[ { "start": 0.06, "end": 3.54, "text": "What if you've been believing a lie about children without ever knowing you believed it?" }, { "start": 4.38, "end": 6.74, "text": "That's the realization my guest had in college." }, { "start": 7.26, "end": 11.22, "text": "And what she shares about is one of the most convicting and freeing things I have heard at long time." }, { "start": 12.06, "end": 18.54, "text": "today, I get the pleasure to talk with Emma Waters A wife and mom expecting her third daughter who wrote lead like Jail." }, { "start": 19.24, "end": 24.02, "text": "We talked about why tradwife movement and girl boss feminism are more alike than they seem." }, { "start": 24.62, "end": 32.18, "text": "What a three thousand year old tent peg reveals about your role in marriage and how to stop treating home like waiting room for real life." }, { "start": 33.08, "end": 36.58, "text": "As always, hit that Like button so you never miss an episode!" }, { "start": 37.18, "end": 41.3, "text": "Now please enjoy my encouraging conversation with Emma Waters." }, { "start": 42.66, "end": 49.8, "text": "As always, I tell my audience." }, { "start": 49.88, "end": 68.16, "text": "I love getting to meet new people get to meet people and doing different things on different parts of the world Different parts of country all for the kingdom of God but in so many different ways And how that applies to our marriages and our homes and hopefully do inspire to encourage or remind People of the truth and point people back Jesus from The Bible." }, { "start": 69.18, "end": 76.02, "text": "So before we get into deep into the book that I want talk about who you are." }, { "start": 76.42, "end": 77.8, "text": "I actually, i'd love to dig in first!" }, { "start": 78.16, "end": 78.84, "text": "Who are YOU?" }, { "start": 79.76, "end": 84.0, "text": "Tell my audience who you're what you do background marriage children all the good stuff." }, { "start": 84.78, "end": 92.8, "text": "Yes absolutely so...I have been married for four and a half years coming on five years at the beginning of twenty-twenty seven." }, { "start": 93.48, "end": 96.44, "text": "We have two little girls now, one is three." }, { "start": 96.64, "end": 101.32, "text": "One is eighteen months and we're actually expecting our third little girl at the end of August this year." }, { "start": 101.4, "end": 102.12, "text": "Congratulations!" }, { "start": 102.18, "end": 102.4, "text": "Thank" }, { "start": 102.48, "end": 102.54, "text": "you." }, { "start": 102.7, "end": 115.02, "text": "so it's a very happy time but I am married to Jack Waters who was actually in seminary In The Anglican Church Of North America And So he's pursuing his ordination To become A full-time pastor." }, { "start": 116.54, "end": 127.64, "text": "Outside of that, do lots of writing both in the policy world but also in The Christian Evangelical World with First Things and World Magazine on issues related to the family femininity." }, { "start": 128.0, "end": 139.66, "text": "And crucially the questions of fertility and really what it means To be human given the technological developments That we're experiencing today from digital technology to reproductive Technology." }, { "start": 141.28, "end": 144.64, "text": "so four years married About to have your third child." }, { "start": 144.68, "end": 147.22, "text": "Did you say you were married in January at the beginning of yes?" }, { "start": 147.6, "end": 155.52, "text": "Yes, so we are our university's January as well But work coming up on twenty years and January which blows my mind every time I think about a mic." }, { "start": 155.56, "end": 158.92, "text": "Oh my gosh Where did twenty years go but it goes by fast." }, { "start": 158.96, "end": 163.5, "text": "does he realize four years probably blew by fast with you guys Especially having children so quick." }, { "start": 164.64, "end": 165.04, "text": "I love that." }, { "start": 165.76, "end": 167.24, "text": "What do what's your main job?" }, { "start": 168.12, "end": 172.48, "text": "So I am a policy analyst for the Heritage Foundation, which is a policy think tank in DC." }, { "start": 172.8, "end": 177.56, "text": "But I do it remotely as I'm actually based in Pittsburgh where my husband attends seminary." }, { "start": 179.94, "end": 182.42, "text": "It's amazing that we can do remote work pretty much anywhere on the world." }, { "start": 182.46, "end": 186.2, "text": "now How did you get into policy writing." }, { "start": 187.06, "end": 188.12, "text": "What was your background on that?" }, { "start": 188.64, "end": 190.8, "text": "It doesn't seem like in high school." }, { "start": 190.84, "end": 191.62, "text": "you're, I'm going to do this." }, { "start": 191.74, "end": 192.9, "text": "This is the direction where we want it" }, { "start": 192.94, "end": 192.96, "text": "go.\"." }, { "start": 193.0, "end": 193.06, "text": "No!" }, { "start": 193.54, "end": 196.52, "text": "It was far more organic and spirit-led than that." }, { "start": 196.68, "end": 210.4, "text": "so In college i was a double major in theology and biblical studies And so I studied Biblical Hebrew Was very passionate about learning More About The Word of God which Is A Lot Of Where My First Book Lead Like JL Was Birthed From." }, { "start": 210.92, "end": 217.8, "text": "But Then I Was Also A Double Major In Political Science where I focused on marriage and family structure studies in the public policy realm." }, { "start": 218.42, "end": 221.24, "text": "And the way that I got into this space, it's really interesting." }, { "start": 221.4, "end": 223.06, "text": "I was not very political growing up." }, { "start": 223.18, "end": 224.94, "text": "I grew up in a very conservative household." }, { "start": 225.02, "end": 230.3, "text": "It was always very conservative but didn't really care about the day-to-day political happenings." }, { "start": 230.42, "end": 233.08, "text": "I Was very involved in missions my local church ministry." }, { "start": 233.66, "end": 256.2, "text": "But I had this realization part of the way through college That we have been given this incredible political system of factions fighting against factions where not only do we have what the Word of God says to be true about what it means to flourish as human beings, but we also have years upon years of social science research that effectively backs that up when it comes to children flourishing and families with a mother and father." }, { "start": 256.32, "end": 258.7, "text": "The importance of protecting life in all these issues." }, { "start": 259.3, "end": 265.92, "text": "And I realized there is this really cool moment where we could actually advocate for those values within the political sphere." }, { "start": 266.24, "end": 275.2, "text": "That was not something that was at odds with our Christian faith, but it was one of the ways in which we expressed faithfulness to God's word by promoting these things into public square and policy." }, { "start": 276.04, "end": 282.64, "text": "So i started doing a few internships researching in this area... The frank answer is just that I fell in love with it!" }, { "start": 282.74, "end": 293.02, "text": "It was a total nerd about it like everything on my topic.... My now husband then boyfriend and fiancee during that time was really encouraging." }, { "start": 293.08, "end": 295.12, "text": "And he was like, well you know Emma it's the middle of COVID." }, { "start": 295.6, "end": 297.76, "text": "a lot of internships are canceled, they're put online." }, { "start": 298.08, "end": 302.46, "text": "He's like you should just reach out to some of these scholars that you've been reading see if they have time to talk to you." }, { "start": 302.98, "end": 312.68, "text": "and so I started cold emailing everyone who had been reading from afar and lo and behold it turns out also did not have very much going on during COVID!" }, { "start": 313.26, "end": 323.2, "text": "So i had really high response rate was able set up meetings which turned into internships in jobs working with the school either social scientists or policy thinkers." }, { "start": 324.66, "end": 338.22, "text": "One thing led to another and I pitched this DC organization, which is one of the largest conservative organizations doing federal and state policy on building out a policy platform addressing infertility." }, { "start": 338.4, "end": 349.24, "text": "Which has been on the rise in United States In A Life Affirming Way and also looking into how we as Christians should think about reproductive technology, like IVF in surrogacy." }, { "start": 349.88, "end": 356.82, "text": "And it's part of that portfolio always thinking about the bigger picture questions of The family of the goodness of motherhood?" }, { "start": 357.2, "end": 362.22, "text": "Of How do you promote femininity not necessarily through policy but your life and through your culture?" }, { "start": 363.0, "end": 365.94, "text": "So yeah all those things have just sort of come together." }, { "start": 366.12, "end": 369.76, "text": "really interesting ways for the job I now But its been a lot fun." }, { "start": 369.86, "end": 370.46, "text": "needless to say" }, { "start": 371.38, "end": 372.16, "text": "It sounds like you love it." }, { "start": 372.96, "end": 382.0, "text": "You mentioned something that I thought was pretty ironic, not necessarily ironic but... ...you said you were raised in a conservative home so now very political." }, { "start": 382.54, "end": 389.68, "text": "and what's really funny is i feel like thats one of the reasons we've kind have gotten to this place where we are in our country where conservatives aren't usually very political." }, { "start": 390.52, "end": 396.52, "text": "And on one hand I get that Im just actually don't want politics involved with my life." }, { "start": 396.94, "end": 403.28, "text": "I think thats why a lot you know, hands-off has been in the last so many years." }, { "start": 404.52, "end": 415.2, "text": "But what's funny is that Christians and conservatives—the founding of America —and all these things like we were at one point very political understanding." }, { "start": 415.6, "end": 419.26, "text": "how do we live our lives if they have those rules over us?" }, { "start": 419.36, "end": 430.18, "text": "And then it was some time ago when I asked myself why do you think conservatism made us want to avoid politics." }, { "start": 431.3, "end": 439.92, "text": "And now, I mean there's a swing back into it of like oh we've been out putting our conservative values on the ballot." }, { "start": 440.56, "end": 441.06, "text": "Yeah, okay." }, { "start": 441.16, "end": 443.42, "text": "so there's I'm sure a much bigger complete answer." }, { "start": 443.5, "end": 450.1, "text": "but the thing that i always think of with this question and I think it's spot-on is going back to the nineteen nineties." }, { "start": 450.26, "end": 457.96, "text": "early two thousands you had both the rise of the moral majority within the republican broadly conservative world." }, { "start": 458.44, "end": 462.6, "text": "But It didn't actually do very well And The language was not Very human." }, { "start": 462.72, "end": 472.36, "text": "So it talked about A quote contract With America in a way that maybe spoke to certain leaders, but didn't seem to really capture the heart and soul and spirit of America." }, { "start": 472.6, "end": 479.28, "text": "And certainly some of its leader seemed to struggle on the front of morality themselves which I think undermined the movement for a number of years." }, { "start": 479.88, "end": 497.0, "text": "At this same time that was in place you had a big push especially from a secular non-religious audience uh morally neutral public square which is to say that we come to conversations of policy and politics, the public life." }, { "start": 497.48, "end": 498.74, "text": "And we're morally neutral." }, { "start": 498.8, "end": 506.46, "text": "We're not bringing our faith or a religious dogma to the table but were just people thinking about the issues with Just The Science & The Facts." }, { "start": 507.14, "end": 510.8, "text": "Of course That Is A Massive Myth Like There's A Total Myth About The" }, { "start": 510.84, "end": 511.0, "text": "World." }, { "start": 511.88, "end": 513.039, "text": "Change The Science And The Fax" }, { "start": 513.48, "end": 513.96, "text": "Right, exactly." }, { "start": 514.02, "end": 518.799, "text": "Yeah turns out science and facts also have to do with your religious beliefs whatever those are right?" }, { "start": 518.84, "end": 528.2, "text": "Like we're all a theologian just some of us are really bad theologians maybe um and not actually oriented on The True God Um And so actually one of my first papers in college where I was wrestling With." }, { "start": 528.24, "end": 545.98, "text": "this was called the myth Of moral neutrality and it Was diving into This idea that We had uh wrongly especially as conservatives bought into this lie that there was a morally neutral public square where we couldn't promote anything that resembled religious faith or religious values such as children need to mother and father to thrive, right?" }, { "start": 546.58, "end": 549.5, "text": "Because it somehow defined the pluralistic society." }, { "start": 550.72, "end": 566.94, "text": "But in reality seems like the public-squared narrative really just pushed to silence conservatives while a progressive woke agenda on the left took over many of institutions in American life." }, { "start": 567.72, "end": 579.1, "text": "And connected to this, Erin Wren who wrote a book with Sondervan recently called The Three Worlds Framework Also talks about the three shifts we've seen over the last century, where back in." }, { "start": 579.76, "end": 583.34, "text": "The twentieth century to be a Christian was a social positive." }, { "start": 583.48, "end": 585.64, "text": "you received benefits if you were a Christian." }, { "start": 585.7, "end": 586.54, "text": "that was looked upon." }, { "start": 586.76, "end": 596.12, "text": "and then we moved into an era of neutrality especially in the two thousands early two thousand's Where it would be a christian with neither a positive or negative per se." }, { "start": 596.34, "end": 598.86, "text": "but I'm like oh i am a christians your buddhist you're an atheist." }, { "start": 598.98, "end": 599.74, "text": "We all work together." }, { "start": 602.82, "end": 603.38, "text": "Yeah, exactly." }, { "start": 603.54, "end": 615.6, "text": "And we're in a phase now as Erin Rin says where were into negative world Where to be a Christian In the public sphere is actually something that is publicly criticized and it can Actually harm you in very serious ways." }, { "start": 615.78, "end": 624.1, "text": "think about these San Francisco Giants right Now or The players who wrote Bible verses on their pride flag hats are at the center of A pretty large controversy Right?" }, { "start": 624.44, "end": 628.64, "text": "To Be a Christian Is no longer assumed As a positive but Can be Very very controversial." }, { "start": 631.22, "end": 641.28, "text": "All of those shifts taking place for too long, conservatives and Christians as separate but overlapping groups were simply not their eyes." }, { "start": 641.34, "end": 656.28, "text": "We're not open to the fight that was taking place And they we're believing The messaging that the goal is like pluralistic society and we all live in peace together and we leave our beliefs at home forgetting Including what we believe and that shapes everything that we do." }, { "start": 656.42, "end": 659.02, "text": "And that's not a bad thing It's actually an asset We bring to the table." }, { "start": 659.48, "end": 661.8, "text": "I would take it even deeper say, we are when we believe." }, { "start": 662.4, "end": 664.46, "text": "yes Yes exactly right." }, { "start": 664.52, "end": 666.76, "text": "yeah James K Smith Right like the head on." }, { "start": 667.1, "end": 669.7, "text": "Yeah, we're not just heads-on sticks or minds-on stakes?" }, { "start": 669.78, "end": 670.64, "text": "Yeah But yeah." }, { "start": 670.7, "end": 676.18, "text": "So i think That's probably part of where we got here but there's A much longer answer than could be its own podcast episode On that topic." }, { "start": 677.18, "end": 682.58, "text": "Yeah, and I love talking about these things because First of all, it's just so relevant." }, { "start": 682.86, "end": 691.58, "text": "Everything is in our face these days and like you said currently a net negative only to those who are publicly portraying the Christianity." }, { "start": 692.38, "end": 693.78, "text": "You're fine as long as don't say anything." }, { "start": 694.12, "end": 696.3, "text": "act a certain way Behave a certain." }, { "start": 696.34, "end": 702.88, "text": "why Just Say it in your heart-only And Don't Tell Anyone Else About It Which Is Not How Christians Are Delived." }, { "start": 704.36, "end": 708.72, "text": "But I want go back...I wanna Go To You & Your Husband Four Years Married." }, { "start": 709.88, "end": 712.18, "text": "I'd love to know a little bit of your story because you guys met in college." }, { "start": 713.18, "end": 723.94, "text": "And, um...I just- I love hearing origin stories from marriages and they're encouraging because they remind all us our origin stories Just so that everyone kinda goes through their things." }, { "start": 724.84, "end": 729.5, "text": "So you guys meet at college wanting to share about meeting or dating." }, { "start": 731.58, "end": 731.78, "text": "Yes!" }, { "start": 732.5, "end": 736.98, "text": "In many ways the basis for my book is also big turning points." }, { "start": 737.12, "end": 741.64, "text": "My husband and I met when we were in college." }, { "start": 741.94, "end": 751.8, "text": "We both went to schools in Tennessee, but we're at different universities And...we just so happened to attend a political conference In Nashville about halfway through..and we met." }, { "start": 751.86, "end": 757.38, "text": "the first night of the conference started talking Were both the oldest kids from homeschool families conservative Christian." }, { "start": 757.88, "end": 762.3, "text": "He was planning To become an Anglican minister which he's continued in." }, { "start": 762.5, "end": 769.24, "text": "i had Just start attending an anglican church quite a bit in common and so, we just really hit it off." }, { "start": 769.34, "end": 771.98, "text": "And so we were talking every night of the conference." }, { "start": 772.1, "end": 776.92, "text": "at the very end he got my number We started writing letters and talking on the phone." }, { "start": 777.08, "end": 780.14, "text": "despite being anywhere from four hours to twelve hours apart." }, { "start": 780.36, "end": 785.44, "text": "there was this immediate connection that Yeah, very interested in one another." }, { "start": 785.78, "end": 790.06, "text": "Even if we weren't necessarily thinking that you would get married there was just something there that we had to pursue." }, { "start": 790.6, "end": 804.08, "text": "so We ended up dating officially March of twenty-twenty the very week that covid shut The entire world down and So we spent One really fun weekend together And then went back To our schools and Then everyone got sent home from There." }, { "start": 804.24, "end": 811.08, "text": "and it Was good In many ways because It meant we Had more time Than ever actually talking Get to know each other and Visit one Another." }, { "start": 811.4, "end": 822.12, "text": "um...and so It seems like our relationship, I think a lot of people's during that time progressed a lot faster than it would have if we were both in school and working busy with their normal lives." }, { "start": 822.3, "end": 823.6, "text": "And long distance on top of that." }, { "start": 824.68, "end": 836.48, "text": "so we very quickly just felt madly in love for talking about marriage and all the things and A couple of months end maybe four to six months as we are very seriously talking about Marriage and next steps." }, { "start": 837.6, "end": 843.9, "text": "The question of children came on the table, and it was one of those moments that- We get" }, { "start": 843.96, "end": 845.34, "text": "the right questions come up when you're" }, { "start": 845.38, "end": 846.12, "text": "talking about marriage." }, { "start": 846.22, "end": 846.42, "text": "Right!" }, { "start": 846.48, "end": 848.5, "text": "It is like...it's the natural next step." }, { "start": 848.56, "end": 851.78, "text": "if your'e talking about Marriage You Should Talk About Kids And I Was Fully On Board With Marriage." }, { "start": 851.84, "end": 860.9, "text": "I Wanted To Get Married Young But then we brought up the idea of kids and all of a sudden it came to a screeching halt in my mind where I had this moment." }, { "start": 860.96, "end": 866.06, "text": "And realized that, I was absolutely terrified as becoming a mother end of having children." }, { "start": 866.26, "end": 873.08, "text": "It was such a strong emotional response and fearful response on my part did even surprised me when I was like Where is this coming from?" }, { "start": 873.18, "end": 874.6, "text": "Like i'm a pro-life Christian." }, { "start": 874.7, "end": 878.82, "text": "I want to get married and yet The Idea Of Having Kids Was...like..the End Of The World!" }, { "start": 879.08, "end": 886.36, "text": "I was graduating valedictorian From School....I was excited To Start My Life In DC or whatever state that I was in." }, { "start": 887.78, "end": 894.7, "text": "it became this point of tension where my now husband had never pressured me, like we have to have kids right away." }, { "start": 894.82, "end": 900.92, "text": "This is the plan but at the same time I was like well what if we waited till we were thirty-two have kids which was eight years away?" }, { "start": 901.7, "end": 904.36, "text": "and he said that seems really sad." }, { "start": 904.44, "end": 904.7, "text": "to wait." }, { "start": 904.84, "end": 907.74, "text": "eight years of marriage intentionally not having children?" }, { "start": 908.7, "end": 909.78, "text": "That's a very good vision." }, { "start": 910.14, "end": 924.24, "text": "so yeah just... The long story short there after unproductive Rather unhelpfully emotional conversations on my part, like I was just not in a very healthy place thinking about it." }, { "start": 934.12, "end": 942.22, "text": "and very quickly realized that it was one of the most foolish things I had done." }, { "start": 942.66, "end": 946.0, "text": "That there's this man who is a godly man, that I loved...that wanted to marry!" }, { "start": 946.38, "end": 949.56, "text": "And I could just thrown away because I was so scared at becoming a mother." }, { "start": 950.98, "end": 954.34, "text": "It sounds like the Holy Spirit was getting hold of your heart?" }, { "start": 955.02, "end": 955.84, "text": "Indeed yes!" }, { "start": 956.18, "end": 964.98, "text": "It's amazing how God is so capable through his holy spirit too To pinpoint things in us we didn't even know existed." }, { "start": 965.74, "end": 967.76, "text": "Yeah, just simple question about like oh well you know what do you think?" }, { "start": 967.8, "end": 968.16, "text": "About children." }, { "start": 968.24, "end": 973.98, "text": "You're like all of a sudden your realizing you have A strong golden yard against being a mother." }, { "start": 974.52, "end": 975.48, "text": "that even though existed." }, { "start": 976.08, "end": 976.2, "text": "yeah" }, { "start": 977.24, "end": 981.9, "text": "And it's exactly how God works on all of us and every step of the way." }, { "start": 981.96, "end": 986.86, "text": "I was Just talking to a friend at one Of my men meetings that i have on Tuesday mornings." }, { "start": 988.62, "end": 997.22, "text": "How god there are things That God needs To deal with Us but that takes certain circumstances for it even to become a visible thing to us." }, { "start": 998.22, "end": 998.5, "text": "And how." }, { "start": 998.74, "end": 1011.3, "text": "where we're at today and what God's dealing with is something he couldn't have dealt with years ago because me, my wife had twenty-years of marriage with six children in like." }, { "start": 1011.38, "end": 1012.48, "text": "who He was dealing with today?" }, { "start": 1013.16, "end": 1015.4, "text": "It's different than the one you've dealt with twenty years ago!" }, { "start": 1016.66, "end": 1022.64, "text": "So its really cool pulling you out." }, { "start": 1022.86, "end": 1029.04, "text": "I'm assuming in that conversation, not just feeling foolish but like there was conversations with God of why do i feel this way?" }, { "start": 1030.0, "end": 1030.88, "text": "Where's your heart on this?" }, { "start": 1030.96, "end": 1032.94, "text": "and tell me about the journey that You went on With" }, { "start": 1032.98, "end": 1033.18, "text": "God.\"." }, { "start": 1033.44, "end": 1036.94, "text": "Yeah yeah precisely what The Lord Was Doing." }, { "start": 1037.04, "end": 1046.8, "text": "so after breaking up and realizing Just In This Sharp Ping Of Regret Like Oh That Was A Terrible Decision I realized that we couldn't just get back together like nothing had happened, right?" }, { "start": 1046.859, "end": 1050.02, "text": "Like there was too severe of a break after being so serious." }, { "start": 1050.08, "end": 1050.96, "text": "Just to be like ha-ha!" }, { "start": 1051.1, "end": 1053.9, "text": "Just kidding...I have no idea what i think but I still want to marry you." }, { "start": 1053.96, "end": 1069.04, "text": "That is not good enough and the Lord really invited me on this journey to dive deep into God's word actually says about marriage motherhood in children and encounter it at its own terms based language." }, { "start": 1069.1, "end": 1070.72, "text": "that was swirling around in my mind." }, { "start": 1071.22, "end": 1079.58, "text": "And it really started when a mentor of mine brought, pulled me aside as I was pouring out my heart and what had happened at the time with all the emotions of a college student." }, { "start": 1080.04, "end": 1086.4, "text": "And she just stopped to be very lovingly but firmly said well you know Emma The Bible says that children are blessing." }, { "start": 1086.88, "end": 1096.3, "text": "so either your right That Children Are Going To Ruin Your Life Or The Bibles Right They're The Greatest Blessing For Your Life But You Can't Both Be Right So You Probably Need To Figure That Out." }, { "start": 1099.02, "end": 1105.12, "text": "Wow, like I am so far out of step with what God's word says about children and i had not even realized it." }, { "start": 1105.56, "end": 1108.22, "text": "And never would have yet realized that was the case!" }, { "start": 1108.9, "end": 1117.54, "text": "So I took a couple months meeting with mentors at mine former youth pastors and mentors in school and digging deeply into the Word Of God." }, { "start": 1117.72, "end": 1127.58, "text": "um...and you know..I was a bit type A nerd....so my spreadsheet keywords of marriage, motherhood, womanhood children and all the Bible passages in verses." }, { "start": 1127.7, "end": 1131.34, "text": "And just started reading deeply to really see like what is the heart of God?" }, { "start": 1131.68, "end": 1135.42, "text": "Who are these incredible women... What does The Bible say about this?" }, { "start": 1136.08, "end": 1149.32, "text": "It's through that process I think One convicted me, but two reshaped my affections and reshaped My heart to not only see the goodness of children as something that we are called To do." }, { "start": 1149.46, "end": 1169.54, "text": "The natural fruit of marriage to be a woman right is to have the potential to Be a mother And then it's very good thing and It's not only good-to-do But it's actually good for Me like the Lord uses That too Refine you and strengthen You an open up this whole new side Of his providence in of the world that you would otherwise never experience if you chose Not have children." }, { "start": 1169.92, "end": 1171.14, "text": "And I say that intentionally, right?" }, { "start": 1171.18, "end": 1179.4, "text": "Because there are couples who will struggle with infertility who are not able to have children or women who never get married and i think those are particular calling the Lord has for them." }, { "start": 1179.52, "end": 1190.48, "text": "but in cases where you're intentionally choosing You're saying no to this beautiful world and life of an adventure that the Lord has for you, um And then it's not something optional." }, { "start": 1190.6, "end": 1198.06, "text": "Like I think a lot even like some Christians today will say well Marriage yes This is God's design but kids kids are my decision." }, { "start": 1198.26, "end": 1199.68, "text": "i can have them or i cannot Have them?" }, { "start": 1199.82, "end": 1200.74, "text": "That's totally fine." }, { "start": 1203.44, "end": 1203.48, "text": "The" }, { "start": 1207.6, "end": 1214.28, "text": "first question is, in your deep research and spreadsheet how many verses did you come across that were negative in connotation towards children?" }, { "start": 1214.82, "end": 1215.44, "text": "Oh um" }, { "start": 1216.36, "end": 1218.4, "text": "well none." }, { "start": 1218.62, "end": 1226.52, "text": "None for any godly people right like... You had bad people doing saying bad things about children but those are clearly the villains of this story." }, { "start": 1226.7, "end": 1229.7, "text": "And aside from God's word or like godly Christians none." }, { "start": 1229.74, "end": 1229.8, "text": "Yeah" }, { "start": 1231.0, "end": 1238.5, "text": "yeah the Bible is pretty much hundred percent positive in the terms of speaking to children, and especially on Jesus' side of things." }, { "start": 1239.06, "end": 1251.44, "text": "He speaks very highly of children even tells us that we need be more like them which it should be a very convicting thing for us as Christians if we're commanded to become like children." }, { "start": 1252.3, "end": 1254.18, "text": "unless we do have no part in The Kingdom Of Heaven." }, { "start": 1254.96, "end": 1264.38, "text": "I think We Should Have A More Sober View Like Wow There's Something Special About Children That God Loves And we must become more like them." }, { "start": 1264.54, "end": 1266.74, "text": "So yeah, and there was another thought I had." }, { "start": 1266.98, "end": 1273.1, "text": "you said There's a lot of negative thoughts in your mind about children and This is any time i get an opportunity?" }, { "start": 1273.18, "end": 1291.42, "text": "I want to highlight this that this Is something That my wife when i experienced very similarly When We were getting You know early married first year The only things We heard About Children Were Negative From Christians and non-christians alike and it's still A pattern To this day." }, { "start": 1293.64, "end": 1294.68, "text": "I think it's being broken." }, { "start": 1295.1, "end": 1308.18, "text": "There are more people like you, there is people that see this in a different light and say wait a minute we've been lied to but for generations the only communication we would get about children was negative." }, { "start": 1309.1, "end": 1315.92, "text": "not that any Christian will directly say children have negative impact on your life But it'd be like, wow." }, { "start": 1316.16, "end": 1318.14, "text": "You know make sure you get all your travel out of the way now?" }, { "start": 1318.32, "end": 1318.58, "text": "Wow!" }, { "start": 1318.7, "end": 1321.68, "text": "Make sure to go and sleep now because once you have kids...you're not going to sleep anymore." }, { "start": 1322.4, "end": 1324.44, "text": "And those are the kinds of terms that you would hear." }, { "start": 1325.24, "end": 1330.12, "text": "It was socially acceptable for me to say these things Like even now they see I've got six kids." }, { "start": 1330.16, "end": 1333.5, "text": "So if we had our hands full Of course i do..I want my hands full." }, { "start": 1334.44, "end": 1335.84, "text": "I want this good stuff." }, { "start": 1338.38, "end": 1341.2, "text": "The only thing here is negative." }, { "start": 1341.38, "end": 1342.54, "text": "so I made a point." }, { "start": 1343.48, "end": 1349.54, "text": "My wife & I Even though there are realities that are hard and negative about having kids, like it's not to be fake." }, { "start": 1350.26, "end": 1354.56, "text": "I make it a point to never say negative things to people ever About children." }, { "start": 1355.14, "end": 1365.9, "text": "but people wanting have babies you know they had one was at the park with my kid Actually bunch of my kids And There Was A young Woman There With A baby and i was Like oh is this your first?" }, { "start": 1365.94, "end": 1366.54, "text": "and she said yeah?" }, { "start": 1367.4, "end": 1369.64, "text": "and i just was like Encouraging." }, { "start": 1369.72, "end": 1373.96, "text": "i was like You Know yes Number three was the hardest for us, but it's so amazing." }, { "start": 1374.0, "end": 1378.14, "text": "And like you could totally do and she's like yeah cause I mean my husband we're thinking like should we have more?" }, { "start": 1378.18, "end": 1379.16, "text": "And they'm like absolutely!" }, { "start": 1379.66, "end": 1380.38, "text": "You should totally have more." }, { "start": 1380.42, "end": 1381.1, "text": "It's best thing ever." }, { "start": 1382.48, "end": 1398.06, "text": "So... We need not just quote unquote fake positive reverse psychology type things But really showing a positive mentality having a positive disposition towards children." }, { "start": 1398.68, "end": 1402.08, "text": "for all my kids, you know they'll say oh we want to have six seven and I'm like dude." }, { "start": 1402.4, "end": 1405.24, "text": "You have as many of us who aren't going to come in hang out or hold your babies." }, { "start": 1406.26, "end": 1419.62, "text": "so that doesn't take away from how hard it is but changes the mentality at what you had unconsciously developed these negative connotations on children without even knowing because everything we've heard." }, { "start": 1420.38, "end": 1427.7, "text": "It's no chance other than God changing us with the way its communicated." }, { "start": 1427.76, "end": 1439.0, "text": "So God bless you for changing that terminology and let's be more positive so we can give better viewpoints on it to the younger generations." }, { "start": 1440.42, "end": 1445.1, "text": "You were anti-kid for half a second, then god got hold of your heart like wait a minute." }, { "start": 1445.14, "end": 1445.68, "text": "what am I thinking?" }, { "start": 1446.66, "end": 1451.24, "text": "And uh... What i love is when into the word of god which THAT IS WHAT TRANSFORMED YOU!" }, { "start": 1452.04, "end": 1454.26, "text": "The bible tells us to transform by renewing our minds." }, { "start": 1454.3, "end": 1456.54, "text": "Your mind was one way now its another." }, { "start": 1458.24, "end": 1459.18, "text": "What are some things?" }, { "start": 1459.5, "end": 1463.76, "text": "what are some scriptures, what are Some questions we as believers could be asking?" }, { "start": 1464.36, "end": 1471.4, "text": "because I'm gonna Be honest even having six kids negative thoughts come into my mind all the time about my kids." }, { "start": 1471.98, "end": 1474.12, "text": "So What are somethings that we can do?" }, { "start": 1474.42, "end": 1483.22, "text": "looking at The word of God to continue to be transformed in a way We see our children yeah value they have and our homes And lives uh-huh into god?" }, { "start": 1483.96, "end": 1491.26, "text": "yes okay Yes i mean i think the entire Bible is just God's heart for drawing people to himself." }, { "start": 1491.46, "end": 1494.5, "text": "and how does he give us that opportunity as humans?" }, { "start": 1494.58, "end": 1496.56, "text": "Well, first and foremost it sits through our families." }, { "start": 1496.6, "end": 1500.48, "text": "Through the children we have then its through our churches in communities beyond that." }, { "start": 1500.96, "end": 1510.54, "text": "but at a time when I was wrestling with this John was a very powerful verse where it says that the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy." }, { "start": 1511.08, "end": 1513.44, "text": "But I Jesus come to bring life and life" }, { "start": 1513.64, "end": 1514.34, "text": "abundant.\"." }, { "start": 1514.9, "end": 1520.9, "text": "And It's just this incredible moment of realizing that while The Enemy is telling me all these lies about children That Children are going." }, { "start": 1520.98, "end": 1522.24, "text": "take my time My money?" }, { "start": 1522.46, "end": 1522.94, "text": "My body?" }, { "start": 1523.16, "end": 1524.76, "text": "My fitness they're gonna skin." }, { "start": 1524.82, "end": 1529.9, "text": "take my sense Of self-my career goals my hopes in dreams and i'll Just be left sad and alone In irrelevant." }, { "start": 1530.06, "end": 1531.56, "text": "whatever that actually means right?" }, { "start": 1531.86, "end": 1535.08, "text": "um that jesus Actually Comes To Bring Us Life to the fullest." }, { "start": 1535.22, "end": 1540.12, "text": "And so whatever Christ calls us, what ever the Bible points this too is for our good and" }, { "start": 1540.18, "end": 1540.74, "text": "flourishing.\"." }, { "start": 1541.04, "end": 1549.08, "text": "Likewise looking through the Gospels A seed must first die if it's going to bear fruit." }, { "start": 1549.6, "end": 1561.58, "text": "And this idea that, If we don't first die to ourselves right upon the cross of Christ then We will never be raised and resurrected To full life and they'll actually grow smaller sadder and just worse as humans Right?" }, { "start": 1561.66, "end": 1566.36, "text": "Not more reflective not more joyful not more fulfilled in who God is what he has for us?" }, { "start": 1567.06, "end": 1567.92, "text": "Um, so those were." }, { "start": 1568.18, "end": 1570.28, "text": "Those were a lot of the verses that we're just really convicting to me." }, { "start": 1570.32, "end": 1571.12, "text": "because do your point right?" }, { "start": 1571.32, "end": 1572.2, "text": "Life is hard." }, { "start": 1572.64, "end": 1576.72, "text": "life as hard if you choose to have six kids like this heart is If You Choose not To Have Six Kids." }, { "start": 1577.22, "end": 1588.2, "text": "and on The Fitness Point My Mother-in-law Who Has Five Kids She Also Told Me Where she you know at various Points Like Struggled With Her Body Image And Was Like You Know Having five Kids Can Be Hard On Your Body." }, { "start": 1588.3, "end": 1589.82, "text": "Then You Hit Your Forties In Your fifties." }, { "start": 1590.32, "end": 1596.1, "text": "But then She Started Looking Around her and She was Like You know my other Friends who Didn't Have Kids Who Were in Their forties or Fifties." }, { "start": 1596.58, "end": 1599.98, "text": "They're still struggling with weight gain and their body image, all these things." }, { "start": 1600.04, "end": 1607.78, "text": "And she was like so I can look back and be grateful that had five kids in them now struggling with a healthy body or I have no kids and still struggle having a healthy bodies." }, { "start": 1608.2, "end": 1609.84, "text": "She's actually just better to have the kids." }, { "start": 1611.02, "end": 1612.54, "text": "Likewise for those issues right?" }, { "start": 1613.36, "end": 1615.68, "text": "It is question of life going hard." }, { "start": 1616.42, "end": 1623.58, "text": "what if you've had little humans who reflect on your husband bringing extra joy and strength and fun along with difficulties?" }, { "start": 1624.18, "end": 1626.48, "text": "Um, so a mix of scripture there." }, { "start": 1626.86, "end": 1636.76, "text": "But even looking in the Old Testament and The question of women as mothers and woman In the home because certainly if motherhood has been under attack, the home Has really been under attacked?" }, { "start": 1636.94, "end": 1646.1, "text": "idea Of staying at home As stay-at-home mom or working remote Or prioritizing your family first has Been under attack for decades as A waste of your life." }, { "start": 1646.36, "end": 1647.86, "text": "you're giving up your ambitions." }, { "start": 1647.94, "end": 1652.78, "text": "You are not fully living into Yeah, the potential that you have whatever the lie is." }, { "start": 1653.48, "end": 1662.36, "text": "And Reading scripture, I was so struck by how many women were fighting in and through the home as their primary place of strength." }, { "start": 1662.82, "end": 1675.22, "text": "They weren't believing the lie that you quote have to go out there to these specific responsibilities and duties that you had where God's greatness shines through you." }, { "start": 1675.76, "end": 1682.5, "text": "And so this is where I encountered stories like JL in the Book of Judges who kills the enemy general with her tent peg and mallet," }, { "start": 1686.06, "end": 1686.22, "text": "Yes," }, { "start": 1686.78, "end": 1689.94, "text": "it's awesome and it's not because she used like violence right?" }, { "start": 1689.98, "end": 1691.34, "text": "Like violence is not the point of this story." }, { "start": 1691.4, "end": 1692.38, "text": "The point of the story Part" }, { "start": 1692.42, "end": 1693.08, "text": "of why its awesome though." }, { "start": 1693.74, "end": 1697.8, "text": "Well maybe for that yes It's an incredible feat of strength." }, { "start": 1698.02, "end": 1698.9, "text": "think about it practically." }, { "start": 1699.02, "end": 1707.76, "text": "could you take a wooden tent peg in mallet And drive it through a grown man skull with one fell swoop So he doesn't wake up and kill you and everyone that you love." }, { "start": 1708.22, "end": 1709.6, "text": "I mean chances are i couldn't." }, { "start": 1709.9, "end": 1712.26, "text": "based on the testosterone and grip strength of both men." }, { "start": 1712.32, "end": 1713.48, "text": "they probably couldn't either." }, { "start": 1713.74, "end": 1715.98, "text": "This was actually difficult tasks." }, { "start": 1716.54, "end": 1727.8, "text": "But it was a task that she was only equipped to do because she had been faithful to the day-to-day responsibility of setting up and taking down her tent, which is a feminine domestic duty involving The Wooden Tit Pegg in Mallet." }, { "start": 1728.36, "end": 1737.1, "text": "And so Because She Had Been Faithful Every Day To These Basic Tours And Quote Homemaking Responsibilities Got Equipped Her For This Extraordinary Act Of Faithfulness!" }, { "start": 1737.72, "end": 1743.48, "text": "You See this In The Woman of Thabas And Mary And Esther And Deborah And Woman After Woman In The Bible." }, { "start": 1743.62, "end": 1751.76, "text": "Whose Faithfulness to their children and ultimately, the Word of God is what prepared them for the great things that God called them too." }, { "start": 1752.02, "end": 1774.86, "text": "Yeah you know I think one of the biggest thing we struggle with as a people just humans but Christian specifically there's this scripture in Old Testament talks about why God punished some angels because they left their domains where were meant." }, { "start": 1775.98, "end": 1778.0, "text": "They were not there when they were supposed to be." }, { "start": 1778.36, "end": 1797.64, "text": "And we see this all throughout scripture, it's not just for the women who were where they was supposed to at that time in Esther and such a time as these kind of terminologies but you can also find situations with famous ones like King David." }, { "start": 1799.06, "end": 1806.06, "text": "It says In A Time When Kings Go Out To War David Was On The Rooftop of his castle." }, { "start": 1807.24, "end": 1810.02, "text": "David wasn't where he should have been, and what happens?" }, { "start": 1810.56, "end": 1823.54, "text": "We know we have the story of him committing adultery murdering his best friend... And there's these seasons that we have in life." }, { "start": 1825.34, "end": 1826.2, "text": "motherhood is a season." }, { "start": 1827.62, "end": 1831.48, "text": "you will always be a mom-a mother but your not going to." }, { "start": 1833.02, "end": 1835.74, "text": "And so it's a season, you know being a father is a season." }, { "start": 1835.84, "end": 1837.18, "text": "Being um... You know?" }, { "start": 1837.24, "end": 1838.64, "text": "Being a newlywed as a season!" }, { "start": 1838.72, "end": 1840.08, "text": "Being grandparents has a season." }, { "start": 1840.16, "end": 1843.78, "text": "all of these things and where we're supposed to be domains that God's given us." }, { "start": 1844.76, "end": 1849.18, "text": "I think the big problem we have as Christians Is We've outsourced All Of Our Domains." }, { "start": 1849.98, "end": 1863.76, "text": "We've out sourced, you Know parenting without source teaching without sourced Um..You know A holiness Without source The word of god without source every aspect of our life for the pursuit of something else." }, { "start": 1864.78, "end": 1867.36, "text": "More freedom, more money and" }, { "start": 1867.4, "end": 1867.7, "text": "whatever.\"." }, { "start": 1868.52, "end": 1873.06, "text": "And I feel like that's kind what you're getting at in your book... What is it titled?" }, { "start": 1873.1, "end": 1873.7, "text": "Your book by the way?" }, { "start": 1874.14, "end": 1878.2, "text": "It's called Lead Like Jail, Seven Tendless Principles For Todays Women Of Faith" }, { "start": 1878.98, "end": 1890.98, "text": "Yeah which i love that you are pulling these stories especially jail from judges the spiritual aspects of what it can teach us, and teach women in their roles." }, { "start": 1891.02, "end": 1895.22, "text": "But there's so much application for us as husbands as well." }, { "start": 1896.14, "end": 1906.48, "text": "when you see a husband who is not where he should be constantly with hobbies, constantly with buddies, constantly outside-the-home kind... And that's NOT A GOOD PLACE FOR A HUSBAND TO BE!" }, { "start": 1906.54, "end": 1914.4, "text": "It doesn't mean they CAN'T have hobbies or friends but God has given US A PLACE TO BE And it's the best place to be." }, { "start": 1914.84, "end": 1918.52, "text": "There is a reason for and there was purpose of, too much outsourcing going." }, { "start": 1918.56, "end": 1919.88, "text": "do you have any thoughts on that?" }, { "start": 1921.32, "end": 1922.5, "text": "The thing comes to mind." }, { "start": 1923.18, "end": 1929.06, "text": "part of the dichotomy my book opens with is the Tradwife versus Girl Boss Dichotomy." }, { "start": 1929.62, "end": 1931.8, "text": "this what we hear in popular culture." }, { "start": 1931.88, "end": 1942.7, "text": "I think Atlantic just today had yet another article criticizing Um, and I'm not on the whole anti tradition or am NOT at all anti traditional woman." }, { "start": 1942.86, "end": 1943.02, "text": "Right?" }, { "start": 1943.08, "end": 1946.18, "text": "Like a woman who is a homemaker who raises her kids that's great." }, { "start": 1946.5, "end": 1958.28, "text": "when we talk about trad wife for meaning like the online iteration of influencers which i think can be far more problematic because in many cases they're really Christians are actually more pagan, um in what they're presenting." }, { "start": 1958.36, "end": 1962.94, "text": "So just to clarify that because I think a lot of people like well i think i'm a tradwife or you saying tradwives are bad." }, { "start": 1963.12, "end": 1964.64, "text": "no it's two very different things." }, { "start": 1965.14, "end": 1973.5, "text": "but the thing that strikes me is that I actually think with the online Tradwife world and with The Girl Boss have put your career first before family Before Everything Else." }, { "start": 1974.04, "end": 1979.32, "text": "It's Actually A Bit Of A Horseshoe Theory Where The Two Are More Similar Than Their distinct." }, { "start": 1979.84, "end": 1991.0, "text": "And the reason for this is because in a lot of online TroutWife discourse, you get this proto-feminist messaging where they say well I'm... The home is my domain!" }, { "start": 1991.36, "end": 1992.26, "text": "I am in charge here." }, { "start": 1992.72, "end": 1994.8, "text": "My husband will never lift his finger at home." }, { "start": 1994.86, "end": 1996.18, "text": "He'll NEVER change it diaper." }, { "start": 1996.7, "end": 1999.52, "text": "he goes out and works but the Home IS MY SPACE!" }, { "start": 1999.96, "end": 2007.38, "text": "In some cases their trying to articulate positive vision Dominion of their home, which goes back to very biblical origins." }, { "start": 2007.76, "end": 2023.14, "text": "But at the same time I've seen a lot of versions Of this where it's actually enforcing This very arbitrary line between husbands or only public and wives are Only private missing The Biblical vision of the household Where husband as head of the wife is Head of the Home?" }, { "start": 2023.3, "end": 2024.48, "text": "And two end To your point." }, { "start": 2024.56, "end": 2027.86, "text": "right like his domain Is the home As much as the domain is the Wife's home." }, { "start": 2028.26, "end": 2031.12, "text": "and they're Actually called to do this in faithful partnership." }, { "start": 2031.56, "end": 2035.74, "text": "Together God has given them to build a productive household." }, { "start": 2036.28, "end": 2044.28, "text": "And I've seen versions of this even in the homeschool world where you have, um...I think just because of practical circumstances right?" }, { "start": 2044.34, "end": 2053.08, "text": "Like if the husband's working ten-to-twelve hours a day and he is not at home then there's this sense that when mom who was always they are sort of becomes de facto person in charge." }, { "start": 2053.639, "end": 2062.4, "text": "so husbands defer to their wives for major decisions about dating or boundaries with kids or faith because they're just not there as much." }, { "start": 2062.44, "end": 2064.54, "text": "And then the wives take on this role." }, { "start": 2064.6, "end": 2076.78, "text": "that in some cases, I think they feel like they have to take on but meet again isn't actually fulfilling this vision of husband has been deeply involved into life at home and leading them well." }, { "start": 2078.46, "end": 2092.76, "text": "even on conservative side we can slip some of these pitfalls where we're not actually fully embracing God's vision for the home and marriage, as much as we are segregating this into separate roles." }, { "start": 2093.28, "end": 2098.98, "text": "Or in worst case scenarios both husband-and-wife sort outsource it to someone else who is busy doing their own projects." }, { "start": 2100.88, "end": 2102.62, "text": "but ultimately you want those persons." }, { "start": 2102.7, "end": 2104.54, "text": "they aren't just the wife right?" }, { "start": 2104.72, "end": 2106.46, "text": "It isn't a singular calling that way." }, { "start": 2108.42, "end": 2113.08, "text": "Another big tragedy about what your talking For." }, { "start": 2113.3, "end": 2115.24, "text": "for generations since the beginning of time." }, { "start": 2115.28, "end": 2125.76, "text": "The home has been a central hub for everything Yeah, but the career for that money making for you know raising in the children for all of things And so it's kind of hard thing." }, { "start": 2125.8, "end": 2126.82, "text": "where now?" }, { "start": 2126.92, "end": 2131.36, "text": "Everything All of that often happens outside the house outside them." }, { "start": 2132.16, "end": 2142.1, "text": "So the Children almost never get involved In what's taking place and the business on the money-making and then the decision-making That all of that doesn't get seen within the home." }, { "start": 2143.08, "end": 2149.86, "text": "So I do see that there are positives in this Tread-Wife movement, but also very clearly what you're talking about." }, { "start": 2151.08, "end": 2154.68, "text": "It's being turned into a totem rather than like." }, { "start": 2154.82, "end": 2164.04, "text": "here is the picture of a biblical woman and yeah we have more whole pictures that Bible gives us it." }, { "start": 2164.2, "end": 2168.24, "text": "not as simple just women making bread putting on an apron." }, { "start": 2171.94, "end": 2173.28, "text": "those things can be part of it for sure." }, { "start": 2175.02, "end": 2188.2, "text": "But, its important as Christians that we don't get our truth from the public square and then everything else gets tested against it." }, { "start": 2188.64, "end": 2191.84, "text": "so when you look at this Tradvive movement he has to get tested against whatever I like." }, { "start": 2191.88, "end": 2195.0, "text": "well there are some things in here where we can pull and glean from." }, { "start": 2196.4, "end": 2205.76, "text": "but same on the boss wife The feminist movement has some good aspects to this, you know self-image and being resourceful." }, { "start": 2205.84, "end": 2208.92, "text": "And knowing how do business because you see province thirty one woman." }, { "start": 2210.0, "end": 2217.04, "text": "she is resourceful in business oriented and understands How To Make Purchases and Seize Value In Land?" }, { "start": 2217.5, "end": 2218.28, "text": "And why it's valuable." }, { "start": 2218.34, "end": 2229.94, "text": "but She Does It From A Specific Perspective And Position At Home And Its Not Without Her Husband And its not alone for the betterment of whole unit, not herself." }, { "start": 2230.54, "end": 2234.6, "text": "And so all of these things we do need to be going back to the Word of God and saying how." }, { "start": 2234.8, "end": 2236.84, "text": "you know as John tells us first." }, { "start": 2236.88, "end": 2238.32, "text": "John tells this test every spirit?" }, { "start": 2238.9, "end": 2241.22, "text": "You know that The Spirit Of Which you know Tread Wife is." }, { "start": 2241.5, "end": 2243.02, "text": "you Know That whole thing Is coming in." }, { "start": 2243.08, "end": 2243.88, "text": "what is the spirit of that?" }, { "start": 2244.5, "end": 2250.2, "text": "and How Do We Test That Against the word of God In the Spirit of Truth and Build a Glean from That?" }, { "start": 2250.8, "end": 2252.84, "text": "and We Shouldn't Just Be Getting our truth From." }, { "start": 2253.3, "end": 2254.26, "text": "you know Social Media Reels?" }, { "start": 2254.48, "end": 2264.26, "text": "Yes Well No This Is Precisely It Right Like I on the Feminism Point like I hear so many people, including Christians who were like well feminism gave us these three positive things." }, { "start": 2264.32, "end": 2284.0, "text": "So we can't say feminism is bad or we can criticize robust feminism and my response is exactly what you've articulated which is to say that actually if you go back to the Bible every good thing that feminism has quote unquote delivered it's actually just in the bible as a good thing for humans Like i don't need feminism as social movement To achieve those things." }, { "start": 2284.06, "end": 2289.94, "text": "We should look at the bible and a fateful, hard-working resourceful woman." }, { "start": 2290.38, "end": 2294.82, "text": "We see all of these examples of what true feminine strength looks like which isn't passivity." }, { "start": 2295.06, "end": 2298.74, "text": "it's not this sort of I'm the doormat to whatever you want right?" }, { "start": 2298.8, "end": 2301.82, "text": "Like its very wise and shrewd and decisive." }, { "start": 2302.44, "end": 2317.64, "text": "but we don't need cultural movements to show us that ultimately that the way we should think about this is as a signal, women desire deeper connection to their home." }, { "start": 2317.74, "end": 2333.16, "text": "They want re-experience and embrace domestic life so they can gain positive things from certain aspects of it." }, { "start": 2333.2, "end": 2341.9, "text": "but ultimately we need orient them toward God for healthy families in churches where properly and fully." }, { "start": 2342.54, "end": 2350.24, "text": "Yeah, in the way that God intended it not just relying on some sort of cultural back-and-forth to mediate a conversation That's always changing with every generation." }, { "start": 2350.9, "end": 2355.6, "text": "Yep We're gonna be coming out close here now about ten minutes." }, { "start": 2356.02, "end": 2359.96, "text": "I Just wanted to dig into an aspect of your book we talked about." }, { "start": 2360.48, "end": 2362.28, "text": "you just brought up You know submission what?" }, { "start": 2367.84, "end": 2377.2, "text": "because it's a really powerful thing for husband and wife to recognize the ministry that their marriage is in the body of Christ, In The World." }, { "start": 2378.0, "end": 2380.44, "text": "Not just to each other but your children." }, { "start": 2380.56, "end": 2390.3, "text": "And then what you're family as whole Is to be bringing into this world where we are seeing What We Are Doing As A Ministry In This World Because It's Exactly What It Is." }, { "start": 2390.42, "end": 2393.34, "text": "I have a ministry to my wife." }, { "start": 2393.38, "end": 2396.98, "text": "My wife has the ministry, too me and we had a ministry for our children or home as a ministry two" }, { "start": 2397.12, "end": 2397.6, "text": "outsiders.\"." }, { "start": 2398.7, "end": 2402.86, "text": "And what is biblical submission look like in The Home?" }, { "start": 2403.76, "end": 2406.76, "text": "How are husband-and-wife team?" }, { "start": 2407.5, "end": 2413.52, "text": "because you mentioned this in very military terms which i kind of love cause they were at battle." }, { "start": 2414.16, "end": 2422.8, "text": "Like he said there's a battle against our marriage Against Our Homes in the tearing down of, uh...the authority on husband and role as wife." }, { "start": 2423.34, "end": 2437.22, "text": "In the beauty children at home all it is being every single aspect definitions terms they actual logistics of a lot that has been attacked by enemy other world um..and being flipped on its head." }, { "start": 2437.82, "end": 2437.86, "text": "we" }, { "start": 2438.28, "end": 2438.82, "text": "were in battle." }, { "start": 2439.36, "end": 2440.36, "text": "so what does that look like?" }, { "start": 2440.48, "end": 2445.84, "text": "Husband or Wife first seeing the battle for what's it looks to walk together?" }, { "start": 2446.68, "end": 2448.5, "text": "Yeah, this is a great question." }, { "start": 2449.38, "end": 2454.0, "text": "And one of the things that was so striking to me even looking at Genesis One through Three." }, { "start": 2454.5, "end": 2457.16, "text": "and where did the very first attack happen?" }, { "start": 2457.32, "end": 2463.88, "text": "It didn't happened in The Wilderness it didn't happen on the battlefield...it happened In the Garden Of Eden-the perfect sanctuary." }, { "start": 2464.1, "end": 2465.24, "text": "God created-the home!" }, { "start": 2465.82, "end": 2479.5, "text": "And it struck me in writing this book That the enemy's target has always been THE HOME because the enemy, even if we don't realize it knows that the home is one of the greatest sources of God's faithfulness and working in power." }, { "start": 2479.66, "end": 2486.66, "text": "In our lives And many cases We've actually been lured into this lie That The Home Is Irrelevant Or Secondary Or Can Be Outsourced." }, { "start": 2486.74, "end": 2497.96, "text": "But Satan The Enemy Knows It's Actually One Of The Greatest Sources Of Power And Strength And Life if it's wielded by faithful Christians, which is why Satan attacked the home beginning in The Book of Genesis and why he continues to attack the home today." }, { "start": 2498.58, "end": 2508.74, "text": "And so as we're looking through story that develops in Genesis two and even three, though a very sad story." }, { "start": 2508.82, "end": 2514.84, "text": "In chapter Three where you see Adam created but he is alone He doesn't have a helper fit for him." }, { "start": 2514.94, "end": 2518.2, "text": "And so God says well You need to find your azare connecto?" }, { "start": 2518.96, "end": 2521.78, "text": "That's the phrase that often translated suitable helper." }, { "start": 2522.22, "end": 2534.52, "text": "But philogen peter lightheart has this delightful book called The glory of man which I highly recommend For anyone to go and read and he talks about how they phrase Azare Connecto can also be just uh as a battlemate." }, { "start": 2535.44, "end": 2555.42, "text": "A stronger party coming to the help of The Weaker Party because outside the use of Isaiah, Kenecto and Genesis two every other time that phrase is used in the Bible it refers to God Coming To The Help Of His People ,to David's mighty men coming to The Help of Israel And its force meeting Force to strengthen It for the purpose That Got His Called Them Two." }, { "start": 2556.06, "end": 2562.82, "text": "I thought it was such a beautiful way to think about marriage to Think About Eve As The Battle Mate Alongside Her Husband right?" }, { "start": 2563.64, "end": 2572.82, "text": "As someone who is actually there to strengthen and complete the mission that God has called them too, not like an assistant or domestic servant." }, { "start": 2572.96, "end": 2575.9, "text": "Or you're a tag along but I've got the mission God is calling us do know?" }, { "start": 2575.96, "end": 2577.02, "text": "Like two complete your mission." }, { "start": 2577.14, "end": 2583.48, "text": "husbands need their body make their wife And likewise wives must be faithful to that colleagues so they can succeed together." }, { "start": 2583.96, "end": 2585.42, "text": "Um...and yeah." }, { "start": 2585.5, "end": 2597.08, "text": "So That just struck me as thinking about what submission looks of husband's being head of household The one that the Lord given authority in leadership to lead the wife and children, too by extension." }, { "start": 2597.92, "end": 2606.86, "text": "But also the recognition that it is an interdependent pursuit of glory if you will where the husband at the same time needs his battlemate in order to succeed." }, { "start": 2606.96, "end": 2616.8, "text": "but they are both being brought into this beautiful mission and vision the Lord has for them as complementary but distinct roles to play or ways of relating to each other?" }, { "start": 2617.84, "end": 2631.02, "text": "And I think some Christians who have grown up egalitarianism or complementarianism has left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, where there is a lot baggage around those debates." }, { "start": 2631.34, "end": 2639.18, "text": "That s separate conversation but thinking about it putting the greater calling and mission ahead of you." }, { "start": 2639.68, "end": 2641.76, "text": "It helps clarify everything else, right?" }, { "start": 2641.88, "end": 2643.96, "text": "Because You can be distracted by a host Of things." }, { "start": 2644.36, "end": 2659.42, "text": "but if your eyes are on The Mission that Lord has called you to then you're going To have this clear-eyed focus That silences distractions it makes it easier to discern when you should say yes or Say no two different initiatives that might take you away from that Or away From home And really orient Your view there." }, { "start": 2660.34, "end": 2666.14, "text": "So thats why I yeah Really relied very heavily On that because i just thought beautiful way of thinking about it." }, { "start": 2666.34, "end": 2673.32, "text": "I'm thinking about the way God has called us in marriage, not as same persons who were totally equal right?" }, { "start": 2673.36, "end": 2679.68, "text": "The Lord has put his husband is head of wife and yet at this time to explore that beautiful vision the Lord has." }, { "start": 2679.9, "end": 2688.5, "text": "um And This what we see throughout the Bible of wives and women coming into the aid of faithful men To strengthen further them." }, { "start": 2689.36, "end": 2692.74, "text": "And so no woman in the Bible, for example ever picks up a sword to fight." }, { "start": 2692.8, "end": 2699.42, "text": "Um and yet she's essential for So many of the victories that The Lord has for her and For Her people." }, { "start": 2699.76, "end": 2699.9, "text": "Yeah" }, { "start": 2700.64, "end": 2709.8, "text": "Well I think it's understated often How much power A wife Has In Our Husbands Mind & Heart." }, { "start": 2711.2, "end": 2720.8, "text": "Simply Believing In Us You Know Telling us That We Can Do It Is more than anyone ever needs to be able accomplish anything they haven't." }, { "start": 2720.84, "end": 2736.98, "text": "Like if they have a vision for something and the wife who supports them, yeah it's on their side and sticks up with him in reminds of the truth encourages that power is more powerful then thousand positive voices from other people even people that respect." }, { "start": 2737.02, "end": 2750.32, "text": "you know what I've done more than them but at their life isn't for them how weak that makes us feel And I'm sure every husband at some point has felt this doesn't mean everyone feels it all the time, but Like man." }, { "start": 2750.44, "end": 2757.48, "text": "I would be able to continue on in this hard thing if my wife was on my side But I feel like I want to give up because she's not." }, { "start": 2758.84, "end": 2762.32, "text": "that It's an insanely powerful gift." }, { "start": 2762.76, "end": 2764.08, "text": "is a wife who?" }, { "start": 2764.22, "end": 2764.92, "text": "Is on your side?" }, { "start": 2765.42, "end": 2770.98, "text": "and uh-and just i'm hoping all the wives listening are hearing This like wow I always wrote my life." }, { "start": 2772.16, "end": 2790.16, "text": "You have the most power in my life than anyone else of my whole life Your voice, your presence, your encouragement or the opposite It has the most powers outside of the Holy Spirit Of course But that's one thing the Holy spirit wants to use is a wife In her husband." }, { "start": 2791.72, "end": 2802.56, "text": "So it really cool you bring up because i totally agree with That and think The bad taste that egalitarian has given is very similar to this idea of boss wife or tradwife." }, { "start": 2803.06, "end": 2813.64, "text": "This swing, there's some positive elements in the idea that she can do amazing things and teach all these things which are true things!" }, { "start": 2815.62, "end": 2819.5, "text": "I don't know where you would land on it but Isn't?" }, { "start": 2821.26, "end": 2824.26, "text": "that isn't what it says?" }, { "start": 2824.34, "end": 2826.56, "text": "It is where it's like, oh we're equal therefore." }, { "start": 2826.62, "end": 2827.5, "text": "We can do the same things." }, { "start": 2827.56, "end": 2828.8, "text": "What really Isis?" }, { "start": 2830.32, "end": 2837.5, "text": "I want to replace you and That's The problem we have with that because what yours when You're saying what the Bible Says is there is no." }, { "start": 2838.1, "end": 2843.52, "text": "it's not that were Equal in abilities or equal In position its were equal in nature." }, { "start": 2844.0, "end": 2848.26, "text": "know God made us in his image Together remain in His image which was a powerful thought." }, { "start": 2849.38, "end": 2854.3, "text": "but we Have roles powerful, more powerful together than they are apart." }, { "start": 2855.2, "end": 2866.74, "text": "That when we walk together as a husband and wife and what God's called us to accomplish those things in desire of these things—and not desire to replace the other person because all that does is tear down." }, { "start": 2868.64, "end": 2876.46, "text": "No, just a note." }, { "start": 2876.52, "end": 2878.32, "text": "I wanted to make on that because That's how i've seen." }, { "start": 2878.38, "end": 2879.7, "text": "it is not what it says." }, { "start": 2879.76, "end": 2881.68, "text": "It actually the opposite of What?" }, { "start": 2882.16, "end": 2884.1, "text": "Yes well yes you were spot-on." }, { "start": 2884.46, "end": 2898.86, "text": "um II think one Of The Beautiful Visions You Get Is In The Names Given To Adam and Eve in Genesis two And Three Because I Think This Points Us To Division Of How In Many Ways Husband and Wives Can Practically Interact With Each Other Especially When Children Are In The Picture." }, { "start": 2899.6, "end": 2903.04, "text": "So Adam Has Given The Name Adam Which Means Up The Earth The Ground." }, { "start": 2903.12, "end": 2907.12, "text": "It Speaks To His Call provide for his wife." }, { "start": 2907.18, "end": 2922.06, "text": "and when Adam meets Eve in h himself in light of her a man, it speaks to this calli like Christ to lay down hi life." }, { "start": 2922.82, "end": 2925.76, "text": "To love her an care for her." }, { "start": 2926.42, "end": 2934.38, "text": "Eve lik two by three names The first mate." }, { "start": 2934.82, "end": 2937.9, "text": "The second is the Isha shah, the wife of Adam right?" }, { "start": 2937.98, "end": 2939.38, "text": "She has called to be the wife." }, { "start": 2939.44, "end": 2955.86, "text": "just support him too further their mission that they are called two together and then in Genesis three she's given the name of Eve, the mother of all living a sign of the redemption and hope that though by Eve's actions death was brought into the world impart by Eve through her life new life will continue." }, { "start": 2957.78, "end": 2962.62, "text": "beautiful picture of Adam being called primarily to provide and to protect his wife." }, { "start": 2962.72, "end": 2967.78, "text": "And Eve call it be the battlemates or her husband, and to nurture their children and raise them up in The" }, { "start": 2967.86, "end": 2968.18, "text": "Lord.\"." }, { "start": 2968.76, "end": 2982.66, "text": "I see these as primary calling because this doesn't mean that Adam can play with the Children—in fact we actually love men who are more involved than any other generation we've had —and it does not mean he could literally never work outside home." }, { "start": 2982.96, "end": 2991.28, "text": "like there's so many arrangements for flexible working remote that actually make it possible to do things like this during white kids nap time, they're otherwise sleeping and I'm just here." }, { "start": 2991.82, "end": 2996.28, "text": "So It's not saying those are exclusionary roles but their primary visions were called too." }, { "start": 2996.36, "end": 3002.46, "text": "And its in the beauty of that give-and take That we really flourish as human beings rather than buying into them." }, { "start": 3002.56, "end": 3005.88, "text": "well We can do all these same things because Really?" }, { "start": 3006.56, "end": 3011.2, "text": "Its serving to cancel each other out and maybe undermine The greater vision the Lord has for you." }, { "start": 3012.84, "end": 3013.08, "text": "Amen!" }, { "start": 3013.12, "end": 3022.54, "text": "I agree with that If husbands & wives Christian husbands and wives would look at these things from the biblical perspective." }, { "start": 3022.58, "end": 3031.38, "text": "And, at minimum say if our primary goal is not just having children or raising them to know the Lord—to have a home." }, { "start": 3031.44, "end": 3039.86, "text": "that's conducive to my role as in the Home…that your role was in The Home...and this is our foundational location where the gospel spread out." }, { "start": 3042.34, "end": 3047.82, "text": "And then looking all of the choices we make and decision-making work, life, hobbies friends." }, { "start": 3047.98, "end": 3051.76, "text": "All of things even ministry like what are you doing outside the home?" }, { "start": 3052.66, "end": 3061.42, "text": "If any of those are undermining on a significant level Those primary thing they should be reconsidered They should thought through." }, { "start": 3062.28, "end": 3069.3, "text": "okay if I'm not gonna build to do this thing either This has got it before very short season or this can't happen at all." }, { "start": 3069.94, "end": 3083.52, "text": "And, and at least looking at all of our life choices from that perspective like well if these are the primary you know roles, primary goals, primary functions...and you know that this organization is not going to be undermined by anything outside it." }, { "start": 3084.38, "end": 3095.76, "text": "so I tell men all time don't sacrifice your marriage on the altar ministry because like in this past result over years have often sacrificed their homes for congregations." }, { "start": 3098.02, "end": 3099.14, "text": "give any permission for that at all." }, { "start": 3099.2, "end": 3101.26, "text": "Yeah, I don't think that's a reality." }, { "start": 3101.3, "end": 3101.34, "text": "And" }, { "start": 3101.38, "end": 3105.4, "text": "the calls we keep since we're faster and deacon are actually really clear that your family's flourishing is." }, { "start": 3106.44, "end": 3111.3, "text": "No, but this is so... But yes." }, { "start": 3111.4, "end": 3120.68, "text": "And it's just like my big push in the book as we need to be faithful to the season that Lord has put us into because those seasons are going change and they're gonna demand different things of us." }, { "start": 3121.32, "end": 3125.08, "text": "It also protects from all or nothing thinking where were like oh!" }, { "start": 3125.24, "end": 3128.82, "text": "To Be a Mother means My Life Is Over I'm never doing anything again." }, { "start": 3128.94, "end": 3139.78, "text": "You'll have young kids for five-six years you will have kids at home for eighteen-thirty And you have a really long life ahead of you and lots of different seasons to engage in things." }, { "start": 3140.38, "end": 3151.64, "text": "Yeah, I think just like it's such a healthy perspective to remember that the arc your life is long If you saccharate on the other hand, if your like oh well my kids are only young for a couple of years." }, { "start": 3151.7, "end": 3153.74, "text": "so it doesn't matter what I do then." }, { "start": 3153.8, "end": 3165.28, "text": "You've also looked at this the wrong way because you're missing This incredible time The Lord has set aside For you to deeply nurture and pour into them and raise Them as faithful children To provide those Children everything they need right?" }, { "start": 3165.34, "end": 3169.78, "text": "It's not just about Your fulfillment in What you want from life But is a mother And Is A father Its About?" }, { "start": 3169.82, "end": 3170.72, "text": "What Do Your Children Need?" }, { "start": 3170.78, "end": 3173.22, "text": "What Does The Church and Ministry Call Of You Right There?" }, { "start": 3173.32, "end": 3183.2, "text": "So Many Layers Of This but i think Just Keeping In Mind how short and how dynamic these seasons are, to invest in full faithfulness there so that we don't miss out on the blessings." }, { "start": 3183.66, "end": 3187.44, "text": "And the duties of those seasons—in the name of something out there that we want to pursue?" }, { "start": 3188.72, "end": 3202.4, "text": "Yeah I think the prevailing theme is all this —that we allow God to transform our way of thinking or being by renewing up our minds on things like letting God's word permeate change the way we think." }, { "start": 3203.58, "end": 3211.54, "text": "So it's not just a checklist of like, oh here is how I have be perfect mom because actually being a perfect mom and dad doesn't exist every day." }, { "start": 3212.26, "end": 3217.48, "text": "fill away to that but surrendering fully into what God's design." }, { "start": 3220.98, "end": 3224.82, "text": "Hey, I just want to thank you so much MF for being on the show." }, { "start": 3224.98, "end": 3230.3, "text": "Would you real quick let everyone know again where they can find your book what the name of it is and we'll put in the show notes as well?" }, { "start": 3230.4, "end": 3233.42, "text": "but um i know" }, { "start": 3233.92, "end": 3234.72, "text": "Yes, of course." }, { "start": 3234.9, "end": 3243.32, "text": "So my book is lead like JL seven timeless principles for today's women a faith by Emma waters and you can find that anywhere books are sold." }, { "start": 3243.4, "end": 3248.1, "text": "but I also have a website called rethinking fertility where i host a podcast." }, { "start": 3248.24, "end": 3254.38, "text": "I Have A Substack And Also This Book And Topics Related to Everything We've Discussed Are Plugged There As Well If You Want To Check It" }, { "start": 3254.44, "end": 3260.14, "text": "Out Which by the way, maybe we should schedule another podcast to talk about that because we didn't even get into that subject." }, { "start": 3260.94, "end": 3261.96, "text": "That's a big one." }, { "start": 3262.24, "end": 3263.0, "text": "love too there." }, { "start": 3263.18, "end": 3263.88, "text": "so much to say." }, { "start": 3263.94, "end": 3264.12, "text": "they're" }, { "start": 3265.16, "end": 3267.68, "text": "Emma God bless you and I just thank you so much And i'll let you go" }, { "start": 3268.36, "end": 3269.58, "text": "of course Thank You." } ]