text": "Exactly so Tilo It has been a nice ride."
  },
  {
    "start": 3297.569,
    "end": 3299.589,
    "text": "Let us go into closing."
  },
  {
    "start": 3299.69,
    "end": 3304.93,
    "text": "Maybe for you, Deutsche Börse of Gliastream Looking some years ahead two or three year."
  },
  {
    "start": 3305.089,
    "end": 3306.41,
    "text": "So what is on the plate?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3307.089,
    "end": 3311.87,
    "text": "What are most exciting moves That your gonna look in going forward?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3313.47,
    "end": 3323.43,
    "text": "to get done, and that we need to get right is digitization of our own infrastructure for all the uses and purposes I've described earlier."
  },
  {
    "start": 3323.83,
    "end": 3325.95,
    "text": "And integrating them along with value chain."
  },
  {
    "start": 3326.95,
    "end": 3340.45,
    "text": "because if we're not twenty-four seven... If you don't offer fractionalisation or instant processing in settlement assuming it's going to be normal then state of the art."
  },
  {
    "start": 3340.589,
    "end": 3352.39,
    "text": "So that needs to happen and it needs to be integrated along the value chain because we offer trading clearing settlement in custody, so that's an important step forward!"
  },
  {
    "start": 3352.77,
    "end": 3354.23,
    "text": "That is what we need to work on."
  },
  {
    "start": 3354.69,
    "end": 3361.069,
    "text": "as a tarmac at an airport isn't built into days... It needs to build quickly but will take some time."
  },
  {
    "start": 3361.27,
    "end": 3376.609,
    "text": "when you ask me about year two or three in future ...that where going put most our effort accessing assets tokenizing the assets, digitizing the infrastructure and integrating that solution along the value chain of an exchange organization."
  },
  {
    "start": 3377.509,
    "end": 3380.029,
    "text": "Will we have completed it in three years time?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3380.13,
    "end": 3380.19,
    "text": "No!"
  },
  {
    "start": 3380.63,
    "end": 3387.71,
    "text": "Even our traditional infrastructure continues to consume millions of euros of build every year because there's always something new coming up."
  },
  {
    "start": 3388.21,
    "end": 3401.17,
    "text": "but assume that we will continue to focus on securities expand the asset scope that value chain and continue to offer hybrid environment for the next decade or so."
  },
  {
    "start": 3401.27,
    "end": 3411.81,
    "text": "I would think, at least as long we're going to have to maintain it until we can start shutting down legacy infrastructure and manage on-chain infrastructure only."
  },
  {
    "start": 3413.17,
    "end": 3415.35,
    "text": "Everything else will need to see the news."
  },
  {
    "start": 3416.23,
    "end": 3416.95,
    "text": "watch the space."
  },
  {
    "start": 3417.73,
    "end": 3420.87,
    "text": "there's new coming but those are big ticket items."
  },
  {
    "start": 3422.109,
    "end": 3422.609,
    "text": "Thank you, Tilo."
  },
  {
    "start": 3422.73,
    "end": 3429.569,
    "text": "I think that was a quite comprehensive overview of everything on your mind and on Deutsche Börse's mind."
  },
  {
    "start": 3430.47,
    "end": 3431.93,
    "text": "so thanks for the openness!"
  },
  {
    "start": 3434.19,
    "end": 3434.65,
    "text": "Any questions?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3437.29,
    "end": 3439.529,
    "text": "Did we leave any open space?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3440.77,
    "end": 3442.089,
    "text": "No... We covered those things."
  },
  {
    "start": 3445.35,
    "end": 3450.089,
    "text": "The world has to be hybrid by direction or across ecosystems."
  },
  {
    "start": 3450.67,
    "end": 3455.029,
    "text": "Blockchain technology is here to stay, but generally digitalization."
  },
  {
    "start": 3455.509,
    "end": 3465.13,
    "text": "Is delivering the benefits that it promised and we need to reap them for ourselves as organizations all of us But also for the clients that we have."
  },
  {
    "start": 3465.31,
    "end": 3474.87,
    "text": "And honestly if you look back in probably twelve or eighteen months time And we see the volume and velocity of assets that are moving on chain."
  },
  {
    "start": 3475.069,
    "end": 3487.529,
    "text": "We haven't even touched, let's not because otherwise... ...we need another half hour on AI agents that invest in your behalf or my behalf.. ..and just talk to each other while we chat about something else?"
  },
  {
    "start": 3487.81,
    "end": 3489.33,
    "text": "That is going be an exciting future!"
  },
  {
    "start": 3489.39,
    "end": 3498.65,
    "text": "So I think when looking back at life command,... ...looking back at electrification.... The volume increase that we saw in trading securities was astonishing."
  },
  {
    "start": 3499.23,
    "end": 3510.19,
    "text": "And I think we will see yet again such a similar cycle with factors of X or volumes exploding because of longer trading activities."
  },
  {
    "start": 3510.27,
    "end": 3517.23,
    "text": "So, twenty-four seven fractionalization access to different asset types and probably AI agents that support all of them."
  },
  {
    "start": 3517.33,
    "end": 3519.27,
    "text": "so they're something for another podcast."
  },
  {
    "start": 3519.31,
    "end": 3520.81,
    "text": "then you might want ask someone else."
  },
  {
    "start": 3520.85,
    "end": 3523.81,
    "text": "That's more prevailed in the topic of AI agents than me."
  },
  {
    "start": 3524.41,
    "end": 3528.15,
    "text": "it's regular topic We also cover but very nice ending."
  },
  {
    "start": 3528.71,
    "end": 3529.83,
    "text": "Thank you Tito for your time."
  },
  {
    "start": 3530.23,
    "end": 3533.93,
    "text": "I know it was very hard to find that spot in your schedule, but we made it!"
  },
  {
    "start": 3534.049,
    "end": 3534.43,
    "text": "We made"
  },
  {
    "start": 3534.509,
    "end": 3534.549,
    "text": "it!!"
  },
  {
    "start": 3534.99,
    "end": 3536.71,
    "text": "Now i can have my not-not my nap."
  },
  {
    "start": 3536.81,
    "end": 3542.39,
    "text": "no so i have to go back to work... But i'd love to have a little nap right now because i do feel the jet lag a bit."
  },
  {
    "start": 3542.549,
    "end": 3543.17,
    "text": "Thanks for your times."
  },
  {
    "start": 3543.21,
    "end": 3546.19,
    "text": "thanks for having me Stefan and look forward to speaking here sometime soon."
  },
  {
    "start": 3546.609,
    "end": 3547.73,
    "text": "thank you it's been fun."
  },
  {
    "start": 3548.15,
    "end": 3548.33,
    "text": "Cheers."
  },
  {
    "start": 3548.93,
    "end": 3552.65,
    "text": "The views expressed are solely the personal opinions of the hosts."
  },
  {
    "start": 3556.13,
    "end": 3559.47,
    "text": "This podcast does not offer financial or investment advice."
  },
  {
    "start": 3560.089,
    "end": 3570.85,
    "text": "Always conduct your own research and make well-informed decisions before investing, please be aware that the hosts and guests may hold cryptocurrencies."
  }
]