[
  {
    "start": 0.166,
    "end": 4.754,
    "text": "There's always a lot of discussion\nabout is there a test for AGI?"
  },
  {
    "start": 4.754,
    "end": 5.839,
    "text": "There's no test for AGI."
  },
  {
    "start": 5.839,
    "end": 8.466,
    "text": "I don't think anyone has a\ntest that they can say, okay,"
  },
  {
    "start": 8.466,
    "end": 12.387,
    "text": "if you get this much on this test,\nthat means you are at AGI."
  },
  {
    "start": 12.387,
    "end": 13.263,
    "text": "And I don't think that is—"
  },
  {
    "start": 13.263,
    "end": 14.848,
    "text": "- If you do have that benchmark,\nsend it to us, please,"
  },
  {
    "start": 14.848,
    "end": 17.976,
    "text": "because we want to— we'll use it,\nwe'll run our models on it."
  },
  {
    "start": 24.399,
    "end": 26.067,
    "text": "Hey, everyone,\nwelcome back to Release Notes."
  },
  {
    "start": 26.067,
    "end": 27.193,
    "text": "My name is Logan Kilpatrick."
  },
  {
    "start": 27.193,
    "end": 28.57,
    "text": "I'm on the Google DeepMind team."
  },
  {
    "start": 28.57,
    "end": 30.947,
    "text": "Today we're joined by Koray Kavukcuoglu."
  },
  {
    "start": 30.947,
    "end": 32.741,
    "text": "Koray, I'm super excited\nfor this conversation."
  },
  {
    "start": 32.741,
    "end": 35.66,
    "text": "We sat down probably\nthree or four months ago,"
  },
  {
    "start": 35.66,
    "end": 37.537,
    "text": "and so I'm excited to catch up,"
  },
  {
    "start": 37.537,
    "end": 41.916,
    "text": "reflecting on a lot of the\nprogress that's been made over the last"
  },
  {
    "start": 41.916,
    "end": 45.128,
    "text": "few months, looking into the future,\nGemini 4 on the horizon."
  },
  {
    "start": 45.128,
    "end": 49.799,
    "text": "The third iteration of the 3.5,"
  },
  {
    "start": 49.799,
    "end": 55.18,
    "text": "post-3.5 series,\nlots of progress in literally only three weeks."
  },
  {
    "start": 55.18,
    "end": 59.476,
    "text": "We launched 3.5 at I/O, 3.6,\nand then three weeks later landed 3.7."
  },
  {
    "start": 59.476,
    "end": 61.394,
    "text": "Reception has been super positive."
  },
  {
    "start": 61.394,
    "end": 62.52,
    "text": "Congrats to you and the team."
  },
  {
    "start": 62.52,
    "end": 64.689,
    "text": "Yeah, it's been positive.\nDo you want to— I don't know if there's"
  },
  {
    "start": 64.689,
    "end": 67.275,
    "text": "anything you want to say\nabout what made that model."
  },
  {
    "start": 67.275,
    "end": 70.653,
    "text": "We teased a little bit of"
  },
  {
    "start": 70.653,
    "end": 73.615,
    "text": "architectural innovation\nor something like that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 73.615,
    "end": 76.117,
    "text": "which I'm not sure we'll spill the beans on,\nbut—"
  },
  {
    "start": 76.117,
    "end": 76.701,
    "text": "- Not really."
  },
  {
    "start": 76.701,
    "end": 77.535,
    "text": "- Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 77.535,
    "end": 81.456,
    "text": "- Going from the initial 3.0 launch,"
  },
  {
    "start": 81.456,
    "end": 84.334,
    "text": "my reflection is we\nlearned a lot in terms of"
  },
  {
    "start": 84.334,
    "end": 88.213,
    "text": "understanding what it means to do\ncoding and not just coding, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 88.213,
    "end": 91.549,
    "text": "Like what it means to do software engineering,\nwhat it means to"
  },
  {
    "start": 91.549,
    "end": 95.386,
    "text": "work with tools or work with the\nfunctions that people use every day."
  },
  {
    "start": 95.386,
    "end": 97.347,
    "text": "Basically,\nturn this whole thing into an agent,"
  },
  {
    "start": 97.347,
    "end": 99.099,
    "text": "from a model to an agent."
  },
  {
    "start": 99.099,
    "end": 104.646,
    "text": "And that transition,\nI think we were walking around it,"
  },
  {
    "start": 104.646,
    "end": 107.607,
    "text": "and that was the thing that\nwe wanted to directly tackle."
  },
  {
    "start": 107.607,
    "end": 110.902,
    "text": "And of course,\nsoftware engineering is the most critical domain"
  },
  {
    "start": 110.902,
    "end": 114.197,
    "text": "and environment that you want\nyour systems to be successful at,"
  },
  {
    "start": 114.197,
    "end": 118.118,
    "text": "because it's at the root of many\ndifferent things that you can do."
  },
  {
    "start": 118.118,
    "end": 121.412,
    "text": "During that time,\nwe learned a lot in terms of how to"
  },
  {
    "start": 121.412,
    "end": 123.832,
    "text": "train a model, how to train an agent"
  },
  {
    "start": 123.832,
    "end": 126.126,
    "text": "that can actually code with you."
  },
  {
    "start": 126.126,
    "end": 126.793,
    "text": "And after that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 126.793,
    "end": 129.921,
    "text": "I think the steps have\nstarted becoming faster."
  },
  {
    "start": 129.921,
    "end": 131.84,
    "text": "And in any research project,"
  },
  {
    "start": 131.84,
    "end": 135.593,
    "text": "there are many parallel tracks\nthat is going on at the same time too."
  },
  {
    "start": 135.593,
    "end": 139.722,
    "text": "So, what we are trying to do right\nnow is combine all these learnings,"
  },
  {
    "start": 139.722,
    "end": 144.602,
    "text": "of course, add on top of them,\nunderstand, what it means to do"
  },
  {
    "start": 144.602,
    "end": 149.983,
    "text": "agentic actions and agentic workflows\nbetter together with new architectural"
  },
  {
    "start": 149.983,
    "end": 151.818,
    "text": "improvements, together with new ideas"
  },
  {
    "start": 151.818,
    "end": 154.237,
    "text": "that we have been\nworking on for a while."
  },
  {
    "start": 154.237,
    "end": 159.701,
    "text": "Many of these things that we have done in 3.6,\n3.7 go back like a year or more,"
  },
  {
    "start": 159.701,
    "end": 164.497,
    "text": "and then those start paying off\nand you converge them into the model."
  },
  {
    "start": 164.497,
    "end": 168.126,
    "text": "And it's great to see the\nquality impact that we got from that."
  },
  {
    "start": 168.126,
    "end": 171.087,
    "text": "We were very excited,\nin the run-up to 3.7,"
  },
  {
    "start": 171.087,
    "end": 174.132,
    "text": "when we were doing 3.6,\nof course, we could see"
  },
  {
    "start": 174.132,
    "end": 178.469,
    "text": "we could see what 3.7 could be\nor what the next step could be."
  },
  {
    "start": 178.469,
    "end": 179.888,
    "text": "And then it came together."
  },
  {
    "start": 179.888,
    "end": 183.433,
    "text": "And internally we started\nenjoying that model a lot."
  },
  {
    "start": 183.433,
    "end": 187.061,
    "text": "So that's the parallel track effect\nthat you are going, that you are seeing."
  },
  {
    "start": 187.061,
    "end": 188.354,
    "text": "- There's a lot of parallel tracks."
  },
  {
    "start": 188.354,
    "end": 190.565,
    "text": "I don't know if we've done this in the past,\nbut a few weeks ago"
  },
  {
    "start": 190.565,
    "end": 194.194,
    "text": "we publicly said that Gemini 4,\nwe're working on it."
  },
  {
    "start": 194.194,
    "end": 196.529,
    "text": "It's the most ambitious pre-training run"
  },
  {
    "start": 196.529,
    "end": 199.199,
    "text": "that we've done so far,\nwhich is really exciting."
  },
  {
    "start": 199.199,
    "end": 200.366,
    "text": "People seem excited by it."
  },
  {
    "start": 200.366,
    "end": 201.993,
    "text": "I think folks are excited internally."
  },
  {
    "start": 201.993,
    "end": 204.746,
    "text": "Lots of research going into this."
  },
  {
    "start": 204.746,
    "end": 208.166,
    "text": "Yeah, I'm curious,\nthis has historically been one of our"
  },
  {
    "start": 208.166,
    "end": 210.001,
    "text": "strengths and the team,"
  },
  {
    "start": 210.001,
    "end": 212.712,
    "text": "seems incredible and\nthey've always done a great job."
  },
  {
    "start": 212.712,
    "end": 214.464,
    "text": "And so I don't know if there's anything"
  },
  {
    "start": 214.464,
    "end": 216.758,
    "text": "top of mind or anything\nmore you want to say about that."
  },
  {
    "start": 216.758,
    "end": 219.719,
    "text": "Yes, it's the most\nambitious run, correct."
  },
  {
    "start": 219.719,
    "end": 224.224,
    "text": "And yes, so far,\ntouch wood, it's going well."
  },
  {
    "start": 224.224,
    "end": 225.266,
    "text": "I am very excited."
  },
  {
    "start": 225.266,
    "end": 227.352,
    "text": "The team is very excited."
  },
  {
    "start": 227.352,
    "end": 230.48,
    "text": "I look at these as step by step, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 230.48,
    "end": 232.732,
    "text": "So, far, everything is looking good."
  },
  {
    "start": 232.732,
    "end": 233.775,
    "text": "We are excited."
  },
  {
    "start": 233.775,
    "end": 236.861,
    "text": "But it's all about\nrealizing that potential"
  },
  {
    "start": 236.861,
    "end": 240.573,
    "text": "until we get to a moment\nthat we are actually putting the"
  },
  {
    "start": 240.573,
    "end": 244.827,
    "text": "model in front of users,\nfirst internally, then externally."
  },
  {
    "start": 244.827,
    "end": 248.373,
    "text": "I'm always in a very\ncautiously optimistic state."
  },
  {
    "start": 248.373,
    "end": 251.626,
    "text": "- I think maybe to tee you\nup for a very specific question"
  },
  {
    "start": 251.626,
    "end": 256.297,
    "text": "there's a meme about whether or not\nwe care about being at the frontier."
  },
  {
    "start": 256.297,
    "end": 260.134,
    "text": "I see you in meetings all the time\nand know what your point of view is"
  },
  {
    "start": 260.134,
    "end": 262.637,
    "text": "but what's your point of\nview as far as whether or not,"
  },
  {
    "start": 262.637,
    "end": 263.137,
    "text": "you know, you think"
  },
  {
    "start": 263.137,
    "end": 268.977,
    "text": "it's important for us as Google DeepMind and as a\nteam to trying to be at the frontier?"
  },
  {
    "start": 268.977,
    "end": 269.686,
    "text": "- I was surprised."
  },
  {
    "start": 269.686,
    "end": 273.564,
    "text": "I've seen these comments too,\nand I can understand obviously"
  },
  {
    "start": 273.564,
    "end": 278.403,
    "text": "our quality of current models\nare a little bit below the frontier."
  },
  {
    "start": 278.403,
    "end": 280.405,
    "text": "- Yeah.\n- And that's fair enough."
  },
  {
    "start": 280.405,
    "end": 283.783,
    "text": "To put it very bluntly, there's nothing"
  },
  {
    "start": 283.783,
    "end": 286.911,
    "text": "other than being at the\nfrontier that is important for us."
  },
  {
    "start": 286.911,
    "end": 288.204,
    "text": "Yeah, that's it."
  },
  {
    "start": 288.204,
    "end": 291.249,
    "text": "All our goals,\nall our focus is always about that."
  },
  {
    "start": 291.249,
    "end": 295.003,
    "text": "And when we are making decisions,\nwhen we are making prioritizations"
  },
  {
    "start": 295.003,
    "end": 300.091,
    "text": "in terms of ideas, in terms of what\nto do and what goals we should follow,"
  },
  {
    "start": 300.091,
    "end": 301.968,
    "text": "it's all about being at the frontier,"
  },
  {
    "start": 301.968,
    "end": 307.14,
    "text": "and I'm 100% certain that,\nwe will be at the frontier."
  },
  {
    "start": 307.14,
    "end": 309.434,
    "text": "We have an amazing team."
  },
  {
    "start": 309.434,
    "end": 311.352,
    "text": "I have so much trust in the team."
  },
  {
    "start": 311.352,
    "end": 316.733,
    "text": "There is a great amount of\ncreativity and dedication in the team,"
  },
  {
    "start": 316.733,
    "end": 323.573,
    "text": "and being part of Google,\nwe have amazing resources available to us."
  },
  {
    "start": 323.573,
    "end": 327.035,
    "text": "We have the whole full\nstack that we can and we are"
  },
  {
    "start": 327.035,
    "end": 332.04,
    "text": "able to optimize to be\nable to achieve our goals."
  },
  {
    "start": 332.04,
    "end": 336.794,
    "text": "If you think about Google as a company,"
  },
  {
    "start": 336.794,
    "end": 338.296,
    "text": "it is a company that has always"
  },
  {
    "start": 338.296,
    "end": 342.759,
    "text": "been at the frontier of\ninvesting in the next big technology."
  },
  {
    "start": 342.759,
    "end": 350.558,
    "text": "It has never shied from investing in\na long-term important project, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 350.558,
    "end": 355.688,
    "text": "AI investment in Google has been not\nthe last five years or ten years, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 355.688,
    "end": 359.525,
    "text": "Fifteen years ago when there was no AI,\nGoogle was investing in AI chips."
  },
  {
    "start": 359.525,
    "end": 360.068,
    "text": "- Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 360.068,
    "end": 363.404,
    "text": "- Not chips only, the AI chips."
  },
  {
    "start": 363.404,
    "end": 366.157,
    "text": "We were not even\ntalking about AI at the time."
  },
  {
    "start": 366.157,
    "end": 369.16,
    "text": "So, that kind of long-term\nvision and investment"
  },
  {
    "start": 369.16,
    "end": 370.787,
    "text": "has always been part of Google,"
  },
  {
    "start": 370.787,
    "end": 372.372,
    "text": "like the quantum computing, Waymo."
  },
  {
    "start": 372.372,
    "end": 378.086,
    "text": "We talk about these things as if it's normal,\nbut these are very,"
  },
  {
    "start": 378.086,
    "end": 383.591,
    "text": "technologically critical and heavily\nscientific and long-term ambitious"
  },
  {
    "start": 383.591,
    "end": 385.927,
    "text": "endeavors that it's\nin the DNA of Google."
  },
  {
    "start": 385.927,
    "end": 389.597,
    "text": "So, that's why I feel\nI have the whole trust"
  },
  {
    "start": 389.597,
    "end": 392.266,
    "text": "for us to be able to\nachieve that frontier."
  },
  {
    "start": 392.266,
    "end": 394.727,
    "text": "That's all our goal.\nThat's why we were set up."
  },
  {
    "start": 394.727,
    "end": 396.729,
    "text": "That's what the whole team feels."
  },
  {
    "start": 396.729,
    "end": 398.523,
    "text": "Yeah, there's nothing less than that."
  },
  {
    "start": 398.523,
    "end": 402.735,
    "text": "- I love that. And I think in this role now,\nthat you have leading all of Google DeepMind,"
  },
  {
    "start": 402.735,
    "end": 406.114,
    "text": "the frontier AI folks,\nwe actually have a frontier AI team,"
  },
  {
    "start": 406.114,
    "end": 408.991,
    "text": "and the products and other\nstuff are now part of this story."
  },
  {
    "start": 408.991,
    "end": 412.62,
    "text": "And I'm curious— is there\nanything from this framing of like"
  },
  {
    "start": 412.62,
    "end": 416.958,
    "text": "the frontier is what\nwe're focused on that you're"
  },
  {
    "start": 416.958,
    "end": 419.252,
    "text": "excited now that we're\nbringing these teams together?"
  },
  {
    "start": 419.252,
    "end": 421.462,
    "text": "I know there'll be a lot of\nbusiness as usual for a lot of folks,"
  },
  {
    "start": 421.462,
    "end": 425.716,
    "text": "but anything particularly\nthat you're excited about?"
  },
  {
    "start": 425.716,
    "end": 429.137,
    "text": "- Gemini, of course,\nis very much focused on"
  },
  {
    "start": 429.137,
    "end": 431.556,
    "text": "building AGI and delivering the goals."
  },
  {
    "start": 431.556,
    "end": 433.307,
    "text": "At the end of the day,\nit relies on two things."
  },
  {
    "start": 433.307,
    "end": 435.351,
    "text": "One, good execution, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 435.351,
    "end": 436.352,
    "text": "It's very detailed."
  },
  {
    "start": 436.352,
    "end": 437.77,
    "text": "It's very complex."
  },
  {
    "start": 437.77,
    "end": 439.23,
    "text": "To build AGI, something that you"
  },
  {
    "start": 439.23,
    "end": 442.733,
    "text": "can put in front of\npeople that they can work with."
  },
  {
    "start": 442.733,
    "end": 445.945,
    "text": "But also at the same time,\nit relies on a very large"
  },
  {
    "start": 445.945,
    "end": 448.865,
    "text": "funnel to get ideas from everywhere."
  },
  {
    "start": 448.865,
    "end": 454.871,
    "text": "So by bringing together Google DeepMind this way,\nwhat I'm excited about is, as you said,"
  },
  {
    "start": 454.871,
    "end": 458.875,
    "text": "there's the frontier AI,\nthere's the products to be able to really"
  },
  {
    "start": 458.875,
    "end": 461.544,
    "text": "orient and steer at least the idea,"
  },
  {
    "start": 461.544,
    "end": 464.672,
    "text": "the knowledge and\nthe focus towards this."
  },
  {
    "start": 464.672,
    "end": 466.799,
    "text": "You don't want to\ncontinuously streamline"
  },
  {
    "start": 466.799,
    "end": 470.678,
    "text": "everything on one because the\nidea is at the end exploration."
  },
  {
    "start": 470.678,
    "end": 472.305,
    "text": "Success"
  },
  {
    "start": 472.305,
    "end": 476.392,
    "text": "in building AGI still depends\non innovation and exploration"
  },
  {
    "start": 476.392,
    "end": 480.188,
    "text": "and channeling that in\nthe right way through Gemini."
  },
  {
    "start": 480.188,
    "end": 482.69,
    "text": "I'm excited about\nbeing able to do that more."
  },
  {
    "start": 482.69,
    "end": 484.525,
    "text": "The path to building AGI then,"
  },
  {
    "start": 484.525,
    "end": 490.323,
    "text": "really depends on our\ninteraction with the users."
  },
  {
    "start": 490.323,
    "end": 492.366,
    "text": "And when we say users, yes,"
  },
  {
    "start": 492.366,
    "end": 494.452,
    "text": "some people are using\nthese models in their daily lives"
  },
  {
    "start": 494.452,
    "end": 498.372,
    "text": "to go through their emails,\nbut some scientists are using"
  },
  {
    "start": 498.372,
    "end": 502.71,
    "text": "these models to be better scientists\nto do actual research to invent things"
  },
  {
    "start": 502.71,
    "end": 506.339,
    "text": "that has never been invented\nand getting help from the models."
  },
  {
    "start": 506.339,
    "end": 510.676,
    "text": "So, the spectrum of\nusage of these models"
  },
  {
    "start": 510.676,
    "end": 513.721,
    "text": "covers everything that\nis happening in the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 513.721,
    "end": 517.058,
    "text": "So that usage"
  },
  {
    "start": 517.058,
    "end": 518.684,
    "text": "is our guide, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 518.684,
    "end": 522.438,
    "text": "That tells us what are the\nproblems that are worth solving,"
  },
  {
    "start": 522.438,
    "end": 525.691,
    "text": "that people want us to solve,\nand we need to solve those problems."
  },
  {
    "start": 525.691,
    "end": 527.276,
    "text": "And that leads us towards AGI."
  },
  {
    "start": 527.276,
    "end": 531.113,
    "text": "That's how we have something\ngeneral that people like interacting with,"
  },
  {
    "start": 531.113,
    "end": 533.449,
    "text": "that people rely on, that people trust."
  },
  {
    "start": 533.449,
    "end": 536.911,
    "text": "- Yeah, I think last time we\nwere talking you had mentioned"
  },
  {
    "start": 536.911,
    "end": 540.039,
    "text": "this co-building AGI\nwith our customers framing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 540.039,
    "end": 542.458,
    "text": "which I think has just continued\nto like it makes so much sense."
  },
  {
    "start": 542.458,
    "end": 546.546,
    "text": "It resonates. I think it makes it clear why"
  },
  {
    "start": 546.546,
    "end": 548.214,
    "text": "the deployment matters so much,"
  },
  {
    "start": 548.214,
    "end": 550.8,
    "text": "why this feedback\nflywheel matters so much."
  },
  {
    "start": 550.8,
    "end": 555.388,
    "text": "- There's always a lot of discussion\nabout is there a test for AGI?"
  },
  {
    "start": 555.388,
    "end": 556.639,
    "text": "There's no test for AGI."
  },
  {
    "start": 556.639,
    "end": 559.225,
    "text": "I don't anyone has a\ntest that they can say, okay,"
  },
  {
    "start": 559.225,
    "end": 563.145,
    "text": "if you get this much on this test,\nthat means you are at AGI."
  },
  {
    "start": 563.145,
    "end": 565.106,
    "text": "- And I don't think that is— if\nyou do have that benchmark,"
  },
  {
    "start": 565.106,
    "end": 569.235,
    "text": "send it to us please, because we'll use it,\nwe'll run our models on it."
  },
  {
    "start": 569.235,
    "end": 569.902,
    "text": "- All right."
  },
  {
    "start": 569.902,
    "end": 573.322,
    "text": "When you look at the history of AI,\nhistory of machine learning,"
  },
  {
    "start": 573.322,
    "end": 574.74,
    "text": "it has always been like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 574.74,
    "end": 576.409,
    "text": "It's the progress."
  },
  {
    "start": 576.409,
    "end": 579.328,
    "text": "It's the journey that\nmakes the difference, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 579.328,
    "end": 582.832,
    "text": "Go back like fifteen years ago,\nlike twenty years ago"
  },
  {
    "start": 582.832,
    "end": 587.503,
    "text": "or even more, there was always some notion,\nsome concept of"
  },
  {
    "start": 587.503,
    "end": 589.297,
    "text": "if we achieve these kinds of tasks,"
  },
  {
    "start": 589.297,
    "end": 592.049,
    "text": "that means that is\nthe true intelligence."
  },
  {
    "start": 592.049,
    "end": 596.804,
    "text": "And at every time period,\neach and every one of those"
  },
  {
    "start": 596.804,
    "end": 600.057,
    "text": "were the legitimate targets\nto follow up on at that point."
  },
  {
    "start": 600.057,
    "end": 603.352,
    "text": "And that's what leads to this kind of\nprogress that is happening."
  },
  {
    "start": 603.352,
    "end": 605.229,
    "text": "And that's the\nprogress in itself, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 605.229,
    "end": 609.692,
    "text": "Picking the next goals is\nalso a big part of that progress."
  },
  {
    "start": 609.692,
    "end": 611.861,
    "text": "And that's what we are doing, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 611.861,
    "end": 615.698,
    "text": "And you can see that the intelligence,\nfrom the very early days of AI"
  },
  {
    "start": 615.698,
    "end": 618.701,
    "text": "being very narrow to\nnow it's becoming very general."
  },
  {
    "start": 618.701,
    "end": 621.078,
    "text": "The goals that we are\npicking are very general goals."
  },
  {
    "start": 621.078,
    "end": 624.373,
    "text": "That's why we are\nbuilding general intelligence."
  },
  {
    "start": 624.373,
    "end": 626.709,
    "text": "And I think it's going to continue like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 626.709,
    "end": 630.087,
    "text": "You go back twenty years ago,\nyou look at what we are doing right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 630.087,
    "end": 634.05,
    "text": "It like, okay,\nmaybe AI, it's already there."
  },
  {
    "start": 634.05,
    "end": 637.219,
    "text": "Like, what people were thinking\ntwenty years ago in terms of what"
  },
  {
    "start": 637.219,
    "end": 639.805,
    "text": "the goals was a lot\nof things are achieved."
  },
  {
    "start": 639.805,
    "end": 640.264,
    "text": "- Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 640.264,
    "end": 643.309,
    "text": "- But I think the more important\nthing is, at the end of the day,"
  },
  {
    "start": 643.309,
    "end": 648.272,
    "text": "building an intelligent entity that you can trust,\nthat you can work with."
  },
  {
    "start": 648.272,
    "end": 650.066,
    "text": "And if we can get there,"
  },
  {
    "start": 650.066,
    "end": 654.07,
    "text": "and I don't think that there is\na sudden threshold of that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 654.07,
    "end": 657.99,
    "text": "it's more of a building up that trust\nand getting better and better at that."
  },
  {
    "start": 657.99,
    "end": 660.534,
    "text": "- Yeah, I'm with you.\nYou mentioned twenty years ago,"
  },
  {
    "start": 660.534,
    "end": 662.244,
    "text": "I want to go twenty years back."
  },
  {
    "start": 662.244,
    "end": 665.122,
    "text": "I don't know,\nmaybe not twenty years back exactly,"
  },
  {
    "start": 665.122,
    "end": 669.835,
    "text": "but you were Google DeepMind's first\ndeep learning researcher, which is very interesting."
  },
  {
    "start": 669.835,
    "end": 671.295,
    "text": "And I want to double-click on that."
  },
  {
    "start": 671.295,
    "end": 674.674,
    "text": "You were at Yann's lab\nwith a bunch of other folks."
  },
  {
    "start": 674.674,
    "end": 677.385,
    "text": "The deep learning community\nwas quite small at that time."
  },
  {
    "start": 677.385,
    "end": 678.427,
    "text": "Previous iterations,"
  },
  {
    "start": 678.427,
    "end": 681.514,
    "text": "DeepMind CTO leading a\nbunch of technical efforts."
  },
  {
    "start": 681.514,
    "end": 684.684,
    "text": "The story that you were\ntelling about how during the"
  },
  {
    "start": 684.684,
    "end": 687.853,
    "text": "Google DeepMind due diligence process,\nJeff was asking you questions about"
  },
  {
    "start": 687.853,
    "end": 692.566,
    "text": "random places in the Google DeepMind codebase\nbecause you literally reviewed all of the code."
  },
  {
    "start": 692.566,
    "end": 695.528,
    "text": "You had to,\nyou had to be the one to explain random things,"
  },
  {
    "start": 695.528,
    "end": 697.53,
    "text": "which seems like a crazy problem"
  },
  {
    "start": 697.53,
    "end": 699.824,
    "text": "now in today's world\nwhere AI helps us do that."
  },
  {
    "start": 699.824,
    "end": 703.327,
    "text": "You've been at the helm\nand pushing on the frontier"
  },
  {
    "start": 703.327,
    "end": 705.746,
    "text": "now for a long time\nspecifically inside of Google DeepMind,"
  },
  {
    "start": 705.746,
    "end": 709.709,
    "text": "before Google DeepMind.\nAnd so much of the world has changed."
  },
  {
    "start": 709.709,
    "end": 713.921,
    "text": "I'm curious if you want to\nreflect back on any of those moments,"
  },
  {
    "start": 713.921,
    "end": 715.84,
    "text": "any of the papers or technical breakthroughs,\nobviously,"
  },
  {
    "start": 715.84,
    "end": 719.552,
    "text": "Google DeepMind has done so much that\nstand out to you as you think back."
  },
  {
    "start": 719.552,
    "end": 720.761,
    "text": "- First, of all, thank you very much."
  },
  {
    "start": 720.761,
    "end": 724.056,
    "text": "Yes, I'm old."
  },
  {
    "start": 724.056,
    "end": 728.06,
    "text": "I think the journey in\nGoogle DeepMind has been very exciting."
  },
  {
    "start": 728.06,
    "end": 730.146,
    "text": "There was a time at\nwhich me and Karol Gregor,"
  },
  {
    "start": 730.146,
    "end": 732.815,
    "text": "we were at Yann's lab,\nwe joined Google DeepMind at the same time."
  },
  {
    "start": 732.815,
    "end": 735.693,
    "text": "I started the deep learning\nteam and it grew from there."
  },
  {
    "start": 735.693,
    "end": 739.363,
    "text": "There was no big plan about how\nall this was going to happen."
  },
  {
    "start": 739.363,
    "end": 741.741,
    "text": "- And just to clarify,\nother folks were just doing,"
  },
  {
    "start": 741.741,
    "end": 744.118,
    "text": "they were not doing deep learning,\nthey were doing like what?"
  },
  {
    "start": 744.118,
    "end": 746.036,
    "text": "Like just like RL stuff?"
  },
  {
    "start": 746.036,
    "end": 747.955,
    "text": "- I think when you're in a startup,"
  },
  {
    "start": 747.955,
    "end": 750.75,
    "text": "when you are doing research,\neveryone does everything, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 750.75,
    "end": 753.711,
    "text": "There were like three,\nfour deep learning labs at the time."
  },
  {
    "start": 753.711,
    "end": 756.213,
    "text": "Bringing that deep learning background"
  },
  {
    "start": 756.213,
    "end": 760.301,
    "text": "together with Karol into DeepMind,\nit was an amazing environment."
  },
  {
    "start": 760.301,
    "end": 762.845,
    "text": "I remember,\nI think in research there were"
  },
  {
    "start": 762.845,
    "end": 768.768,
    "text": "ten, twelve people in research and everyone\nis working on some really interesting idea"
  },
  {
    "start": 768.768,
    "end": 773.314,
    "text": "from their own background,\nlike a really interesting group of people."
  },
  {
    "start": 773.314,
    "end": 775.816,
    "text": "At some point there was a discussion of,"
  },
  {
    "start": 775.816,
    "end": 778.861,
    "text": "okay, let's pick an\nambitious task that we can corral"
  },
  {
    "start": 778.861,
    "end": 783.949,
    "text": "the whole research team around and\ntry to show progress on that task."
  },
  {
    "start": 783.949,
    "end": 785.993,
    "text": "And that's how Atari started,"
  },
  {
    "start": 785.993,
    "end": 789.497,
    "text": "the Atari games and\ntrying to train an agent that"
  },
  {
    "start": 789.497,
    "end": 791.582,
    "text": "can learn by itself"
  },
  {
    "start": 791.582,
    "end": 794.502,
    "text": "playing those games and\nbeing successful in those games."
  },
  {
    "start": 794.502,
    "end": 798.38,
    "text": "It was an internal project because Atari\nat the time, there were RL researchers"
  },
  {
    "start": 798.38,
    "end": 802.301,
    "text": "who were thinking that this can be a\ngood environment to measure success."
  },
  {
    "start": 802.301,
    "end": 806.013,
    "text": "That was the first example\nof: we are known for these focus"
  },
  {
    "start": 806.013,
    "end": 810.643,
    "text": "projects in DeepMind and we carry that\nover to now Google DeepMind as well, that we bring"
  },
  {
    "start": 810.643,
    "end": 814.271,
    "text": "a diverse group of\nresearchers and engineers together"
  },
  {
    "start": 814.271,
    "end": 815.856,
    "text": "to solve a hard problem."
  },
  {
    "start": 815.856,
    "end": 818.275,
    "text": "That was the first\nexample of where we did that."
  },
  {
    "start": 818.275,
    "end": 821.153,
    "text": "A large group of researchers\nthat came together every week"
  },
  {
    "start": 821.153,
    "end": 824.448,
    "text": "we would measure progress\nand that's what led to DQN."
  },
  {
    "start": 824.448,
    "end": 828.786,
    "text": "That's the first example of how\ndeep learning and RL could come together"
  },
  {
    "start": 828.786,
    "end": 834.208,
    "text": "and create a successful agent that\ncan learn to achieve a task by itself."
  },
  {
    "start": 834.208,
    "end": 838.17,
    "text": "I think it convinced me and\nit convinced many people"
  },
  {
    "start": 838.17,
    "end": 839.797,
    "text": "this is actually possible."
  },
  {
    "start": 839.797,
    "end": 843.217,
    "text": "That one, games are the\nright environment that you"
  },
  {
    "start": 843.217,
    "end": 847.346,
    "text": "can actually study\nintelligence and it can scale."
  },
  {
    "start": 847.346,
    "end": 850.891,
    "text": "And two, at the time,\ndeep learning was already"
  },
  {
    "start": 850.891,
    "end": 854.228,
    "text": "very popular, deep learning\nand RL together"
  },
  {
    "start": 854.228,
    "end": 859.483,
    "text": "is the basis of the recipe\nfor building intelligent agents."
  },
  {
    "start": 859.483,
    "end": 862.736,
    "text": "It opened that door."
  },
  {
    "start": 862.736,
    "end": 864.238,
    "text": "- Was it that obvious?"
  },
  {
    "start": 864.238,
    "end": 865.322,
    "text": "It's more obvious in hindsight,"
  },
  {
    "start": 865.322,
    "end": 867.825,
    "text": "but like it really felt\nlike the path was lit then,"
  },
  {
    "start": 867.825,
    "end": 870.87,
    "text": "or at least there was a sliver of\nlight at the end of the tunnel perhaps?"
  },
  {
    "start": 870.87,
    "end": 873.205,
    "text": "- I'm very cautious about these things."
  },
  {
    "start": 873.205,
    "end": 876.709,
    "text": "I'm not sure about the path that\nwas lit but we all felt like it was"
  },
  {
    "start": 876.709,
    "end": 878.752,
    "text": "an important moment because"
  },
  {
    "start": 878.752,
    "end": 882.506,
    "text": "it gave us confidence\nthat we should continue."
  },
  {
    "start": 882.506,
    "end": 885.843,
    "text": "When you look at the history of DeepMind,\nhistory of Google DeepMind,"
  },
  {
    "start": 885.843,
    "end": 889.555,
    "text": "bigger and bigger goals have been\nachieved in this trajectory, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 889.555,
    "end": 891.807,
    "text": "Like DQN was the first step and then"
  },
  {
    "start": 891.807,
    "end": 895.144,
    "text": "every step after that was\nbigger and bigger and bigger, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 895.144,
    "end": 899.648,
    "text": "Like Go, Chess,\nbeing able to do those from scratch,"
  },
  {
    "start": 899.648,
    "end": 904.904,
    "text": "and then using that knowledge for AlphaFold—\nall sorts of things, StarCraft."
  },
  {
    "start": 904.904,
    "end": 907.489,
    "text": "More and more we\nstarted building these agents."
  },
  {
    "start": 907.489,
    "end": 908.782,
    "text": "That was very exciting."
  },
  {
    "start": 908.782,
    "end": 909.199,
    "text": "- Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 909.199,
    "end": 912.369,
    "text": "I want to talk about agent stuff,\nbut I'm actually curious"
  },
  {
    "start": 912.369,
    "end": 918.751,
    "text": "if you contrast maybe some\nof the stuff that was happening"
  },
  {
    "start": 918.751,
    "end": 920.544,
    "text": "back then to some of the\nstuff that's happening now."
  },
  {
    "start": 920.544,
    "end": 924.173,
    "text": "And one example of this is\nyou mentioned this before about"
  },
  {
    "start": 924.173,
    "end": 927.343,
    "text": "a lot of these ideas were\npurely in the research domain"
  },
  {
    "start": 927.343,
    "end": 930.012,
    "text": "and it was, “Can you actually prove\nthat this thing is possible?”"
  },
  {
    "start": 930.012,
    "end": 932.64,
    "text": "And it feels like there's\nbeen at least some transition to"
  },
  {
    "start": 932.64,
    "end": 934.099,
    "text": "we know a lot of it's possible."
  },
  {
    "start": 934.099,
    "end": 936.018,
    "text": "We have some amount of the recipe."
  },
  {
    "start": 936.018,
    "end": 939.772,
    "text": "It's really just a lot of\nreally difficult research"
  },
  {
    "start": 939.772,
    "end": 942.816,
    "text": "engineering work to\nactually bring the thing to life."
  },
  {
    "start": 942.816,
    "end": 946.654,
    "text": "And so, I'm curious if\nyou want to talk about"
  },
  {
    "start": 946.654,
    "end": 949.907,
    "text": "actually bringing the\nstuff to life now and how"
  },
  {
    "start": 949.907,
    "end": 951.2,
    "text": "does it feel super different?"
  },
  {
    "start": 951.2,
    "end": 952.868,
    "text": "- It does feel different."
  },
  {
    "start": 952.868,
    "end": 957.831,
    "text": "It's also the same in a strange\nway because we are still doing RL,"
  },
  {
    "start": 957.831,
    "end": 960.584,
    "text": "we are still doing deep learning,\nwe are still pre-training"
  },
  {
    "start": 960.584,
    "end": 965.547,
    "text": "these models with very similar loss\nfunctions to what we used to do before."
  },
  {
    "start": 965.547,
    "end": 969.802,
    "text": "We are still doing RL pretty\nmuch using similar RL algorithms."
  },
  {
    "start": 969.802,
    "end": 972.012,
    "text": "The fundamentals of\nlearning did not change."
  },
  {
    "start": 972.012,
    "end": 975.265,
    "text": "The fundamentals of\noptimization did not change,"
  },
  {
    "start": 975.265,
    "end": 979.144,
    "text": "but the domains kept\ngetting harder, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 979.144,
    "end": 983.565,
    "text": "Just as from Atari to\nchess to go to StarCraft,"
  },
  {
    "start": 983.565,
    "end": 985.067,
    "text": "the domains kept getting harder."
  },
  {
    "start": 985.067,
    "end": 988.445,
    "text": "And the way they get harder is\nin real life you have ambiguity,"
  },
  {
    "start": 988.445,
    "end": 991.281,
    "text": "you have depth.\nYou have depth of ambiguity."
  },
  {
    "start": 991.281,
    "end": 993.993,
    "text": "That's the biggest change that you\nneed to be able to deal with that."
  },
  {
    "start": 993.993,
    "end": 1000.749,
    "text": "Language in itself is much richer,\nmuch complex, much more multi-domain,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1000.749,
    "end": 1005.629,
    "text": "multifaceted than any constrained\naction space that you can work with."
  },
  {
    "start": 1005.629,
    "end": 1007.965,
    "text": "So, of course, like things became"
  },
  {
    "start": 1007.965,
    "end": 1010.592,
    "text": "a lot more complex,\na lot more larger scale."
  },
  {
    "start": 1010.592,
    "end": 1012.636,
    "text": "Like the basics of it is still the same."
  },
  {
    "start": 1012.636,
    "end": 1013.262,
    "text": "- Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1013.262,
    "end": 1017.182,
    "text": "- But also at the same time,\nthere's a lot more room"
  },
  {
    "start": 1017.182,
    "end": 1020.894,
    "text": "to extract the information\nand be successful in this domain."
  },
  {
    "start": 1020.894,
    "end": 1023.605,
    "text": "But everything is a lot more open-ended,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1023.605,
    "end": 1025.774,
    "text": "a lot more open to interpretation,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1025.774,
    "end": 1027.067,
    "text": "and that requires a lot"
  },
  {
    "start": 1027.067,
    "end": 1029.695,
    "text": "more intelligence to be\nable to deal with that to"
  },
  {
    "start": 1029.695,
    "end": 1032.99,
    "text": "anticipate what someone\nis saying for the model"
  },
  {
    "start": 1032.99,
    "end": 1037.619,
    "text": "to be able to partner with that\nperson or to respond to that person."
  },
  {
    "start": 1037.619,
    "end": 1040.497,
    "text": "- Yeah, I want to talk\nabout the future and stuff,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1040.497,
    "end": 1042.124,
    "text": "but maybe one last question on this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1042.124,
    "end": 1046.545,
    "text": "Anything that's surprising\nto you as you look back"
  },
  {
    "start": 1046.545,
    "end": 1048.213,
    "text": "and I'm sure there's lots of stuff,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1048.213,
    "end": 1050.382,
    "text": "surprising new innovations\nthat have come up,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1050.382,
    "end": 1052.801,
    "text": "but anything that folks were\nworking on before that"
  },
  {
    "start": 1052.801,
    "end": 1057.556,
    "text": "has just turned out to be extremely\nsuccessful that was not obvious it"
  },
  {
    "start": 1057.556,
    "end": 1061.977,
    "text": "was going to be super successful or\ndon't any way you want to take that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1061.977,
    "end": 1064.938,
    "text": "- I take a step back and if\nyou look at it statistically,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1064.938,
    "end": 1068.65,
    "text": "it is surprising that something"
  },
  {
    "start": 1068.65,
    "end": 1070.819,
    "text": "has done this exponential takeoff."
  },
  {
    "start": 1070.819,
    "end": 1071.445,
    "text": "- Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1071.445,
    "end": 1075.783,
    "text": "- Right? It's not like you have hundreds of\nthese kinds of things where different"
  },
  {
    "start": 1075.783,
    "end": 1080.829,
    "text": "scientific or technical domains\nare in this exponential takeoff stage."
  },
  {
    "start": 1080.829,
    "end": 1088.045,
    "text": "So, there's a little bit of an\nelement of I feel lucky that we are living"
  },
  {
    "start": 1088.045,
    "end": 1091.381,
    "text": "in this age and all the knowledge"
  },
  {
    "start": 1091.381,
    "end": 1093.467,
    "text": "buildup has happened\nup until this point."
  },
  {
    "start": 1093.467,
    "end": 1097.346,
    "text": "All the technological progress in\nterms of chips and internet and data"
  },
  {
    "start": 1097.346,
    "end": 1103.352,
    "text": "has happened up until this point that\nwe are the ones living through this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1103.352,
    "end": 1105.771,
    "text": "I quite enjoy that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1105.771,
    "end": 1108.565,
    "text": "But also at the same time,\nlike of course,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1108.565,
    "end": 1110.484,
    "text": "it's intense and it's competitive."
  },
  {
    "start": 1110.484,
    "end": 1111.777,
    "text": "- Yeah.\n- I feel lucky."
  },
  {
    "start": 1111.777,
    "end": 1115.447,
    "text": "I feel surprised that a lot of\nthe things that, twenty years ago,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1115.447,
    "end": 1119.952,
    "text": "where we were exploring\nas students are now actually"
  },
  {
    "start": 1119.952,
    "end": 1122.496,
    "text": "some of the biggest practical\nimplications in the world."
  },
  {
    "start": 1122.496,
    "end": 1124.832,
    "text": "And I'm pretty sure a\nlot of people who were"
  },
  {
    "start": 1124.832,
    "end": 1127.084,
    "text": "students at the time\nare feeling the same way."
  },
  {
    "start": 1127.084,
    "end": 1132.047,
    "text": "- Yeah. Somebody just describes\nyou as somebody who loves the journey."
  },
  {
    "start": 1132.047,
    "end": 1134.216,
    "text": "A, is that actually true?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1134.216,
    "end": 1138.971,
    "text": "And B, what that means in the\ncontext of what we're doing as Google DeepMind,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1138.971,
    "end": 1142.683,
    "text": "because I think it's\nactually an important framing"
  },
  {
    "start": 1142.683,
    "end": 1147.146,
    "text": "to capture your headspace and\nyour belief about what we're doing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1147.146,
    "end": 1150.274,
    "text": "- I guess you have to like the journey\nto be able to achieve something."
  },
  {
    "start": 1150.274,
    "end": 1151.817,
    "text": "So yes, I like the journey."
  },
  {
    "start": 1151.817,
    "end": 1155.237,
    "text": "As I said, I think progress,\nespecially in technology,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1155.237,
    "end": 1159.408,
    "text": "in my experience sometimes\nhappen through these stacked sigmoids"
  },
  {
    "start": 1159.408,
    "end": 1162.786,
    "text": "where something happens,\nsomething gets unlocked, and then you have"
  },
  {
    "start": 1162.786,
    "end": 1167.583,
    "text": "big progress, and then you put a lot of\nincremental stages on top which actually"
  },
  {
    "start": 1167.583,
    "end": 1169.459,
    "text": "builds a lot of your understanding,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1169.459,
    "end": 1172.421,
    "text": "which leads to\nanother discovery, and then"
  },
  {
    "start": 1172.421,
    "end": 1175.299,
    "text": "a little bit more of those,\nand then more understanding,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1175.299,
    "end": 1177.134,
    "text": "and then more discovery."
  },
  {
    "start": 1177.134,
    "end": 1181.471,
    "text": "I think about that process a lot\nabout what leads to progress,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1181.471,
    "end": 1185.726,
    "text": "what leads to these\njumps and how to achieve that"
  },
  {
    "start": 1185.726,
    "end": 1187.895,
    "text": "in the context of any of\nthe projects that we do."
  },
  {
    "start": 1187.895,
    "end": 1192.149,
    "text": "Because as much as I always like talking about,\nwe are building AGI,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1192.149,
    "end": 1196.278,
    "text": "we used to research AGI,\nwe used to write papers about AI,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1196.278,
    "end": 1198.78,
    "text": "we used to write\npapers about intelligence."
  },
  {
    "start": 1198.78,
    "end": 1201.825,
    "text": "And we did that,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1201.825,
    "end": 1203.744,
    "text": "it was pure idea to pure science."
  },
  {
    "start": 1203.744,
    "end": 1207.039,
    "text": "Now, we are living in the world\nthat we are actually building AGI"
  },
  {
    "start": 1207.039,
    "end": 1209.041,
    "text": "because people are using it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1209.041,
    "end": 1210.667,
    "text": "So you have to build it,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1210.667,
    "end": 1213.045,
    "text": "you have to do it\nwith that responsibility."
  },
  {
    "start": 1213.045,
    "end": 1215.214,
    "text": "- Yeah.\n- Right? With that seriousness."
  },
  {
    "start": 1215.214,
    "end": 1219.343,
    "text": "But at the same time,\nyou cannot let go of the fact that"
  },
  {
    "start": 1219.343,
    "end": 1221.887,
    "text": "it is still research and\ninnovation that fuels all this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1221.887,
    "end": 1225.891,
    "text": "That funnel is the critical thing,\nis the biggest differentiator."
  },
  {
    "start": 1225.891,
    "end": 1227.851,
    "text": "So I always talk a lot,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1227.851,
    "end": 1231.98,
    "text": "think a lot about\nwhat makes it successful."
  },
  {
    "start": 1231.98,
    "end": 1235.442,
    "text": "What are the elements that\nwill make it successful for us"
  },
  {
    "start": 1235.442,
    "end": 1239.196,
    "text": "in the next step and the next step\nafter that and the next step after that?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1239.196,
    "end": 1243.033,
    "text": "And that's why I think\nthat journey is very important,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1243.033,
    "end": 1244.243,
    "text": "but the goal and the mission,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1244.243,
    "end": 1246.87,
    "text": "that north star is\nextremely important, right?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1246.87,
    "end": 1249.206,
    "text": "Like, journey only matters,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1249.206,
    "end": 1251.959,
    "text": "you know that you are going\nsomewhere good and valuable."
  },
  {
    "start": 1251.959,
    "end": 1256.338,
    "text": "And I feel very strongly and the\nwhole team here feels very strongly"
  },
  {
    "start": 1256.338,
    "end": 1260.509,
    "text": "that building AGI and bringing\nthat positive impact to the world,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1260.509,
    "end": 1265.013,
    "text": "to our users, to the world,\nI think is the best thing that we can do."
  },
  {
    "start": 1265.013,
    "end": 1267.808,
    "text": "- Yeah, And you made this comment,\nI don't know if this was yesterday,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1267.808,
    "end": 1271.27,
    "text": "but there's something about\ndoing it specifically at Google,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1271.27,
    "end": 1274.523,
    "text": "I think is like a really interesting way."
  },
  {
    "start": 1274.523,
    "end": 1276.441,
    "text": "The mission is obviously important,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1276.441,
    "end": 1279.194,
    "text": "but in context of Google\nand all these products we have"
  },
  {
    "start": 1279.194,
    "end": 1284.408,
    "text": "and the broader work that's happening\nis such a unique way of doing this."
  },
  {
    "start": 1284.408,
    "end": 1286.326,
    "text": "- I think it's the right place."
  },
  {
    "start": 1286.326,
    "end": 1289.788,
    "text": "We talked about Google\nhaving the DNA of having,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1289.788,
    "end": 1294.251,
    "text": "doing these technological investments,\nbut the other part is Google"
  },
  {
    "start": 1294.251,
    "end": 1299.423,
    "text": "has very large number of\nmulti-billion people products."
  },
  {
    "start": 1299.423,
    "end": 1302.926,
    "text": "This is a company that\nreally identifies itself by"
  },
  {
    "start": 1302.926,
    "end": 1306.43,
    "text": "providing good services\nand good value for its users."
  },
  {
    "start": 1306.43,
    "end": 1310.058,
    "text": "Yeah. And understands that,\nand users like using"
  },
  {
    "start": 1310.058,
    "end": 1313.061,
    "text": "our products,\nand that is really valuable."
  },
  {
    "start": 1313.061,
    "end": 1313.854,
    "text": "And as I said,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1313.854,
    "end": 1317.858,
    "text": "I see that as a critical\nelement of building AGI."
  },
  {
    "start": 1317.858,
    "end": 1321.903,
    "text": "The more we can put Gemini in a place\nwhere we understand and learn"
  },
  {
    "start": 1321.903,
    "end": 1326.45,
    "text": "and get feedback from that interaction,\nthe better we will be."
  },
  {
    "start": 1326.45,
    "end": 1330.078,
    "text": "And also, being in an organization"
  },
  {
    "start": 1330.078,
    "end": 1335.751,
    "text": "where bringing value to the\nuser is the utmost important thing."
  },
  {
    "start": 1335.751,
    "end": 1339.296,
    "text": "That's why I think it\nmakes it the right place."
  },
  {
    "start": 1339.296,
    "end": 1342.716,
    "text": "- Yeah. In the context of\nus being very user-centric,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1342.716,
    "end": 1346.219,
    "text": "lots of users asking,\nwhere's Gemini 3.5 Pro?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1346.219,
    "end": 1351.141,
    "text": "So I'm curious if you can give us\na quick spiel on where the model is."
  },
  {
    "start": 1351.141,
    "end": 1354.978,
    "text": "As much as we're willing to say."
  },
  {
    "start": 1354.978,
    "end": 1355.771,
    "text": "- Look, as I said,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1355.771,
    "end": 1358.273,
    "text": "there are parallel tracks.\nIn our model family,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1358.273,
    "end": 1361.193,
    "text": "we always have the Pro,\nthe Flash, and the Flash-Lite."
  },
  {
    "start": 1361.193,
    "end": 1362.069,
    "text": "But at the same time,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1362.069,
    "end": 1365.697,
    "text": "we are seeing really fast\nprogress with our Flash models."
  },
  {
    "start": 1365.697,
    "end": 1369.785,
    "text": "We are working on 3.5 Pro at the same\ntime because it's one of those parallel tracks,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1369.785,
    "end": 1374.373,
    "text": "because research happens\nin multiple scales at multiple times."
  },
  {
    "start": 1374.373,
    "end": 1378.502,
    "text": "Right? But also in terms of bringing\nthe best thing forward for the users,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1378.502,
    "end": 1382.255,
    "text": "we are seeing really good progress with Flash,\nwe can iterate really fast."
  },
  {
    "start": 1382.255,
    "end": 1385.008,
    "text": "And I can see that like"
  },
  {
    "start": 1385.008,
    "end": 1388.387,
    "text": "we talked about from 3.5 to 3.6 to 3.7,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1388.387,
    "end": 1390.889,
    "text": "we have a Flash model that\nis getting better and better"
  },
  {
    "start": 1390.889,
    "end": 1394.351,
    "text": "and more and more competitive,\ngetting closer to that frontier."
  },
  {
    "start": 1394.351,
    "end": 1396.186,
    "text": "- Yeah.\n- So, that is very exciting"
  },
  {
    "start": 1396.186,
    "end": 1398.688,
    "text": "for all the researchers internally as well."
  },
  {
    "start": 1398.688,
    "end": 1402.275,
    "text": "So, we are just using that\nas our progress path right now."
  },
  {
    "start": 1402.275,
    "end": 1406.446,
    "text": "And 3.5 Pro, it's still like,\nwe are still working on it."
  },
  {
    "start": 1406.446,
    "end": 1409.783,
    "text": "But we are working on\nGemini 4 as well at the same time."
  },
  {
    "start": 1409.783,
    "end": 1411.076,
    "text": "And"
  },
  {
    "start": 1411.076,
    "end": 1413.745,
    "text": "there's a lot of exciting\nprogress happening there too."
  },
  {
    "start": 1413.745,
    "end": 1414.788,
    "text": "- I love it. I'm excited."
  },
  {
    "start": 1414.788,
    "end": 1416.248,
    "text": "Another one that was top of mind,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1416.248,
    "end": 1419.292,
    "text": "Gemini 3 felt like a huge moment for us."
  },
  {
    "start": 1419.292,
    "end": 1420.71,
    "text": "We were at the frontier."
  },
  {
    "start": 1420.71,
    "end": 1424.089,
    "text": "And then I think interestingly,\nit was almost like the frontier"
  },
  {
    "start": 1424.089,
    "end": 1428.677,
    "text": "shifted and where there was a\nlot of new emergent capabilities"
  },
  {
    "start": 1428.677,
    "end": 1430.429,
    "text": "and all that stuff\nhappened to be in"
  },
  {
    "start": 1430.429,
    "end": 1431.721,
    "text": "agentic coding and all these other things."
  },
  {
    "start": 1431.721,
    "end": 1434.516,
    "text": "And I think we were just\nstarting to rev the engine"
  },
  {
    "start": 1434.516,
    "end": 1437.727,
    "text": "and we were at the frontier\nin that moment and then"
  },
  {
    "start": 1437.727,
    "end": 1440.939,
    "text": "the landscape shifted and\nhow you think about that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1440.939,
    "end": 1444.776,
    "text": "- I think there are two\nthings that we need to keep in mind."
  },
  {
    "start": 1444.776,
    "end": 1448.572,
    "text": "One is by definition in a\nvery competitive environment,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1448.572,
    "end": 1450.657,
    "text": "the frontier will always shift."
  },
  {
    "start": 1450.657,
    "end": 1453.118,
    "text": "There will be ebbs and\nflows of different things."
  },
  {
    "start": 1453.118,
    "end": 1457.873,
    "text": "And the cadence and the frequency of"
  },
  {
    "start": 1457.873,
    "end": 1461.501,
    "text": "which lab is producing their most\ncapable model is going to change."
  },
  {
    "start": 1461.501,
    "end": 1462.836,
    "text": "That's number one."
  },
  {
    "start": 1462.836,
    "end": 1464.629,
    "text": "But number two is a fair point."
  },
  {
    "start": 1464.629,
    "end": 1467.09,
    "text": "And we talked about\nthat in the context of 3.5."
  },
  {
    "start": 1467.09,
    "end": 1471.97,
    "text": "I think we learned a lot about\nagentic actions and agentic workflows"
  },
  {
    "start": 1471.97,
    "end": 1475.849,
    "text": "and being able to bring that to life,\nin a model."
  },
  {
    "start": 1475.849,
    "end": 1478.643,
    "text": "That's the process that we went\nthrough where I'm feeling right now,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1478.643,
    "end": 1483.773,
    "text": "I'm feeling very comfortable and\ngood right now where we are and our"
  },
  {
    "start": 1483.773,
    "end": 1489.07,
    "text": "capability of understanding what users\nneed when they are working with an agent"
  },
  {
    "start": 1489.07,
    "end": 1493.783,
    "text": "that is partnering with them\non any agentic task and workflow."
  },
  {
    "start": 1493.783,
    "end": 1496.745,
    "text": "But we went through that\nprocess of building that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1496.745,
    "end": 1500.707,
    "text": "- I love that. I'll ask you one more,\nwhich is a little bit"
  },
  {
    "start": 1500.707,
    "end": 1504.252,
    "text": "hypothetical but if you\ncould wave your magic wand and get"
  },
  {
    "start": 1504.252,
    "end": 1507.756,
    "text": "the models to do anything and not\nneed to spend a lot of time and energy,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1507.756,
    "end": 1510.592,
    "text": "do you have anything on like the\ntop of that list that you would want"
  },
  {
    "start": 1510.592,
    "end": 1515.055,
    "text": "like a capability\nbetter behavior on something?"
  },
  {
    "start": 1515.055,
    "end": 1517.224,
    "text": "It can be small or big."
  },
  {
    "start": 1517.224,
    "end": 1523.355,
    "text": "- I don't know. I if I had a magic wand\nI would just make them more intelligent."
  },
  {
    "start": 1523.355,
    "end": 1524.94,
    "text": "As the models get more intelligent,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1524.94,
    "end": 1528.527,
    "text": "they do everything better,\neverything more intuitively."
  },
  {
    "start": 1528.527,
    "end": 1531.488,
    "text": "And I think that will be excellent."
  },
  {
    "start": 1531.488,
    "end": 1532.447,
    "text": "- Yeah, I love that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1532.447,
    "end": 1537.494,
    "text": "I sat down with Sergey at I/O,\nI think 2025 or something like that."
  },
  {
    "start": 1537.494,
    "end": 1538.787,
    "text": "I made this comment to him."
  },
  {
    "start": 1538.787,
    "end": 1540.997,
    "text": "This was after you and I\nwere sitting next to each"
  },
  {
    "start": 1540.997,
    "end": 1543.416,
    "text": "other listening to him\nand Demis do their talk."
  },
  {
    "start": 1543.416,
    "end": 1547.379,
    "text": "And I made the comment to Sergey\nthat I/O and just like some of these"
  },
  {
    "start": 1547.379,
    "end": 1550.966,
    "text": "moments of bringing people together,\nmakes me feel the warmth of humanity."
  },
  {
    "start": 1550.966,
    "end": 1552.759,
    "text": "And I was saying that in context of"
  },
  {
    "start": 1552.759,
    "end": 1555.136,
    "text": "some of the conversations\nthat we were having."
  },
  {
    "start": 1555.136,
    "end": 1558.682,
    "text": "And so, I feel like this,\nit's just exciting to see,"
  },
  {
    "start": 1558.682,
    "end": 1561.977,
    "text": "or I'm excited to see you\ntake this leadership role"
  },
  {
    "start": 1561.977,
    "end": 1564.229,
    "text": "because I feel that\nwarmth of humanity"
  },
  {
    "start": 1564.229,
    "end": 1566.69,
    "text": "from you at the same time that I feel"
  },
  {
    "start": 1566.69,
    "end": 1569.025,
    "text": "the progress of like your\nfocus on the frontier."
  },
  {
    "start": 1569.025,
    "end": 1573.113,
    "text": "And so on a personal level,\nI'm excited and I feel like"
  },
  {
    "start": 1573.113,
    "end": 1575.532,
    "text": "we've got the things\ngoing in the right direction."
  },
  {
    "start": 1575.532,
    "end": 1579.16,
    "text": "I feel like you're well\npositioned to help us push. So..."
  },
  {
    "start": 1579.16,
    "end": 1580.412,
    "text": "- Thank you very much."
  },
  {
    "start": 1580.412,
    "end": 1582.205,
    "text": "- Yeah."
  },
  {
    "start": 1582.205,
    "end": 1584.291,
    "text": "No fake, no free praise."
  },
  {
    "start": 1584.291,
    "end": 1586.251,
    "text": "I feel like you earn it.\nIt's a lot of fun."
  },
  {
    "start": 1586.251,
    "end": 1588.378,
    "text": "Koray, this was an awesome conversation."
  },
  {
    "start": 1588.378,
    "end": 1591.089,
    "text": "Thank you for sitting down and\nchatting about all this stuff."
  },
  {
    "start": 1591.089,
    "end": 1591.881,
    "text": "I'm excited.\nHopefully we'll have"
  },
  {
    "start": 1591.881,
    "end": 1594.759,
    "text": "more to talk about soon."
  },
  {
    "start": 1594.759,
    "end": 1598.305,
    "text": "And thank you everyone for tuning\nin to this episode of Release Notes."
  },
  {
    "start": 1598.305,
    "end": 1599.306,
    "text": "We'll see you in the next one."
  }
]